Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

I was listening to an interview on Claire Byrne this morning, about the debacle of a sudden school closure at midnight due to an inadequate provision of safe hand sanitiser. Are you kidding me. That a single teacher couldn't travel to a local shop and purchase a few bottles of a different brand. Or would the claim back in expenses be too awkward. I stop short of a culture of entitlement, but contrast that to the genuine crisis that developed in the nursing home in east Galway. One care assistant had to keep the place afloat for several days without adequate support. What the hell is wrong with this country.

OwenM

Kivaro wrote: »

Out of curiously, why isn't there a correlation between the re-opening of schools and universities in Ireland with the recent sharp increase in Covid cases ..... like they are admitting in Poland, the US, etc.? Or are the authorities here in denial?

Drawing conclusions from that (or any other) correlation where many other variables are at play isn't sound IMO.

The other major factor would be the weather, people are closing windows in houses and not gathering in gardens because it is colder so we are seeing a seasonal rise in infectivity.

suicide_circus

HBC08 wrote: »

I haven't wanted a group to get a battering off the Gards as much since Landsdowne in 95

As bad as they are, they are a symptom of a healthy society with it's ying and yang still functioning. The day that no one protests the erosion of liberty (no matter how necessary) will be a sad one.

10000maniacs

CalamariFritti wrote: »

It must be me. Because what you're saying makes no sense to me.

China says China has 80k infected and 4k deaths.

WHO is saying China has 800k (or even 1.5m) infected and 4k deaths.

Easy to not know about infected. Not so easy to overlook deaths. Deaths stays the same.

Edit: I like the username btw. Had an album from them that I loved.

This is junior certificate statistical analysis level.
1: Sample = 79k people infected with Covid-19.
2: Follow the trajectory of each persons illness and recovery or death and record it.
3: Put the data into a spreadsheet.
4: Run the data model algorithm.

All the stuff you mentioned is deflection and nonsense. The sample that the scientists used is 79k infected people. Were there any more deaths or infections in China in February?, Probably.
But that's irrelevant to the scientists findings, because the study was carried out on those 79K people only.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Deleted User wrote: »

I was listening to an interview on Claire Byrne this morning, about the debacle of a sudden school closure at midnight due to an inadequate provision of safe hand sanitiser. Are you kidding me. That a single teacher couldn't travel to a local shop and purchase a few bottles of a different brand. Or would the claim back in expenses be too awkward. I stop short of a culture of entitlement, but contrast that to the genuine crisis that developed in the nursing home in east Galway. One care assistant had to keep the place afloat for several days without adequate support. What the hell is wrong with this country.

Department of education only allow equipment like hand sanitizer from certain suppliers. They revoked the approval for one of them yesterday. They aren't allowed just purchase other hand sanitizer.

I do agree it's a crazy system.

Widdensushi

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Speaking of hospitals on another thread

310 yesterday
31 admissions
24 discharges
311 today

Presuming 6 deaths but it might not be.

Once it gets in to nursing homes the deaths shoot up, I realise that many of the nursing homes patients don't get to hospital.

Funsterdelux

The Oxford Blavatnik School Covid stringency index shows in Europe that while the U.K. and Ireland are at tough restriction levels they’re nowhere near April/May.

mcburns07

bb1234567 wrote: »

Looks really like L3 has stabilised hospitalisations but maybe it's too early to tell?
Wonder if we may see an earlier exit from L5 if that's the case, Israel ended it's second lockdown earlier than expected as cases dropped faster than was predicted

You really think NPHET are going to allow that? The 6 week timeline has been established now, they'll milk it for all it's worth, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to extend it a week or two to really get the numbers down.

is_that_so

mcburns07 wrote: »

You really think NPHET are going to allow that? The 6 week timeline has been established now, they'll milk it for all it's worth, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to extend it a week or two to really get the numbers down.

This is almost a given, based on past evidence. One gets the impression they really didn't want to give any metrics at all.

mcburns07

is_that_so wrote: »

This is almost a given, based on past evidence. One gets the impression they really didn't want to give any metrics at all.

Here's a metric for you

Risk of exposure to Covid-19 is 100 times higher than in June

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1023/1173372-coronavirus-ireland/

Run for your lives

is_that_so

mcburns07 wrote: »

Here's a metric for you

Risk of exposure to Covid-19 is 100 times higher than in June

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1023/1173372-coronavirus-ireland/

Run for your lives

Yeah but it was about 1 in 20,000 back then! Don't mind them putting the frighteners on with that, some people are not listening.

Herb Powell

Deleted User wrote: »

I was listening to an interview on Claire Byrne this morning, about the debacle of a sudden school closure at midnight due to an inadequate provision of safe hand sanitiser. Are you kidding me. That a single teacher couldn't travel to a local shop and purchase a few bottles of a different brand. Or would the claim back in expenses be too awkward. I stop short of a culture of entitlement, but contrast that to the genuine crisis that developed in the nursing home in east Galway. One care assistant had to keep the place afloat for several days without adequate support. What the hell is wrong with this country.

Yes, workers should be personally financing the safety of their workplace when their employer fails to provide adequately.

:rolleyes:

Get absolutely fuccked

tom1ie

suicide_circus wrote: »

As bad as they are, they are a symptom of a healthy society with it's ying and yang still functioning. The day that no one protests the erosion of liberty (no matter how necessary) will be a sad one.

Where and when was this protest?

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

I was listening to an interview on Claire Byrne this morning, about the debacle of a sudden school closure at midnight due to an inadequate provision of safe hand sanitiser. Are you kidding me. That a single teacher couldn't travel to a local shop and purchase a few bottles of a different brand. Or would the claim back in expenses be too awkward. I stop short of a culture of entitlement, but contrast that to the genuine crisis that developed in the nursing home in east Galway. One care assistant had to keep the place afloat for several days without adequate support. What the hell is wrong with this country.

Name one shop that would sell a crate of approved sanitizer at 11pm?

KaneToad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I was listening to an interview on Claire Byrne this morning, about the debacle of a sudden school closure at midnight due to an inadequate provision of safe hand sanitiser. Are you kidding me. That a single teacher couldn't travel to a local shop and purchase a few bottles of a different brand. Or would the claim back in expenses be too awkward. I stop short of a culture of entitlement, but contrast that to the genuine crisis that developed in the nursing home in east Galway. One care assistant had to keep the place afloat for several days without adequate support. What the hell is wrong with this country.

If a hand sanitizer was purchased locally by a teacher and little Johnny used it and got an allergic reaction - who do you think would be hung out to dry? It's the few parents that would be the problem. Incidentally, I'm not a teacher!

There is a reason why procurement of stuff follows a process. Although I do appreciate the irony - it was done 'properly' this time and they still made a balls of it.

manniot2

They have given a metric of 0.5 which they know is close to impossible with schools open and the weather bad. They will drag beyond 01 December and then bribe us with opening xmas week if we stay locked down for a few more weeks to get to 0.5

Boggles

KaneToad wrote: »

If a hand sanitizer was purchased locally by a teacher and little Johnny used it and got an allergic reaction - who do you think would be hung out to dry? It's the few parents that would be the problem. Incidentally, I'm not a teacher!

There is a reason why procurement of stuff follows a process. Although I do appreciate the irony - it was done 'properly' this time and they still made a balls of it.

The product was recalled Tuesday, the first most heard of it was via social media late last night.

But yeah, it's the teachers fault. :rolleyes:

There is going to be a lot of ward closures in the next couple of weeks. I fear for the secondary deaths.

NIMAN

manniot2 wrote: »

They have given a metric of 0.5 which they know is close to impossible with schools open and the weather bad. They will drag beyond 01 December and then bribe us with opening xmas week if we stay locked down for a few more weeks to get to 0.5

It will take very brave politicians to extend this level 5 beyond 1st December.

I think it would be political suicide.

As for our ability to get the R down to 0.5, I don't think we are going to manage it. Still far too busy on the roads and city centres for that too happen.

jam_mac_jam

Herb Powell wrote: »

Yes, workers should be personally financing the safety of their workplace when their employer fails to provide adequately.

:rolleyes:

Get absolutely fuccked

A suggestion that someone buys a couple of bottles of sanitizer "get absolutely ****ed".

This thread is really charming.

is_that_so

NIMAN wrote: »

It will take very brave politicians to extend this level 5 beyond 1st December.

I think it would be political suicide.

It will all depend on what NPHET say and they can (and will be!) blamed for it if it doesn't happen. For now the odds are probably against Level 3 on Dec 1.

polesheep

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Department of education only allow equipment like hand sanitizer from certain suppliers. They revoked the approval for one of them yesterday. They aren't allowed just purchase other hand sanitizer.

I do agree it's a crazy system.

Lots of good principals take initiatives without seeking department approval.

Herb Powell

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

A suggestion that someone buys a couple of bottles of sanitizer "get absolutely ****ed".

This thread is really charming.

It's absolute nonsense rooted in continued insidious blame-shifting bullshhit.

Politeness is wasted on such a crass suggestion. I'll get a little yellow card, maybe a thread ban, big fuccking deal. I stand by what I said 100%. It is disgusting how quickly people are throwing each other under the bus and consistently missing the mark with where the blame should lie.

JimToken

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is going to be a lot of ward closures in the next couple of weeks. I fear for the secondary deaths.

This was always the danger

Hospitals schools and nursing homes running out of staff

We're shooting ourselves in the foot twice

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

There is going to be a lot of ward closures in the next couple of weeks. I fear for the secondary deaths.

We'll come back to this in a couple of weeks.

seamus

is_that_so wrote: »

This is almost a given, based on past evidence. One gets the impression they really didn't want to give any metrics at all.

Tbh at this stage, I'd nearly forgive someone for getting into conspiracy theories.

We've seen The NPHET giving briefings saying things are deteriorating, while displaying graphs that show the opposite. Claims that growth was exponential, when the data for that day showed that it had actually stalled.

For months we had a pattern where the daily cases announced were typically 10-20% lower than the number of positive swabs. Then maybe once a week the "backlog" might get cleared in a big numbers day.

Now this week, just as the numbers start to improve, we've had five solid days where the cases announced, exceeded the number of swabs. In one instance, by 30%.

One would definitely be forgiven for thinking that there's a deliberate drive to make things look as bad as possible to try and scare people into compliance.

There is a fair argument that if they started saying, "Uhh...actually it looks like thing are stabilising", then people might take their eye off the ball. But honesty is still required.

If we see another day where the positivity rate is dropping, but the message is still doom and gloom, then my confidence in NPHET's approach will take quite a hit.

polesheep

seamus wrote: »

Tbh at this stage, I'd nearly forgive someone for getting into conspiracy theories.

We've seen The NPHET giving briefings saying things are deteriorating, while displaying graphs that show the opposite. Claims that growth was exponential, when the data for that day showed that it had actually stalled.

For months we had a pattern where the daily cases announced were typically 10-20% lower than the number of positive swabs. Then maybe once a week the "backlog" might get cleared in a big numbers day.

Now this week, just as the numbers start to improve, we've had five solid days where the cases announced, exceeded the number of swabs. In one instance, by 30%.

One would definitely be forgiven for thinking that there's a deliberate drive to make things look as bad as possible to try and scare people into compliance.

There is a fair argument that if they started saying, "Uhh...actually it looks like thing are stabilising", then people might take their eye off the ball. But honesty is still required.

If we see another day where the positivity rate is dropping, but the message is still doom and gloom, then my confidence in NPHET's approach will take quite a hit.

These days there seems to be an enormous gap between the truth and a lie.

mikekerry

seamus wrote: »

Tbh at this stage, I'd nearly forgive someone for getting into conspiracy theories.

We've seen The NPHET giving briefings saying things are deteriorating, while displaying graphs that show the opposite. Claims that growth was exponential, when the data for that day showed that it had actually stalled.

For months we had a pattern where the daily cases announced were typically 10-20% lower than the number of positive swabs. Then maybe once a week the "backlog" might get cleared in a big numbers day.

Now this week, just as the numbers start to improve, we've had five solid days where the cases announced, exceeded the number of swabs. In one instance, by 30%.

One would definitely be forgiven for thinking that there's a deliberate drive to make things look as bad as possible to try and scare people into compliance.

There is a fair argument that if they started saying, "Uhh...actually it looks like thing are stabilising", then people might take their eye off the ball. But honesty is still required.

If we see another day where the positivity rate is dropping, but the message is still doom and gloom, then my confidence in NPHET's approach will take quite a hit.

Can someone confirm if it's a case that no shows for covid tests are put down as positive ?
I've heard this from a few sources.

Funsterdelux

JimToken wrote: »

This was always the danger

Hospitals schools and nursing homes running out of staff

We're shooting ourselves in the foot twice

Or once in both feet?

CIARAN_BOYLE

mikekerry wrote: »

Can someone confirm if it's a case that no shows for covid tests are put down as positive ?
I've heard this from a few sources.

I can confirm it's not the case.

Blondini

polesheep wrote: »

Lots of good principals take initiatives without seeking department approval.

One principal did in Kerry the other day, closed the school due to 7 cases and 45 close contacts.

He was reprimanded and quickly put in his place by the department.

seamus

mikekerry wrote: »

Can someone confirm if it's a case that no shows for covid tests are put down as positive ?
I've heard this from a few sources.

The HSE protocol for children is that if a GP/doctor determines that a covid test is necessary but the parent refuses, then the GP is required to treat that patient as being covid-positive.

Whether this means they must report it to the HPSC as a confirmed case, I don't know.

Whether the same applies for adults, again I don't know.

I very much doubt that no-shows are automatically registered as a positive swab. That would make no sense from a data reporting point of view. The swab data would be useless.

However, in terms of new case notifications, it's a possibility.

mikekerry

seamus wrote: »

The HSE protocol for children is that if a GP/doctor determines that a covid test is necessary but the parent refuses, then the GP is required to treat that patient as being covid-positive.

Whether this means they must report it to the HPSC as a confirmed case, I don't know.

Whether the same applies for adults, again I don't know.

I very much doubt that no-shows are automatically registered as a positive swab. That would make no sense from a data reporting point of view. The swab data would be useless.

However, in terms of new case notifications, it's a possibility.

I heard from 3 people that didn't make the test that they got text messages later that day to say they were positive.
strange.

hotmail.com

The hand sanitiser thing is a scandal. The Irish government is again lurching from one calamity to another.

Boggles

The only way in Ireland that you are being counted as covid positive is if a lab return a positive swab.

The pandemic denial has turned up to 11 in recent days.

Boggles

mikekerry wrote: »

I heard from 3 people that didn't make the test that they got text messages later that day to say they were positive.
strange.

Why did of 3 people you know not "make the test"?

Liberalbrehon

hotmail.com wrote: »

The hand sinitiser thing is a scandal. The Irish government is again lurching from one calamity to another.

By government do you mean, the cabinet or the ministers, or something else?
To me most of the problems are the responsibility of the agencies of the state and the well paid people who run those agencies or departments. It doesn't matter which political party is dictating policy.
Communication with/between these agencies/departments seems to be problematic to say the least.

AdamD

Boggles wrote: »

The only way in Ireland that you are being counted as covid positive is if a lab return a positive swab.

The pandemic denial has turned up to 11 in recent days.

You're seeing pandemic denial where it doesn't exist. Questioning statistics and reporting doesn't mean people don't believe the pandemic exists and is a serious matter.

hotmail.com

Liberalbrehon wrote: »

By government do you mean, the cabinet or the ministers, or something else?
To me most of the problems are the responsibility of the agencies of the state and the well paid people who run those agencies or departments. It doesn't matter which political party is dictating policy.
Communication with/between these agencies/departments seems to be problematic to say the least.

The cabinet is the government.

The government approved decisions and funding. They are responsible. Incompetent civil servants should be sacked by the government if failings are identified.

Boggles

AdamD wrote: »

You're seeing pandemic denial where it doesn't exist.

Nah.

Pandemic Denial 101.

Question the tests.

It's telegraphed and pretty boring at this stage. They need a new avenue.

stephenjmcd

Thanks to hmmm on the vaccine thread for the initial link to this.

Germany getting its house in order for vaccination centres to begin rollout by year end. Looks like Pfizer well on its way to EU approval so.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-germany-vaccine-idUKKBN277342

bb1234567

mikekerry wrote: »

I heard from 3 people that didn't make the test that they got text messages later that day to say they were positive.
strange.

Very strange indeed..almost sounds made up

Boggles

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Thanks to hmmm on the vaccine thread for the initial link to this.

Germany getting its house in order for vaccination centres to begin rollout by year end. Looks like Pfizer well on its way to EU approval so.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-germany-vaccine-idUKKBN277342

Germany will always have their house in order.

We are constantly shocked by it, they aren't. That's just how they do things.

stephenjmcd

Boggles wrote: »

Germany will always have their house in order.

We are constantly shocked by it, they aren't. That's just how they do things.

Yup you can be dam sure it'll be well organised and smoothly run.

Whereas we can only hope that some sort of plan is being put together here

boardise

Kivaro wrote: »

Very odd response.
Just because someone doesn't believe what the CCP is telling us, then he must be Donald Trump.
Well, I must be Donald Trump too, because I certainly do not believe what the Chinese Communist Party is disclosing about Covid in China, and especially its origins.

Je suis Donald.

froog

The hand sanitiser recall is absolutely shocking. I feel like many will not understand just how dangerous methanol is. They should be absolutely throwing the book at those responsible. The company and the HSE for approving it.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Germany will always have their house in order.

We are constantly shocked by it, they aren't. That's just how they do things.

Can anyone imagine the likes of Michael Lowry, Healy Rae's or a Mattie McGrath being elected in Germany.

Plumbthedepths

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can anyone imagine the likes of Michael Lowry, Healy Rae's or a Mattie McGrath being elected in Germany.

The Germans have elected some very nasty people, one stands out. I don't think anyone of the cohort you listed is comparable.

hotmail.com

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can anyone imagine the likes of Michael Lowry, Healy Rae's or a Mattie McGrath being elected in Germany.

Please be conscious of Germany's past when comparing who we elect.

JimToken

It's going to be a media sh1tshow when the vaccines take centre stage