Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

cnocbui

political analyst wrote: »

The lockdown is depriving many small and medium enterprise (SME) owners of their livelihoods even though they are not responsible for other people's failure to adhere to social distancing. Isn't that like exterminating the population of a village in retaliation for the killing of soldiers by insurgents?

You should familiarise yourself with the Irish constitution. It has just one clause to it, which reads: The government can do whatever it likes, whenever it likes.

polesheep

batman_oh wrote: »

I was waiting in the car outside the Chinese for my order you weirdo.

I don't think it's me that's the weirdo.

Plumbthedepths

cnocbui wrote: »

You should familiarise yourself with the Irish constitution. It has just one clause to it, which reads: The government can do whatever it likes, whenever it likes.

Eh , no it can't.

I Am The Law

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Collective punishment?
Incedently I watched a segment on the news tonight, not by choice btw. I noticed the shoe shop was closing due to restrictions yet I noticed behind him he had workboots on the shelf behind him as he spoke to the cameras. The selling of PPE is classed as essential retail he could have remained open under the new restrictions.

A loophole, I like it, 2 500ml bottles of hand sanitizer and a pint of Guinness please.

Plumbthedepths

polesheep wrote: »

I don't think it's me that's the weirdo.

Awful lot of people watching going on , particularly of kids and older teens. Not weird at all though. ;-)

Plumbthedepths

I Am The Law wrote: »

A loophole, I like it, 2 500ml bottles of hand sanitizer and a pint of Guinness please.

It's not a loophole, the selling of PPE is classed as essential retail. It's not that hard to read the information on the gov.ie website.

JP100

political analyst wrote: »

On school days, they're not hanging around for as long as they do during the holidays.

Brighter evenings and great weather last spring/early summer. This time around, dark wet evenings and the much anticipated release of the new playstation coming very soon. Methinks the compunction for kids to stay indoors will be that much greater this time around.

pjohnson

batman_oh wrote: »

I'm not sure what you are implying you creep. But go and get fooked. Its hard to miss a gang of people standing outside a set of shops when you are there

Not when you have spent months in denial about whats going on.


Theres plenty of folks here on this very site who boast about not wearing masks and that poster frequently goes to those threads so why hes tryna play dumb now is odd.

Icyseanfitz

JP100 wrote: »

Brighter evenings and great weather last spring/early summer. This time around, dark wet evenings and the much anticipated release of the new playstation coming very soon. Methinks the compunction for kids to stay indoors will be that much greater this time around.

Those PlayStations are sold out :pac:

cnocbui

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Eh , no it can't.

Er, yes it can.

Freedom of peaceful assembly
Freedom of association
Family and home life
Personal liberty
The right to earn a livelihood
Freedom to travel

cancelled.

martingriff

cnocbui wrote: »

Er, yes it can.

Freedom of peaceful assembly
Freedom of association
Family and home life
Personal liberty
The right to earn a livelihood
Freedom to travel

cancelled.

How many of them are actually in the Irish constitution. There is no freedom of association in Ireland if that was show then it would not be against the law to be associated with a terrorist organisation.

cnocbui

martingriff wrote: »

How many of them are actually in the Irish constitution. There is no freedom of association in Ireland if that was show then it would not be against the law to be associated with a terrorist organisation.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/irish_constitution_1/constitution_fundamental_rights.html

Freedom of association

The Constitution guarantees your right to form associations and unions (Article 40.6.1.iii). You may form any type of association for whatever purpose you choose, whether it is sporting, social, charitable, commercial or political.

This right is limited by legislation to protect public order and morality. For example, associations formed for the purpose of treason or some anti-constitutional or illegal purpose cannot rely on this right to freedom of association.

Plumbthedepths

cnocbui wrote: »

Er, yes it can.

Freedom of peaceful assembly
Freedom of association
Family and home life
Personal liberty
The right to earn a livelihood
Freedom to travel

cancelled.

If the government can do what it likes then we would not have had to have several referendums in the last several years. There is however the 1947 ( or 48) health act which much if the regulations are underpinned by. Even H McEntee admitted they can't stop peaceful protests as the to do so would be repugnant to the Constitution.

bennyl10

cnocbui wrote: »

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/irish_constitution_1/constitution_fundamental_rights.html

The common good takes precedence over all of them.

If the common good can be proven, for example a pandemic, then the law can be changed

seamus

It must be fun continuously trying to justify your certainty that it's being caused by the schools.

If a poster above is to be believed, they're deliberately not testing kids so that they can fluff the stats, but they are tracing the contacts for the kids they didn't test and thats making up the bulk of the CTT team's work.

manniot2

bennyl10 wrote: »

The common good takes precedence over all of them.

If the common good can be proven, for example a pandemic, then the law can be changed

I wonder did the authors envisage a situation where unelected public sector workers would be deciding what the "common good" is, with little or no balance and proportionality, and dissenting voices squashed.

Plumbthedepths

bennyl10 wrote: »

The common good takes precedence over all of them.

If the common good can be proven, for example a pandemic, then the law can be changed

What are you taking about, the poster claimed the government can do what they want which is wrong. The government must act in accordance with the constitution which can only be changed by referring to the people in the form of a referendum.

FintanMcluskey

bennyl10 wrote: »

The common good takes precedence over all of them.

If the common good can be proven, for example a pandemic, then the law can be changed

Does a state of emergency need to be declared before any laws are amended?

I Am The Law

manniot2 wrote: »

I wonder did the authors envisage a situation where unelected public sector workers would be deciding what the "common good" is, with little or no balance and proportionality, and dissenting voices squashed.

Unlike our elected public servants?

Maxbing

I cant believe the Irish people are just rollin over and taking this crap. It can't be any surprise that the Brits were able to piss all over us for 800 years.

eagle eye

Plumbthedepths wrote:

If the government can do what it likes then we would not have had to have several referendums in the last several years. There is however the 1947 ( or 48) health act which much if the regulations are underpinned by. Even H McEntee admitted they can't stop peaceful protests as the to do so would be repugnant to the Constitution.

Repugnant, really? That's a word used in law where a law contradicts a higher law.
Stopping a peaceful process may be against the constitution but unless you try make a law preventing peaceful protests it's certainly not repugnant.

That's a a bit like your intentionally naive comment a few weeks back.

Sheepdish1

speckle wrote: »

We had a poster here early on who volunteered they said they had to have training. yes the army /gardai helped out and some centers based in universitys. Hospitals have their own as well
Personality also a factor when for example having the patience to deal with people over the phone who might be worried/panicking/angry etc.
But yes some people could side step into roles with some training as they did last spring.

Some links to articles and videos I have saved re contact tracing over the last 8 months/ not in chronological order
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-ucc-transformed-in-contact-tracing-hub-1.4219195?mode=amp

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/seven-of-nine-contact-tracing-centres-have-been-closed-1.4275957?mode=amp

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30991801.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-hse-to-open-a-third-contact-tracing-centre-1.4334330?mode=amp

https://www.ucc.ie/en/academy/news/the-human-spirit-behind-the-ucc-contact-tracing-centre-.html

https://www.thejournal.ie/contact-tracing-graduates-5201823-Sep2020/

http://trinitynews.ie/2020/03/trinity-business-school-to-host-contact-tracing-volunteers/

Just to give a general idea of the work behind the scenes and how the situation changed over the last while.

Thank you !

Plumbthedepths

eagle eye wrote: »

Repugnant, really? That's a word used in law where a law contradicts a higher law.
Stopping a peaceful process may be against the constitution but unless you try make a law preventing peaceful protests it's certainly not repugnant.

That's a a bit like your intentionally naive comment a few weeks back.

Hence why I said H McEntee admitted they couldn't stop peaceful protest.
I never said 'intentionally naive' please don't make up a lie and attribute it to me. I know exactly what I said.

JimToken

Maxbing wrote: »

I cant believe the Irish people are just rollin over and taking this crap. It can't be any surprise that the Brits were able to piss all over us for 800 years.

They did have superior firepower

If that counts for anything

polesheep

pjohnson wrote: »

Not when you have spent months in denial about whats going on.


Theres plenty of folks here on this very site who boast about not wearing masks and that poster frequently goes to those threads so why hes tryna play dumb now is odd.

What an odd thing to post. Are you suggesting that certain threads should be out of bounds? Or that by simply reading them or even posting on them means you automatically hold a particular point of view?

eagle eye

Plumbthedepths wrote:

Hence why I said H McEntee admitted they couldn't stop peaceful protest. I never said 'intentionally naive' please don't make up a lie and attribute it to me. I know exactly what I said.

Well you said something very similar to that, purposely naive maybe. Something that made no sense anyways.
And you never said anything about anyone trying to create a law as regards peaceful protests.

polesheep

batman_oh wrote: »

I'm not sure what you are implying you creep. But go and get fooked. Its hard to miss a gang of people standing outside a set of shops when you are there

You have a lovely way with words.

billybonkers

So outbreaks in schools have doubled the last two weeks, 12 to 25 to 49. Also conflicting information about how many cases actually reported for schools.....

Good thing mid term is coming

JimToken

polesheep wrote: »

You have a lovely way with words.

Shakespeare in the making

Deusexmachina

D9Male wrote: »

I suspect you know this already, but here goes.

Coronavirus is around 8-10 times more deadly than the common flu. The WHO estimate an IFR of around 0.6%. This is high but not as high as was initially feared.

It is also a health system killer. Sure, most people aged 70 and under will recover without the need for hospitalisation. But left unchecked for a couple of months, we will see scenes like we saw in Northern Italy and New York in the spring. Refrigerator trucks, were used as makeshift morgues. Ships and the lawns of Central Park were converted into hospitals. Countries around the world were running out of ventilators.

I don't understand how obtuse people can be. So we take preventative measures to avoid this, and people think the absence of bodies piled up on the streets means these measures were wrong.

We have a good health system by world standards, but not best in class. So if the hospitals get overrun with Covid19 patients, not only will lots die from the virus, but it will compromise the ability of people like you and I to get proper treatment if we get sick from coronavirus or something else.

Debate the merits of lockdown stategies all you want, but your trite post completely minimises the potential impacts of an unchecked Covid19 increase in Ireland.

I think you may be over doing the drama here.

Ventilators are now required much less in the treatment of patients as doctors have learned more about the virus.

Unless you have a life threatening underlying condition you are really highly unlikely to die from the virus.

Will our hospitals really 'get overrun with Covid 19 patients'? Last time we heard this, we invested millions in booking up private hospital beds only to leave them empty. An over reaction to what we feared could happen but which never materialised (except in our imagination).

Our media tend to focus on the worst case scenarios. Every outbreak, every local spike in infections, all the worst countries. While the scenes from some areas in Northern Italy in March/April were scary, this was not and is not the norm by any means. (I was recently in Rome - it was very relaxed).

We don't hear much about places like Vietnam (where my daughter currently lives) where life is back to normal with no restrictions and hardly any cases at all.

We need some balance to all the hysteria and blanket negativity. Covid 19 is nasty. It is dangerous to old people, those with severely compromised immune systems and the severely obese. They need to be protected.

The rest of us need to get on with living.

Plumbthedepths

eagle eye wrote: »

Well you said something very similar to that, purposely naive maybe. Something that made no sense anyways.
And you never said anything about anyone trying to create a law as regards peaceful protests.

You seem intent on having a row with someone, as I told another poster some time back 'i'm not going to indulge you' Best thing I did was put her on ignore but reluctantly as contary opinion is healthy. Now I have seen you make some sensible comments but if seeking a row is your goal then you are wasting your time.

ceadaoin.

billybonkers wrote: »

So outbreaks in schools have doubled the last two weeks, 12 to 25 to 49. Also conflicting information about how many cases actually reported for schools.....

Good thing mid term is coming

Evidence from the US suggests that schools aren't super spreading locations. Anecdotally, my child has been back at school here for 12 or so weeks and there hasn't been one single case that I know of. They wear masks. It can be done.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/schools-arent-superspreaders/616669/

eagle eye

Plumbthedepths wrote:

You seem intent on having a row with someone, as I told another poster some time back 'i'm not going to indulge you' Best thing I did was put her on ignore but reluctantly as contary opinion is healthy. Now I have seen you make some sensible comments but if seeking a row is your goal then you are wasting your time.

I'm not looking for a row.
I'm just pointing out mistakes.

Plumbthedepths

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not looking for a row.
I'm just pointing out mistakes.

You're not pointing out mistakes , I didn't make any I responded to what another poster had claimed and I provided an example of the government not being able to do what it wants and the reason why.
Have a good evening I won't be responding further.

stephenjmcd

Tracing not a crisis and testing best in Western world... bloody hell
https://twitter.com/McConnellDaniel/status/1318991379788345346?s=19

Boggles

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Tracing not a crisis and testing best in Western world... bloody hell
https://twitter.com/McConnellDaniel/status/1318991379788345346?s=19

Says Tracing issue is not in crisis.
Testing is best in western world.

What is 'fúck off Stephen' in Korean?

Icyseanfitz

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Evidence from the US suggests that schools aren't super spreading locations. Anecdotally, my child has been back at school here for 12 or so weeks and there hasn't been one single case that I know of. They wear masks. It can be done.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/schools-arent-superspreaders/616669/

Aren't the majority of us schools gone fully remote?

Stheno

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Aren't the majority of us schools gone fully remote?

Depends on the State

prunudo

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Tracing not a crisis and testing best in Western world... bloody hell
https://twitter.com/McConnellDaniel/status/1318991379788345346?s=19

Sounds like a tweet straight out of the trump school of politics.

Plumbthedepths

prunudo wrote: »

Sounds like a tweet straight out of the trump school of politics.

Chemical Ali more like.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

What is 'fúck off Stephen' in Korean?

seutibeun kkeojyeo

copeyhagen

Boggles wrote: »

What is 'fúck off Stephen' in Korean?

hes gone full trump

Plumbthedepths

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Chemical Ali more like.

It’s Comical Ali your looking for. Chemical Ali was a different Saddam stooge

ceadaoin.

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Aren't the majority of us schools gone fully remote?

Public schools maybe and that depends on the state. A lot of private schools like the one my child attends are fully open. They even have more students this year as parents have switched to make sure their kids have in person learning. Just another way the less well off are suffering due to shutdowns.

Maestro85

A bit off topic but can someone explain to me what happened to Dave Cullen? I used to find his early videos interesting but the whole lockdown situation seems to have him channelling his inner Alex Jones.

What is this "reset" he is babbling about?

Funsterdelux

Maestro85 wrote: »

A bit off topic but can someone explain to me what happened to Dave Cullen? I used to find his early videos interesting but the whole lockdown situation seems to have him channelling his inner Alex Jones.

What is this "reset" he is babbling about?

Is that a before and after photo?

Maestro85

Maestro85 wrote: »

A bit off topic but can someone explain to me what happened to Dave Cullen? I used to find his early videos interesting but the whole lockdown situation seems to have him channelling his inner Alex Jones.

What is this "reset" he is babbling about?

It's called going for the low hanging fruit.

Post that question in the conspiracy theory forum. But hold onto your head

wirelessdude01

Maestro85 wrote: »

A bit off topic but can someone explain to me what happened to Dave Cullen? I used to find his early videos interesting but the whole lockdown situation seems to have him channelling his inner Alex Jones.

What is this "reset" he is babbling about?

Deserves a thread of its own.

Maestro85

Yeah, sorry folks and mods, more conspiracy thread then covid thread. I find it baffling to be honest. I am noticing a minority of the people I interact with through my job carry diluted or comparable opinions. Worrying since it will just cause the spikes that we are trying to reduce (anti-maskers and the like).

saabsaab

Will there be enough of an improvement in time to go back to level 2 for Christmas.