Road tyres - the easy and the hard to remove and fit

brownian

This is a sort of 'derivative' thread, as the information I hope it will gather can actually be found by searching various others (road tubeless, road tyres, etc.) But a half dozen messages on this topic would have saved me a fair amount of time, and could be useful for others who want to take this into account when buying new tyres..
Having sat at the side of the road last week for some time, wrestling...

Anyway, if we give a tyre that is really difficult to remove or fit 10 points, and a tyre that can be fitted relatively easily without tyre levers by the average Joe 1 point....here are some suggested values

Continental GP 5000 25mm and 28mm: 8 points (even getting a lever under the bead...phew)
Continental GP 4000 S II 25mm and 28mm: 6 points
Schwalbe One "Tubeless Easy" 25mm: 3.5 points
Pirell P Zero Velo 25mm: 1.5 points (like butter compared to Contis).

Thoughts?

Mefistofelino

Unfortunately not that straightforward. Rims have a major impact on the ease of fitting. For example, your "butter-like" P Zeros are an absolute nightmare on Ambrosio alloy rims. Plus the tubeless versions of some tyres are completely different beasts to the tubed version.

Practice makes a huge difference. At the risk of tempting the puncture fairy, we seem to puncture a lot less these days, which means you might only remove tyres to replace them 1-2 times a year.

Wishbone Ash

A couple of points:

1. Tyres which may be very difficult to fit/remove when new often get easier after some time on the rim.

2. It can depend on the rim.

3. It can vary with temperature - any tyre is difficult to remove/fit when the tyre is ice cold and you have frozen fingers..

Panaracer Ribmos are a curse to deal with IMO.

brownian

Agree with all of the above responses. I'm not suggesting that any tyre is really easy for everone, or really hard for anyone. But I do think (based on just my own experience) that some tyres are reliably harder than others to fit/remove, for any given level of expertise. I imagine this is largely a function of bead type, bead length, slipperiness of the rubber compound. That last variable may differ between rim materials, as Mefistofelino point out. FWIW my comments apply to Bikebeat carbon rims and to whatever alloy is on Hunt Aeros (both in the rim-brake models).

Yes, time on the rim may loosen out tyres. The degree of loosening may vary from tyre to tyre, so to rate a tyre '8 when new, 6 after 3 months' would be reasonable.

And yes, colder rubber stretches less. If you have a radiator at the side of the road, this can help 8-). Failing that, I'd much prefer to be changing P Zeros than GP5Ks on a cold and wet afternoon on the Sally Gap.

Wishbone Ash

brownian wrote: »

.... on a cold and wet afternoon on the Sally Gap.

....or on a cold and wet night holding a light between your knees!

brownian

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

....or on a cold and wet night holding a light between your knees!

I'm happy that this did not even cross my mind as I crossed the East link on Wednesday night in the black dark. Surely the puncture fairy stays home at night, and lets the tooth fairy take the broomstick...

The Noble Nudge

Conti hardshell gators....defo 11...
Conti gators...9

smacl

Mostly using Schwalbe here

Schwalbe Marathon plus 11
Schwalbe Ice Spiker 11
Schwalbe Durano Plus 6
Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 6
Schwalbe CS Comp 5
Schwalbe G-One All round 7

As others have said, first fitting is always the worst, once they've been on the rims for a while much easier. Also practice, if I haven't changed a tyre in ages it always seems more painful, do a few of them and they seem to roll on and ff the rims.

gaffmaster

It would be great if there was a 'fit coeffecient' or similar that all tyres had to be tested in a range of rims both new and after 1000kms/3 months. The ease of fitting is a huge factor in deciding which tyre I buy.

The P-Zeros are the easiest I've ever fitted. And I've bought them again over GP5000's for that reason. My thinking is, I'll barely notice the difference in rolling resistance or grip (they're very close anyway), but I'll REALLY notice the blood pouring from my thumbs at the side of a cold November road.

Wishbone Ash

gaffmaster wrote: »

... The ease of fitting is a huge factor in deciding which tyre I buy....

Ease of fitting usually means easy to puncture. In my experience, tyres that are very difficult to fit, don't require removing. I'd never buy a tyre based on ease of fitting.

The Schwalbe Marathon Plus cited above by smacl are an example. You need cable ties to fit them when new but they are practically puncture proof.

brownian

TBH, WA, I amn't sure there is any relationship there. Fitting will largely be a function of the bead, but puncture proof more a function of pretty much all the rest (contact strip, sidewalls). A very soft sidewall or contact strip would perhaps be more prone to punctures, but I don't know that this is the case, and what little net wisdom there is on the Pirellis suggests they are reasonably ok, on the puncture front. Why is SO much online bike information "reviews" which are basically "advertorials"? Maybe because we are slow to pay for good information....

Anyway, given that the small differences in rolling resistance and puncture proofness seem to me to be pretty much negligible (across, say, Conti GP5s, Schwalbe Ones, Pirelli PZeros..."faster tyres"), then ease of puncture repair is absolutely one of the most important variables, IMHO, when buying. But of course for the very expert, or strong-handed, or both, then this goes away. WA, maybe you've got thumbs of steel?

Wishbone Ash

brownian wrote: »

...TWA, maybe you've got thumbs of steel?

It's not related to strength but more do do with the method or 'knack' used.

I have to use a lever to get the tyre off but some lads can remove them using their hands (looking at you 07 Lapierre!)

velo.2010

A tip for fitting/removing tyres is to pinch both sides of the tyre so that it sits down in the well of the rim, if that makes sense. There is more room to play with when mounting the tyre.

Any Bontrager tyre on a Fulcrum wheel was a nightmare back in the day. Nowadays, Conti GP4 Season/4000s on Mavic Aksium/Ksyrium rims with no problems. Just need a quick flick of the tyre lever to mount the last bit of a GP4 Season on the Aksium rim.

smacl

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

You need cable ties to fit them when new but they are practically puncture proof.

Hadn't heard of that trick before, but great idea to get an awkward tyre on that I'll remember in future.

magicbastarder

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The Schwalbe Marathon Plus cited above by smacl are an example. You need cable ties to fit them when new but they are practically puncture proof.

i assume this only applies if you don't forget to keep them pumped to avoid pinch flats.

Wishbone Ash

magicbastarder wrote: »

i assume this only applies if you don't forget to keep them pumped to avoid pinch flats.

I meant when fitting them when they are new. Otherwise they'd drive you insane.

I used to use them for commuting and only removed them to fit another tyre for a change. Never punctured on them. I still have my old pair hanging in the garage - 22,000 puncture free kms on them. It's a pity they are heavy and don't roll so well.

magicbastarder

to clarify - i meant they're puncture proof if kept inflated; that if you didn't keep them at the correct pressure, they're no more puncture proof for pinch flats than a cheapo jobbie.

i guess to extrapolate, that if it was a tyre for someone who's not minded to keep tyres inflated, that they may be a bad choice. that you'll still puncture but then would be absolutely scuppered at the roadside. in those situations, tannus tyres are probably an option.

ednwireland

vittoria rubino pro 25 on zonda easy peasy

vittoria rubino pro 28 on fulcrum 6 disc - difficult

Wishbone Ash

magicbastarder wrote: »

to clarify - i meant they're puncture proof if kept inflated; that if you didn't keep them at the correct pressure, they're no more puncture proof for pinch flats than a cheapo jobbie.

i guess to extrapolate, that if it was a tyre for someone who's not minded to keep tyres inflated, that they may be a bad choice. that you'll still puncture but then would be absolutely scuppered at the roadside. in those situations, tannus tyres are probably an option.

Sorry - I see what you mean. I always check pressure regularly so I don't know but, as they're used on the Dublin Bikes, they must be able to withstand a bit of neglect (unless someone is checking the pressure on those bikes regularly).

sy

https://youtu.be/-XUFVrl0UT4