Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

foxyladyxx

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I had read before ICU survival rate is well above the expected for lots of EU countries.

Why?

Is that one aspect of Ireland’s health service that’s better than the rest of Europe?

Or are people admitted to ICU in Ireland that wouldn’t be deemed necessary in other countries?

I spent 10 days in ICU back in July. The nurses there were telling me that standards in Ireland are way above that in other countries. Foreign nurses have to retrain before they can work in Irish Hospitals. The level of care I received was above and beyond what I would have imagined possible. If I had not been admitted to ICU I would have died. I needed specialist care. Ventilator, dialysis and I had a tube in my neck . .I am not sure what that was for. Meeting my consultant next week.

Polar101

Arghus wrote: »

Edit: Just saw Martina's response. And scrolling through your man's twitter, lots of David Quinn and at a bit of anti-vax... Hmmm, I smell horseshyte.

Misinformation about Covid on Twitter? Well, I never.

It's always the same thing. When people who want to believe there's something fishy going on see something on Twitter that supports that belief, they're very quick to react. Last time this place went crazy when people thought the false positive numbers were big.

bb1234567

Widdensushi wrote: »

It could be the opposite, people that have little chance of survival not being admitted, there are so many variables in those statistics it's difficult, the medical profession is learning all the time what is the best approach.

Didn't think about that. A cross comparison of the average of ICU patients admitted in Ireland vs mainland Europe should give a pretty good indication of whether that's the case. If anyone would care to do it would be interesting to see

khalessi

foxyladyxx wrote: »

I spent 10 days in ICU back in July. The nurses there were telling me that standards in Ireland are way above that in other countries. Foreign nurses have to retrain before they can work in Irish Hospitals. The level of care I received was above and beyond what I would have imagined possible. If I had not been admitted to ICU I would have died. I needed specialist care. Ventilator, dialysis and I had a tube in my neck . .I am not sure what that was for. Meeting my consultant next week.

Tube in neck was probably a triple lumen for iv fluids and antibiotics if necessary. Hope you are getting better and all goes well with consultant.

440Hertz

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I had read before ICU survival rate is well above the expected for lots of EU countries.

Why?

Is that one aspect of Ireland’s health service that’s better than the rest of Europe?

Or are people admitted to ICU in Ireland that wouldn’t be deemed necessary in other countries?

It could also be lack of pressure on the ICU system. If it's dealing with numbers it can cope with, the results are inevitably better than when you've people being ventilated maybe with older or suboptimal equipment being pushed back into use, staff under pressure, all of the issues you'd get in a big crisis.

Some of those notions of putting people on ventilators made by unheard of companies (as the UK government was pushing), using old designs seemed like a recipe for disaster when you look at how complex a ventilator is. They even use artificial intelligence to match your lung strength and gradually wean you off the machine as you gain strength. A lot of the panic about getting vacuum cleaner and aircraft manufacturers to make machines was a bit weird, considering some of them were working of very simplistic designs from decades ago, which would obviously have worse outcomes.

foxyladyxx

khalessi wrote: »

Tube in neck was probably a triple lumen for iv fluids and antibiotics if necessary. Hope you are getting better and all goes well with consultant.

Thanks Khalesi. I was intrigued about the scar on my neck. . I never asked with all the time I was there.

Rob A. Bank

Widdensushi wrote: »

It could be the opposite, people that have little chance of survival not being admitted, there are so many variables in those statistics it's difficult, the medical profession is learning all the time what is the best approach.

The numbers in Intensive Care Units depends on the gatekeeper... the team or doctor who rations this resource and argueing about the numbers is not useful, unless you know exactly what protocols they are following.

There has always been a certain amount of triage for the admissions to the expensive and scarce resource of ICU. This triage is the decision which decides who gets into ICU and who does not. The decision varies from country to country and the number of staffed ICU beds is a critical element in making the decision.

There is literature on the differences between 'normal' triage and triage in a pandemic or mass disaster. Pandemic triage is very difficult for the team involved in the decision... basically deciding who will live and who will die. That goes against the basic ethos of medical workers.

It is therefore all the more important that we try to keep the virus suppressed or eliminated... Overwhelmed hospitals will impact ALL Covid and non Covid patients needing ICU.

Otherwise the danger is that you or yours might be met at the hospital door by a doctor with a syringe of morphine in his/her hand and a death certificate book in his/her pocket... (exaggerated scenario to make the point)

Widdensushi

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

The numbers in Intensive Care Units depends on the gatekeeper... the team or doctor who rations this resource and argueing about the numbers is not useful, unless you know exactly what protocols they are following.

There has always been a certain amount of triage for the admissions to the expensive and scarce resource of ICU. This triage is the decision which decides who gets into ICU and who does not. The decision varies from country to country and the number of staffed ICU beds is a critical element in making the decision.

There is literature on the differences between 'normal' triage and triage in a pandemic or mass disaster. Pandemic triage is very difficult for the team involved in the decision... basically deciding who will live and who will die. That goes against the basic ethos of medical workers.

It is therefore all the more important that we try to keep the virus suppressed or eliminated... Overwhelmed hospitals will impact ALL Covid and non Covid patients needing ICU.

Otherwise the danger is that you or yours might be met at the hospital door by a doctor with a syringe of morphine in his/her hand and a death certificate book in his/her pocket... (exaggerated scenario to make the point)

The last paragraph is Scaremongering, irelands death rate for this year is not that much different than last year that people are being euthenasised, thank you for an otherwise very informative post.

I wonder how many asymptomatic super-spreaders there have been who infected rings around them, but were never tested?

Jim_Hodge

Widdensushi wrote: »

The last paragraph is Scaremongering, irelands death rate for this year is not that much different than last year that people are being euthenasised, thank you for an otherwise very informative post.

I'm not defending the rather crude way it was put but the scenario of ICUs not being able to take patients was, and is, a real possibility that has been kept at bay by all the actions taken since last March. I have close family working in ICUs and they say the stress of living on a knife edge is draining at times, as it is, without the added complication of Covid patients.

Rob A. Bank

Widdensushi wrote: »

The last paragraph is Scaremongering, irelands death rate for this year is not that much different than last year that people are being euthenasised, thank you for an otherwise very informative post.

I am not saying that this is what is happening, or has happened, in Ireland... but what could happen if the virus is allowed to grow exponentially to Bergamo proportions.

I hope and pray that this exaggerated scenario will never happen in this country.

MelbourneMan

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder how many asymptomatic super-spreaders there have been who infected rings around them, but were never tested?

It depends how one defines a super spreader. But you could use somewhere in the region of 200-300 as a ball park figure. The lack of accurate case number from the spring prevents calculation of a more precise value.

Happydays2020

Fascinating

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

Open windows.....

wadacrack

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Fascinating

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

Open windows.....

Thats a great article. If their was an ad or something like this on TV . He wuld really help business/people the risks and to mitigate the risk of superspreading events

khalessi

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Fascinating

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

Open windows.....

Schools have been teaching with windows open since we went back as this info has been available for a while, but article is a good read. It would help if senior classes in primary wore masks

mcburns07

iamwhoiam wrote: »

This lockdown is going to be tough . We couldn’t even get out for a walk today . Was no point in going for spin within 5kms

No comparison with bright days and sitting in the garden and pottering out for a walk a few times a day .


“ Are we there yet ? “

Not trying to be smart here, but what would you typically do on a wet Sunday in November if there were no limits?

funnydoggy

mcburns07 wrote: »

Not trying to be smart here, but what would you typically do on a wet Sunday in November if there were no limits?

Cinema, pub, go shopping, go to a friend's house etc

iamwhoiam

mcburns07 wrote: »

Not trying to be smart here, but what would you typically do on a wet Sunday in November if there were no limits?

Visit my sister , cinema , go for a swim , have a meal out or a wander in M and Spencers . Pop in to my brother for a chat , or go see a play or a musical
If there wasn’t a 5km limit I would drive out to watch the sea and the waves and have coffee in a cafe .
I can think of loads of things actually

Non solum non ambulabit

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

I am not saying that this is what is happening, or has happened, in Ireland... but what could happen if the virus is allowed to grow exponentially to Bergamo proportions.

I hope and pray that this exaggerated scenario will never happen in this country.

It won't. Don't worry about it.

Rob A. Bank

Unprecedented... the world's most prestigious and respected medical and scientific journals get very political, mainly due to Trump's handling of the pandemic.

The Lancet has become the latest medical and scientific journal to urge Americans to vote for change in next week's presidential election, publishing a scathing editorial that described the US pandemic response under Donald Trump as "disastrous".

Earlier in the month, the New England Journal of Medicine also slammed the US's "astonishing" failure to bring COVID-19 cases and deaths under control, but stopped short of explicitly endorsing Biden in next month's election.

Throughout its 208-year history, The New England Journal of Medicine has remained staunchly nonpartisan. The world’s most prestigious medical journal has never supported or condemned a political candidate... Until now.

Earlier this month the journal Nature, one of the world's most prestigious scientific publications, said it was backing Biden for US president.

Last month, for the first time in its 175-year history, US magazine Scientific American endorsed a candidate, saying it was opting for Biden.

"We do not do this lightly," the editors wrote in a sulphuric anti-Trump editorial published online for the magazine's October issue.

"The evidence and the science show that Donald Trump has badly damaged the US and its people—because he rejects evidence and science," they wrote.

The linked articles are a good read and worth following.

cj maxx

khalessi wrote: »

Schools have been teaching with windows open since we went back as this info has been available for a while, but article is a good read. It would help if senior classes in primary wore masks

My 7+8 yos have to wear masks from tomorrow in school

prunudo

cj maxx wrote: »

My 7+8 yos have to wear masks from tomorrow in school

Is that coming from the department, the school or individual teachers taking it upon themselves?

virginmediapls

mcburns07 wrote: »

Not trying to be smart here, but what would you typically do on a wet Sunday in November if there were no limits?

I'd have about 3 people knee-deep inside me in a bush just outside town. Tony Holohan has single-handedly killed the dogging scene in Ireland, and it will be the sword the man dies on.

He doesn't know the power the dogging scene yields in Ireland. He'll soon find out.

WoollyRedHat

Totally Under Control is a stunning account of how the USA government, betrayed its own states, its medical personnel and people. Cuomo on Ventilators "It was like bidding on eBay.. states are outbidding each other and then all of a sudden you've got FEMA bidding and driving up the price"

Psychedelic Hedgehog

virginmediapls wrote: »

I'd have about 3 people knee-deep inside me in a bush just outside town. Tony Holohan has single-handedly killed the dogging scene in Ireland, and it will be the sword the man dies on.

He doesn't know the power the dogging scene yields in Ireland. He'll soon find out.

(drops monocle)

Eod100

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Fascinating

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

Open windows.....

Think ventilation really needs to be highlighted more. Will be tricky this time of year but would prefer to be cold than get covid. Would look like a lagging jacker with all the layers you'd need to wrap up :pac:

virginmediapls

Psychedelic Hedgehog wrote: »

(drops monocle)

I hope the funny thing about your monocle is that it's located on your hand .

Widdensushi

cj maxx wrote: »

My 7+8 yos have to wear masks from tomorrow in school

More details please, location etc?

biggebruv

Why is public transport reduced to 25% when schools are open ridiculous can’t they operate at f100% during peak hours 6-9 3-5 maybe

Mainly Dublin bus I’m talking about here the dart is not so bad but Dublin bus during school runs are always a nightmare and the drivers don’t care about the people limit

Strumms

Ventilation... if a business say in an office with first starters at 9.00am.. heating is set via timer to come on at 7.00 am, get the place stifling ....First employee into work be it manager or whoever is responsible for opening windows in offices...should ensure a healthy and comfortable temperature can be maintained...