Army and Navy

JP Liz V1

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Spain used their army to enforce lockdown

No, they didn't. The used the police. The Spanish military did not act against the Spanish population.

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Ireland have been a neutral country for decades and decades though

Put the Army to some use or do away with them altogether. They're just window dressing ffs

Except we aren't. Neutrality isn't something to just claim and that's it. We declared neutrality in world war 2 and have a policy of non intervention in other nations internal conflicts.

Countries adopt a policy of neutrality on a case by case basis and it certainly isn't some magic spell that means we are somehow immune from invasion

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I've been at festivals in Asia where the army help out with security and general crowd control

Apart from UN "peace missions" what the fúck does the Irish army do exactly?

Well considering it's a defence force to protect against invasion, what exactly do you want them to do? Would you like us to be invaded? Do you wake up each morning and think 'damn, another invasion free day. Those soldiers playing cards again'? Cause most people don't actually want to see soldiers shooting each other on the streets.

What does any military do on home soil? Train and prepare for invasion. Oh, except in Asia of course, that bastian of democracy and human rights.

Just what exactly is the Irish need to run down the military and police? I just don't get the need or desire to run someone down like this. To don't see soldiers pointing at shop assistants and slagging them off.

suicide_circus

elperello wrote: »

Well you'd be wrong there for a start.

They are there are there as a back up for the civil power.

They are well trained and each and every one of them has taken an oath to protect the state.

Strange thing in Ireland people feel free to run down our military. You don't tend to see that attitude in other countries.

Probably because they so rarely seen

irbx

Just to add been at covid test Centre in Limerick. The swabbing was been done by army personal. In past have seen them out with flood defence etc.

CIARAN_BOYLE

If the civil authority request aid from the armed forces I would hope that the army would be able to assist.

The Gardai should be asked to do something related to enforcement before they call the army though.

davetherave

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Heard of a woman in Cork who needed a test but had no way to get there. Apparantly the army came and brought her. Not sure if that's happening often or not.

It does at the Aviva testing centre as well. Provide a transport service for those who do not have their own transport or anyone to bring them to the testing centre.

davetherave

Del2005 wrote: »

Our military is a joke as we can't defend ourselves which is the purpose of having a military.

Since the formation of the Defence Forces in 1924 how many times has Ireland been invaded and how many wars have we lost?

amadangomor

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I've been at festivals in Asia where the army help out with security and general crowd control

Apart from UN "peace missions" what the fúck does the Irish army do exactly?

Believe me it's a good thing that that we do not use the army for policing. It is a dangerous precedent.

Oglaigh84

amadangomor wrote: »

Believe me it's a good thing that that we do not use the army for policing. It is a dangerous precedent.

Belgium, france, italy etc etc all have had soldiers deployed on the streets for years, long before covid. What exactly do you think will happen if ours is deployed in a similar fashion?

galway_cowboy

I'm sure the army lads are salivating at the thought of overtime and extra payouts. Nah, we waste enough money on them as is.

Let's have the Gardai continue with civil affairs and have the Tayto commandos stay where they are, "training" or whatever else is supposedly on the agenda.

stephenjmcd

Oglaigh84 wrote: »

Belgium, france, italy etc etc all have had soldiers deployed on the streets for years, long before covid. What exactly do you think will happen if ours is deployed in a similar fashion?

Difference is the examples you've given are deployed on anti terror operations and not general policing, fully kitted out and armed. Theres a bit of a difference.

Garda commissioner previously stated they didn't require assistance and wouldn't go down that route

JacksonHeightsOwn

I wouldnt be at all for our army walking the streets, but it is true, I've been to Belgium and they do be walking around, rifles in hand.

Would it not be more practical to redeploy them to track and trace though?

Unlike other public servants, they follow a hierarchy and in layman's terms, have to do what their told. So you wouldn't get your usual public servants moaning about being moved around or some other useless rubbish. They'd just get on with the job.

JP Liz V1

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Should the army and navy be deployed to help the Gardai during this pandemic, to keep law and order, keep to restrictions, break up large gatherings etc., Gardai need to be given more power to stop and punish the rule breakers

Would you be opposed to the army and navy helping?

In the absence of a military threat or breakdown of civil society, the military should only be employed within the borders of its own country to provide logistical, organisational and other support functions. Using the military for the enforcement of civilian laws and regulations should only ever be a last resort

galway_cowboy

chrisbonnie wrote: »

Would it not be more practical to redeploy them to track and trace though?

I would seriously question the... clerical abilities of your average soldier. Let's leave such important stuff to the PS who know how to work systems like that.

I don't know why we're so keen to shoehorn the army somewhere. Keep them at their barracks where they'll cause the least harm.

stephenjmcd

galway_cowboy wrote: »

I would seriously question the... clerical abilities of your average soldier. Let's leave such important stuff to the PS who know how to work systems like that.

I don't know why we're so keen to shoehorn the army somewhere. Keep them at their barracks where they'll cause the least harm.

The army were deployed to contract tracing at the very start and from speaking to someone who works in a contact tracing centre she said the army are by far the best at it.

They're disciplined and once given a job to do absolutely fly through it.

CalamariFritti

So we have a situation now where parts of the population cry out to be controlled by the army. Any orwellians wet dream.

Oglaigh84

CalamariFritti wrote: »

So we have a situation now where parts of the population cry out to be controlled by the army. Any orwellians wet dream.

Having the military support the civil agencies does not equal control by the army, get a grip

Signore Fancy Pants

galway_cowboy wrote: »

I'm sure the army lads are salivating at the thought of overtime and extra payouts. Nah, we waste enough money on them as is.

Let's have the Gardai continue with civil affairs and have the Tayto commandos stay where they are, "training" or whatever else is supposedly on the agenda.

Yeah, they will be rubbing their hands together for an extra €18 for a 24hr shift. Its coming up to Christmas like, more duties please. Its even less for ATCA/ATCP duties.

"Tayto Commandos", I like that one :pac:

galway_cowboy

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

"Tayto Commandos", I like that one :pac:

Our school was near a bank, so back then you had the cash machine escorts. The lads would be tucking into their crisps of choice on patrol, hence our schoolyard nick name.

I see sheep

Of course I'd be opposed, I'd tell them to f-off if they tried to tell me what to do, they're not the police.

Signore Fancy Pants

galway_cowboy wrote: »

Our school was near a bank, so back then you had the cash machine escorts. The lads would be tucking into their crisps of choice on patrol, hence our schoolyard nick name.

Damn straight. Eating kept you awake on cash escorts as you'd be in work about 0330.

Jaysis I dont miss cash escorts at all!

Oglaigh84

I see sheep wrote: »

Of course I'd be opposed, I'd tell them to f-off if they tried to tell me what to do, they're not the police.

Suggest you read this before making such a statement
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1976/act/32/section/15/enacted/en/html

CalamariFritti

Oglaigh84 wrote: »

Having the military support the civil agencies does not equal control by the army, get a grip

Support the agencies is a bit of a euphemism though isn't it? What some here want is checkpoints and breaking up house parties.
You may agree with checkpoints and breaking up house parties and you may feel thats controlling 'the right thing' but surely 'control' is the correct term by anyone's definition.

Kivaro

I would like to see the Army play Navy in a game of football.

circadian

National crisis, need more help and extra hands, someone suggests the army who have helped out with other disasters and crises.

Nope. Suddenly a dangerous precident. How is it a dangerous precident this time and not previous?

I see sheep

Oglaigh84 wrote: »

Suggest you read this before making such a statement
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1976/act/32/section/15/enacted/en/html

Fair enough, that's only if the Emergency Powers Act is in force though yeah?

I still hope it doesn't come to that.

davetherave

I think that people need to realise that there are two seperate games at play. You have "aid the civil power" and you have "aid to the civil authority".

Aid to the Civil Power meaning in practice to assist, when requested, An Garda Síochána, who have primary responsibility for law and order, including the protection of the internal security of the State

Aid to the Civil Authority: To contribute to national resilience through the provision of specified defence aid to the civil authority (ATCA) supports to lead agencies in response to major emergencies, including cyber security emergencies, and in the maintenance of essential services, as set out in MOUs and SLAs agreed by the Department of Defence;

ACTA is taskings like Galway County Council requesting assistance with sandbags/flood relief, or Donegal County Council requesting assistance with gorse firefighting, or the Coast Guard requesting Naval Divers in assistance with locating a missing person. Even things that you might not think of, like delivering and collecting the ballot boxes from the islands at an election, or a patient transfer to a UK hospital.

ATCP is taskings like Central Bank, Airport Security, EOD Callouts, Prisoner Escorts etc.




The function of An Garda Síochána is detailed in section 7 Garda Síochána Act 2005.

The function of the Garda Síochána is to provide policing and security services for the State

Currently the State is not in a period of emergency. The law is not a la carte. It is not the function of state agencies to fill purported gaps in legislation that are perceived to restrict the carrying out of their function. The function of An Garda Síochána is detailed in section 7 Garda Síochána Act 2005. The Defence Forces outside a period of emergency do not have a statutory role in fulfilling this function. Nowhere in section 7 does it allow the Garda Síochána to abdicate its statutory function to another agency.


There is a good read about it here
https://criminaljusticeinireland.wordpress.com/2019/07/04/aid-to-the-civil-power/

Oglaigh84

Oglaigh84 wrote: »

Belgium, france, italy etc etc all have had soldiers deployed on the streets for years, long before covid. What exactly do you think will happen if ours is deployed in a similar fashion?

Gendarme forces are police during peaceful times. They operate as police.

Very interesting idea of adopting a similar style in Ireland and one I would agree with but it's not the same

JacksonHeightsOwn

galway_cowboy wrote: »

I would seriously question the... clerical abilities of your average soldier. Let's leave such important stuff to the PS who know how to work systems like that.

I don't know why we're so keen to shoehorn the army somewhere. Keep them at their barracks where they'll cause the least harm.

absolutely pathetic statement.

I presume you have a view that our armed forces are a throwback to "Dads Army"?

Im not in the army, but have done different jobs in numerous barracks and i can categorically say their organisation skills where second to none. Added to the fact when a senior officer tells someone underneath him to do something, it simply gets done.

Oglaigh84

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Gendarme forces are police during peaceful times. They operate as police.

Very interesting idea of adopting a similar style in Ireland and one I would agree with but it's not the same

Im not talking about gendarme, those countries have literally got soldiers from the army patrolling the street

JP Liz V1

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

No, they didn't. The used the police. The Spanish military did not act against the Spanish population.



Except we aren't. Neutrality isn't something to just claim and that's it. We declared neutrality in world war 2 and have a policy of non intervention in other nations internal conflicts.

Countries adopt a policy of neutrality on a case by case basis and it certainly isn't some magic spell that means we are somehow immune from invasion



Well considering it's a defence force to protect against invasion, what exactly do you want them to do? Would you like us to be invaded? Do you wake up each morning and think 'damn, another invasion free day. Those soldiers playing cards again'? Cause most people don't actually want to see soldiers shooting each other on the streets.

What does any military do on home soil? Train and prepare for invasion. Oh, except in Asia of course, that bastian of democracy and human rights.

Just what exactly is the Irish need to run down the military and police? I just don't get the need or desire to run someone down like this. To don't see soldiers pointing at shop assistants and slagging them off.

A few friends in Spain were stopped by the army there helping the police