Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

rdwight

Ficheall wrote: »

If you got covid, would you not tell your contacts yourself anyway? Is the difficulty in having them then arrange their own tests?

Relying on people to follow this through themselves isn't rigorous enough. Apart from willingness, they might not be in a position to contact people e.g. if they're sick with Covid or if their contacts were strangers on a plane.

It's standard practice internationally now to have health authorities doing tracing.

speckle

Just a reminder of the consequences of this year and lockdowns on the blind and vision impaired services.
Remember not every vision impaired person has a dog or uses a cane or even wears glasses. They may be the person bending very low to see a price in shop, some might not be wearing a mask or not moving out of your way fast enough, or having problems seeing markings on the ground etc.
Technology usage online may also be impacted due their eyesight but even acess due to low finances.
They have problems not only with their vision but their ability to touch has been impacted.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ncbi-genuinely-concerned-over-viability-following-shop-closures-1.4386520?mode=amp

caveat emptor

BringBackMick wrote: »

Let's be honest, if NPHET was in place every winter dealing with the seasonal flu and the same clout we would have restrictions every year.

They have been given too much power here and we have lost sight if reality

Let's be honest you are comparing flu to covid again. :eek:
If you don't understand the difference then so be it.

Beanybabog

OH is positive and I’m terrified and devastated. Apparently have to do our own tracing and get own tests, according to twitter anyway

Happydays2020

BringBackMick wrote: »

Let's be honest, if NPHET was in place every winter dealing with the seasonal flu and the same clout we would have restrictions every year.

They have been given too much power here and we have lost sight if reality

NPHET should be disbanded. We need a fit for purpose Covid-19 division within the Department of the Taoiseach. This division will need to look at the broad perspective, draw on ECDC expertise, and by all means use the expertise of the likes of Cillian de Gascun.

polesheep

Beanybabog wrote: »

OH is positive and I’m terrified and devastated. Apparently have to do our own tracing and get own tests, according to twitter anyway

You are more than likely more competent to do it yourself than the HSE.

bb1234567

Almost 2% of Czech reps population has tested posture since September..unbelievably high numbers , 12,000 new cases today

Are delivery drivers essential? Will any online orders be delivered?

caveat emptor

Happydays2020 wrote: »

NPHET should be disbanded. We need a fit for purpose Covid-19 division within the Department of the Taoiseach. This division will need to look at the broad perspective, draw on ECDC expertise, and by all means use the expertise of the likes of Cillian de Gascun.

Division is a bit grandiose, perhaps brigade strength will suffice. :rolleyes:

BringBackMick

BringBackMick wrote: »

Let's be honest, if NPHET was in place every winter dealing with the seasonal flu and the same clout we would have restrictions every year.

They have been given too much power here and we have lost sight if reality

The flu is not covid. Repeat. The flu is not covid. Tony H was the CMO last winter as well. Didn't see any calls for lockdown from him.

speckle

Beanybabog wrote: »

OH is positive and I’m terrified and devastated. Apparently have to do our own tracing and get own tests, according to twitter anyway

If you could do the easy ones and if one particular one is akward do you have an intermediatry like your gp/prsctise nurse that you could ring to ask for help. Every work place is meant to have a dedignated covid officier/manager? Could you ring the head teacher if school involved? Prioritise high risk people or those with high risk family. good luck
Best wishes for a speedy recovery to your OH and hopefully negative tests for the rest.

BringBackMick

caveat emptor wrote: »

Let's be honest you are comparing flu to covid again. :eek:
If you don't understand the difference then so be it.

I definitely do but I understand that the normal flu causes very big issues for the health service on an average year and if they had a choice I'm sure they'd introduce restrictions in any normal year to slow it spreading ?

Beanybabog

speckle wrote: »

If you could do the easy ones and if one particular one is akward do you have an intermediatry like your gp/prsctise nurse that you could ring to ask for help. Every work place is meant to have a dedignated covid officier/manager? Could you ring the head teacher if school involved? Prioritise high risk people or those with high risk family. good luck
Best wishes for a speedy recovery to your OH and hopefully negative tests for the rest.

I’m not sure, we only found out so I’m reading stuff now. I have to get me and kids tested. Apparently we had to wait for contact tracing to contact us but that’s scrapped for now, given that they’re overwhelmed. If I test positive as an asymptomatic person my contacts would only be gone back
24 hours and I’ve had zero... I kept me and kids in since oh got a cough

Happydays2020

caveat emptor wrote: »

Division is a bit grandiose, perhaps brigade strength will suffice. :rolleyes:

Indeed and perhaps rename all the existing divisions as brigades instead https://www.gov.ie/en/organisation-information/0f55fb-work-of-the-department-of-the-taoiseach/

AUDI20

BringBackMick wrote: »

I definitely do but I understand that the normal flu causes very big issues for the health service on an average year and if they had a choice I'm sure they'd introduce restrictions in any normal year to slow it spreading ?

They do. Its called the flu vaccine

caveat emptor

BringBackMick wrote: »

I definitely do but I understand that the normal flu causes very big issues for the health service on an average year and if they had a choice I'm sure they'd introduce restrictions in any normal year to slow it spreading ?

It certainly does put a burden but this is a different scale issue as we are seeing. We are not alone in our hospitals filling up and we are nowhere near our traditional flu peak.
People make an assumption based on what we’ve seen so far Regarding covid and extrapolated out. I.e we’ve locked down in spring and weathered the storm. We are neglecting to factor in the fact that the humidity and temperature over the winter make the infectiousness of the virus different. Not in a good way.

Anywho do all the things right and we should all be ok. ðŸ‘

Antares35

maebee wrote: »

How the F does visiting a grave come under essential travel? Ridiculous

I've a relative who buried his son last year. As part of their way to process their grief, they keep a candle at his grave. Presumably one of those battery ones covered in or whatever. The visits to his son's grave every 2-3 days gives him comfort. Who are we to prescribe how others process their grief? In any event, he'd be a long way down my list of covid offenders, certainly after the loo roll gobshítes, the house party revellers and the degenerates sporting their masks around their neck like a fúckin bad fashion accessory.

A solitary man in a graveyard spending time at his son's grave is not the reason we are back at level five.

douglashyde

caveat emptor wrote: »

Let's be honest you are comparing flu to covid again. :eek:
If you don't understand the difference then so be it.

Do you understand the difference? Based on your chart , the infection rate mortality is .1% for seasonal flu for someone aged at 70.

CV19 has an IFR mortality of .23% for everyone on average and .05% for those aged <70. Source. Peer reviewed, meta data analysis published by the World Health Organisation a couple of weeks ago.

So, yes COVID is worse than the Flu. Is it worse to the point that we impact health, wellbeing, happiness and livelihoods?

I'm PCR-Postive it isnt.

speckle

Beanybabog wrote: »

I’m not sure, we only found out so I’m reading stuff now. I have to get me and kids tested. Apparently we had to wait for contact tracing to contact us but that’s scrapped for now, given that they’re overwhelmed. If I test positive as an asymptomatic person my contacts would only be gone back
24 hours and I’ve had zero... I kept me and kids in since oh got a cough

So has contact racing sorted the OHs?And ring your gp tomorrow for testing for you and the kids. Can you drive there to limit your contacts. Do you have a friend or neighbour to drop food etc to the house. Remember ring hse no for advice if needed. or try your council helpline number for other help.
What about your kids ...you are meant to go back 48 hours/two days minium?

You can do this... deep breathe ...get some sleep and dont be afraid to call the out of hours doctor if needed.

perrito caliente

BringBackMick wrote: »

I definitely do but I understand that the normal flu causes very big issues for the health service on an average year and if they had a choice I'm sure they'd introduce restrictions in any normal year to slow it spreading ?

Indeed. Your chart does confirm that what we are dealing with is a slightly worse Flu.

Beanybabog

speckle wrote: »

So has contact racing sorted the OHs?And ring your gp tomorrow for testing for you and the kids. Can you drive there to limit your contacts. Do you have a friend or neighbour to drop food etc to the house. Remember ring hse no for advice if needed. or try your council helpline number for other help.
What about your kids ...you are meant to go back 48 hours/two days minium?

You can do this... deep breathe ...get some sleep and dont be afraid to call the out of hours doctor if needed.

He only got his text tonight. He works from home, there’s not that many contacts. We’ve told most people he saw over whole week. I decided i wasn’t waiting for contract tracing and I’d
Call GP asap in the morning when I came across the notice that apparently that’s what we’ve to do anyway, contract tracing is breaking down. We’ve been at home no contacts for 3 days. I’m asymptomatic but scared as I’m pregnant. Kids seem grand, one coughed a bit but I’ve been hyper aware. I really expected a negative and thought I was being neurotic insisting he get tested and isolate

colly10

With fines of 500 for non essential travel outside 5k, what counts as essential.
In the next week, i’d like to pick up a cot cause I have a baby on the way and don’t have one, can I travel?
I bought a place and am expecting the keys in the next week, can I travel to pick them up?
When I get the keys, I’d like to travel to let in people delivering appliances so I can move in to avoid paying both rent and a mortgage, can I?

They’ve outlined the obvious but am not sure what’s considered valid other than that

Happydays2020

colly10 wrote: »

With fines of 500 for non essential travel outside 5k, what counts as essential.
In the next week, i’d like to pick up a cot cause I have a baby on the way and don’t have one, can I travel?
I bought a place and am expecting the keys in the next week, can I travel to pick them up?
When I get the keys, I’d like to travel to let in people delivering appliances so I can move in to avoid paying both rent and a mortgage, can I?

They’ve outlined the obvious but am not sure what’s considered valid other than that

I doubt if you explained all that to a Guard they would process a fine.

- a cot is essential
- you will be travelling to your home (in process of moving).

dmakc

colly10 wrote: »

With fines of 500 for non essential travel outside 5k, what counts as essential.
In the next week, i’d like to pick up a cot cause I have a baby on the way and don’t have one, can I travel?
I bought a place and am expecting the keys in the next week, can I travel to pick them up?
When I get the keys, I’d like to travel to let in people delivering appliances so I can move in to avoid paying both rent and a mortgage, can I?

They’ve outlined the obvious but am not sure what’s considered valid other than that

This won't be as autocratic as people make out. The cot is essential under caring for a child. Then use that excuse over and over again for the next few times

Happydays2020

dmakc wrote: »

This won't be as autocratic as people make out. The cot is essential under caring for a child. Then use that excuse over and over again for the next few times

It won’t be as autocratic as some people want it to be. Like the first time round there was common sense in application.

The scariest thing is the talk about getting the army to enforce the lock down.

Jimson

Open back up the country until a proper solution is in place to feck

If people want to stay at home and barely leave the house then do it. Let the rest of us get on with our lives

And before anyone says I'm been selfish your making no sense. If we lock down the country and get back down to under 100 cases a day what happens then when we reopen again? Back to over 1200 cases a day.

The main reason for the spike to 1300 daily is the schools been open and there probably all asymptomatic.
The schools are the main problem and something badly needs to be done about them.

There were house parties galore when we were at 50 cases a day. Its not a new thing. Its student spreading it to family members and siblings and that's whats causing the 1300 daily cases.

pm1977x

Beanybabog wrote: »

He only got his text tonight. He works from home, there’s not that many contacts. We’ve told most people he saw over whole week. I decided i wasn’t waiting for contract tracing and I’d
Call GP asap in the morning when I came across the notice that apparently that’s what we’ve to do anyway, contract tracing is breaking down. We’ve been at home no contacts for 3 days. I’m asymptomatic but scared as I’m pregnant. Kids seem grand, one coughed a bit but I’ve been hyper aware. I really expected a negative and thought I was being neurotic insisting he get tested and isolate

No doubt it’s very scary right now. If it’s any comfort a neighbour near us found out they had Covid during a pregnancy, whole family were tested, all had it, nobody got sick beyond one or two slight coughs and sore throats. Months later they’re all still fine...along with their perfectly healthy new arrival, stay strong.

Quantum Erasure

maebee wrote: »

How the F does visiting a grave come under essential travel? Ridiculous

It's an exemption on compassionate grounds,

Happydays2020

Jimson wrote: »

Open back up the country until a proper solution is in place to feck

If people want to stay at home and barely leave the house then do it. Let the rest of us get on with our lives

And before anyone says I'm been selfish your making no sense. If we lock down the country and get back down to under 100 cases a day what happens then when we reopen again? Back to over 1200 cases a day.

The main reason for the spike to 1300 daily is the schools been open and there probably all asymptomatic.
The schools are the main problem and something badly needs to be done about them.

There were house parties galore when we were at 50 cases a day. Its not a new thing.

It seems there is a target for 1 December of less than 100 cases a day and a R rate of 0.5. That would indicate to me that shops will not be open this side of Christmas as schools will keep the numbers up (but excuses will be found such as click and collect and takeaways)

caveat emptor

douglashyde wrote: »

Do you understand the difference? Based on your chart , the infection rate mortality is .1% for seasonal flu for someone aged at 70.

CV19 has an IFR mortality of .23% for everyone on average and .05% for those aged <70. Source. Peer reviewed, meta data analysis published by the World Health Organisation a couple of weeks ago.

So, yes COVID is worse than the Flu. Is it worse to the point that we impact health, wellbeing, happiness and livelihoods?

I'm PCR-Postive it isnt.

Hmmm

To answer your question, do I understand the difference. I can say I do because I can read the chart.

To ask you a question, which virus overwhelms healthcare more? And if it does overwhelm it do you not care about all of the cancer patients etc. They are dependent on us getting our **** together.

It's essentially an order of magnitude worse for most age cohorts. The government should be held account for not putting in place an adequate response. Not including bankrupting small businesses. Direct your anger where it's needed.

The virus is the same virus.

Richard Hillman

BringBackMick wrote: »

Let's be honest, if NPHET was in place every winter dealing with the seasonal flu and the same clout we would have restrictions every year.

They have been given too much power here and we have lost sight if reality

Exactly. And I guarantee Masks will be here to stay for every winter and theyll be recommending pub restrictions.

Tony Hoolihan will probably f**k off after this with his book deal and celebrity appearance but the likes of Ronan Glynn needs to be put back into his box early doors.

Ficheall

Jimson wrote: »

And before anyone says I'm been selfish your making no sense. If we lock down the country and get back down to under 100 cases a day what happens then when we reopen again? Back to over 1200 cases a day.

Wouldn't it be nice to save at least the ~400 lives in the interim?

(guesstimate: 1000 cases+ a day, at 1% (10) deaths, times 6 weeks)

caveat emptor

colly10 wrote: »

With fines of 500 for non essential travel outside 5k, what counts as essential.
In the next week, i’d like to pick up a cot cause I have a baby on the way and don’t have one, can I travel?
I bought a place and am expecting the keys in the next week, can I travel to pick them up?
When I get the keys, I’d like to travel to let in people delivering appliances so I can move in to avoid paying both rent and a mortgage, can I?

They’ve outlined the obvious but am not sure what’s considered valid other than that

Wouldn't worry about that stuff. Doubt a garda would either. Heart is in the right place. Congrats.

s1ippy

Beanybabog wrote: »

He only got his text tonight. He works from home, there’s not that many contacts. We’ve told most people he saw over whole week. I decided i wasn’t waiting for contract tracing and I’d
Call GP asap in the morning when I came across the notice that apparently that’s what we’ve to do anyway, contract tracing is breaking down. We’ve been at home no contacts for 3 days. I’m asymptomatic but scared as I’m pregnant. Kids seem grand, one coughed a bit but I’ve been hyper aware. I really expected a negative and thought I was being neurotic insisting he get tested and isolate

It doesn't look like covid is any risk to the foetus in pregnancy and the science on that that looks to be fairly certain. The precautions you're taking will hopefully protect you and your kids. Your OH must be fairly bewildered.

It can't be easy in your position but you'll get through it and hopefully look back on all this in better years with (slightly traumatised) amusement. Fingers crossed for the negative for ye.

Godspeed.

speckle

Beanybabog wrote: »

He only got his text tonight. He works from home, there’s not that many contacts. We’ve told most people he saw over whole week. I decided i wasn’t waiting for contract tracing and I’d
Call GP asap in the morning when I came across the notice that apparently that’s what we’ve to do anyway, contract tracing is breaking down. We’ve been at home no contacts for 3 days. I’m asymptomatic but scared as I’m pregnant. Kids seem grand, one coughed a bit but I’ve been hyper aware. I really expected a negative and thought I was being neurotic insisting he get tested and isolate

your gp might be able to organise a public health nurse to visit.. we had one when our family was struck by tuberceliosis. back then no mobile phone or a landline even. I know your worried but get to bed and dream sweet names for your bundle of joy thats on the way..

Quantum Erasure

perrito caliente wrote: »

Indeed. Your chart does confirm that what we are dealing with is a slightly worse Flu.

It's a logarithmic scale, about 10 to 20 times worse for anyone over 50

10000maniacs

douglashyde wrote: »

Do you understand the difference? Based on your chart , the infection rate mortality is .1% for seasonal flu for someone aged at 70.

CV19 has an IFR mortality of .23% for everyone on average and .05% for those aged <70. Source. Peer reviewed, meta data analysis published by the World Health Organisation a couple of weeks ago.

So, yes COVID is worse than the Flu. Is it worse to the point that we impact health, wellbeing, happiness and livelihoods?

I'm PCR-Postive it isnt.

It actually is.Those stats mean nothing. They are skewed as they don't have the correct flu figures.
1 in 12 cases of COVID-19 in the U.S. are documented, which they said would translate to an infection fatality rate of about 0.6%. But even this lower estimate is still at least six times higher than that of the flu. (The case fatality rate in people who become sick with flu may be 0.1%, but when you account for people who become infected with flu but never show symptoms, the death rate will be half or even a quarter of that.)  

Jimson

Ficheall wrote: »

Wouldn't it be nice to save at least the ~400 lives in the interim?

(guesstimate: 1000 cases+ a day, at 1% (10) deaths, times 6 weeks)

Close the schools so. House parties were everywhere during last lockdown and sustained the virus to 50 cases a day.

With the schools been open no way we will get down to 100. The funny thing about the schools is something like 90% are asymptomatic and nit been tested.

If your going to lock down the country the schools need to be locked down as well.

The house parties are not going to stop however much people think they will be. The schools will keep the cases ramped up by passing onto family members.

Ficheall

Oh, I'd agree on that. Keeping the schools open, especially with the current "provisions", is not in keeping with the big effort we're seemingly making to get the cases down.

Jimson

Ficheall wrote: »

Oh, I'd agree on that. Keeping the schools open, especially with the current "provisions", is not in keeping with the big effort we're seemingly making to get the cases down.

Id really prefer something like two weeks in for 1st to 3rd years and then two weeks off. Then on their two weeks off 4th to 6th years go in.

Gives plenty of time for recovery if they do catch it and teachers can schedule the two weeks work when there off.

We need to start thinking long term about the virus not these stupid lockdowns.

mandrake04

Ficheall wrote: »

Oh, I'd agree on that. Keeping the schools open, especially with the current "provisions", is not in keeping with the big effort we're seemingly making to get the cases down.

It does sound like pushing shit uphill, although the midterm break and no where to go would definitely knock some of the numbers down but return after the break could cos a surge.

I be interested to see if the target can be met 4th Dec, also December is usually a busy month for travel so if number do come down and you have people visiting family over festive time from abroad especially Europe and UK will there be another surge on the mouth of Xmas?

I don’t agree with heavy lockdown, makes more sense to lockup travellers in quarantine and allow your population to live normal life...rather than lockup the entire population to facilitate travellers having a holiday.

Happydays2020

Ficheall wrote: »

Wouldn't it be nice to save at least the ~400 lives in the interim?

(guesstimate: 1000 cases+ a day, at 1% (10) deaths, times 6 weeks)

I think the rate is around 0.6% and probably less if the infection rate remains with younger people and vulnerable are protected. We are also not sure what would have been the effect of the Level 3 and 4 measures put in place only last week. It seems there are encouraging signs from Donegal anyway.

But yes - there is a cost benefit. There are costs in terms of society, lost jobs and associated impacts on family situations and mental health, lost investment, permanent closure of businesses, plus impacts on other Non Covid health issues such as screening programmes etc. Not to mention the minimum 1.5 billion cost of this (which could fund a high tech hospital saving how many lives over a 50 year period?)

In any event, all those saved lives are not necessarily banked as it is predicated on the assertion that schools are not a problem, that retail is a problem and that enforcement activities on what we all know is the real issue works.

In the meantime, what has been done over 6 months by the health service to prepare for the inevitable second wave. Have we invested in the new drugs available in terms of treatment, have we increased capacity, have we delivered on the promise of a world class track, trace and isolate programme, have we delivered any testing in the airports/ports noting the importance of connectivity to our economy/society.

I hope this does work, but it is far from optimal. And I am not a Covid denier, I do think it is worse than the flu, I have been very compliant with the rules and am annoyed that we are where we are now although thankfully I have a stable job, I can work from home, and I am usually happy enough not to be out socialising.

Goldengirl

BringBackMick wrote: »

I definitely do but I understand that the normal flu causes very big issues for the health service on an average year and if they had a choice I'm sure they'd introduce restrictions in any normal year to slow it spreading ?

Yes. You are right . Cough etiquette , restriction of movements if symptoms , banning sign of peace at mass ...that'd do it probably

Goldengirl

Beanybabog wrote: »

I’m not sure, we only found out so I’m reading stuff now. I have to get me and kids tested. Apparently we had to wait for contact tracing to contact us but that’s scrapped for now, given that they’re overwhelmed. If I test positive as an asymptomatic person my contacts would only be gone back
24 hours and I’ve had zero... I kept me and kids in since oh got a cough

Sounds like you are doing the right things .
Good luck with your tests and hope you all are ok soon .

SweetCaliber

Bought a Oculus VR Headset today, time to escape covid reality and head to virtual Hawaii for 6 weeks folks!

MOR316

Question...

I have a videographer travelling 30km from Dublin to film something for me for a few hours next week. Now with the new restrictions, what happens?

We're told to work from home unless your presence is needed, which his obviously is. But, would this be seen as essential travel?

Any help on this would be appreciated because neither of us have a clue

Goldengirl

colly10 wrote: »

With fines of 500 for non essential travel outside 5k, what counts as essential.
In the next week, i’d like to pick up a cot cause I have a baby on the way and don’t have one, can I travel?
I bought a place and am expecting the keys in the next week, can I travel to pick them up?
When I get the keys, I’d like to travel to let in people delivering appliances so I can move in to avoid paying both rent and a mortgage, can I?

They’ve outlined the obvious but am not sure what’s considered valid other than that

Sounds all very much ok .
Just don't be having a moving in party.

s1ippy

SweetCaliber wrote: »

Bought a Oculus VR Headset today, time to escape covid reality and head to virtual Hawaii for 6 weeks folks!

Remember to have someone change your nappy every second day, or you might get a bad rash.

Nah in fairness I'm just raging because my switch controller just broke about two weeks out of warranty and I've to buy a new one before I can join you in zombieland. Although... work-permitting.

quokula

Ficheall wrote: »

Wouldn't it be nice to save at least the ~400 lives in the interim?

(guesstimate: 1000 cases+ a day, at 1% (10) deaths, times 6 weeks)

This is actually an underestimate. It was 500 per day two weeks ago, it’s over 1000 per day now. There would be no reason for the number of cases not to continue to grow at the rate they have been if we didn’t change course, meaning 1000 per day would become 2000 two weeks from now then 4000 two weeks after that. Without restrictions we could be looking at 16000 cases per day by Christmas, were the last few weeks’ growth rate to be left unchecked.

MOR316

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

No we’re not.
The shops are packed with food. I was in Aldi earlier today and shelves are fully stocked and fcuk all people there.Thanks to the staff and the producers and delivery drivers.long may it last.
The drama queens punched themselves out in march. The want and excitement is gone off them.
We are doing ok given what we are dealing with.
Our grandparents and the generations before went through famines and wars with food rations and lived on crumbs.
We are living like kings and queens with the best of food and the best of technology.
We have it that good,we forget how good we have it.

What?

I'm not on about food and drink, what are you talking about? "Famines" what frogs are you licking? I never once mentioned food or technology.

There was a post about the HSE and it's contact tracing failings. I was referring to that!