Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

Witcher

is_that_so wrote: »

Then we have this kind of problem! He's back!

https://twitter.com/Orlaodo/status/1319230279337332736

Lad's like the grim reaper.

nacho libre

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Have read it and its been discussed a few times over different threads. An opinion piece offering nothing but ifs and buts without efficiency data even being published yet.
Everyone knows a vaccine wont end covid, it isn't ending, it'll be an endemic, you'll get your vaccine that should (pending efficency data) reduce the impact therefore reducing pressure on hosptials and normal life begins to resume after time (slowly but surely).

Eventually people will have to wrap their heads around it, it might be a vaccine once a year, maybe every few years, we'll find out.

e.

A considered opinion though based on previous experiences in his field. Your original post was optimistic speculation with not much evidence to support it. Also ,there are lots of people who still believe a vaccine will be a silver bullet, that life will quickly return to normal once we have a vaccine.

patnor1011

Deleted User wrote: »

So you advocate not taking the vaccine?

There is no vaccine out yet.
When there will be one we will see if it works and what it does. By the time it gets to general public many months will pass and more data will be available.

Sconsey

US2 wrote: »

In April the WHO and Dr Tony told us not to wear masks.

It's October and the WHO and Dr Tony are telling us to wear them. You see, more information can lead to better informed decisions, not to mention the fact that there were supply issues for health care workers. You should follow the most recent advice.

If masks work why is retail forced to close ?

If hand washing works why is retail forced to close?

If masks don't work why are we forced to wear them?

Masks do work at reducing the risk of spreading infection. I think you expect them to be a an absolute, they are not, no one with an ounce of sense says they are. The only people pushing that are the anti-mask people.

1641

Sorry if posted already but it is sickening that so many people are just refusing to cooperate with contact tracing:

"Individual calls are taking three and four times as long as they should, because the traced are arguing the toss with their HSE trackers.
And it’s all down to patient privacy and GDPR, that unparalleled refuge of the jobsworth and busybody.
The EU’s data protection regulation, coupled with medical confidentiality, prevents the HSE from identifying the person who has developed Covid when they call close contacts.
This leads to those being called demanding to know who ‘Patient X’ may be, and launching into long rationales about why they need to know the name – so they can form their own judgement about how extensive their contact with that person has been.
The callers then reply that they can’t discuss or disclose the name, but would like you to make an appointment with a GP for a test, and did we mention that you should already be self-isolating?
Very few, however, want to immediately shut down their lives on the basis of an anonymous say-so, so the argument – and bargaining – rages over the phone.
It’s resulting in people declining to co-operate with the recommendation, and going about their business as usual – yet the associate is still marked as having been traced, even if zero benefit to that person or the rest of society comes from it.
But it is also massively extending the duration of phone calls, meaning fewer can be fitted into the working day.
With 400 people at work on tracing, and even 1,000 people testing positive on a given day, and these having five close contracts apiece, the numbers come to 5,000 divided by 400, or just over 12 calls to be made daily. Even if it were twice that number, or even four times that number, it should be manageable in an eight-hour day, should it not?
But no. Calls are long, and their argumentative or even intemperate nature may be feeding into people not wanting to work in tracing, with all the compounding problems that creates.
Many OTs (occupational therapists), physios and others drafted in from the general health service at the height of the crisis have been just gagging to get back to their original jobs, and were out the door as soon as non-Covid treatment began to be restored."
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/how-perfect-storm-of-patient-privacy-long-phone-calls-and-recruitment-issues-is-causing-our-contact-tracing-system-to-fail-39652227.html

political analyst

Given that no visits are allowed and that staff are wearing PPE, how did the virus get into the Galway nursing home? The virus didn't just jump in all by itself.

manniot2

political analyst wrote: »

Given that no visits are allowed and that staff are wearing PPE, how did the virus get into the Galway nursing home? The virus didn't just jump in all by itself.

Because we are wasting our time locking up healthy people instead of focusing on the vulnerable. Crazy.

US2

Boggles wrote: »

So we are back to April.

Listen, I can't compete with whatever fúcking lunatics you choose to populate your twitter or youtube feed with.

So I'm not going, if that's okay.

So you can't answer the question atall.

What's Twitter and YouTube got to do with the questions I asked ?

If masks work why have shops been forced to close ?

US2

Sconsey wrote: »

It's October and the WHO and Dr Tony are telling us to wear them. You see, more information can lead to better informed decisions, not to mention the fact that there were supply issues for health care workers. You should follow the most recent advice.


If hand washing works why is retail forced to close?


Masks do work at reducing the risk of spreading infection. I think you expect them to be a an absolute, they are not, no one with an ounce of sense says they are. The only people pushing that are the anti-mask people.

I'm not anti mask I'm anti safe businesses being forced to close.

Turtwig

political analyst wrote: »

Given that no visits are allowed and that staff are wearing PPE, how did the virus get into the Galway nursing home? The virus didn't just jump in all by itself.

Not the time really but it'll be an interesting case study. Especially if they had stringent infection control measures. Nothing is 100% they could have just got very unlucky: Tainted parcel, compassionate visitor exemption, staff member compromised etc. we could speculate all day. We might never know too. The sad thing is once the virus becomes prevalent in the community this sort of thing becomes inevitable. The virus only needs to succeed once.

greenheep

Did anyone hear George Lee's report on the 1 o'clock news about the tracing fiasco? He said we shouldn't "throw anyone out the window" for this because they are under huge pressure and any country would have struggled with such numbers.

Emm, shouldn't his job be to ask the tough questions and hold the government/hse to account rather than be making excuses for them?

Paddygreen

US2 wrote: »

In April the WHO and Dr Tony told us not to wear masks.

If masks work why is retail forced to close ?

If masks don't work why are we forced to wear them?

People have to be trained to comply with the authorities of course, for the greater good, the science is settled. Mandatory masks today, mandatory vaccines and health passports tomorrow. Thankfully with the rollout of UBI in the pipeline for next year it will be possible to make people comply even further under threat of financial penalties, a bit like the Chinese social credit system that works so well.

Away With The Fairies

is_that_so wrote: »

Then we have this kind of problem! He's back!

https://twitter.com/Orlaodo/status/1319230279337332736

I think he came back in September for the movie that they were making.

Cluedo Monopoly

greenheep wrote: »

Did anyone hear George Lee's report on the 1 o'clock news about the tracing fiasco? He said we shouldn't "throw anyone out the window" for this because they are under huge pressure and any country would have struggled with such numbers.

Emm, shouldn't his job be to ask the tough questions and hold the government/hse to account rather than be making excuses for them?

They failed at the first 2nd wave hurdle. They knew it was coming.
They failed in October. No planning. No contingency.
Why have they got all these prediction models if they cant even grasp the impacts?

weldoninhio

US2 wrote: »

So you can't answer the question atall.

What's Twitter and YouTube got to do with the questions I asked ?

If masks work why have shops been forced to close ?

You won’t get an answer. Just more abuse for daring to question your betters. Same with buses. Carnage this morning apparently with essential workers left waiting for hours, while a double decker can take 17 passengers and a single decker can only take 10.

Sweet.Science

Interesting the UK are doing everything possible to avoid another full lockdown . Listening to the stand podcast and the UK guest said it would be financial armageddon .

All good here though nothing to see. Roll on Dec 2nd

Cluedo Monopoly

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I think he came back in September for the movie that they were making.

They found him floating in the sea off Wexford with 2 bullets in his back...

Funsterdelux

greenheep wrote: »

Did anyone hear George Lee's report on the 1 o'clock news about the tracing fiasco? He said we shouldn't "throw anyone out the window" for this because they are under huge pressure and any country would have struggled with such numbers.

Emm, shouldn't his job be to ask the tough questions and hold the government/hse to account rather than be making excuses for them?

I think he fell for Paul Reid's puppy dog eyed apology

1641

US2 wrote: »

If masks work why have shops been forced to close ?

As has been said repeatedly, masks are no magic shield. They can only mitigate the spread to some extent. You might as well ask, "if hand sanitising works why is the virus still spreading"?

polesheep

bennyineire wrote: »

There is a steel frame of a private hospital that was never built in Tullamore, some of you may have seen it as you drive by the town.

The steel structure is still fine, it is right beside the Midlands Regional Hospital. Just off the M6 and in a central location.

Would it not be prudent of the HSE to purchase this site an build a Covid hospital here ? It appears even with vaccines available we sill still need a to deal with Covid so surly this would make a prefect site for it as it is half built already

I'm sure you are well intentioned, but building facilities in areas of low population is one of the reasons why the health service is such a shambles.

Turtwig

greenheep wrote: »

Did anyone hear George Lee's report on the 1 o'clock news about the tracing fiasco? He said we shouldn't "throw anyone out the window" for this because they are under huge pressure and any country would have struggled with such numbers.

Emm, shouldn't his job be to ask the tough questions and hold the government/hse to account rather than be making excuses for them?

George is the RTÉ science correspondent and I really really REAALLY don't like the way he reports on certain stuff. That said, the job of the journalist is not to ask tough questions for the sake of being tough. It's to ask the questions to investigate and determine the value of truth to something. His conclusion whether we agree with it or not may just be that the system is over pressured. In which case he's perfectly entitled to opine that remark.

Side note : by him sticking up publicly for the tracing teams they'll be more amendable to providing him future info and feedback than if he publicly lynched them.

patnor1011

This lockdown is a comedy gold designed to fail.
They should instead employ 1000's new doctors and nurses rather than putting 240k people out of work.

Boggles

weldoninhio wrote: »

You won’t get an answer. Just more abuse for daring to question your betters.

You mean the vast vast majority of humans who understand the fundamental concept that if you cover your mouth the less stuff can come out of it?

You are openly abusing yourself with your remedial nonsense.

millb

Thierry12 wrote: »

**** sake

Send a few student nurses or something

Good learning experience for those kids

I believe some German care homes facilitated C-19 staff to (isolate in the care home &) also work on with C-19 residents. Sounds like something to consider ..

political analyst

How is the reduction - caused by the lockdonwn - in the amount of money the government receives in taxes supposed to be beneficial to the health service and other public services? It doesn't make sense.

Sconsey

weldoninhio wrote: »

You won’t get an answer. Just more abuse for daring to question your betters. Same with buses. Carnage this morning apparently with essential workers left waiting for hours, while a double decker can take 17 passengers and a single decker can only take 10.

Wow, the guy who lies about having a mental illness so he won't have to wear a mask on a bus is now moaning about the government reducing the capacity on buses.

Maybe if you wore a mask on the bus like you were told to this would not have happened. You are in no position to complain since you go out of your way to lie to avoid the basic safety guidance.

Rx713B

Roads full tilt this morning - know of many un essential workers being told they are working or basically they will be temporarily let go. this lockdown is a waste of time , way too loose.

Eod100

4th NI Executive Minister is self-isolating.

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1319254978037506048

440Hertz

On the tracing calls:

They need to make use of any features on the phone networks to ensure their calls are flagged up correctly. If you display something like HSE COVID TRACE CALL instead of normal caller ID or no caller ID it might get answered.

Half the country won’t answer unrecognised numbers.

is_that_so

1641 wrote: »

Sorry if posted already but it is sickening that so many people are just refusing to cooperate with contact tracing:

"Individual calls are taking three and four times as long as they should, because the traced are arguing the toss with their HSE trackers.
And it’s all down to patient privacy and GDPR, that unparalleled refuge of the jobsworth and busybody.
The EU’s data protection regulation, coupled with medical confidentiality, prevents the HSE from identifying the person who has developed Covid when they call close contacts.
This leads to those being called demanding to know who ‘Patient X’ may be, and launching into long rationales about why they need to know the name – so they can form their own judgement about how extensive their contact with that person has been.
The callers then reply that they can’t discuss or disclose the name, but would like you to make an appointment with a GP for a test, and did we mention that you should already be self-isolating?
Very few, however, want to immediately shut down their lives on the basis of an anonymous say-so, so the argument – and bargaining – rages over the phone.
It’s resulting in people declining to co-operate with the recommendation, and going about their business as usual – yet the associate is still marked as having been traced, even if zero benefit to that person or the rest of society comes from it.
But it is also massively extending the duration of phone calls, meaning fewer can be fitted into the working day.
With 400 people at work on tracing, and even 1,000 people testing positive on a given day, and these having five close contracts apiece, the numbers come to 5,000 divided by 400, or just over 12 calls to be made daily. Even if it were twice that number, or even four times that number, it should be manageable in an eight-hour day, should it not?
But no. Calls are long, and their argumentative or even intemperate nature may be feeding into people not wanting to work in tracing, with all the compounding problems that creates.
Many OTs (occupational therapists), physios and others drafted in from the general health service at the height of the crisis have been just gagging to get back to their original jobs, and were out the door as soon as non-Covid treatment began to be restored."
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/how-perfect-storm-of-patient-privacy-long-phone-calls-and-recruitment-issues-is-causing-our-contact-tracing-system-to-fail-39652227.html

This has been mentioned a few times but good to see it clearly spelt out.

440Hertz

is_that_so wrote: »

This has been mentioned a few times but good to see it clearly spelt out.

People can be unbelievable rude on normal calls to and from contact centres so, it’s not surprising.

JimToken

is_that_so wrote: »

Then we have this kind of problem! He's back!

https://twitter.com/Orlaodo/status/1319230279337332736

She just killed Matt Damon

Away With The Fairies

CruelSummer wrote: »

Can someone explain the logic of people not being allowed to play golf, tennis, heck even swim in a pool full of chlorine. The health benefits of these activities which involve no contact with others far outweigh the benefit of their closure.

I can imagine swimming in a pool might not be an issue but it's the changing rooms. People can't really wear a face mask when wet.

But golf and tennis, if it's outdoors, I really don't understand.

weldoninhio

Boggles wrote: »

You mean the vast vast majority of humans who understand the fundamental concept that if you cover your mouth the less stuff can come out of it?

You are openly abusing yourself with your remedial nonsense.

Wear a mask, doesn't matter how, just wear one. Fit in. Masks help. :rolleyes:


*Dr Kim Roberts of the Trinity College virology department told The Irish Times that while there was some evidence suggesting face masks when worn correctly can have “a modest effect” on reducing transmission of Covid-19, “if not worn correctly, masks can pose as a hazard and can potentially increase the risk of transmission of the virus”.


* US Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams not only wants people to stop buying facemasks to prevent the novel coronavirus, but warns that you actually might increase your risk of infection if facemasks are not worn properly.

"You can increase your risk of getting it by wearing a mask if you are not a health care provider," Adams said during an interview.

"Folks who don't know how to wear them properly tend to touch their faces a lot and actually can increase the spread of coronavirus," Adams said.


*Using a mask incorrectly however, may actually increase the risk of transmission, rather than reduce it.
https://www.who.int/csr/resources/publications/Adviceusemaskscommunityrevised.pdf


*Acting Chief Medical Officer Ronan Glynn says while the level of compliance is encouraging, there are huge risks if people do not wear a mask properly.

"If we can just take the opportunity to remind people that if you are wearing them to wear them properly.

"We are seeing far too many people walking around with them under their chin.

"We are seeing many people wearing them but with their nose exposed.

"Neither of those things provide any protection and indeed may increase the risk."

is_that_so

440Hertz wrote: »

People can be unbelievable rude on normal calls to and from contact centres so, it’s not surprising.

Yeah, HSE person was telling me of the abuse their contact tracers have had.

polesheep

political analyst wrote: »

Given that no visits are allowed and that staff are wearing PPE, how did the virus get into the Galway nursing home? The virus didn't just jump in all by itself.

PPE isn't a guarantee. Infections can occur even in operating theatres.

Akabusi

bennyineire wrote: »

There is a steel frame of a private hospital that was never built in Tullamore, some of you may have seen it as you drive by the town.

The steel structure is still fine, it is right beside the Midlands Regional Hospital. Just off the M6 and in a central location.

Would it not be prudent of the HSE to purchase this site an build a Covid hospital here ? It appears even with vaccines available we sill still need a to deal with Covid so surly this would make a prefect site for it as it is half built already

That frame is up years I wouldn't be confident that it is fine. You do have a good point though with an extra hospital being handy.

SortingYouOut

patnor1011 wrote: »

This lockdown is a comedy gold designed to fail.
They should instead employ 1000's new doctors and nurses rather than putting 240k people out of work.

Where are these 1000's of doctors and nurses that can be employed, I didn't know there was a pool that big just waiting for employment?

The lockdown will only fail due to lack of will on the people's part. It's people that are driving these cases up so we do have to take a collective blame here instead of pointing the finger at the government the whole time.

Sconsey

Sconsey wrote: »

Wow, the guy who lies about having a mental illness so he won't have to wear a mask on a bus is now moaning about the government reducing the capacity on buses.

Maybe if you wore a mask on the bus like you were told to this would not have happened. You are in no position to complain since you go out of your way to lie to avoid the basic safety guidance.

I don't think they are lying about having mental issues going by their posts.

manniot2

Turtwig wrote: »

George is the RTÉ science correspondent and I really really REAALLY don't like the way he reports on certain stuff. That said, the job of the journalist is not to ask tough questions for the sake of being tough. It's to ask the questions to investigate and determine the value of truth to something. His conclusion whether we agree with it or not may just be that the system is over pressured. In which case he's perfectly entitled to opine that remark.

Side note : by him sticking up publicly for the tracing teams they'll be more amendable to providing him future info and feedback than if he publicly lynched them.

A key principle of journalism should be scepticism. Especially when dealing with the establishment. Lee is a lap god for Tony.

polesheep

is_that_so wrote: »

Then we have this kind of problem! He's back!

https://twitter.com/Orlaodo/status/1319230279337332736

The problem is that Orla O'Donnell (whoever she is) and her followers think that's worthy of being discussed.

What Username Guidelines

is_that_so wrote: »

Yeah, HSE person was telling me of the abuse their contact tracers have had.

What sort of abuse are they getting? I saw a headline similar in the independent, but it was a paywalled article.

Roger_007

Rx713B wrote: »

Roads full tilt this morning - know of many un essential workers being told they are working or basically they will be temporarily let go. this lockdown is a waste of time , way too loose.

The heavy traffic on the roads could be loads of people visiting graves?

is_that_so

polesheep wrote: »

The problem is that Orla O'Donnell (whoever she is) and her followers think that's worthy of being discussed.

Poster with SOHF on Day 1 of Level 5!

is_that_so

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

What sort of abuse are they getting? I saw a headline similar in the independent, but it was a paywalled article.

Told where to shove it was one example.

circadian

Hector Savage wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-india-54630863

Good to see them busy as ever in hospitals, and yes I am aware this is in India but there are countless videos from the UK of doctors and nurses pouncing about making tick tock videos ...

I'm failing to see the problem. Care to elaborate?

polesheep

Turtwig wrote: »

George is the RTÉ science correspondent and I really really REAALLY don't like the way he reports on certain stuff. That said, the job of the journalist is not to ask tough questions for the sake of being tough. It's to ask the questions to investigate and determine the value of truth to something. His conclusion whether we agree with it or not may just be that the system is over pressured. In which case he's perfectly entitled to opine that remark.

Side note : by him sticking up publicly for the tracing teams they'll be more amendable to providing him future info and feedback than if he publicly lynched them.

No, his opinion is irrelevant. He should be reporting that the HSE state that they are under pressure. He should be impartial and objective. He is clearly neither.

JimToken

Got this stopped this morning

Told garda i was calling to the pharmacy for a health product on my way to the graveyard

Got waved on

JDD

Do you think that everyone who went to the shops between July and yesterday drove there, popped in for five minutes, picked what they wanted and drove home?

Pre-covid, I would have got on a full Luas and headed to the shops in Dundrum Town Centre. No masks, no standing back from people except where politeness dictates. I'd meet friends, eat in a cafe etc etc.

Post covid, but pre-masks, well Dundrum Town Centre was closed. But applying what it was like in my local supermarket, it was like playing a pinball machine game. Constantly vigilant about how close you might be standing to someone who might be behind or beside you, not going down an aisle that looked too full, weaving in and out around the supermarket before getting the fluck out of there as it was such a pain in the *ss. I'm not hypochondriac or am overestimating the risk of getting covid, but I didn't want to get it, I knew there were infections in my area, I knew the disease was airborne and it just felt like you were taking a big risk by being in there any longer than you had to be.

Post mask was a lot easier. I'm not saying I suddenly crowded everyone, or didn't weave a bit, but it felt like there was probably a lot less of the virus circulating in the air. And the science does bear that out. Cloth masks don't filter out coronavirus particles contained in aerosol droplets, that's true. But they do filter out breathing out large droplets that you may breath in if you are closer that 2m to someone.

That being said, it's not like I was exposing myself to zero risk. I took the luas to Dundrum, touched common surfaces, brought my kids to McDonalds, wandered in and out of lots of shops, met my mother for lunch (outside), stood in queues, picked up books to read the back, and probably wandered through lots of coronavirus aerosol clouds, just not enough to get infected. No way would I have felt comfortable to do that without everyone wearing masks.

Summary: Even with masks, shopping is not zero risk. And with high community transmission, even with masks, the risk is higher. It is not only the act of buying a product, it's travelling there and back, browsing, bringing unmasked children and providing an opportunity for further social contact that makes it necessary to close retail.

polesheep

1641 wrote: »

Sorry if posted already but it is sickening that so many people are just refusing to cooperate with contact tracing:

"Individual calls are taking three and four times as long as they should, because the traced are arguing the toss with their HSE trackers.
And it’s all down to patient privacy and GDPR, that unparalleled refuge of the jobsworth and busybody.
The EU’s data protection regulation, coupled with medical confidentiality, prevents the HSE from identifying the person who has developed Covid when they call close contacts.
This leads to those being called demanding to know who ‘Patient X’ may be, and launching into long rationales about why they need to know the name – so they can form their own judgement about how extensive their contact with that person has been.
The callers then reply that they can’t discuss or disclose the name, but would like you to make an appointment with a GP for a test, and did we mention that you should already be self-isolating?
Very few, however, want to immediately shut down their lives on the basis of an anonymous say-so, so the argument – and bargaining – rages over the phone.
It’s resulting in people declining to co-operate with the recommendation, and going about their business as usual – yet the associate is still marked as having been traced, even if zero benefit to that person or the rest of society comes from it.
But it is also massively extending the duration of phone calls, meaning fewer can be fitted into the working day.
With 400 people at work on tracing, and even 1,000 people testing positive on a given day, and these having five close contracts apiece, the numbers come to 5,000 divided by 400, or just over 12 calls to be made daily. Even if it were twice that number, or even four times that number, it should be manageable in an eight-hour day, should it not?
But no. Calls are long, and their argumentative or even intemperate nature may be feeding into people not wanting to work in tracing, with all the compounding problems that creates.
Many OTs (occupational therapists), physios and others drafted in from the general health service at the height of the crisis have been just gagging to get back to their original jobs, and were out the door as soon as non-Covid treatment began to be restored."
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/how-perfect-storm-of-patient-privacy-long-phone-calls-and-recruitment-issues-is-causing-our-contact-tracing-system-to-fail-39652227.html

Actually I find it quite shocking that people are being asked to put their lives on hold and possibly their income too, without being able to confirm for themselves that it is, in fact, necessary.