Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

speckle

Happydays2020 wrote: »

And they and their families have decided this for good reasons.

Not becessarily true from personal family experience.. we have had DNRs and the opposite... the doctors can overule this. It should be the person if mentally competent who decides what quality of life they find acceptable.

At level 5 restrictions, a teacher can have more students in his or her classroom, than would be allowed to attend their funeral.

mloc123

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Of course it is. Would you tell them and your parents to get a grip?!

I don't even care too much that people won't follow the recommendations... If you wanna break them, fine.. break them.

But the bull**** loops people jump through in their mind to do it is the funny part...

"The recommendations are too complicated"
"I'm not doing any harm to anyone"
"But the GAA can travel.. and I can't"

Happydays2020

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Of course it is. Would you tell them and your parents to get a grip?!

Or call the Guards on them. At least that would sort out the full family having to spend Christmas together.

Goldrickssan

Deleted User wrote: »

At level 5 restrictions, a teacher can have more students in his or her classroom, than would be allowed to attend their funeral.

It's crazy how many people still don't understand that the government have put keeping schools open as a priority.

Boggles

Happydays2020 wrote: »

That is the letter to the Government. This is the Formal advice to go to Level 5 not something on then back of an envelope. They have said 80 to 110, and publicly made reference to the 100 figure.
.

And they since revised it down based on restrictions the government brought in, specifically in the 3 counties where the virus was out of control.

The target is moving as will the predictions be variable.

But we have seen this movie plenty times.

Sure hospitalizations and ICU numbers are fine, then boom, they aren't.

Most recent case is Belgium, we are just going focus our intention more on hospitalizations, easy to do that when things look good.

‘Worse than in March’: Belgian hospital figures double every week

So personally I would be quite careful about writing off predictions or creating my own considering things behind the scenes are at best starting to creek.

Psychiatric Patrick

mloc123 wrote: »

Of course it is violating restrictions. FFS... People will use any excuse to ignore the recommendations... Oh, I didn't understand.

Wind your neck in a bit and no need for profanity.

I said I had lost track of if it all because it makes no sense how a wedding is safer than a house and I never said I was going to be at the house. Or that those going doing understand the restrictions.

So what can I do? Neither my father or siblings will listen to me and if they do I’ll just be accused of wanting to cause trouble.

Is there someone I can report it to? I am assuming there is Garda checkpoints but they won’t know when my sister lies about where she is going or how many will be there.

Psychiatric Patrick

mloc123 wrote: »

I don't even care too much that people won't follow the recommendations... If you wanna break them, fine.. break them.

But the bull**** loops people jump through in their mind to do it is the funny part...

"The recommendations are too complicated"
"I'm not doing any harm to anyone"
"But the GAA can travel.. and I can't"

If you are saying I’m jumping through hoops you are wrong.

I said do not understand the logic of a wedding can have 25 people. Is there not more chance of the virus spreading?

I am the family member asking the questions

mloc123

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

Wind your neck in a bit and no need for profanity.

I said I had lost track of if it all because it makes no sense how a wedding is safer than a house and I never said I was going to be at the house. Or that those going doing understand the restrictions.

You didn't lose track of anything... You are just intentionally trying to muddy the situation. The guidelines for weeks now have been very clear, nobody is to visit another person's house.

If you cannot understand such a simple guideline, you must be very slow.

stephenjmcd

Boggles wrote: »

And they since revised it down based on restrictions the government brought in, specifically in the 3 counties where the virus was out of control.

The target is moving as will the predictions be variable.

But we have seen this movie plenty times.

Sure hospitalizations and ICU numbers are fine, then boom, they aren't.

Most recent case is Belgium, we are just going focus our intention more on hospitalizations, easy to do that when things look good.

‘Worse than in March’: Belgian hospital figures double every week

So personally I would be quite careful about writing off predictions or creating my own considering things behind the scenes are at best starting to creek.

They didn't revise it down from anything I can find, this is what is formal and is in writing.

This is the letter from 15th October recommending level 5 which was later accepted. There has been no letter since.

This is the reality of what they predicted just over a week ago.

https://assets.gov.ie/93272/2c5f1621-4233-47d8-adce-96e9b9b2ffc1.pdf

If you have a link to where its revised it would be most welcome. If not then I think the posters point stands as this was the state of play a week ago when deciding level 5

zinfandel

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

The whole thing has been a bit much for me and I cannot understand these rules.

If 25 people can gather for wedding, why not 40? Or 50?

And why is there restrictions on home visits?

I’m not a “denier” or anything like that I just cannot understand the logic of it.

Six family members (from two households) are going to my parents house today. One works in a hospital and they are travelling more than 5km.

Is that violating the restrictions?

dear god, so many selfish people that just think the restrictions dont apply to them, I have not seen either of my sons since last Christmas, one in UK , one in Ireland as my husband is high risk.

growleaves

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

Wind your neck in a bit and no need for profanity.

I said I had lost track of if it all because it makes no sense how a wedding is safer than a house and I never said I was going to be at the house. Or that those going doing understand the restrictions.

So what can I do? Neither my father or siblings will listen to me and if they do I’ll just be accused of wanting to cause trouble.

Is there someone I can report it to? I am assuming there is Garda checkpoints but they won’t know when my sister lies about where she is going or how many will be there.

You're going report your family to the authorities? That is dire.

speckle

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

You do realise that it performed as a sanitiser? It was the side affects that were the issue.

quoting dept of agriculture from the article.

'Inadequate levels of ethanol render the product ineffective and frequent use of sanitiser with methanol can cause nausea, dermatitis, eye irritation, upper respiratory tract irritation and headaches, it said.'

mloc123

growleaves wrote: »

You're going report your family to the authorities? That is dire.

He's just on a wind up here

s1ippy

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

You do realise that it performed as a sanitiser? It was the side affects that were the issue.

Nope. Methanol is not effective in breaking down the covid virus.

Happydays2020

Boggles wrote: »

And they since revised it down based on restrictions the government brought in, specifically in the 3 counties where the virus was out of control.

The target is moving as will the predictions be variable.

But we have seen this movie plenty times.

Sure hospitalizations and ICU numbers are fine, then boom, they aren't.

Most recent case is Belgium, we are just going focus our intention more on hospitalizations, easy to do that when things look good.

‘Worse than in March’: Belgian hospital figures double every week

So personally I would be quite careful about writing off predictions or creating my own considering things behind the scenes are at best starting to creek.

That is all fine and I take your point about how precarious this is. And reiterate my personal view that a preemptive level 5 circuit breaker is warranted. I may have different views if they decide to extend this.

But the reality is that is the letter that was sent to government recommending level 5 and instantly putting 100k plus people on welfare and many many businesses at risk of permanent failure.

The Government, based on this letter, and indeed after a series of meetings with Prof Nolan followed the advice. ICU capacity has been a key metric.

stephenjmcd

Happydays2020 wrote: »

That is all fine and I take your point about how precarious this is. And reiterate my personal view that a preemptive level 5 circuit breaker is warranted. I may have different views if they decide to extend this.

But the reality is that is the letter that was sent to government recommending level 5 and instantly putting 100k plus people on welfare and many many businesses at risk of permanent failure.

The Government, based on this letter, and indeed after a series of meetings with Prof Nolan followed the advice. ICU capacity has been a key metric.

It was the state of play a week ago and was part of the reasons why level 5 was brought in. That much can't be disputed you are correct.

It doesn't look like materialising at the moment thankfully.

speckle

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

The whole thing has been a bit much for me and I cannot understand these rules.

If 25 people can gather for wedding, why not 40? Or 50?

And why is there restrictions on home visits?

I’m not a “denier” or anything like that I just cannot understand the logic of it.

Six family members (from two households) are going to my parents house today. One works in a hospital and they are travelling more than 5km.

Is that violating the restrictions?

What I find intetesting in your delimma , is yet again another post here, referring to a hospital worker not taking more care.

Thierry12

eigrod wrote: »

Hospitalisations down to 295

https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/hospitals-icu--testing

Level 3 showing who's boss

Good stuff

Psychiatric Patrick

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Or call the Guards on them. At least that would sort out the full family having to spend Christmas together.

So I can call the Guards?

So should I send the Guards to the house? Can I say I am neighbour and there are two cars and a lot of people?

Be a bit late as they’d be in the house.

I don’t know the licence plates of the car of the sibling coming in vein the country. Can I give the names with a call to a station and they pass it on to the checkpoint?

The only person I care about is my mother and with her condition that many people in the house is a terrible idea regardless of the virus. My relationship with my father is in a bad way though and he cannot know it was me.

dublin99

Just saw on the Hong Kong Covid news that of the 6 cases confirmed today (25 October), case number 5296 is an eight year girl who has arrived from Ireland. She was tested on arrival at Hong Kong Airport. She would have taken at least 2 flights to get to Hong Kong.

"The patient arrived in Hong Kong from Ireland, having exhibited no symptoms." (Source: https://wars.vote4.hk/en)

This is of particular concern as she has no symptoms and it is quite possible that there are more school age children who are asymtomatic but spreaders.

I have no idea how to report this case but assuming she attended school in Ireland till she left for Hong Kong, the contact tracing people in Ireland should be alerted and get her details (especially information of her school/class etc) in order to establish any close contacts in her pod.

Please do alert the right people if anyone reads this post knows how to report this case!

speckle

s1ippy wrote: »

Nope. Methanol is not effective in breaking down the covid virus.

Just like from the early days when we discussed why some bleach/cleaners worked and others did not depending on the active ingredient.

Psychiatric Patrick

mloc123 wrote: »

Don't you live with your parents... As your mother's carer... Or is that another one of your personalities?

Yes I do live there and I am the carpet but today my niece was supposed to come (on her own) and I was supposed to be going out for the afternoon - friends house is empty (works aboard) and I was going to watch a movie.

BobbyMalone

mloc123 wrote: »

You didn't lose track of anything... You are just intentionally trying to muddy the situation. The guidelines for weeks now have been very clear, nobody is to visit another person's house.

If you cannot understand such a simple guideline, you must be very slow.

Important to note that there are exceptions to these rules. I think these were introduced along with (or after?) we went to level 5, but were not part of the level 3+ advice issued just before level 5.

Thierry12

dublin99 wrote: »

Just saw on the Hong Kong Covid news that of the 6 cases confirmed today (25 October), case number 5296 is an eight year girl who has arrived from Ireland. She was tested on arrival at Hong Kong Airport. She would have taken at least 2 flights to get to Hong Kong.

"The patient arrived in Hong Kong from Ireland, having exhibited no symptoms." (Source: https://wars.vote4.hk/en)

This is of particular concern as she has no symptoms and it is quite possible that there are more school age children who are asymtomatic but spreaders.

I have no idea how to report this case but assuming she attended school in Ireland till she left for Hong Kong, the contact tracing people in Ireland should be alerted and get her details (especially information of her school/class etc) in order to establish any close contacts in her pod.

Please do alert the right people if anyone reads this post knows how to report this case!

Interesting

I'd love to see Dr Tony prove to us how young kids are immune

They have a nose, mouth, eyes like the rest of us

How can they not get infected?

Do NPHET and Government need schools open cause they need babysitters and don't want look after them or something?

Risteard81

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I read of the UK are bringing in AI cameras in their shops. It will recognise if you have a mask and won't let you in if you don't. Some Asian countries has them as well. We should as well, it avoids confronting these aggressive arseholes in shops.

What about people who are exempt?

speckle

dublin99 wrote: »

Just saw on the Hong Kong Covid news that of the 6 cases confirmed today (25 October), case number 5296 is an eight year girl who has arrived from Ireland. She was tested on arrival at Hong Kong Airport. She would have taken at least 2 flights to get to Hong Kong.

"The patient arrived in Hong Kong from Ireland, having exhibited no symptoms." (Source: https://wars.vote4.hk/en)

This is of particular concern as she has no symptoms and it is quite possible that there are more school age children who are asymtomatic but spreaders.

I have no idea how to report this case but assuming she attended school in Ireland till she left for Hong Kong, the contact tracing people in Ireland should be alerted and get her details (especially information of her school/class etc) in order to establish any close contacts in her pod.

Please do alert the right people if anyone reads this post knows how to report this case!

Cases are reported internationaly. Hong Kong would get on to their equivalent public health contact tracing team here.
And one would hope the family would ring back/email the school.

How long does it take to get to hong kong could the child have picked it up on route?

The HorsesMouth

Goldrickssan wrote: »

RedC poll shows 66% in favour of level 5. Higher than i thought it would be.

That poll says more about the fear mongering that our media have instilled in the population than anything else.

owlbethere

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

The whole thing has been a bit much for me and I cannot understand these rules.

If 25 people can gather for wedding, why not 40? Or 50?

And why is there restrictions on home visits?

I’m not a “denier” or anything like that I just cannot understand the logic of it.

Six family members (from two households) are going to my parents house today. One works in a hospital and they are travelling more than 5km.

Is that violating the restrictions?

The restrictions on the weddings capped at 25, is to ensure there isn't a large outbreak of the virus. The less that attends the better because there is less chance of someone attending who might have the virus. Also in case a member of the party shows up with the virus and the whole group becomes infected.

As for the restrictions on home visits - it's not great or ideal but it is what it is. There's an incubation period of up to 14 days with the virus. It's in case there's a member of a household who has the virus or the visitors have picked up the virus and are infectious and the virus spreads.
I remember going babysitting for a family about 15 or 16 years ago and a member of the family was sick with the flu and in bed. I wasn't in his room but within a few days I came down with the same dose. It is easy for illness to spread within families and households and between households by visiting. The public health authorities are trying to get the virus cases down low.

Happydays2020

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

So I can call the Guards?

So should I send the Guards to the house? Can I say I am neighbour and there are two cars and a lot of people?

Be a bit late as they’d be in the house.

I don’t know the licence plates of the car of the sibling coming in vein the country. Can I give the names with a call to a station and they pass it on to the checkpoint?

The only person I care about is my mother and with her condition that many people in the house is a terrible idea regardless of the virus. My relationship with my father is in a bad way though and he cannot know it was me.

Prob not a good idea to get the Guards involved.

If you have any relationship with your siblings ask them to socially distance if your mother is vulnerable and to keep the house ventilated when there.

The isolation involved in lock downs is really difficult for people. And the best thing they can do is to follow the safest practices while there (short of not going at all).

Boggles

Happydays2020 wrote: »

That is all fine and I take your point about how precarious this is. And reiterate my personal view that a preemptive level 5 circuit breaker is warranted. I may have different views if they decide to extend this.

But the reality is that is the letter that was sent to government recommending level 5 and instantly putting 100k plus people on welfare and many many businesses at risk of permanent failure.

The Government, based on this letter, and indeed after a series of meetings with Prof Nolan followed the advice. ICU capacity has been a key metric.

So you agree with NPHET and the government?

Personally I can't agree with any of the levels because it is complete nonsense.

But I think we are there or there abouts in our collective views.

Psychiatric Patrick

mloc123 wrote: »

You didn't lose track of anything... You are just intentionally trying to muddy the situation. The guidelines for weeks now have been very clear, nobody is to visit another person's house.

If you cannot understand such a simple guideline, you must be very slow.

Are you sniffing something?

What are you talking about ? “muddy the waters”

I said I didn’t understand the new restrictions and I asked if this gathering at my parents house was against the rules.

You acting as though I’m trying to make “excuses” because we “got caught having a party” - that makes zero sense. Why would I mention the gathering here in be first place?

The only slow mind here is yourself.

Happydays2020

Boggles wrote: »

So you agree with NPHET and the government?

Personally I can't agree with any of the levels because it is complete nonsense.

But I think we are there or there abouts in our collective views.

I think the NPHET model is not fit for purpose at this point in time. I also think that they should not over blow things in their letters but use scenarios m at least so they can retain credibility and not make themselves vulnerable in terms of public trust.

And I think (despite the accuracy of modelling not fully supporting the level 5 recommendation at this point in time) that a circuit breaker may well be a good policy. Intuitively it makes sense and we may well benefit from this in slowing the virus over winter.

mloc123

Thierry12 wrote: »

Interesting

I'd love to see Dr Tony prove to us how young kids are immune

They have a nose, mouth, eyes like the rest of us

How can they not get infected?

Do NPHET and Government need schools open cause they need babysitters and don't want look after them or something?

Who said they are immune?

Boggles

Happydays2020 wrote: »

I think the NPHET model is not fit for purpose at this point in time. I also think that they should not over blow things in their letters but use scenarios m at least so they can retain credibility and not make themselves vulnerable in terms of public trust.

And I think (despite the accuracy of modelling not fully supporting the level 5 recommendation at this point in time) that a circuit breaker may well be a good policy. Intuitively it makes sense and we may well benefit from this in slowing the virus over winter.

Maybe we should let the time frame of the prediction run it's course.

Maybe they are spot on but out 7-10 days.

There is green shoots of stabilization, but I wouldn't be calling it mission accomplished. We saw something similar in Dublin.

You can have all the models in the world, but cannot predict peoples behavior which is the main driver of this virus.

Also we are not at Level 5, we are pretending we are.

Psychiatric Patrick

owlbethere wrote: »

The restrictions on the weddings capped at 25, is to ensure there isn't a large outbreak of the virus. The less that attends the better because there is less chance of someone attending who might have the virus. Also in case a member of the party shows up with the virus and the whole group becomes infected.

As for the restrictions on home visits - it's not great or ideal but it is what it is. There's an incubation period of up to 14 days with the virus. It's in case there's a member of a household who has the virus or the visitors have picked up the virus and are infectious and the virus spreads.
I remember going babysitting for a family about 15 or 16 years ago and a member of the family was sick with the flu and in bed. I wasn't in his room but within a few days I came down with the same dose. It is easy for illness to spread within families and households and between households by visiting. The public health authorities are trying to get the virus cases down low.

Shouldn’t weddings be capped at bride and groom?

25 is a risk and how far will those infected at the wedding spread it before it is discovered.

I’m not saying if there can be weddings that people should be allowed run in and out of houses but hat here should be no weddings. It is nonsense that they are allowed.

growleaves

Boggles wrote: »

Also we are not at Level 5, we are pretending we are.

What level are we at, out of interest?

amadangomor

Risteard81 wrote: »

What about people who are exempt?

They should have the cop on to stay away from indoor public places and online shop.

mloc123

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

Are you sniffing something?

What are you talking about ? “muddy the waters”

I said I didn’t understand the new restrictions and I asked if this gathering at my parents house was against the rules.

You acting as though I’m trying to make “excuses” because we “got caught having a party” - that makes zero sense. Why would I mention the gathering here in be first place?

The only slow mind here is yourself.

Sorry. I thought you were acting dumb on here for a wind up.

dublin99

speckle wrote: »

Cases are reported internationaly. Hong Kong would get on to their equivalent public health contact tracing team here.
And one would hope the family would ring back/email the school.

How long does it take to get to hong kong could the child have picked it up on route?

The way the official channels work can be cumbersome and subject to delays. It is a bank holiday in Hong Kong (as well as here) on Monday so probably nothing happens till Tuesday.

Flying from Dublin to Hong Kong takes 15 -20 hours depending on connecting airport and layover time. I would say it is unlikely she caught it en route as the viral load would have been too low to be picked up less than 24 hours after being infected. It would be interesting to see if her family members travelling with her (and probably sitting together on the flights) will test positive in a few days. I believe they are in quarantine and are being monitered.

ACitizenErased

“We’re pretending we’re at level 5”

What??? Tell that to all the closed retail stores, restaurants and pubs.

Boggles

growleaves wrote: »

What level are we at, out of interest?

No idea, they keep changing the document to suit their scattered approach.

Considering the plan fell apart 2 minutes after it was launched, I don't think we are actually following it anymore to be fair.

Make it up as we go along is more apt than "Living with Covid".

eagle eye

manniot2 wrote:

In their head

Very stupid.

manniot2 wrote:

He actually said on the late late that icu capacity and tracing were not important. What was important was community spread. He knows he has the power to shut us down whenever he wants, deflect the blame from the farce of a health service we have

He doesn't have the power to shut us down. As part of NPHET he has the job of making recommendations.

They government decide what happens as they did when they ignored NPHET's advice a couple of weeks ago.

Boggles

ACitizenErased wrote: »

“We’re pretending we’re at level 5”

What??? Tell that to all the closed retail stores, restaurants and pubs.

Emotive nonsense aside, there was a lot more retail supposed to be closed under the original level 5.

It's a fluid document, handy really when it needs to be flushed.

Which is hopefully soon.

zinfandel

zinfandel wrote: »

would it not be better having all the covid patients together and keeping the single rooms for non covid?

To be fair, there isn't that many covid patients in hospital as most cases are mild. It's more an issue with staff than issues of bed space at the moment.

Psychiatric Patrick

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Prob not a good idea to get the Guards involved.

If you have any relationship with your siblings ask them to socially distance if your mother is vulnerable and to keep the house ventilated when there.

The isolation involved in lock downs is really difficult for people. And the best thing they can do is to follow the safest practices while there (short of not going at all).

My relationship with those siblings terrible. They hardly ever visit and know know it is too much for my mother so I don’t understand why they are coming at all. It is like it is a reaction to being told by the government that they cannot.

My father had a less of a clue than I do. He only told me they were coming just before I posted. It was okay during the first lockdown because he was scared. I think he needs another fright.

They will be here five minutes and my mother will be asking when they leaving.

Risteard81

amadangomor wrote: »

They should have the cop on to stay away from indoor public places and online shop.

Why shouldn't they exercise their right to shop? Do you believe that discrimination is virtuous?

And where do these made up "laws" and "regulations" justify your unlawful discriminatory attitude?

Psychiatric Patrick

mloc123 wrote: »

Sorry. I thought you were acting dumb on here for a wind up.

You apparently have difficulty with reading and comprehension so not wise to call other people “dumb”

majcos

Risteard81 wrote: »

What about people who are exempt?

Very very few people are really exempt. The only group that is truly exempt is those who do not understand why they are wearing a mask and would therefore be distressed by it, for example someone with special needs or cognitive impairment. Exemptions include someone who is unconscious or incapacitated and someone who is unable to remove it without help. I believe this in case those groups vomit and then they might aspirate their own vomit or could choke.

HSE website also mentions face mask is not recommended for those who have trouble breathing. I do not understand this one. Masks can definitely be very uncomfortable but masks do not cause a actual drop in oxygen levels. I understand there might be an occasional exception but that could be addressed on an individual basis.

For those with pre-existing trouble breathing to such a degree that they cannot wear a mask for a few minutes and for the other groups mentioned above, surely they should be cocooning as much as possible and not going to shops. There should be very few exemptions.

Masks are to protect others from the wearer so I think the shops might have the right to refuse admission if they themselves felt uncomfortable with a non mask wearer entering the premises.

Stheno

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1320209842859134977?s=19

New Princeton study indicates children are a factor in spreading the virus