Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

manniot2

petes wrote: »

And do what exactly,? Level 5 is here for six weeks and there is **** all you, I or any 'lock down' merchant can do about it.

There is actually. You can voice your opposition to it to your local TD. Never underestimate the politics involved in these decisions. As soon as the majority are firmly in opposition to this nonsense, Nphet will be disbanded.

rob316

Many businesses i know that closed in March are not closing from speaking to the owners. Part of our business we closed in March isn't really closing either as we are using the click and collect clause. Same thing I'm hearing is the supports are not enough, the 10% of turnover payment won't put a dent in overheads. Most retail stores are paying far more than 10% of turnover on rent.

MOR316

We're ****ed

MOR316

manniot2 wrote: »

There is actually. You can voice your opposition to it to your local TD. Never underestimate the politics involved in these decisions. As soon as the majority are firmly in opposition to this nonsense, Nphet will be disbanded.

I saw that Holohan interview with Zara King...

Something about it made me feel very uncomfortable. I got a vibe of, "Celebrity" off the screen...

Rebelbrowser

rob316 wrote: »

Many businesses i know that closed in March are not closing from speaking to the owners. Part of our business we closed in March isn't really closing either as we are using the click and collect clause. Same thing I'm hearing is the supports are not enough, the 10% of turnover payment won't put a dent in overheads. Most retail stores are paying far more than 10% of turnover on rent.

Yeah I was in a DIY store, a home store and a crafts shop today and all said they were staying open as they are essential...

mandrake04

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Stheno wrote: »

No there was nothing apart from the online form, I'd a letter from my work but they never asked for it.

As for rolling out vaccinations, would it not make sense to use some of the Covid testing centres to do so?

Absolutely, drive through centres where possibly

NSW tested this with the flu vaccine.

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/immunisation/Documents/drive-in-flu-vaccination-clinics.pdf

rob316

NoviGlitzko wrote: »

This lockdown won't work with how divided the country is.

They took the piss with the easing of restrictions the last time so many of the public are just fed up and don't care

Jim_Hodge

Roger_007 wrote: »

Visiting a grave is one of the specified exemptions from the 5km rule. It doesn’t have to be a grave of a relative, just any grave. As you rightly say, only in Ireland.
In relation to the fines for house parties, is there any definition of what constitutes a house party? Is there a minimum number of people? Does there have to be food and drink? Does there have to be music? Is a dinner party the same as a house party?

Yes, a dinner party is a house party in this context. In fact food or drink are not prerequisites for a party. There should be no gathering in a household apart from residents. Anything else can constitute a party.

manniot2

MOR316 wrote: »

I saw that Holohan interview with Zara King...

Something about it made me feel very uncomfortable. I got a vibe of, "Celebrity" off the screen...

He loves the attention. A complete show man if ever I saw one. That is my opinion before I get slapped around on here for speaking ill of your god.

Enter name here

rob316 wrote: »

Many businesses i know that closed in March are not closing from speaking to the owners. Part of our business we closed in March isn't really closing either as we are using the click and collect clause. Same thing I'm hearing is the supports are not enough, the 10% of turnover payment won't put a dent in overheads. Most retail stores are paying far more than 10% of turnover on rent.

And those businesses found to be offering and supplying click and collect services should be breached and heavily fined for serving customers outside a 5 kms radius. So sick of this ****ing lockdown, why cant these ****ing idiots just do as they are told so we can get back to normal.

screamer

Fines are a last resort according to our grave and fearful leaders.....
We’re in level 5 how much last resort do they need to grow some b@lls and enforce the rules that are needed if we are ever to get out of this stupid lockdown.

The_Brood

For public transport being cut down to 25% capacity: What about those who rely on public transport to go food shopping, but could/will be turned away from buses due to lack of capacity? What do they do then? Go without food? Not everyone has a car or should be expected to have a car. In fact the push has been for more green choices. So what then, no food?

Jim_Hodge

Enter name here wrote: »

And those businesses found to be offering and supplying click and collect services should be breached and heavily fined for serving customers outside a 5 kms radius. So sick of this ****ing lockdown, why cant these ****ing idiots just do as they are told so we can get back to normal.

Where are you getting the connection between click & collect and the 5km limit? It's not in anything I've read. Indeed, it allows travel to click & collect outside 5km.

Can you show the detail you have?

RobertKK

Do people still believe the myth that Simon Harris did a good job as minister for Health?
Seems little was done.

https://twitter.com/SiCarswell/status/1318659754001129472?s=20

Eod100

Kenzie Melodic Vaccine wrote: »

****ing hopeless. stuck in an endless cycle of lockdowns for 12 months.

Government spending millions on PUP every-time there is restrictions, should be pumping millions into hiring contact tracers, public health doctors, lab scientists, doctors and nurses.

Jack1985

RobertKK wrote: »

Do people still believe the myth that Simon Harris did a good job as minister for Health?
Seems little was done.

https://twitter.com/SiCarswell/status/1318659754001129472?s=20

I don't blame Harris. He’s a token idiot elected to receive a pay packet of 100K+ per year still looking for the 18 other Coronaviruses.

We have a HSE management structure that can't admit they are in over their heads; it's been the status quo for years.

NPHET is made up of these characters.

Jinglejangle69

RobertKK wrote: »

Do people still believe the myth that Simon Harris did a good job as minister for Health?
Seems little was done.

https://twitter.com/SiCarswell/status/1318659754001129472?s=20

Yeah it's his fault the HSE didn't hire enough contact tracers.

He shouldn't be the minister for Health.

Oh wait......

Plumbthedepths

RobertKK wrote: »

Do people still believe the myth that Simon Harris did a good job as minister for Health?
Seems little was done.

https://twitter.com/SiCarswell/status/1318659754001129472?s=20

But he looked so hard working with his sleeves rolled up.

jam_mac_jam

How hard is it to train extra staff for contract tracking. They had six months. This oh we were not prepared is not really going to cut it.

If we were seriously overwhelmed in my job for the want of people making phone calls we would hire people. They have a billion euro to pay people to lose their jobs but not enough to employ extra staff.

This is an absolute joke. Imagine getting a text message oh tell people you know to go to the GP.

The_Brood

The_Brood wrote: »

For public transport being cut down to 25% capacity: What about those who rely on public transport to go food shopping, but could/will be turned away from buses due to lack of capacity? What do they do then? Go without food? Not everyone has a car or should be expected to have a car. In fact the push has been for more green choices. So what then, no food?

Same as they did last time capacity was reduced in March/April.
Also for your reading pleasure
https://www.transportforireland.ie/news/nta-statement-on-moving-to-level-5-of-living-with-covid/

Doctors room ghost

MOR316 wrote: »

We're ****ed

No we’re not.
The shops are packed with food. I was in Aldi earlier today and shelves are fully stocked and fcuk all people there.Thanks to the staff and the producers and delivery drivers.long may it last.
The drama queens punched themselves out in march. The want and excitement is gone off them.
We are doing ok given what we are dealing with.
Our grandparents and the generations before went through famines and wars with food rations and lived on crumbs.
We are living like kings and queens with the best of food and the best of technology.
We have it that good,we forget how good we have it.

RobertKK

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Yeah it's his fault the HSE didn't hire enough contact tracers.

He shouldn't be the minister for Health.

Oh wait......

He was the minister for health during the first number of months, and still acts like one when it suits him, as if he did a good job the first time round.

Stheno

hmmm wrote: »

I think what needs to happen in there (track and trace) is the appointment of a no-nonsense type, ideally perhaps from a private sector background, with a big budget and the authority to make things happen. Scale the operation up quickly and eliminate inefficiencies as much as possible. This is an emergency and needs to be treated as such.

I once worked in a consulting capacity with IT in the HSE and engaged there at a very senior level.

One of them asked if I would ever consider working in the HSE and I laughed at them. I work in the exact area you mention in that I do business process improvement and my job is all about identifying what doesn't work and developing solutions tha can fix it.

Some of the issues we have with the HSE and Department of Health we have are :

1. The old Health Board system is still there, there is no unified national approach
2. Nobody at a senior enough level is tasked with addressing point 1.
3. There is constant turf guarding, witness the rows between Paul Reid and Tony Holohan

To bring in someone as you suggest would mean someone reporting to Stephen Donnelly tbh

In the company I work in we have started to achieve what you mention

The biggest factor? People. Getting people onboard. Whether its what I've referenced above, or how the government losing the people, they've failed utterly

Jinglejangle69

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

No we’re not.
The shops are packed with food. I was in Aldi earlier today and shelves are fully stocked and fcuk all people there.Thanks to the staff and the producers and delivery drivers.long may it last.
The drama queens punched themselves out in march. The want and excitement is gone off them.
We are doing ok given what we are dealing with.
Our grandparents and the generations before went through famines and wars with food rations and lived on crumbs.
We are living like kings and queens with the best of food and the best of technology.
We have it that good,we forget how good we have it.

Very good post to bring back the reality.

Thanks:)

rob316

Enter name here wrote: »

And those businesses found to be offering and supplying click and collect services should be breached and heavily fined for serving customers outside a 5 kms radius. So sick of this ****ing lockdown, why cant these ****ing idiots just do as they are told so we can get back to normal.

Do Aldi, Lidl and Tesco ask have you travelled more than 5km to get to us?

Spanish Eyes

The_Brood wrote: »

For public transport being cut down to 25% capacity: What about those who rely on public transport to go food shopping, but could/will be turned away from buses due to lack of capacity? What do they do then? Go without food? Not everyone has a car or should be expected to have a car. In fact the push has been for more green choices. So what then, no food?

If they can, get stuff delivered. If they can't a neighbour would surely help and leave the shopping at the doorstep. We do that for our neighbour when ordering our grocery shopping online, and it's grand. He can walk up to the shop to buy the paper and a lottery ticket and have a chat, but would not be able to carry shopping home. He refuses our offer of driving him there, is a bit wary of virus transmission. That's ok.

Or contact ALONE.

Sierra Oscar

Eod100 wrote: »

Not ideal https://twitter.com/SiCarswell/status/1318659754001129472?s=19

We really shouldn't be in this position. The Government had plenty of time to really beef up contact tracing.

This makes the testing figures unreliable too considering so many close contacts aren't getting tested as they don't know they have to. Terrible.

Cilldara_2000

Regarding this deaths table thing, the lag is greater than three months.

Comparing it against the table shown in this article: https://www.thejournal.ie/number-of-deaths-per-month-in-ireland-5202283-Sep2020/

Between 1 August 2020 and 30 September 2020, the following number of additional deaths were registered in each month:

2020  2019

January    65    19
February   66     7
March     114    17
April     181     7
May       207    16
June      334     6
July     1041    10

For ex, April was more than three months before 31 July yet there were still 181 deaths in April only registered between 1 August and 30 September. The average deaths in May per the September table for the previous five years was 2508. May 2020 is 2410 per the September table. It could easily rise to or exceed the average by the time all the registrations are complete.

The_Brood

DubInMeath wrote: »

Same as they did last time capacity was reduced in March/April.
Also for your reading pleasure
https://www.transportforireland.ie/news/nta-statement-on-moving-to-level-5-of-living-with-covid/

? There is not a word there about shopping.

CoronaBlocker

hmmm wrote: »

Their people are exhausted, I know one public health person personally and I'm worried about their own health. It's not their fault, they've never had the resources to deal with a full blown pandemic in this country.

I think what needs to happen in there (track and trace) is the appointment of a no-nonsense type, ideally perhaps from a private sector background, with a big budget and the authority to make things happen. Scale the operation up quickly and eliminate inefficiencies as much as possible. This is an emergency and needs to be treated as such.

There's a lot of middle-management in the HSE picking their nose and surfing the web all day. They should hit them up.

Enter name here

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Where are you getting the connection between click & collect and the 5km limit? It's not in anything I've read. Indeed, it allows travel to click & collect outside 5km.

Can you show the detail you have?

rob316 wrote: »

Do Aldi, Lidl and Tesco ask have you travelled more than 5km to get to us?

Essential purposes for travel (permitted outside 5km limit)
to shop for essential items

from the gov.ie site, should be a special clause for the Irish that cant fking read though.

Eod100

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

How hard is it to train extra staff for contract tracking. They had six months. This oh we were not prepared is not really going to cut it.

If we were seriously overwhelmed in my job for the want of people making phone calls we would hire people. They have a billion euro to pay people to lose their jobs but not enough to employ extra staff.

This is an absolute joke. Imagine getting a text message oh tell people you know to go to the GP.

Exactly. Katie Hannon read out a text from someone who has been unemployed since March and has contacted to see if they could be hired as contact tracer several times and never got any reply. Plenty of people out of work would jump at the chance of doing the job even if it was temporary. As you say government paying PUP anyway, might as well get people working and people fighting covid19 at the same time. It's a no brainer.

JP Liz V1

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1318664497142386688

The_Brood

Enter name here wrote: »

Essential purposes for travel (permitted outside 5km limit)
to shop for essential items

from the gov.ie site, should be a special clause for the Irish that cant fking read though.

The question is not will shopping be allowed (imagine if it was not) it is how will get on the bus to do your shopping when it is only running at 25%?

MelbourneMan

Kenzie Melodic Vaccine wrote: »

****ing hopeless. stuck in an endless cycle of lockdowns for 12 months.

For twelve months, would make it not endless.

It is likely the best option by all analyses. However undesirable it might be, a regularly adapting sequence of restriction variations is in some ways and elegant and sophisticated way of managing a problem that at its heart has to solution at the moment. Demanding that there be one because people dont want lockdowns - a very wide term at this stage - is simply irrational. When the history of Covid is written, Ireland, and NPHET, will be judged to have managed the crisis extremely well, I am quite sure. The criticism and anger directed at them at the moment is an angry lashing out, which is neither merited, nor well considered.

The_Brood

The_Brood wrote: »

? There is not a word there about shopping.

OK can see I'm going to have to join the dots for you.

Shopping is an essential purpose.
From the link
We would ask people to avoid travelling at times of the day when a lot of school children are using public transport, (07:30-08:30 and 15:30-17:30), and only to use public transport for essential purposes.

Also in relation to the reduction as you were so originally worried about, while forgetting that it was also reduced in March/April.
Again from the link

We expect that the overall national restrictions that will be in place under Level 5 will lead to a fall in demand for public transport. At this stage, it is our view that we will be in a position to accommodate that demand within the 25% ceiling.

Overall capacity will be greater under Level 5 compared to say March and April of this year.
That’s partly because thanks to a government subsidy, commercial operators are now providing far more services than they did earlier this year, and partly because PSO services are being maintained at current levels

ixoy

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Looks like that's what's going to happen now

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1318662134235058178?s=19

Hah! I came up with the same idea after spending one minute thinking about it. Looks like I should get a job in the HSE management!

Jim_Hodge

Enter name here wrote: »

Essential purposes for travel (permitted outside 5km limit)
to shop for essential items

from the gov.ie site, should be a special clause for the Irish that cant fking read though.

Maybe you need to look up what has been classed as essential retail

From Department of the Taoiseach

Published at 14 October 2020

Last updated 20 October 2020

any other retail outlet that operates an online or other remote system of ordering goods for purposes of collection at the retail outlet

Or do you need a larger font and a few expletives to comprehend it.

Enter name here

DubInMeath wrote: »

OK can see I'm going to have to join the dots for you.

Shopping is an essential purpose.
From the link
We would ask people to avoid travelling at times of the day when a lot of school children are using public transport, (07:30-08:30 and 15:30-17:30), and only to use public transport for essential purposes.

Also in relation to the reduction as you were so originally worried about, while forgetting that it was also reduced in March/April.
Again from the link

We expect that the overall national restrictions that will be in place under Level 5 will lead to a fall in demand for public transport. At this stage, it is our view that we will be in a position to accommodate that demand within the 25% ceiling.

Overall capacity will be greater under Level 5 compared to say March and April of this year.
That’s partly because thanks to a government subsidy, commercial operators are now providing far more services than they did earlier this year, and partly because PSO services are being maintained at current levels

FFS shopping is not an essential purpose why is it so hard for people to understand. Shopping for essential items like food, medication etc is allowed.HEADING TO SMYTHS OR GOLF SHOP IS NOT ALLOWED!!!!!

Eod100

According to The Journal there's only 280 contact tracers over 8 centres as of 8th October. 65 were due to start then so assuming they did 345. No wonder they're struggling.

https://www.thejournal.ie/contact-tracers-5226529-Oct2020/

Enter name here

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Maybe you need to look up what has been classed as essential retail


Or do you need a larger font and a few expletives to comprehend it.

Interpretations like yours is why we will be in a lockdown permanently.

Jim_Hodge

Enter name here wrote: »

FFS shopping is not an essential purpose why is it so hard for people to understand. Shopping for essential items like food, medication etc is allowed.HEADING TO SMYTHS OR GOLF SHOP IS NOT ALLOWED!!!!!

It is if the store is operating. Read the list of 'essential retail'. It has been made clear that you can travel to any store operating in store or click and collect.
It is allowed.

stephenjmcd

Enter name here wrote: »

FFS shopping is not an essential purpose why is it so hard for people to understand. Shopping for essential items like food, medication etc is allowed.HEADING TO SMYTHS OR GOLF SHOP IS NOT ALLOWED!!!!!

Except you are allowed to go and collect anything bought online under click and collect services.

It's listed within the allowed retail

mandrake04

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Australia? Like where Melbourne is?

100 days confined to their homes and ordered not to leave for more than two hours of daily exercise – it started as a one hour limit

and even then its very difficult to get cases down

Victoria hit 100 daily cases start of July and it took to mid September to get it down to around 50.

That was about 17,500 cases and the peak hit 700 one day... 700.

Jim_Hodge

Enter name here wrote: »

Interpretations like yours is why we will be in a lockdown permanently.

It's not an interpretation, it's the clear facts,

And I resent your intimation that I don't do my bit. We have hardly been out of our house in six months and can't see our grandchildren. So don't go trying to blame someone stating facts to you for the lockdown.

Cilldara_2000

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

It is if the store is operating. Read the list of 'essential retail'. It has been made clear that you can travel to any store operating in store or click and collect.
It is allowed.

The workers are allowed travel to the shop but it's not clear that customers are supposed to travel. Only food shopping is mentioned as a reason to travel more than 5km in terms of shopping. No mention of collecting click and collect items.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2dc71-level-5/#domestic-travel-restrictions

Enter name here

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

It is if the store is operating. Read the list of 'essential retail'. It has been made clear that you can travel to any store operating in store or click and collect.
It is allowed.

Essential purposes for travel (permitted outside 5km limit)
to shop for essential items
travel to and from work, where work involves providing an essential service (see below)
to attend medical appointments and collect medicines and other health products
for vital family reasons, such as providing care to children, elderly or vulnerable people, and in particular for those who live alone, as part of an extended household but excluding social family visits
to attend a wedding or funeral
for farming purposes i.e. food production and/or care of animals
to visit a grave
Exemptions for weddings (irrespective of venue):** Up to 25 guests for wedding ceremony and reception.

Exemption for funerals: Up to 10 mourners.



here is the link:
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/66269-ireland-placed-on-level-5-of-the-plan-for-living-with-covid/#:~:text=people%20will%20be%20permitted%20to,5%20km%20of%20their%20home&text=it%20is%20possible%20to%20meet,organised%20indoor%20or%20outdoor%20events

Enter name here

Enter name here wrote: »

FFS shopping is not an essential purpose why is it so hard for people to understand. Shopping for essential items like food, medication etc is allowed.HEADING TO SMYTHS OR GOLF SHOP IS NOT ALLOWED!!!!!

You might want to read my posts lad, I never claimed that going to Argos etc was essential, allowed or not allowed.

The poster who I was replying to wanted to know how people would be able to go food shopping when public transport has been reduced. I simply replied that they managed earlier in the year when capacity was reduced etc and could still travel for the same.

Non solum non ambulabit

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Regarding this deaths table thing, the lag is greater than three months.

Comparing it against the table shown in this article: https://www.thejournal.ie/number-of-deaths-per-month-in-ireland-5202283-Sep2020/

Between 1 August 2020 and 30 September 2020, the following number of additional deaths were registered in each month:

2020  2019

January    65    19
February   66     7
March     114    17
April     181     7
May       207    16
June      334     6
July     1041    10

For ex, April was more than three months before 31 July yet there were still 181 deaths in April only registered between 1 August and 30 September. The average deaths in May per the September table for the previous five years was 2508. May 2020 is 2410 per the September table. It could easily rise to or exceed the average by the time all the registrations are complete.

Good spot.

caveat emptor

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

No we’re not.
The shops are packed with food. I was in Aldi earlier today and shelves are fully stocked and fcuk all people there.Thanks to the staff and the producers and delivery drivers.long may it last.
The drama queens punched themselves out in march. The want and excitement is gone off them.
We are doing ok given what we are dealing with.
Our grandparents and the generations before went through famines and wars with food rations and lived on crumbs.
We are living like kings and queens with the best of food and the best of technology.
We have it that good,we forget how good we have it.

Thank god for the germans :pac: They know their logistics. Could we outsource the vaccine distribution to lidl and Aldi? They already do cold chain.