Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

Happydays2020

Kivaro wrote: »

That's RTE for you.
I can guarantee that your mental health will radically improve if you stop watching RTE. You can easily catch up on the news online without the need to watch the purveyors of doom at RTE.
Life is too short to spend it hooked watching and listening to the constant stream of negativity from our national broadcaster. They are doing our country a major disservice.

I think they should lose public broadcaster status. Be forced to bid for public service broadcasting funds (available to all) and sell their prime land in Donnybrook for social housing purposes only and maybe a small hospital, while moving to a purpose built small facility in Ballymount.

WoollyRedHat

I was thinking, as much of a hames our officials have made of things, I'm sure as hell glad we don't live in Belgium, France, Italy, Czech Republic, Slovakia or Spain right now, where things are going south. Hopefully we can go into winter months with limited damage.

boardise

Wombatman wrote: »

Is it pronounced Enfet or Neffet?

I'll go with Enfet ---because they have the whole country enfettered.

Steve F

Happydays2020 wrote: »

I think they should lose public broadcaster status. Be forced to bid for public service broadcasting funds (available to all) and sell their prime land in Donnybrook for social housing purposes only and maybe a small hospital, while moving to a purpose built small facility in Ballymount.

There was a rumour that the joke of a news channel "RTE News Now" was to be shut down a year or two ago.
No chance of that now

CIARAN_BOYLE

Happydays2020 wrote: »

What is more effective? Mask at 1 metre social distance or no mask at 2 metres social distance.

I'd say 2 metre social distancing.

I'd guess there might be a tie between 1.5 metres with a mask vs 2 metre with a mask but I'm only guessing here.

harr

Really can’t see schools returning from midterm as planned. A lot of cases in a lot of schools the last week that’s going by the parents alert page on Facebook.
Both the schools my kids go to have hinted strongly that they could be closing for an extended period.
All school books being sent home tomorrow and log in details for on line resources .
Yes it could only be precautionary but it looks like a strong possibility at this stage .

US2

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

Very mature attitude.

I know you're trying to be smart, but it actually is a mature attitude to get on with life. An imature attitude is hiding under your bed

boardise

Feisar wrote: »

Not to bothered by the rules this time. They don’t apply to our elected officials so it’s a “nah yer grand” from me this time. Seems the rules don’t apply if yer attending a funeral of, what was it, someone you greatly respected. Golf for others etc.

For accuracy can I point out that what happened in Clifden was not to do with the playing of golf. Golf was controlled but not restricted then . Some played and went home e.g. Enda Kenny ...no issue.
The problem arose with the breach of the indoor number limit at the dinner afterwards.
There's no reason to be hanging a bad rap on golf when it could have been any sporting event.

podgeandrodge

Omari Prehistoric Truth wrote: »

He's absolutely ridiculous.

The whole panel is painting an incredibly depressing picture. They're all discounting the possibility of vaccines coming soon.

There was something earlier today saying the current vaccines on the way might only be 30% effective or prevent 30% of infections or something. Seemed a little disappointing in terms of it being a game changer. Maybe 30% is enough to get things under control enough, dunno.

Steve F

podgeandrodge wrote: »

There was something earlier today saying the current vaccines on the way might only be 30% effective or prevent 30% of infections or something. Seemed a little disappointing in terms of it being a game changer. Maybe 30% is enough to get things under control enough, dunno.

Yeah...recall something along those lines.
Keep in mind some experts claim the 'flu vaccine offer 30 to 50% protection too

majcos

Zebra3 wrote: »

Yet we had a massive panic over it in the 80s and early 90s.

Fear all over the media. Concerts raising huge sums of money.

Phenomenal virtue signaling opportunities too.

Freddie Mercury dying, absolutely milked to death by vested interests.

In the early 80s, 50% of people who contracted AIDs died before treatments were developed. It was an absolutely devastating diagnosis, hence the fear was justified. 14 million people died of it by 1999.

With treatments, that mortality rate has dropped and it has become a long term illness more like diabetes in developed countries for those that have access to treatments and specialist care and now has a life expectancy in those countries which is near to the that of the general population.

In third world countries, however, the story is still very different. Of babies born with HIV who don’t receive treatment, half of them will be dead before the age of 2. It has had a massive impact on life expectancy in many African countries. Life expectancy dropped by 25-30 years in some of those countries. Rates of new infection are dropping in recent years but it still accounts for about 8% of all deaths and was the leading cause of death there until 2017.

Roger_007

harr wrote: »

Really can’t see schools returning from midterm as planned. A lot of cases in a lot of schools the last week that’s going by the parents alert page on Facebook.
Both the schools my kids go to have hinted strongly that they could be closing for an extended period.
All school books being sent home tomorrow and log in details for on line resources .
Yes it could only be precautionary but it looks like a strong possibility at this stage .

The government supported by NPHET seem determined to keep the schools open no matter what. I can understand why they want to do that and I personally have no problem with keeping them open.
What they should not be doing is denying that there is any significant transmission within schools and most cases that do occur in children are are happening in their homes. It is completely illogical to claim that children can be infected in their homes but not in their schools.
In children, Covid should be regarded as just another bug that kids get and shake off without too much bother. To claim that they don’t get it and transmit it in school is just implausible.

Martina1991

The GAA GPA want a number of safety measures in place before the championship start including mandatory testing.

RTE have reported:
"Counties can request testing from Croke Park, which several counties have availed of in the past weeks, but concerns have been raised in come quarters about a lack of mandatory testing as you see in other sports such as soccer and rugby."

So it looks like only a few county boards sought testing to date as opposed to it being mandatory.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/1022/1173212-gpa-demand-covid-testing-at-earliest-possible-date/

Ms2011

harr wrote: »

Really can’t see schools returning from midterm as planned. A lot of cases in a lot of schools the last week that’s going by the parents alert page on Facebook.
Both the schools my kids go to have hinted strongly that they could be closing for an extended period.
All school books being sent home tomorrow and log in details for on line resources .
Yes it could only be precautionary but it looks like a strong possibility at this stage .

Not really far on the kids and schools who haven't had a single case as with my kids school.
I think a school by school case would be better than just lumping all the schools in together and just shutting them all down regardless.

hotmail.com

The hour change of the clock should be cancelled.

spookwoman

Hospital bed info for confirmed and Suspected Critical Care cases missing from the HSE operations report night. https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/covid-19-daily-operations-update-20-00-22-october-2020.pdf

lawred2

harr wrote: »

Really can’t see schools returning from midterm as planned. A lot of cases in a lot of schools the last week that’s going by the parents alert page on Facebook.
Both the schools my kids go to have hinted strongly that they could be closing for an extended period.
All school books being sent home tomorrow and log in details for on line resources .
Yes it could only be precautionary but it looks like a strong possibility at this stage .

Facebook

Christ

Atlantic Dawn

Dud hand sanitiser closes schools...

Tests by the Department show that some of the sanitiser on sale does not comply with regulations "governing the content and efficacy of such products".

"Some of the product contains methanol rather than ethanol. Prolonged use of such sanitiser may cause dermatitis, eye irritation, upper respiratory system irritation and headaches," the Department of Agriculture said.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1022/1173344-school-hand-sanitiser/

majcos

Roger_007 wrote: »

The government supported by NPHET seem determined to keep the schools open no matter what. I can understand why they want to do that and I personally have no problem with keeping them open.
What they should not be doing is denying that there is any significant transmission within schools and most cases that do occur in children are are happening in their homes. It is completely illogical to claim that children can be infected in their homes but not in their schools.
In children, Covid should be regarded as just another bug that kids get and shake off without too much bother. To claim that they don’t get it and transmit it in school is just implausible.

Positivity rate in school children 2-3% versus positivity rate in general population of about 7%.

Percentage of Covid cases in school aged children before schools reopened was 14.3% and since schools reopened is 14.1%.

They are not getting it at any higher rate in the schools than they were without schools. Positivity rate is still lower in school children than it is in general population so increase in cases in schools is because of increase in rates overall not because schools have increased it.

bfa1509

Kivaro wrote: »

That's RTE for you.
I can guarantee that your mental health will radically improve if you stop watching RTE. You can easily catch up on the news online without the need to watch the purveyors of doom at RTE.
Life is too short to spend it hooked watching and listening to the constant stream of negativity from our national broadcaster. They are doing our country a major disservice.

RTE must have read your post. For the first time in the 9 months of coronavirus they had a man with a dissenting opinion that didn't fall in line with RTE and, more specifically, George Lee's apocalyptic agenda they have been peddling relentlessly. (a side note on this, George Lee is a complete and utter poison. I hope one day the history books will expose him for the vile, unscientific fear-monger he has been throughout his career, especially in the last 5 years on the "climate crisis" and Covid19)

I reluctantly give RTE some credit here for finally having a somewhat diverse, constructive and frank debate about the topic this evening. Hopefully it continues. For anyone who didn't see, here's a very interesting snippet from Professor John Lee, a retired consultant pathologist from Sheffield and the NHS who explains the futility of a lockdown:

Cluedo Monopoly

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

I was thinking, as much of a hames our officials have made of things, I'm sure as hell glad we don't live in Belgium, France, Italy, Czech Republic, Slovakia or Spain right now, where things are going south. Hopefully we can go into winter months with limited damage.

To be fair to front line health workers, every winter is a bit of a nightmare at work. People are more concerned about it this winter because it will go from bad to worse. The nurses and doctors deserved better long before Covid came along.

November 2019....

https://www.inmo.ie/Home/Index/217/13549

2019 has seen the highest number of patients on trolleys in any year since records began – despite it still being November.

As of today, 108,364 people have gone without beds in 2019 so far – breaking 2018’s record high of 108,227, with a full month left to go in the year.

INMO General Secretary, Phil Ní Sheaghdha, said:

“Winter has only just begun and the record is already broken. These statistics are the hallmark of a wildly bureaucratic health service, which is failing staff and patients alike.

“We take no pleasure in having to record these figures for a decade and a half. We know the problem, but we also know the solutions: extra beds in hospitals, safe staffing levels, and more step-down and community care outside of the hospital.

“No other developed country faces anything close to this trolley problem. It can be solved, but a strong political agenda to drive change is needed.

“The INMO has written to the health and safety authorities this week to try force a change from the employers. Hospitals should be a place of safety and care – not danger.”

The decades of FF & FG ignoring the problem will cost us dearly.

spookwoman

School in County Roscommon closing because no one from HSE called them back when they reported a case.
https://roscommonherald.ie/2020/10/22/county-roscommon-primary-school-to-close-tomorrow-after-covid-case/

majcos

spookwoman wrote: »

Hospital bed info for confirmed and Suspected Critical Care cases missing from the HSE operations report night. https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/covid-19-daily-operations-update-20-00-22-october-2020.pdf

Yes. The individual hospital ICU numbers for confirmed and suspected Covid cases not included but total ICU figures show 37 confirmed Covid cases with 21 of those ventilated. 14 suspected Covid cases with 5 of those ventilated.

spookwoman

majcos wrote: »

Yes. The individual hospital ICU numbers for confirmed and suspected Covid cases not included but total ICU figures show 37 confirmed Covid cases with 21 of those ventilated. 14 suspected Covid cases with 5 of those ventilated.

Private hospitals also removed from the list the last few days.

Icyseanfitz

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Dud hand sanitiser closes schools...

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1022/1173344-school-hand-sanitiser/

:mad: methanol poisoning is really serious **** :mad: how did this pass for use for our children ffs.

Richard Hillman

spookwoman wrote: »

School in County Roscommon closing because no one from HSE called them back when they reported a case.
https://roscommonherald.ie/2020/10/22/county-roscommon-primary-school-to-close-tomorrow-after-covid-case/

I honestly think they are trying to artificially quell the school cases. My friends child was in a pod with a Covid child, they all were supposed to get tested along with the families but have been ignored for about a week now.

MOR316

https://twitter.com/franmcnulty/status/1319400403088400385

WoollyRedHat

Can someone clarify, are we doing prospective or retrospective tracing currently?

majcos

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I honestly think they are trying to artificially quell the school cases. My friends child was in a pod with a Covid child, they all were supposed to get tested along with the families but have been ignored for about a week now.

If that was the case, the positivity rate would be higher in school age groups than the general population and not the other way round.

Away With The Fairies

harr wrote: »

Really can’t see schools returning from midterm as planned. A lot of cases in a lot of schools the last week that’s going by the parents alert page on Facebook.
Both the schools my kids go to have hinted strongly that they could be closing for an extended period.
All school books being sent home tomorrow and log in details for on line resources .
Yes it could only be precautionary but it looks like a strong possibility at this stage .

It's so sad that they really haven't a clue and nobody has a clue what way it will go. They had the summer to prepare for a blended approach but they would rather cram in students into classrooms and say everything is ok when it clearly isn't.

HeyV

MOR316 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/franmcnulty/status/1319400403088400385

Anyone have an image of what this looks like? I’m useless for remembering names but a visual, I can remember

Icyseanfitz

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

:mad: methanol poisoning is really serious **** :mad: how did this pass for use for our children ffs.

guys in our gym have had spray all over the weights for weeks.
I read the back and it states clearly, on contact with skin...wash immediately.


Sure look into Quaternary ammonium compounds if you really have time..that will be worse than anything, we'll all end up with asthma!

majcos

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Can someone clarify, are we doing prospective or retrospective tracing currently?

Is all tracing not retrospective from the index case?

Cases that had not been contact traced up to two days ago are being left to alert contacts themselves. The system was ‘reset’ so that HSE tracers are dealing with more recent cases. Terrible that they had fallen behind but the idea of a reset is logical.

If they kept trying to deal with backlog and did not catch up with recent cases, the tracers would be spending time with people whose contacts if positive had already exposed their contacts. If catch and trace more recent cases, then there is opportunity to limit the exposure of the contacts to others before that exposure occurs or if positive, while they are still less likely to be infectious.

awec

It seems every day we get some tweet about some place having x number of cases, which is the highest ever number or since the first wave, or yer one talking about it being 100 times more likely you'll catch it now.

Surely, given that testing was a total shambles during wave 1 (remember when you had to display multiple symptoms to even be considered for a test) the real numbers were a lot higher, so comparing case numbers between then and now is impossible? The only thing we can reliably compare is hospitalisations, and even that is a bit dodgy cause at the very start anyone who had it was hospitalised irrespective of how serious they were.

whisky_galore

hotmail.com wrote: »

The hour change of the clock should be cancelled.

That's the least of our worries.

MelbourneMan

awec wrote: »

It seems every day we get some tweet about some place having x number of cases, which is the highest ever number or since the first wave, or yer one talking about it being 100 times more likely you'll catch it now.

Surely, given that testing was a total shambles during wave 1 (remember when you had to display multiple symptoms to even be considered for a test) the real numbers were a lot higher, so comparing case numbers between then and now is impossible? The only thing we can reliably compare is hospitalisations, and even that is a bit dodgy cause at the very start anyone who had it was hospitalised irrespective of how serious they were.

Hello Ian. Broadly you are correct. For Ireland, the figures indicate that reported cases in the spring were approximately one third of the actual number. I have not studied the equivalent ratio for Ulster, but without quoting me, I feel it is probably similar.

s1ippy

As well as sealing the mother and baby home documents, the government also voted today that the eviction ban won't be extended until after the lockdown. So if you're kicked out the day after, you're still gone.

As someone who was evicted recently, the rental market is absolutely shocking right now. It's no joke trying to find somewhere. Where we're living now is falling apart really but we had no choice.

majcos

HeyV wrote: »

Anyone have an image of what this looks like? I’m useless for remembering names but a visual, I can remember

This brand in a variety of sizes.

Curious_Case

awec wrote: »

It seems every day we get some tweet about some place having x number of cases, which is the highest ever number or since the first wave, or yer one talking about it being 100 times more likely you'll catch it now.

Surely, given that testing was a total shambles during wave 1 (remember when you had to display multiple symptoms to even be considered for a test) the real numbers were a lot higher, so comparing case numbers between then and now is impossible? The only thing we can reliably compare is hospitalisations, and even that is a bit dodgy cause at the very start anyone who had it was hospitalised irrespective of how serious they were.

Exactly, it's like saying "ever since I got my new glasses the windows have been dirtier"

Funsterdelux

awec wrote: »

It seems every day we get some tweet about some place having x number of cases, which is the highest ever number or since the first wave, or yer one talking about it being 100 times more likely you'll catch it now.

Surely, given that testing was a total shambles during wave 1 (remember when you had to display multiple symptoms to even be considered for a test) the real numbers were a lot higher, so comparing case numbers between then and now is impossible? The only thing we can reliably compare is hospitalisations, and even that is a bit dodgy cause at the very start anyone who had it was hospitalised irrespective of how serious they were.

The 100 times more likely to catch it was comparing June to now.

Antares35

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

It's being widened significantly from tomorrow.

In terms of the geographical area it applies to? I think it was just the greater region of Paris to start with alright. OHs family there. His mother is living alone and has underlying conditions. She hasn't met our baby yet either. This while thing is so wearing at times too

Happydays2020

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can anyone recommend a safe and reliable sanitizer. Jesus things are bad enough without having to worry about dodgy sanitizer and methanol poisoning.

I've been using this

https://www.google.com/search?q=Hydropur+Gel+Mains+60ml+Spray&sxsrf=ALeKk03OkN68E_ndw5suWI_uH51lP23kdA:1603407380078&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj698b6pcnsAhVmURUIHSecBYcQ_AUoAXoECAsQAw&biw=1366&bih=657#imgrc=Z-qPC3YG84NsZM

Handmade soap company. https://thehandmadesoapcompany.ie/products/hand-sanitiser-lemongrass-cedarwood-100ml?variant=31941804130367&currency=EUR&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxJXR6abJ7AIVmpntCh3BRAYAEAQYAiABEgIIp_D_BwE

majcos

awec wrote: »

It seems every day we get some tweet about some place having x number of cases, which is the highest ever number or since the first wave, or yer one talking about it being 100 times more likely you'll catch it now.

Surely, given that testing was a total shambles during wave 1 (remember when you had to display multiple symptoms to even be considered for a test) the real numbers were a lot higher, so comparing case numbers between then and now is impossible? The only thing we can reliably compare is hospitalisations, and even that is a bit dodgy cause at the very start anyone who had it was hospitalised irrespective of how serious they were.

Yes. You are right. Comparisons of overall cases numbers are flawed when criteria used to decide who is tested is different. One thousand cases now is probably the equivalent of a few thousand cases in April. But comparison of being 100 times more likely to catch it now was made based on June figures when testing was more widely available versus now.

Hospitalizations are a better comparison but also there are still some differences. It was only for a very short period that everyone was hospitalized. That was quickly stopped as numbers rapidly climbed. Relatively sicker people are discharged now with home monitoring so the relative number of hospitalisations now should be lower.

Probably the most accurate comparison is ICU admissions. Differences in this cohort are much less. Anyone admitted to ICU even in April was tested. Broadly the same criteria will lead to someone being in ICU now as it did six months ago.

Happydays2020

I saw the Schedule for the late late tomorrow and was actually tempted to watch it - https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2020/1022/1173287-fridays-late-late-show-line-up-revealed/

Then I saw that Holohan will be in so that is a definite tune out. Not that I don’t believe there is a problem but that I need to turn off at some stage.

awec

Funsterdelux wrote: »

The 100 times more likely to catch it was comparing June to now.

But in June we were still essentially locked down. Social activities, cafes, restaurants etc didn't come until the very end of June.

Again I don't think it's a fair comparison.

10000maniacs

bfa1509 wrote: »

RTE must have read your post. For the first time in the 9 months of coronavirus they had a man with a dissenting opinion that didn't fall in line with RTE and, more specifically, George Lee's apocalyptic agenda they have been peddling relentlessly. (a side note on this, George Lee is a complete and utter poison. I hope one day the history books will expose him for the vile, unscientific fear-monger he has been throughout his career, especially in the last 5 years on the "climate crisis" and Covid19)

I reluctantly give RTE some credit here for finally having a somewhat diverse, constructive and frank debate about the topic this evening. Hopefully it continues. For anyone who didn't see, here's a very interesting snippet from Professor John Lee, a retired consultant pathologist from Sheffield and the NHS who explains the futility of a lockdown:

He is pulling figures out of the air. These are the facts.

Arghus

10000maniacs wrote: »

He is pulling figures out of the air. These are the facts.

Yep, saw the interview. He was talking absolute bollocks. Couldn't believe I was hearing him spouting off the same totally incorrect talking points that you'll hear repeated ad-nauseum off random ejits on the internet. Kinda stunning really.

awec

majcos wrote: »

Yes. You are right. Comparisons of overall cases numbers are flawed when criteria used to decide who is tested is different. One thousand cases now is probably the equivalent of a few thousand cases in April.

Hospitalizations are a better comparison but also there are still some differences. It was only for a very short period that everyone was hospitalized. That was quickly stopped as numbers rapidly climbed. Relatively sicker people are discharged now with home monitoring so the relative number of hospitalisations now should be lower.

Probably the most accurate comparison is ICU admissions. Differences in this cohort are much less. Anyone admitted to ICU even in April was tested. Broadly the same criteria will lead to someone being in ICU now as it did six months ago.

Hasn't there also been changes in how it's treated though? In terms of what drugs are given, but also around putting people on ventilators? Did they not figure that ventilators may actually be detrimental for patients?

Genuine question, not trying to subtly make a point.

If that were the case, then there were likely people who ended up in ICU in April who would not end up in ICU today, given what we've learnt about the best ways to deal with this virus.

CalamariFritti

10000maniacs wrote: »

He is pulling figures out of the air. These are the facts.

As much as he is pulling numbers out of thin air - which he isn't by the way, he is referring to WHO numbers - the only thing you know about your numbers is that they certainly aren't correct.

10000maniacs

CalamariFritti wrote: »

As much as he is pulling numbers out of thin air - which he isn't by the way, he is referring to WHO numbers - the only thing you know about your numbers is that they certainly aren't correct.

One thing China has is good scientists.
Based on all 72,314 cases of COVID-19 confirmed, suspected, and asymptomatic cases in China as of February 11, a paper by the Chinese CCDC released on February 17 and published in the Chinese Journal of Epidemiology has found that the risk of death increases the older you are, as follows: