Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Community swabs means care homes, residential, care, etc. 35,000 odd.

The number you need is GP referrals and tracing referrals.

gibgodsman

polesheep wrote: »

Did you really expect the same buy-in this time around?

It will be the same idiots complaining when the lockdown is extended by 2-4 weeks because they couldn't be bothered to follow the rules

Plumbthedepths

Softshoulder wrote: »

Brazil have said Chinas vaccine is safe

That's not quite true. The Brazilian president wants nothing to do with Chinese vaccine where as the mayor of Sao Paulo signed a deal with the Chinese company making a vaccine.

polesheep

gibgodsman wrote: »

It will be the same idiots complaining when the lockdown is extended by 2-4 weeks because they couldn't be bothered to follow the rules

But did you really expect people would buy-in to the same degree? Calling people idiots doesn't change facts. The authorities themselves stated that they would only get one good shot at a lockdown. Now they are back for a second shot they can hardly expect it to be as successful as the first one.

SortingYouOut

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think that this is a realistic expectation setting piece on how a vaccine would work and how it would not be a magic wand to bring us back to the old normal

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/21/covid-vaccine-immunisation-protection

A dose of realism that some don't want to hear. Many think a vaccine is going to bring about an abrupt end to this pandemic. We'll be dancing around Covid-19 well into 2022 and potentially for the rest of our lives.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

This should be aided by that fact that from tomorrow, most peoples contacts will be within their own home

I don't think there will be the significant drop off in contacts from today compared to tomorrow that some people think there will be.

There is much open compared to last "lockdown" and far less appetite for compliance.

ACitizenErased wrote: »

No it doesn't.

I stand corrected, they use to lump them in with community referalls.

Golfman64

SortingYouOut wrote: »

A dose of realism that some don't want to hear. Many think a vaccine is going to bring about an abrupt end to this pandemic. We'll be dancing around Covid-19 well into 2022 and potentially for the rest of our lives.

The last 5 significant pandemics lasted between 1 and 2 years. I think it's reasonable to estimate, given the advances in medicine, technology and communication that we may end this sooner.

SortingYouOut

Golfman64 wrote: »

The last 5 significant pandemics lasted between 1 and 2 years. I think it's reasonable to estimate, given the advances in medicine, technology and communication that we may end this sooner.

Hopefully you're right but we don't know how immunity may build with this, as it is a Coronavirus.

I'm not too savvy on pandemic histories but how many have been Coronavirus?

From what I gather, they can become seasonal and it may be a case that we would need an annual vaccine. It's a bit like having a new common cold but it's the common cold's shady cousin who's been in and out of prison.

SortingYouOut

SortingYouOut wrote: »

Hopefully you're right but we don't know how immunity may build with this, as it is a Coronavirus.

I'm not too savvy on pandemic histories but how many have been Coronavirus?

From what I gather, they can become seasonal and it may be a case that we would need an annual vaccine. It's a bit like having a new common cold but it's the common cold's shady cousin who's been in and out of prison.

We know of one likely one. The Russian Flu in 1889/90 was believed to have been caused by a the emergence of a virus that's now part of the common cold. Quite likely there were more throughout history.

owlbethere

The contact tracing collapse is very disappointing. That's something a lot of us were relying on to keep us as safe as possible.

I had to get tested the week before last. Thankfully I followed the guidelines and kept my contacts low. I already contacted my close contacts while I was waiting on results just to give them a heads up and in case they develop symptoms and also to require if they were sick or showing symptoms. Thankfully no one in my circle was showing symptoms and that gave me some peace of mind that my results will probably come back as a negative and if positive it would be community transmission and that % is small.


I don't see a problem with people doing the or own contact tracing, unfortunately it's not going to work out very well. We have seen that a lot of people are following the guidelines and behaving well but others couldn't give a toss.

Martina1991

Necro wrote: »

Contact Tracing could easily be done on WFH basis with a little bit of training, but they probably employed 15 managers to manage the small amount of tracers they actually did hire.
Yes there is sensitive data involved but anybody, literally anybody could do contact tracing with a week or two on the job training.

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

I looked up contact tracing jobs and the vacancies I saw advertised seemed to be only recruiting people from a public health background or healthcare. This surprised me as I also thought it could be the type of job possible to do it from home after initial training. Maybe there is a need for people to have this level of knowledge about healthcare but I wouldn’t have thought so until last night. I thought it would be more an administrative job and data recording.

They aren't managers. They are consultants (medical doctors) and specialists in public health. This by no means the same as the social welfare office.

The staff they need have to conduct investigations and outbreak management, contact tracing and also general advice for the public. They also need surveillance staff to manage the data and report on it.

They need experienced staff for active surveillance of close contacts in vulnerable groups, especially where significant support needed in complex settings.

Some of these specialists have worked 128 hours in one week to cope with the workload. This was made up of their normal working hours and their obligations to be on the On Call Rota.
They are meant to be running Departments of Public Health 14 hours a day, 7 days a week with no substantial increase in staff since before Covid.
Another Public Health Specialist said they routinely work more than three to four full weeks without any time off.

Here's another thread from Dr. Marie Casey from May explaining and highlighting the work of the Public Helth Dept
https://twitter.com/marietcasey/status/1259052859011805185

seamus

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1318874957594710018

This is ridiculous.

Paul Reid needs to be fired. He's a fvck up.

If Stephen Donnelly knew about this, he needs to be removed.

If he didn't, then he needs to tak the bull by the horns and take Paul Reid's place for the next 12 months, calling the shots in the HSE directly, or at least until we can find someone competent.

Le Bruise

SortingYouOut wrote: »

A dose of realism that some don't want to hear. Many think a vaccine is going to bring about an abrupt end to this pandemic. We'll be dancing around Covid-19 well into 2022 and potentially for the rest of our lives.

Without a doubt we'll be living with this for the rest of our lives, but the country can't afford to keep up with the restrictions necessary to 'dance around it' for too much longer, especially once vaccines become available. Eventually we're just going to have to go in for the shift and open up.

shmeee

All golf courses to shut under level 5 and you still want people to have other facilities open...... Give me a break!

KrustyUCC

tayto lover wrote: »

Still no word on whether golf clubs will be forced to close or not.
GUI still unsure by all accounts.

Gone according to the Irish Mirror

klose

Girlfriend works in penneys, says its bedlam as expected and opened till late aswell, should help boost up the numbers nicely the next couple weeks :rolleyes:

Gael23

Kind of giving up hope of ever having a normal
Life again with our conservative government

Golfman64

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Gone according to the Irish Mirror

Complete and utter madness but would expect nothing less from a government who can't even implement a half decent track/trace program in 6+ months and then aren't even told that it has collapsed. If this were in the real world (where management are accountable for their decisions), heads would have rolled a long time ago.

patnor1011

tayto lover wrote: »

Still no word on whether golf clubs will be forced to close or not.
GUI still unsure by all accounts.

Since golf gate and most of our overlord actively playing I would say they will deem it essential service. Our lords need to take their mind off this drama for a while, it is therapeutical.

Cluedo Monopoly

Gael23 wrote: »

Kind of giving up hope of ever having a normal
Life again with our conservative government

conservative = incompetent

And a lot of the blame has to fall on the permanent government.

Gruffalux

Golfman64 wrote: »

Complete and utter madness but would expect nothing less from a government who can't even implement a half decent track/trace program in 6+ months and then aren't even told that it has collapsed. If this were in the real world, heads would have rolled a long time ago.

Something tells me you like golf....

In fairness I cannot see how couples or a well - spaced small group could not go for a round of golf. With clubhouse closed.

patnor1011

patnor1011 wrote: »

Since golf gate and most of our overlord actively playing I would say they will deem it essential service. Our lords need to take their mind off this drama for a while, it is therapeutical.

If you play in a pair, that is in line with the guidance of being able to meet one other household in an outside setting. Just because you’re carrying a few sticks I don’t see the problem. No different to going running or cycling with a mate

ACitizenErased

The RSA have still not came out and said whether driving tests are continuing or not. People who have them tomorrow must be rightly ****ting themselves.

speckle

I agree with Martina's post above re contact tracing it runs the gamet of basic contact tracing (but still involving training)up to highly complex cases and management.
A big difference in working a case surrounding for example a
- middle aged mentally competant person than a

- older person with memory problems
-asymtomatic person
- a social butterfly
- a teenager or College goer
-a workplace/school
- hospital
- person needing language interpretation
- someone who falls ill suddenly that maybe lives alone.. I cant tell you who they have been in contact with. etc

That being said the ball was dropped and it needs to be sorted in the mean time the Irish people need to run with and we can do this.

Sheepdish1

Martina1991 wrote: »

They aren't managers. They are consultants (medical doctors) and specialists in public health. This by no means the same as the social welfare office.

The staff they need have to conduct investigations and outbreak management, contact tracing and also general advice for the public. They also need surveillance staff to manage the data and report on it.

They need experienced staff for active surveillance of close contacts in vulnerable groups, especially where significant support needed in complex settings.

Some of these specialists have worked 128 hours in one week to cope with the workload. This was made up of their normal working hours and their obligations to be on the On Call Rota.
They are meant to be running Departments of Public Health 14 hours a day, 7 days a week with no substantial increase in staff since before Covid.
Another Public Health Specialist said they routinely work more than three to four full weeks without any time off.

Here's another thread from Dr. Marie Casey from May explaining and highlighting the work of the Public Helth Dept
https://twitter.com/marietcasey/status/1259052859011805185

It seems far more complex than people think. I did think there would be some roles that are more administrative type roles though? I thought the army were previously undertaking parts of the process previously and that there were volunteers that were able to do some roles?

Kh1993

klose wrote: »

Girlfriend works in penneys, says its bedlam as expected and opened till late aswell, should help boost up the numbers nicely the next couple weeks :rolleyes:

We’ve been told this before. Penney’s reopens, cases will go up, BLM, cases will go up, mask protests, cases will go up.

Yet they haven’t in any measurable way. Just a way of looking to blame groups of people

Golfman64

Gruffalux wrote: »

Something tells me you like golf....

In fairness I cannot see how couples or a well - spaced small group could not go for a round of golf. With clubhouse closed.

Yep! It's just another park really and will actually aid with spacing out the inevitable large number of people using public parks over the next 6 weeks. Really cannot see the risk here. However, they may feel it would create too much noise from other, less safe sports and therefore the easier decision is just to close. That said, we should probably wait until confirmed by a more reliable source than the Mirror before we lose our tempers!!

Jim_Hodge

Deleted User wrote: »

If you play in a pair, that is in line with the guidance of being able to meet one other household in an outside setting. Just because you’re carrying a few sticks I don’t see the problem. No different to going running or cycling with a mate

Provided the course is within your 5km?

Golfman64

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Provided the course is within your 5km?

Yep, per the 1st lockdown when golf restarted. Initially it was members only and you must live within 5KM of the course.

hmmm

Gruffalux wrote: »

In fairness I cannot see how couples or a well - spaced small group could not go for a round of golf. With clubhouse closed.

One of my biggest issues with Level 5 is that it is too blunt - low-risk activities should be able to continue, even if they cause a small increase in cases. Redirecting people towards safer behaviour (e.g. outdoors activities) will be more sustainable over the long run.

prunudo

mfceiling wrote: »

Can anyone advise me on this?

I'm self employed and I need to get all my paperwork and laptop to my accountant tomorrow night.

Would I be ok to travel 30kms to drop off everything to his house so he can complete my end of year returns?

Thanks.

Depends who you fear more, revenue or the gardai.

mountgomery burns

Martina1991 wrote: »

They aren't managers. They are consultants (medical doctors) and specialists in public health. This by no means the same as the social welfare office.

The staff they need have to conduct investigations and outbreak management, contact tracing and also general advice for the public. They also need surveillance staff to manage the data and report on it.

They need experienced staff for active surveillance of close contacts in vulnerable groups, especially where significant support needed in complex settings.

Some of these specialists have worked 128 hours in one week to cope with the workload. This was made up of their normal working hours and their obligations to be on the On Call Rota.
They are meant to be running Departments of Public Health 14 hours a day, 7 days a week with no substantial increase in staff since before Covid.
Another Public Health Specialist said they routinely work more than three to four full weeks without any time off.

Here's another thread from Dr. Marie Casey from May explaining and highlighting the work of the Public Helth Dept
https://twitter.com/marietcasey/status/1259052859011805185

Presumably the vast majority of people working in contact tracing are not public health doctors/specialists?

But is a lot of the problem there then that the specialists are doing the administrative tasks that could be performed by others with minimal training if only they were being staffed properly?

Taking phone calls, updating someone's personal details and their "tree" of close contacts and then contacting those people is surely something the specialists should not have to do given their other duties? And given the numbers that volunteered for Ireland on Call this would seem like woeful management by HSE resourcing.

Would you agree with that or do you think the scale of the issue is just unmanageable at this stage?

owlbethere

klose wrote: »

Girlfriend works in penneys, says its bedlam as expected and opened till late aswell, should help boost up the numbers nicely the next couple weeks :rolleyes:

Very well believe it. Its madness.

gibgodsman

polesheep wrote: »

But did you really expect people would buy-in to the same degree? Calling people idiots doesn't change facts. The authorities themselves stated that they would only get one good shot at a lockdown. Now they are back for a second shot they can hardly expect it to be as successful as the first one.

Yes, I honestly would think people in Ireland would have brain cells and could see by the daily rising in cases that another lockdown was not only expected but when it would happen and that if we just took another 4 weeks to get the numbers down we may have a few months of normality again

KennisWhale

BringBackMick wrote: »

Swabs today will be very interesting

If we below 900 it’d be good progress

Level 3 data. Would show level 5 being knee-jerk so hopefully the numbers are as predicted.

Martina1991

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

It seems far more complex than people think. I did think there would be some roles that are more administrative type roles though? I thought the army were previously undertaking parts of the process previously and that there were volunteers that were able to do some roles?

FAR more complex than people realise. It isn't like a call centre. People making the calls are the point of contact the public have with the system so they think that's all there is to it.

There's managment, surveillance, clinical advice, data reporting, and supervising of all these tasks from nursing homes to universities to businesses to schools.

The areas of healthcare that aren't patient facing are often brushed aside, kept in the dark and neglected until they break.

There is a complete lack of knowledge and understanding from the public about these areas behind the scenes. It's very easy to comment and critisise on professions people know nothing about.

It is the fault of the HSE and the minister for health for sweeping these departments under the rug for years and not listening to their long standing concerns.

It has come back to bite them big time and we are all the ones who suffer.

Paddygreen

Widdensushi wrote: »

The % positivity and the amount of tests will speak for themselves, anyone that thinks they might need testing has a responsibility to get tested, they shouldn't need big brother to tell them.

It’s the antisocial right wing nazi types that are holding us back. I’d hold them down while they get tested, for free, I could dust off my black belt and put some manners on them as we round them up. Hopefully 2021 or 2022 will be year zero... covid.

Jim_Hodge

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Provided the course is within your 5km?

Yes. Difficult to justify it as essential! Unless you’re a minister or judge

KennisWhale

Paddygreen wrote: »

It’s the antisocial right wing nazi types that are holding us back. I’d hold them down while they get tested, for free, I could dust off my black belt and put some manners on them as we round them up. Hopefully 2021 or 2022 will be year zero covid.

Keyboard warrior.

Martina1991

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Presumably the vast majority of people working in contact tracing are not public health doctors/specialists?
But is a lot of the problem there then that the specialists are doing the administrative tasks that could be performed by others with minimal training if only they were being staffed properly?
Taking phone calls, updating someone's personal details and their "tree" of close contacts and then contacting those people is surely something the specialists should not have to do given their other duties? And given the numbers that volunteered for Ireland on Call this would seem like woeful management by HSE resourcing.
Would you agree with that or do you think the scale of the issue is just unmanageable at this stage?

I dont know what the breakdown is between public health specific employees and those who were recruited specifically for contact tracing.
My point was, its far more detailed and complicated that getting people to work from home and make a few calls.
It is the fault of the HSE for not properly addressing chronic understaffing in public health departments.

TonyMaloney

With regards golf, lads, try to view it through the eyes of someone living in a block of flats with f all accessible amenities for the next six weeks.
What will it do for compliance if there's a common view that the lockdown favours the wealthy not just in terms of economic impacts, but even in terms of what they can avail of during the "lockdown".

whisky_galore

Latest from HSE: make and do your own ventilator with common household items.

Kh1993

TonyMaloney wrote: »

With regards golf, lads, try to view it through the eyes of someone living in a block of flats with f all accessible amenities for the next six weeks.
What will it do for compliance if there's a common view that the lockdown favours the wealthy not just in terms of economic impacts, but even in terms of what they can avail of during the "lockdown".

Good point. Lockdown from a logistical point of view is handy enough if you’ve a decent house, garden, family life and can comfortably work from home. Whereas if you’re in a service industry, living in a flat/apartment/sharing, you lose out disproportionately.

Sheepdish1

Martina1991 wrote: »

FAR more complex than people realise. It isn't like a call centre. People making the calls are the point of contact the public have with the system so they think that's all there is to it.

There's managment, surveillance, clinical advice, data reporting, and supervising of all these tasks from nursing homes to universities to businesses to schools.

The areas of healthcare that aren't patient facing are often brushed aside, kept in the dark and neglected until they break.

There is a complete lack of knowledge and understanding from the public about these areas behind the scenes. It's very easy to comment and critisise on professions people know nothing about.

It is the fault of the HSE and the minister for health for sweeping these departments under the rug for years and not listening to their long standing concerns.

It has come back to bite them big time and we are all the ones who suffer.

Completely agree it is very complex and those roles could only be filled by someone qualified to do these roles. However there are surely roles that can be carried out by people eg administrative duties? How could volunteers participate in the process if this isn’t the case or did did specialist volunteer their time?

I heard reports last week that contracts being offered are zero hour contracts which is baffling particularly if so many of the duties require specialists.

AlphaDelta1

My daughter just texted me to say she's never seen it so busy in the Jervis centre Dublin. She works retail and has seen it all but nothing like this. Gardai where outside Penny's this morning on Henry Street due to crowd issues. Also said mask wearing seems to have gone out the window.

I despair for our society when people can be this stupid.

ednwireland

Kh1993 wrote: »

Good point. Lockdown from a logistical point of view is handy enough if you’ve a decent house, garden, family life and can comfortably work from home. Whereas if you’re in a service industry, living in a flat/apartment/sharing, you lose out disproportionately.

guess who the rules are made by

Sheepdish1

Martina1991 wrote: »

I dont know what the breakdown is between public health specific employees and those who were recruited specifically for contact tracing.
My point was, its far more detailed and complicated that getting people to work from home and make a few calls.
It is the fault of the HSE for not properly addressing chronic understaffing in public health departments.

People understand that it’s not the department that has caused the problem. It’s the chronic understaffing and resources.

Doctors room ghost

AlphaDelta1 wrote: »

My daughter just texted me to say she's never seen it so busy in the Jervis centre Dublin. She works retail and has seen it all but nothing like this. Gardai where outside Penny's this morning on Henry Street due to crowd issues. Also said mask wearing seems to have gone out the window.

I despair for our society when people can be this stupid.

One should never underestimate the stupidity of others

Golfman64

TonyMaloney wrote: »

With regards golf, lads, try to view it through the eyes of someone living in a block of flats with f all accessible amenities for the next six weeks.
What will it do for compliance if there's a common view that the lockdown favours the wealthy not just in terms of economic impacts, but even in terms of what they can avail of during the "lockdown".

Public Parks will remain open. I don't see much of a difference whether you meet someone for a walk in a park or a walk around a golf course provided both are within 5KM of your home.

ixoy

AlphaDelta1 wrote: »

My daughter just texted me to say she's never seen it so busy in the Jervis centre Dublin. She works retail and has seen it all but nothing like this.

These people understand that you can still order most of this stuff online right? That Smyths will also have a click-and-collect for example, which - to be fair - they Tweet about.

It's not even like some of this should be a surprise. I went into town last Monday and did a good chunk of shopping on the assumption things would close (it was lovely and quiet too). Perhaps though I'm better informed/organised than others?