Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

polesheep

Strumms wrote: »

A part of the spectrum of tasks performed by especially carers and sometimes nurses in a hospital setting is to enable morale, and be there to provide companionship for their patients. It’s not an extra, it’s actually partly what they are employed to do. It’s in the manual. They often between visiting times would sit down for 20 minutes with say a patient, for some conversation, a game of draughts, board game, chess, help with a crossword , whatever.

Similar is happening here. Having a bit of craic.. It’s nothing unusual, in fact it’s very commonplace in children’s hospital.

What planet are you living on?

Strumms

GT89 wrote: »

Bit of a difference between helping patients with crosswords and making public tik tok videos.

Not in terms of them doing their job there isn’t. 5 minutes out of an 8 hour shift to do something fun, with and for patients. Take it from somebody who knows, there is enough to be pissed off about in our hospitals and health services but that ain’t one.

polesheep

polesheep wrote: »

What planet are you living on?

This is true. Healthcare should be holistic. Patient need to be involved in their care and it's stops patient assuming "the patient role".

AlmightyCushion

normanoffside wrote: »

From My understanding anyone tested positive on arrival into hospital is counted as a Covid admission no matter what reason the are admitted for.

Therefore nearly half of our Covid patients actually caught it in there (as they were not counted as Covid admissions)

But what is this understanding based on? We don't know what constitutes a covid admission as it has not been clarified by any one. It's possible it is something that is recorded at time of admission and is not updated afterwards. The fact is, we don't know. We really need journalists who will ask these questions to get clarification but as someone said above it just doesn't happen.

zinfandel

Funsterdelux wrote: »

ya know M&S are online with pretty accurate sizing as well as many other stores

Strumms

polesheep wrote: »

What planet are you living on?

A planet where between 2016 and 2017 I spent several months in hospital with a rather grim prognosis which has been turned on its head completely.

So I’m on a planet where I found out first hand the role of carers and even before that experience, two friends of mine do that job, one in hospital, another in the community.... what one are you on ?

normanoffside

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

But what is this understanding based on? We don't know what constitutes a covid admission as it has not been clarified by any one. It's possible it is something that is recorded at time of admission and is not updated afterwards. The fact is, we don't know. We really need journalists who will ask these questions to get clarification but as someone said above it just doesn't happen.

Agreed.
But is has been widely reported of patients getting infected in hospital like the Cavan outbreak in the haematology ward and the recent Naas outbreak on the psychiatrist ward.

Funsterdelux

zinfandel wrote: »

ya know M&S are online with pretty accurate sizing as well as many other stores

I would buy my undies in no other place.

froog

Strumms wrote: »

A planet where between 2016 and 2017 I spent several months in hospital with a rather grim prognosis which has been turned on its head completely.

So I’m on a planet where I found out first hand the role of carers and even before that experience, two friends of mine do that job, one in hospital, another in the community.... what one are you on ?

Nurses are not carers. Two very different professions.

polesheep

Strumms wrote: »

A planet where between 2016 and 2017 I spent several months in hospital with a rather grim prognosis which has been turned on its head completely.

So I’m on a planet where I found out first hand the role of carers and even before that experience, two friends of mine do that job, one in hospital, another in the community.... what one are you on ?

You must have been delirious, there isn't a nurse in any hospital in the country that has the time to do as you described. Neither is it part of their job description.

MelbourneMan

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I hope someone asks if I was making sense all week to be concerned about missed tests from contact tracing distorting figures.

Hello. To clarify the answer should they ask you : any distortion is negligible, and below levels that would influence policy advice and decisions.

Goldrickssan

What time are the swabs generally out? I'm dying for a ****

Strumms

froog wrote: »

Nurses are not carers. Two very different professions.

I never said they were in fact. They do work together in close proximity with shared goals for their patients however.

Gruffalux

Funsterdelux wrote: »

I would buy my undies in no other place.

Manly illusions shattered

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

This is true. Healthcare should be holistic. Patient need to be involved in their care and it's stops patient assuming "the patient role".

No, it's not true. The poster seems to be mixing up the hospital staff. Not a difficult thing to do these days they way uniforms are interchangeable.

polesheep

polesheep wrote: »

You must have been delirious, there isn't a nurse in any hospital in the country that has the time to do as you described. Neither is it part of their job description.

I've seen nurses doing many of these things (maybe not doing a crossword with them) but certainly engaging in conversations with patients, allowing patients to vent/ answer queries patients may have about their medical care. It's part of a holistic approach and to help patients make appropriate decisions about their own health care.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1046/j.1466-769X.2002.00107.x

Strumms

polesheep wrote: »

You must have been delirious, there isn't a nurse in any hospital in the country that has the time to do as you described. Neither is it part of their job description.

No, I was fully conscious and together my friend . . No delirium. But it was in the main carers.

stephenjmcd

normanoffside wrote: »

Agreed.
But is has been widely reported of patients getting infected in hospital like the Cavan outbreak in the haematology ward and the recent Naas outbreak on the psychiatrist ward.

Have family members working in hospitals, if someone tests positive when in hospital its a new case and they're counted as a covid admission as they're now being treated for it, regardless of whatever they were in for initially.

If its deemed to be picked up in hospital it'll be notified in HPSC data as acquired in hospital.

Cavan and Naas for example will have been notified as hospital outbreaks and anyone who picked it up in there is now counted in the hospitals covid numbers for the duration of their covid treatment until discharged

Gruffalux

Goldrickssan wrote: »

What time are the swabs generally out? I'm dying for a ****

Have a pre swab ..walk..( to forage nettles. Or scraps of barbed wire.)

thelad95

Goldrickssan wrote: »

What time are the swabs generally out? I'm dying for a ****

Ehm......

Wolf359f

normanoffside wrote: »

There have been a lot of outbreaks inside the hospitals (Cavan and the recent ones in Naas are the two obvious ones).
Lot's of already vulnerable patients got infected by these.

People who went into hospital with other conditions and then tested positive are treated as covid admissions, so almost 50% of the covid patients in Hospital actually contracted it in there.

https://twitter.com/RiochtConor2/status/1320700796498042880

I don't think taking the admissions, subtracting the discharges and then comparing it to the number in hospitals gives the true story.

Last HSPC update giving details on Hospital acquired covid was dated 21/10:
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-1914-dayepidemiologyreports/COVID-19_14_day_epidemiology_report_20201021_Website.pdf

So based on 07/10 - 20/10 (13858 cases) 94 where contracted in a healthcare setting (I'm not sure if that's strictly limited to hospitals, or the hospitals listed on the HSE reports, mental hospitals may not appear in admissions etc...)
During the same time period, there was 302 hospital admissions, of which 94 should be classed as acquired in hospital (31%)
So not quite 50% as posted on twitter.

polesheep

Strumms wrote: »

No, I was fully conscious and together my friend . . No delirium. But it was in the main carers.

I can hear the "beep beep" as you back up.

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

I've seen nurses doing many of these things (maybe not doing a crossword with them) but certainly engaging in conversations with patients, allowing patients to vent/ answer queries patients may have about their medical care. It's part of a holistic approach and to help patients make appropriate decisions about their own health care.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1046/j.1466-769X.2002.00107.x

That is standard practice and has nothing to do with what the poster said. Read their post again.

normanoffside

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Have family members working in hospitals, if someone tests positive when in hospital its a new case and they're counted as a covid admission as they're now being treated for it, regardless of whatever they were in for initially.

If its deemed to be picked up in hospital it'll be notified in HPSC data as acquired in hospital.

Cavan and Naas for example will have been notified as hospital outbreaks and anyone who picked it up in there is now counted in the hospitals covid numbers for the duration of their covid treatment until discharged

Hi, yeah I get all that.
That Guy Conor on Twitter tracks all the covid admissions and discharges and by his figures 45% acquired it in hospital as the admissions minus the discharges in total only add up to 55% of the total in hospital.

He has pointed out on many days for example that there have been say 16 admissions and 15 discharges but the number of patients with Covid in hospital have gone up by 10 or 20.

As previously said, someone needs to be asking these questions at the press conferences to get some clarity.

Strumms

polesheep wrote: »

I can hear the "beep beep" as you back up.

Well, you want to get your ears tested so, or the beeping noises you are hearing might be symptomatic of some other problems of yours that need addressing :eek:

Either way, carers or nurses taking 3 minutes out of a xx hour shift to have a bit of craic with patients and each other is not prohibited ...I had doctors supporting the same football team spend a few mins yapping about the world of football, etc... find something else to get uptight about. It’s a fûckin pandemic !

stephenjmcd

normanoffside wrote: »

Hi, yeah I get all that.
That Guy Conor on Twitter tracks all the covid admissions and discharges and by his figures 45% acquired it in hospital as the admissions minus the discharges in total only add up to 55% of the total in hospital.

He has pointed out on many days for example that there have been say 16 admissions and 15 discharges but the number of patients with Covid in hospital have gone up but 10 or 20.

As previously said, someone needs to be asking these questions at the press conferences to get some clarity.

Yeah someone needs to ask alright to get it clarified.

I'm not sure its quite that high, as another poster pointed out there HPSC data is around 30% in the last report which given outbreaks would sound about right to me, could well have increased though due to Naas

eigrod

https://twitter.com/juneshannon/status/1321082060300296194?s=21

polesheep

Strumms wrote: »

Well, you want to get your ears tested so, or the beeping noises you are hearing might be symptomatic of some other problems of yours that need addressing :eek:

Either way, carers or nurses taking 3 minutes out of a xx hour shift to have a bit of craic with patients and each other... find something else to get uptight about. It’s a fûckin pandemic !

Nice reversal. Well done. Nurses often have a bit of banter with patients as they carry out their duties. It's good for morale. BTW I'm not uptight at all.

caveat emptor

Regards the hospital admission thing. It would be interesting to know how many people in hospital contracted while in hospital (nosocomial) vs those admitted directly with Covid. Infection control isn't working if have of current cases acquired it while there for something unrelated.

I think though we are assuming that everyone who presents at hospital is definitely known to be covid positive or not.

Say for instance somebody goes to A&E with a bad gastro infection, arrhythmia of the heart or chest tightness or a severe fever and is in real difficulty.
Will they not admit them until they know for certain it is covid? No, they'll admit them run tests and then designate covid if positive and the number will increase yet admittance figure doesn't match. I've been admitted to hospital for flu in the past. I had fever the day before, presented with very elevated heart rate, dehydration and general malaise. I was admitted even though they didn't have a clue what it was. I eventually got to see a doctor who said influenza most probably. Got a given a drip etc and started to come back next day.

In that instance I wasn't admitted for influenza yet the following day I'd be in the count for people in hospital with influenza. I was pretty run down at the time and I hadn't a clue why I couldn't retain liquids. Fever was the only flu like symptom.

I'm not sure if this is the case but either way one of two things is true but not both.

• A sizeable number of people in hospital acquired the infection in hospital and infection control is a serious issue.
• The admittance for covid vs those admitted with symptoms to hospital later get diagnosed causing the figures to not match.

I know we've dismissed the "suspected" covid numbers on here but that could explain it. I know people who have remained at home to weather the storm and couldn't get tested even if they wanted to (in march) I agree the question needs answering. Just hope we ask the right question.

US2

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Have family members working in hospitals, if someone tests positive when in hospital its a new case and they're counted as a covid admission as they're now being treated for it, regardless of whatever they were in for initially.

If its deemed to be picked up in hospital it'll be notified in HPSC data as acquired in hospital.

Cavan and Naas for example will have been notified as hospital outbreaks and anyone who picked it up in there is now counted in the hospitals covid numbers for the duration of their covid treatment until discharged

What if they're asymptomatic which they probably are if they're attending hospital appointments.

Funsterdelux

Gruffalux wrote: »

Manly illusions shattered

I never specified the type!;)

WoollyRedHat

khalessi wrote: »

So the Department received a letter in August about the hand sanitiser

https://www.westmeathindependent.ie/2020/10/23/school-hand-sanitiser-concerns-raised-in-local-mans-letter-to-minister-in-august/

I've heard they're going to wash their hands of it.

wirelessdude01

eigrod wrote: »

https://twitter.com/juneshannon/status/1321082060300296194?s=21

Looks like Ronan Glynn has been sidelined even since some form of focus has gone onto schools.

stephenjmcd

US2 wrote: »

What if they're asymptomatic which they probably are if they're attending hospital appointments.

Well if your being admitted your tested, anyone that's going in for a procedure is tested in advance.

stephenjmcd

With regards to the discussion on hospitals and outbreaks.

There should be a new HPSC report today for last week, but for week 42 which was up to 17th October in that week there were 7 notified outbreaks in hospital settings with 27 outbreaks still classified as open. They close after 28 days of no linked cases.

GT89

Strumms wrote: »

Not in terms of them doing their job there isn’t. 5 minutes out of an 8 hour shift to do something fun, with and for patients. Take it from somebody who knows, there is enough to be pissed off about in our hospitals and health services but that ain’t one.

So if it's to boost patient morale why are they posting it publically for the whole internet to see?

ACitizenErased

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Looks like Ronan Glynn has been sidelined even since some form of focus has gone onto schools.

Or he's taking a well-deserved break?

road_high

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Or he's taking a well-deserved break?

Well deserved break from achieving precisely the sum total of nothing- Nphet are amazing ...clap clap

caveat emptor

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Looks like Ronan Glynn has been sidelined even since some form of focus has gone onto schools.

Yeah the new school's doctor is a very safe pair of hands. Never strays off message.

gw80

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Have family members working in hospitals, if someone tests positive when in hospital its a new case and they're counted as a covid admission as they're now being treated for it, regardless of whatever they were in for initially.

If its deemed to be picked up in hospital it'll be notified in HPSC data as acquired in hospital.

Cavan and Naas for example will have been notified as hospital outbreaks and anyone who picked it up in there is now counted in the hospitals covid numbers for the duration of their covid treatment until discharged

So if someone tests positive for covid in hospital but are asymptomatic,are the kept in and treated for it anyway?

TonyMaloney

gw80 wrote: »

So if someone tests positive for covid in hospital but are asymptomatic,are the kept in and treated for it anyway?

They'd need to be isolated anyway.

We have a capacity crisis. It's not due to hospitals being full of asymptomatic people.

stephenjmcd

gw80 wrote: »

So if someone tests positive for covid in hospital but are asymptomatic,are the kept in and treated for it anyway?

Thats up to the doctors to decide.

In general if your asymptomatic you'd be discharged home to isolate for the 10 days but if they feel it best your kept in then your kept in, there's a few factors at play such as did the person come from a nursing home for example, but you'd still be classed as a covid admission while your there, so if your still there when the data is collected for the HSE report then you'll show in the report as an admission.

Could be gone out of the report by 8am the next morning if you've been discharged in the meantime.

stephenjmcd

NI reporting 722 cases and 13 deaths

polesheep

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Looks like Ronan Glynn has been sidelined even since some form of focus has gone onto schools.

I wonder if it has to do with the Greens demanding that more women be involved.

Strumms

GT89 wrote: »

So if it's to boost patient morale why are they posting it publically for the whole internet to see?

Don’t know, you’d need to ask em. Perhaps it’s to give people outside of hospitals an insight into the work they do, to share some more fun aspects of the job ? I’m not of the mind to care. Good luck to em. Must be extremely difficult and stressful working in and being in hospital during covid times... if they want to do something fun, record it, publish it.... fine by me, it’s not North Korea.

Stheno

stephenjmcd wrote: »

NI reporting 722 cases and 13 deaths

Is that their highest amount of deaths in a single day?

AlphaDelta1

stephenjmcd wrote: »

NI reporting 722 cases and 13 deaths

What a mess they have up there.

Non solum non ambulabit

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Thats up to the doctors to decide.

In general if your asymptomatic you'd be discharged home to isolate for the 10 days but if they feel it best your kept in then your kept in, there's a few factors at play such as did the person come from a nursing home for example, but you'd still be classed as a covid admission while your there, so if your still there when the data is collected for the HSE report then you'll show in the report as an admission.

Could be gone out of the report by 8am the next morning if you've been discharged in the meantime.

Based on how mild this disease is in the huge majority of cases i would hope most people who contract it in hospital can be sent home.

A person that has Covid poses a risk to staff and other patients especially if they don't need to be there. We need our resources helping those in need.

ceadaoin.

TonyMaloney wrote: »

They'd need to be isolated anyway.

We have a capacity crisis. It's not due to hospitals being full of asymptomatic people.

Capacity crisis? Didnt Leo just say the other day that there are plenty of beds available? even more than usual for this time of year?

CIARAN_BOYLE

stephenjmcd wrote: »

NI reporting 722 cases and 13 deaths

4318 individuals tested.

16.7% positivity. Compares to 25% positivity yesterday.

I do think we could do with a ni megathread. Feels like ni gets lost apart from a few minutes discussion every day.