Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

Rob A. Bank

Widdensushi wrote: »

The last paragraph is Scaremongering, irelands death rate for this year is not that much different than last year that people are being euthenasised, thank you for an otherwise very informative post.

I am not saying that this is what is happening, or has happened, in Ireland... but what could happen if the virus is allowed to grow exponentially to Bergamo proportions.

I hope and pray that this exaggerated scenario will never happen in this country.

MelbourneMan

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder how many asymptomatic super-spreaders there have been who infected rings around them, but were never tested?

It depends how one defines a super spreader. But you could use somewhere in the region of 200-300 as a ball park figure. The lack of accurate case number from the spring prevents calculation of a more precise value.

Happydays2020

Fascinating

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

Open windows.....

wadacrack

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Fascinating

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

Open windows.....

Thats a great article. If their was an ad or something like this on TV . He wuld really help business/people the risks and to mitigate the risk of superspreading events

khalessi

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Fascinating

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

Open windows.....

Schools have been teaching with windows open since we went back as this info has been available for a while, but article is a good read. It would help if senior classes in primary wore masks

mcburns07

iamwhoiam wrote: »

This lockdown is going to be tough . We couldn’t even get out for a walk today . Was no point in going for spin within 5kms

No comparison with bright days and sitting in the garden and pottering out for a walk a few times a day .


“ Are we there yet ? “

Not trying to be smart here, but what would you typically do on a wet Sunday in November if there were no limits?

funnydoggy

mcburns07 wrote: »

Not trying to be smart here, but what would you typically do on a wet Sunday in November if there were no limits?

Cinema, pub, go shopping, go to a friend's house etc

iamwhoiam

mcburns07 wrote: »

Not trying to be smart here, but what would you typically do on a wet Sunday in November if there were no limits?

Visit my sister , cinema , go for a swim , have a meal out or a wander in M and Spencers . Pop in to my brother for a chat , or go see a play or a musical
If there wasn’t a 5km limit I would drive out to watch the sea and the waves and have coffee in a cafe .
I can think of loads of things actually

Non solum non ambulabit

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

I am not saying that this is what is happening, or has happened, in Ireland... but what could happen if the virus is allowed to grow exponentially to Bergamo proportions.

I hope and pray that this exaggerated scenario will never happen in this country.

It won't. Don't worry about it.

Rob A. Bank

Unprecedented... the world's most prestigious and respected medical and scientific journals get very political, mainly due to Trump's handling of the pandemic.

The Lancet has become the latest medical and scientific journal to urge Americans to vote for change in next week's presidential election, publishing a scathing editorial that described the US pandemic response under Donald Trump as "disastrous".

Earlier in the month, the New England Journal of Medicine also slammed the US's "astonishing" failure to bring COVID-19 cases and deaths under control, but stopped short of explicitly endorsing Biden in next month's election.

Throughout its 208-year history, The New England Journal of Medicine has remained staunchly nonpartisan. The world’s most prestigious medical journal has never supported or condemned a political candidate... Until now.

Earlier this month the journal Nature, one of the world's most prestigious scientific publications, said it was backing Biden for US president.

Last month, for the first time in its 175-year history, US magazine Scientific American endorsed a candidate, saying it was opting for Biden.

"We do not do this lightly," the editors wrote in a sulphuric anti-Trump editorial published online for the magazine's October issue.

"The evidence and the science show that Donald Trump has badly damaged the US and its people—because he rejects evidence and science," they wrote.

The linked articles are a good read and worth following.

cj maxx

khalessi wrote: »

Schools have been teaching with windows open since we went back as this info has been available for a while, but article is a good read. It would help if senior classes in primary wore masks

My 7+8 yos have to wear masks from tomorrow in school

prunudo

cj maxx wrote: »

My 7+8 yos have to wear masks from tomorrow in school

Is that coming from the department, the school or individual teachers taking it upon themselves?

virginmediapls

mcburns07 wrote: »

Not trying to be smart here, but what would you typically do on a wet Sunday in November if there were no limits?

I'd have about 3 people knee-deep inside me in a bush just outside town. Tony Holohan has single-handedly killed the dogging scene in Ireland, and it will be the sword the man dies on.

He doesn't know the power the dogging scene yields in Ireland. He'll soon find out.

WoollyRedHat

Totally Under Control is a stunning account of how the USA government, betrayed its own states, its medical personnel and people. Cuomo on Ventilators "It was like bidding on eBay.. states are outbidding each other and then all of a sudden you've got FEMA bidding and driving up the price"

Psychedelic Hedgehog

virginmediapls wrote: »

I'd have about 3 people knee-deep inside me in a bush just outside town. Tony Holohan has single-handedly killed the dogging scene in Ireland, and it will be the sword the man dies on.

He doesn't know the power the dogging scene yields in Ireland. He'll soon find out.

(drops monocle)

Eod100

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Fascinating

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

Open windows.....

Think ventilation really needs to be highlighted more. Will be tricky this time of year but would prefer to be cold than get covid. Would look like a lagging jacker with all the layers you'd need to wrap up :pac:

virginmediapls

Psychedelic Hedgehog wrote: »

(drops monocle)

I hope the funny thing about your monocle is that it's located on your hand .

Widdensushi

cj maxx wrote: »

My 7+8 yos have to wear masks from tomorrow in school

More details please, location etc?

biggebruv

Why is public transport reduced to 25% when schools are open ridiculous can’t they operate at f100% during peak hours 6-9 3-5 maybe

Mainly Dublin bus I’m talking about here the dart is not so bad but Dublin bus during school runs are always a nightmare and the drivers don’t care about the people limit

Strumms

Ventilation... if a business say in an office with first starters at 9.00am.. heating is set via timer to come on at 7.00 am, get the place stifling ....First employee into work be it manager or whoever is responsible for opening windows in offices...should ensure a healthy and comfortable temperature can be maintained...

Strumms

biggebruv wrote: »

Why is public transport reduced to 25% when schools are open ridiculous can’t they operate at f100% during peak hours 6-9 3-5 maybe

Mainly Dublin bus I’m talking about here the dart is not so bad but Dublin bus during school runs are always a nightmare and the drivers don’t care about the people limit

Why don’t the drivers care about the people limit ? Surely pre covid they have a duty of care to ensure that there are not too many people on the bus so that everyone can have a safe and reasonably comfortable journey ?

With covid it’s would just be a case of allowing fewer people on ?

Solli

foxyladyxx wrote: »

I spent 10 days in ICU back in July. The nurses there were telling me that standards in Ireland are way above that in other countries. Foreign nurses have to retrain before they can work in Irish Hospitals. The level of care I received was above and beyond what I would have imagined possible. If I had not been admitted to ICU I would have died. I needed specialist care. Ventilator, dialysis and I had a tube in my neck . .I am not sure what that was for. Meeting my consultant next week.

I’m sorry to hear that foxyladyxx. I hope you are recovering well. Remember you were on this forum at the start of all this. How are you now?

biggebruv

Strumms wrote: »

Why don’t the drivers care about the people limit ? Surely pre covid they have a duty of care to ensure that there are not too many people on the bus so that everyone can have a safe and reasonably comfortable journey ?

With covid it’s would just be a case of allowing fewer people on ?

Hassle from customers mainly I think if they pull up and there at limit the ones not let on at stop start giving out I’m guessing

Guess we will see tomorrow how it will go but I sure as **** won’t be getting on a bus at 4pm peak school time I’m walking home LOL

Strumms

biggebruv wrote: »

Hassle from customers mainly I think if they pull up and there at limit the ones not let on at stop start giving out I’m guessing

Guess we will see tomorrow how it will go but I sure as **** won’t be getting on a bus at 4pm peak school time I’m walking home LOL

Many of us had jobs where we had hassle and from time to time or needed to do certain aspects of our jobs which we didn’t enjoy. Part of having a job that involves dealing with customers, the public means the good, the bad and the ugly.

From the Dublin Bus Website..

“Applicants should have excellent interpersonal skills and fluency in English”

“We are recruiting Professional Bus Drivers to join us in delivering a quality customer service. We are looking for people who will operate our buses safely and efficiently and who will make every effort to ensure our customers have a positive experience of Dublin Bus.”

Safely I’d interpret by not allowing and facilitating the bus to be overcrowded, covid and non covid times.

GT89

Strumms wrote: »

Many of us had jobs where we had hassle and from time to time or needed to do certain aspects of our jobs which we didn’t enjoy. Part of having a job that involves dealing with customers, the public means the good, the bad and the ugly.

From the Dublin Bus Website..

“Applicants should have excellent interpersonal skills and fluency in English”

“We are recruiting Professional Bus Drivers to join us in delivering a quality customer service. We are looking for people who will operate our buses safely and efficiently and who will make every effort to ensure our customers have a positive experience of Dublin Bus.”

Safely I’d interpret by not allowing and facilitating the bus to be overcrowded, covid and non covid times.

Not many jobs out there where some of the punters will actually spit at you or subject you to severe verbal abuse if you don't give them their way. That is what Dublin Bus drivers are dealing with. C+T is full of bus drivers describing the abuse they are subjected to whilst carrying out their work.

Personal safety generally comes first if you can't look after your own safety how are you meant to look after the safety of others. There is a good reason why bus drivers in Dublin were behind perspex long before cashiers in Dunnes Stores were.

igCorcaigh

If anyone needs a late Halloween horror story, read the recent Irish Times article on nipah virus. If that thing went pandemic, god help us all!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/science/the-real-contagion-virus-is-out-there-and-it-s-causing-virologists-to-worry-1.4387162%3fmode=amp

biggebruv

Strumms wrote: »

Many of us had jobs where we had hassle and from time to time or needed to do certain aspects of our jobs which we didn’t enjoy. Part of having a job that involves dealing with customers, the public means the good, the bad and the ugly.

From the Dublin Bus Website..

“Applicants should have excellent interpersonal skills and fluency in English”

“We are recruiting Professional Bus Drivers to join us in delivering a quality customer service. We are looking for people who will operate our buses safely and efficiently and who will make every effort to ensure our customers have a positive experience of Dublin Bus.”

Safely I’d interpret by not allowing and facilitating the bus to be overcrowded, covid and non covid times.

Dealing with customers and driving a heavy vehicle seems like a nightmare to me so I wouldn’t apply the same rules to that one haha

Away With The Fairies

igCorcaigh wrote: »

If anyone needs a late Halloween horror story, read the recent Irish Times article on nipah virus. If that thing went pandemic, god help us all!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/science/the-real-contagion-virus-is-out-there-and-it-s-causing-virologists-to-worry-1.4387162%3fmode=amp

That's what I read earlier. Seriously, if covid had a high mortality rate, is our government happy to have half arsed measures and allowing people to die?

Strumms

biggebruv wrote: »

Dealing with customers and driving a heavy vehicle seems like a nightmare to me so I wouldn’t apply the same rules to that one haha

100%. I wouldn’t do the job for love nor money. I wouldn’t want them driving a vehicle and interacting with a customer, that’s not at all same. But if at a bus stop a customer asked, “ do you stop at St Patrick’s college “... I don’t think “ yes I do “ is a problem. If it was a customer wishing to debate the fare system...” sorry I can’t help, please e-mail Dublin bus, I need to focus on the road, for the safety of passengers thanks for understanding “.

An ex work colleague is now a bus driver. From a desk job, reasonably cushy to driving the 41 mainly. He did about 2 years and is itching to get out. Left our place as he shared an office with a bit of a troublesome personality ( not me ) and there was developing tensions to having his own front of bus office but he’s going stir crazy because of the Groundhog Day type aspects.

While from the outside the picture looks rosy. There are a few hidden concerns. Cork falling slower that the rest of the country. Donegal very quickly hit 1.0 on the measure, but are now stuck on that value more or less for 2 weeks, and some counties still growing, albeit slowly.

prunudo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

While from the outside the picture looks rosy. There are a few hidden concerns. Cork falling slower that the rest of the country. Donegal very quickly hit 1.0 on the measure, but are now stuck on that value more or less for 2 weeks, and some counties still growing, albeit slowly.

Wicklow has been just off the bottom of the overall table for weeks but has been hovering around 10-15 daily cases. While its great that its low, it is worrying that they're not dropping in low single digits, hopefully the week ahead willl change this as level 5 restrictions kick into play.

is_that_so

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Simon Harris was saying level 5 was working before even 7 days had passed.

As he's been all the way through, he's promoting the government decisions. Not sure what else people imagine he would be saying. It's also down to the increasing number of voices questioning the Level 5 move given that Level 3 has taken a good chunk off the numbers.

is_that_so

325 in hospital and 44 in ICU this morning.

Non solum non ambulabit

Deleted User wrote: »

While from the outside the picture looks rosy. There are a few hidden concerns. Cork falling slower that the rest of the country. Donegal very quickly hit 1.0 on the measure, but are now stuck on that value more or less for 2 weeks, and some counties still growing, albeit slowly.

Hopefully Level 5 will do the job on Cork and Donegal once the numbers come through this week.

Based on the huge drop in Cavan cases over the weekend i expect them to come in line in the next few days

s1ippy

Strumms wrote: »

100%. I wouldn’t do the job for love nor money. I wouldn’t want them driving a vehicle and interacting with a customer, that’s not at all same. But if at a bus stop a customer asked, “ do you stop at St Patrick’s college “... I don’t think “ yes I do “ is a problem. If it was a customer wishing to debate the fare system...” sorry I can’t help, please e-mail Dublin bus, I need to focus on the road, for the safety of passengers thanks for understanding “.

is_that_so

Controlling deforestation and wildlife trade could prevent pandemics says a new report.

Future pandemics could be prevented if unsustainable practices like deforestation and the industrial-scale wildlife trade are halted, according to a global biodiversity report. The cost of doing so would be paid back many times over, simply because we wouldn’t have to go through another pandemic.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2258527-controlling-deforestation-and-wildlife-trade-could-prevent-pandemics/

JDD

So we're ten days into the Level 5, and it's really only now that the drop in cases from the imposition of the Level 5 should be showing.

Yet daily new cases over the past week have dropped to around 50-60% to where they were two weeks ago. Showing that the last two weeks of the Level 3 were working.

Now, was Level 3 actually working? Or is the drop in cases because people were anticipating a Level 5? Let's not forget the shock to the system that was created by Dr Holohan that Sunday night when he was back in the job. Is that what triggered the fall in cases? Would Level 3 have worked without it?

OwenM

JDD wrote: »

So we're ten days into the Level 5, and it's really only now that the drop in cases from the imposition of the Level 5 should be showing.

Yet daily new cases over the past week have dropped to around 50-60% to where they were two weeks ago. Showing that the last two weeks of the Level 3 were working.

Now, was Level 3 actually working? Or is the drop in cases because people were anticipating a Level 5? Let's not forget the shock to the system that was created by Dr Holohan that Sunday night when he was back in the job. Is that what triggered the fall in cases? Would Level 3 have worked without it?

Yes I think it would have and any fearmongering 'look at Belgium, did you want to be like them' comparison is facile, we had a fraction of their incidence and they still don’t have anything like an Irish level 5 in place, 4 people allowed to visit a house, weddings with 40 people, they had 19k cases on the day we went to level 5 with twice our population, we had 1,300.

seamie78

gone a lil bit quiet on the vaccine front and as another poster pointed out maybe the calm before the storm, which got me thinking how will we hear the news if a vaccine is approved and ready to go? will be a slow build up such as a company stating results look good going for approval now followed by a drip feed of info from regulators with statements like part a looks good now we have to review part b, or will it be a big bang. the fda or the emu just coming out of nowhere stating vaccine x is approved and ready to go

is_that_so

seamie78 wrote: »

gone a lil bit quiet on the vaccine front and as another poster pointed out maybe the calm before the storm, which got me thinking how will we hear the news if a vaccine is approved and ready to go? will be a slow build up such as a company stating results look good going for approval now followed by a drip feed of info from regulators with statements like part a looks good now we have to review part b, or will it be a big bang. the fda or the emu just coming out of nowhere stating vaccine x is approved and ready to go

November is 30 days long so plenty of time to go, if there is something announced.

hmmm

seamie78 wrote: »

gone a lil bit quiet on the vaccine front and as another poster pointed out maybe the calm before the storm, which got me thinking how will we hear the news if a vaccine is approved and ready to go? will be a slow build up such as a company stating results look good going for approval now followed by a drip feed of info from regulators with statements like part a looks good now we have to review part b, or will it be a big bang. the fda or the emu just coming out of nowhere stating vaccine x is approved and ready to go

There's a good chance that this is the month we will hear results from the first of the 3 leading Western vaccine trials. Ironically, it's probably the least effective vaccine which we might hear from first, so bear in mind that might colour any media discussion.

Approval will take longer, don't expect this in November. It might happen, but is unlikely - Regulators will want to carefully scrutinise the data and may look for more time to gather safety data. There might be an emergency approval before the year-end for some groups, but we're being told that it's not realistic to expect approval for a vaccine for the general public before the middle of next year.

JDD

OwenM wrote: »

Yes I think it would have and any fearmongering 'look at Belgium, did you want to be like them' comparison is facile, we had a fraction of their incidence and they still don’t have anything like an Irish level 5 in place, 4 people allowed to visit a house, weddings with 40 people, they had 19k cases on the day we went to level 5 with twice our population, we had 1,300.

I dunno. Level 3 didn't work that well in Donegal (in fairness, in their case probably due to the North) or Dublin when they were imposed in isolation. I suppose there is a fair argument that we could have waited a bit longer to see if a nationwide Level 3 would have made a difference.

I have a sneaking suspicion that it was the Tony Holohan "Johnny's back!!" impression he did that Sunday night that really shocked people into actually cutting down on social contacts, and those two weeks of nationwide Level 3 were more strictly adhered to because of it.

I agree that comparing ourselves to other countries is facile, but not for the reason you think. Many European countries have higher incidence rates and less restrictions than us, but that is because they have a larger capacity for hospitalisations. Perhaps Belgium can handle 19,000 cases a day, and the ensuing hospitalisations that will result in three weeks time, because they have a far better health system than we do. And it's not just capacity, it's management of that capacity. And we all know where we rate on that front.

So in my opinion we HAVE to be more conservative than other European countries. We have to impose restrictions earlier, and stricter ones. We did that in March for that very reason. It's a sad fact but this is what happens when we vote in successive governments who do not have the political will to reform our health system.

is_that_so

WHO doctor on the failure of isolation strategies.

Lockdowns affecting entire populations is a price countries pay for failing to ensure people with coronavirus and their contacts self-isolate, according to an expert from the World Health Organization.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/02/covid-lockdowns-are-cost-of-self-isolation-failures-says-who-expert

MerlinSouthDub

is_that_so wrote: »

325 in hospital and 44 in ICU this morning.

Hospital numbers and hospital admissions have now stabilised. Hopefully, we will see them fall over the course of the week.

stephenjmcd

seamie78 wrote: »

gone a lil bit quiet on the vaccine front and as another poster pointed out maybe the calm before the storm, which got me thinking how will we hear the news if a vaccine is approved and ready to go? will be a slow build up such as a company stating results look good going for approval now followed by a drip feed of info from regulators with statements like part a looks good now we have to review part b, or will it be a big bang. the fda or the emu just coming out of nowhere stating vaccine x is approved and ready to go

Fairly big month ahead and personally I wouldn't expect to hear anything until later in the month.

Rolling reviews well underway, Pfizer with an unbelievable distribution plan in place so confidence quite high.

Hopefully we'll see front line workers and those who fall into the vulnerable grouping begin vaccination early in the new year.

For the rest of us it'll be mid to late next year before we're offered it, but that's expected, you vaccinate those most at risk first.

Keep an eye in the vaccine thread, usually plenty of information posted there from various journals and articles

mloc123

is_that_so wrote: »

WHO doctor on the failure of isolation strategies.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/02/covid-lockdowns-are-cost-of-self-isolation-failures-says-who-expert

What do you do with the people that refuse to isolate? Plenty of stories of them... the carer who tested positive and continued to work in a nursing home, the GAA goal keeper that played while waiting on a result etc..

Stheno

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Oh you poor thing . I hope your OH is ok now and able to help you . It is much harder on people this time and NPHET actually knew that . From day one back in March they said you only get one chance at a full lockdown .
People are more relaxed this time and not as anxious that Covid 19 is lurking behind every bush or hiding in the wardrobe

mloc123 wrote: »

What do you do with the people that refuse to isolate? Plenty of stories of them... the carer who tested positive and continued to work in a nursing home, the GAA goal keeper that played while waiting on a result etc..

Prosecute them?

mloc123

JDD wrote: »

I agree that comparing ourselves to other countries is facile, but not for the reason you think. Many European countries have higher incidence rates and less restrictions than us, but that is because they have a larger capacity for hospitalisations. Perhaps Belgium can handle 19,000 cases a day, and the ensuing hospitalisations that will result in three weeks time, because they have a far better health system than we do. And it's not just capacity, it's management of that capacity. And we all know where we rate on that front.

I dunno, last week Belgian doctors were told to keep working after testing positive because they were short staffed.

Derek Zoolander

mloc123 wrote: »

What do you do with the people that refuse to isolate? Plenty of stories of them... the carer who tested positive and continued to work in a nursing home, the GAA goal keeper that played while waiting on a result etc..

Asian countries don’t give people the choice... they have to complete isolation in a dedicated facility...

That’s essentially what WHO are advocating - pull people away from their homes and put them into communes if their are positive or need to isolate

is_that_so

mloc123 wrote: »

What do you do with the people that refuse to isolate? Plenty of stories of them... the carer who tested positive and continued to work in a nursing home, the GAA goal keeper that played while waiting on a result etc..

I don't think you can fully get rid of that short of threatening people but you get better tools. UK have now validated a number of rapid tests. They can give a system more ability to test quickly and thus to ringfence a cluster.