Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

Plumbthedepths

Mr.S wrote: »

Kermit, that’s absolute waffle.

You're very polite.

eagle eye

Thierry12 wrote:

The unlucky 20% that got the disease might drop dead at 50, that's true as they got sick from a novel virus, a big big might though

Just to clarify, asymptomatics are getting long covid not just those who had symptoms.

Plumbthedepths

Long Covid...
https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/bacterial-and-viral-infections

Spanish Eyes

caveat emptor wrote: »

Do you remember we were told there was no issue with all the flights in from America? Turns out there were some issues........This is how one plane seeded outbreaks in 6 different regions of Ireland. Pretty shocking and at the same time completely predictable. Fair play to some politicians for trying to do something.








https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1283363156648251392?s=20

That woman Catherine Murphy sounds very reasonable and rational to me anyway and she has a point.

But hey this country will never refuse visitors, there are no checks, off you go, while the rest of us are locked down. Sick of the double standards.

The excuse will be the FDI managers from US going back and forth. Have to keep that sector sweet.

The lack of checking travel quarantine is a scandal. But get your heads down everyone else and isolate.

kenmc

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Who would go shopping for a walk

There are oodles of people who seem to think that shipping is a hobby, or exercise. They must be absolutely nuts.

Icantthinkof1

Thierry12 wrote: »

You should distinguish between infection and disease before you scare someone needlessly

They are 2 different things as you know

Cristiano Ronaldo right now excercising at his home has the infection, he's not dropping dead at 50 from Covid]

Um...Ronaldo is 35?!

mandrake04

caveat emptor wrote: »

Do you remember we were told there was no issue with all the flights in from America? Turns out there were some issues........This is how one plane seeded outbreaks in 6 different regions of Ireland. Pretty shocking and at the same time completely predictable. Fair play to some politicians for trying to do something.








https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1283363156648251392?s=20

It’s not a shock to those that use commonsense.

Is there indication that virus transmission was onboard or was it simply just carrying passengers infected elsewhere?

I don’t think anyone can argue that the major risk is on aircraft itself but the fact it’s simply a mule for infected people and it just transports the problem from elsewhere.

If you reduce the risk of introducing the amount primary infections rather than blaming sources of secondary infections like Schools, Meat factories, GAA etc there wouldn’t be as big problem.

Jack1985

caveat emptor wrote: »

Do you remember we were told there was no issue with all the flights in from America? Turns out there were some issues........This is how one plane seeded outbreaks in 6 different regions of Ireland. Pretty shocking and at the same time completely predictable. Fair play to some politicians for trying to do something.

Where have you quoted this from? Do you have a source to verify this material?

440Hertz

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That woman Catherine Murphy sounds very reasonable and rational to me anyway and she has a point.

But hey this country will never refuse visitors, there are no checks, off you go, while the rest of us are locked down. Sick of the double standards.

The excuse will be the FDI managers from US going back and forth. Have to keep that sector sweet.

The lack of checking travel quarantine is a scandal. But get your heads down everyone else and isolate.

Well take the total cost of the lockdown and divide it by the total volume of international tourists in 2020 and you'll get a quick sense of how little sense it makes not to test at the airports and ports. If it inconveniences people, big deal.

It's also not just tourists, but Irish people coming back from various holidays.

I know of one person who's off on holidays now, mid level 5.

Whatever is best international practice on this, we should be doing. It's inexcusable not to be and is extremely economically damaging.

Ficheall

robbiezero wrote: »

The likes of neighbours of me ma that order their shopping online and won't touch it for two days after it arrives.

What do you feel is the downside of this? Aside from some freshly baked foods not being as fresh, they've got a possibly marginally reduced rate of infection, and some peace of mind. There's no real cost to their being cautious.

Purple Mountain

How will we deal with the ex pats who decide to come home for Christmas?
Most barely come home for 2 weeks so I can't see them going somewhere to isolate.
They'll probably be coming straight from a work/school environment straight back to Ireland and they're not going to stick to mixing with one household, they'll be meeting up with the usual cohort of reunion friends/family.

WoollyRedHat

Purple Mountain wrote: »

How will we deal with the ex pats who decide to come home for Christmas?
Most barely come home for 2 weeks so I can't see them going somewhere to isolate.
They'll probably be coming straight from a work/school environment straight back to Ireland and they're not going to stick to mixing with one household, they'll be meeting up with the usual cohort of reunion friends/family.

Mandatory quarantine for 7 days while waiting for test results, which they have to pay for.

Wolf359f

Just on a point I keep hearing about the 80% asymptomatic figure been quoted about, according to a HPSC they have 60% who have a test being symptomatic. So this 80% asymptomatic figure is wrong, at least based in Ireland.

Source, page

Roger_007

kenmc wrote: »

There are oodles of people who seem to think that shipping is a hobby, or exercise. They must be absolutely nuts.

Sailing may be a hobby but shipping is just commerce.

Wolf359f

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Mandatory Isolation.

Obviously at their own cost?
So fly into Belfast and save Xmas and a few thousand euro!

WoollyRedHat

Wolf359f wrote: »

Just on a point I keep hearing about the 80% asymptomatic figure been quoted about, according to a HPSC they have 60% who have a test being symptomatic. So this 80% asymptomatic figure is wrong, at least based in Ireland.

Source, page

Globally it's reckoned that 20 percent of people are truly asymptomatic.

Wolf359f

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Globally it's reckoned that 20 percent of people are truly asymptomatic.

So how did 20% magically become 80%?
Did people get confused between Symptomatic and asymptomatic meanings?

smellyoldboot

Purple Mountain wrote: »

How will we deal with the ex pats who decide to come home for Christmas?
Most barely come home for 2 weeks so I can't see them going somewhere to isolate.
They'll probably be coming straight from a work/school environment straight back to Ireland and they're not going to stick to mixing with one household, they'll be meeting up with the usual cohort of reunion friends/family.

lol. We're not going to deal with anything. They will be left do as they please, fcuk off again and we'll throw money at trying to patch up the aftermath. So normal service.

Wolf359f

smellyoldboot wrote: »

lol. We're not going to deal with anything. They will be left do as they please, fcuk off again and we'll throw money at trying to patch up the aftermath. So normal service.

I'm sure Belfast Airport would welcome the south trying to introduce any kind of travel/mandatory quarantine facility.

Purple Mountain

smellyoldboot wrote: »

lol. We're not going to deal with anything. They will be left do as they please, fcuk off again and we'll throw money at trying to patch up the aftermath. So normal service.

That's my point. Many of our businesses are on their knees but we won't be keeping the sons and daughters of Ireland from coming home for Christmas for a week from Lord knows where.

caveat emptor

Purple Mountain wrote: »

How will we deal with the ex pats who decide to come home for Christmas?
Most barely come home for 2 weeks so I can't see them going somewhere to isolate.
They'll probably be coming straight from a work/school environment straight back to Ireland and they're not going to stick to mixing with one household, they'll be meeting up with the usual cohort of reunion friends/family.

I believe the plan is to say.....
"sure how were we to know, there's nothing we could have done."

The reality is we are all being pitted against each other. Who wants to prevent Irish people who emigrated from coming home for Christmas? I don't.

Equally I don't want nursing homes getting overwhelmed.
I don't want small business' not being able to open again.
I don't want my kids school to close again.
I don't want not be allowed see family and friend.
I don't want pilots to be out of work or with debts.
I don't want people to be afraid to go to the hospital.
I don't want nurses and doctors with long covid.

We have really hard choices and we don't have the leadership to make them.

The flight thing is fairly conclusive. It's also self evident what will happen in January / February. If only there was legislation to deal with this kind of thing like the
INFECTIOUS DISEASES (AIRCRAFT) REGULATIONS 2009 or some such.

Whole genome sequencing and analysis was performed on five available samples, which came from one case travelling from one continent, three cases travelling from a different continent and one case travelling from a third continent. All five samples were identified as belonging to SARS-CoV-2 viral lineage B.1.36 (PANGOLIN nomenclature, v2.0.7). Pairwise comparison of the nucleotide sequences showed more than 99% homology across the entire viral genome, strongly suggesting a single point source of infection.
.......
We would also like to thank the team responsible for carrying out genomic sequencing at the National Virus Reference Laboratory (NVRL), UCD: Dr Cillian de Gascún, Dr Daniel Hare, Dr Jonathan Dean, Dr Michael J. Carr and Dr Gabriel Gonzalez.

Golfman64

mandrake04 wrote: »

It’s not a shock to those that use commonsense.

Is there indication that virus transmission was onboard or was it simply just carrying passengers infected elsewhere?

I don’t think anyone can argue that the major risk is on aircraft itself but the fact it’s simply a mule for infected people and it just transports the problem from elsewhere.

If you reduce the risk of introducing the amount primary infections rather than blaming sources of secondary infections like Schools, Meat factories, GAA etc there wouldn’t be as big problem.

There is almost zero risk of transmission on a flight currently given the mandatory mask policy - https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/10/20/925892185/do-masks-really-cut-your-risk-of-catching-covid-19-on-long-plane-flights

Ireland should adopt the EU traffic light policy in full with Orange and Red countries requiring a negative test < 72 hours prior to arrival. This enables safe international travel whilst providing a better alternative to the non-enforced quarantine advice.

polesheep

MelbourneMan wrote: »

I would second this. It is a good posting, and I urge readers here to take note.


It is certainly an interesting element of this pandemic. While it must be recognised that the vast majority of people by and large accept the limits of their knowledge and so follow the expert advice and regulations, on the periphery, those unable to think for themselves, but also unfortunately unaware of that fact and so do make their own interpretations of matter about which they know little or nothing, a problematic, and leave us with lessons to learn on how do handle such elements in future crises.

I know you are probably taking the piss, but anybody who accepts the limit of their knowledge is either brain dead or has died of/with Covid. By the way, I am so grateful to you for leading the way.

Purple Mountain

caveat emptor wrote: »

I believe the plan is to say.....
"sure how were we to know, there's nothing we could have done."

The reality is we are all being pitted against each other. Who wants to prevent Irish people who emigrated from coming home for Christmas? I don't.

Equally I don't want nursing homes getting overwhelmed.
I don't want small business' not being able to open again.
I don't want my kids school to close again.
I don't want not be allowed see family and friend.
I don't want pilots to be out of work or with debts.
I don't want people to be afraid to go to the hospital.
I don't want nurses and doctors with long covid.

And I hate to see Irish people abroad not being able to come home and see loved ones but how can we justify letting foreign travellers into the country when I can't see my aunt/uncle/granny 10km away?!

Wolf359f

Golfman64 wrote: »

There is almost zero risk of transmission on a flight currently given the mandatory mask policy - https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/10/20/925892185/do-masks-really-cut-your-risk-of-catching-covid-19-on-long-plane-flights

Ireland should adopt the EU traffic light policy in full with Orange and Red countries requiring a negative test < 72 hours prior to arrival. This enables safe international travel whilst providing a better alternative to the non-enforced quarantine advice.

Unless the EU setup a system/strict guidelines for testing and passing on results to airlines or country officials, I have zero faith in the government here being able to setup a system.

polesheep

Purple Mountain wrote: »

And I hate to see Irish people abroad not being able to come home and see loved ones but how can we justify letting foreign travellers into the country when I can't see my aunt/uncle/granny 10km away?!

By going to see your aunt/uncle/granny. It's not difficult. The people who want to prevent emigrants returning for Christmas are the same people who forced them away in the first place.

caveat emptor

Golfman64 wrote: »

There is almost zero risk of transmission on a flight currently given the mandatory mask policy - https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/10/20/925892185/do-masks-really-cut-your-risk-of-catching-covid-19-on-long-plane-flights

Ireland should adopt the EU traffic light policy in full with Orange and Red countries requiring a negative test < 72 hours prior to arrival. This enables safe international travel whilst providing a better alternative to the non-enforced quarantine advice.

That would be a step in right direction. Aren't Germany and Finland testing at the airports?

The whole once bitten, twice shy springs to mind though. I don't trust the airlines or government to be able to do that.

I can't go more than 5 km. Can't see family. But anyone can book a flight and fvck off anywhere and bring back whatever. Just have to Pinky promise to quarantine and go on the piss and infect half the town. Doesn't make a whole load of sense mask or no mask. Masks do help though.

Purple Mountain

polesheep wrote: »

By going to see your aunt/uncle/granny. It's not difficult. The people who want to prevent emigrants returning for Christmas are the same people who forced them away in the first place.

But I'm supposed to don the green jersey and not go see them like a good citizen!

Wolf359f

caveat emptor wrote: »

That would be a step in right direction. Aren't Germany and Finland testing at the airports?

The whole once bitten, twice shy springs to mind though. I don't trust the airlines or government to be able to do that.

I can't go more than 5 km. Can't see family. But anyone can book a flight and fvck off anywhere and bring back whatever. Just have to Pinky promise to quarantine and go on the piss and infect half the town. Doesn't make a whole load of sense mask or no mask. Masks do help though.

Unless they Government start canceling passports, they will never, every be able to stop people leaving the country.

You have to understand there's only so far a Government can go with asking/advising before they cross a line which can have serious repercussions.

s1ippy

polesheep wrote: »

I know you are probably taking the piss, but anybody who accepts the limit of their knowledge is either brain dead or has died of/with Covid. By the way, I am so grateful to you for leading the way.

So you think you can only have a definite opinion, even with incomplete data? That's an interesting story.

caveat emptor

Purple Mountain wrote: »

But I'm supposed to don the green jersey and not go see them like a good citizen!

I think that message has changed. It's put on the green jersey and stay at home unless you've loads of things to do or you are going on a week away. Not sure though.

Jack1985

caveat emptor wrote: »

I believe the plan is to say.....
"sure how were we to know, there's nothing we could have done."

The reality is we are all being pitted against each other. Who wants to prevent Irish people who emigrated from coming home for Christmas? I don't.

Again, can you link the source of this material? Your feeding a one-stream narrative, context is everything and I'd like to view the material you are adding to this forum.

WoollyRedHat

Wolf359f wrote: »

So how did 20% magically become 80%?
Did people get confused between Symptomatic and asymptomatic meanings?

I think it's confusion over people who are presymptomatic but ultimately go on to develop symptoms. Research was published in PLOS Medicine. They highlight that these truly asymptomatic cases were still infectious throughout.

Wolf359f

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

I think it's confusion over people who are presymptomatic but ultimately go on to develop symptoms. Research was published in PLOS Medicine. They highlight that these truly asymptomatic cases were still infectious throughout.

It's still a massive difference, 20% to 80%.
Anyways, the Irish data seems to fall in line with the PLOS data.
Just wish people would stop saying each day when we get 1000 new cases, oh 800 of them didn't even know they had covid etc.... sickens me.

caveat emptor

Wolf359f wrote: »

Unless they Government start canceling passports, they will never, every be able to stop people leaving the country.

You have to understand there's only so far a Government can go with asking/advising before they cross a line which can have serious repercussions.

I agree with that but I really don't have the energy to go through an argument I didn't make. Of course people should be able to leave. Nobody is suggesting that. The reality is I can't visit family 10km away but I can go to Belgium for a weekend away. Come back and be asked politely not to infect anyone.

That's what the point of all of that is. It's not to curtail your god given Gemma O'd liberty. We can't even say the word "quarantine" we have to use some fudge.

If you don't agree with it and plenty don't then why should people get fined for travelling more than 5km? What's the point.

Funnily enough if I travel to Germany I'll be test on arrival or 7 days later just incase. In germany (the eu) you get a 25 000 euro fine if you don't follow this. Doesn't matter what passport you have :eek:

caveat emptor

Jack1985 wrote: »

Again, can you link the source of this material? Your feeding a one-stream narrative, context is everything and I'd like to view the material you are adding to this forum.

Hi Jack,

I'm feeding a one-stream narrative? I don't even know what that is.
I'm referencing a scientific article. Also what's two-stream narrative.
You don't agree. I probably wouldn't if I were you. I get it.

Google it. We all need to be able to do our own research.
I don't have the link to hand.

I'm not your mammy.

Jack1985

caveat emptor wrote: »

Hi Jack,

I'm feeding a narrative? I'm referencing a scientific article.
You don't agree. I probably wouldn't if I were you. I get it.

Google it. We all need to be able to do our own research.
I don't have the link to hand.

I'm not your mammy.

LOL, mature.

It's courtesy to fellow people on here.

I can't judge the material because it's posted without reference, I'm not partial to being fed material and swallowing it at first glance. The way your posting it suggests flying Is wholly unsafe, that expat's coming home are a danger for Christmas and that even if Gov were to test they will screw it up – so that’s the narrative I’m suggesting you are pushing.

Do you have the article name? Or should I expect more low-level disrespect at a simple question in relation to your propagated material? Debate is usually encouraged through people being able to formulate opinions with access to information.

Thanks

Wolf359f

caveat emptor wrote: »

I agree with that but I really don't have the energy to go through an argument I didn't make. Of course people should be able to leave. Nobody is suggesting that. The reality is I can't visit family 10km away but I can go to Belgium for a weekend away. Come back and be asked politely not to infect anyone.

That's what the point of all of that is. It's not to curtail your god given Gemma O'd liberty. We can't even say the word "quarantine" we have to use some fudge.

If you don't agree with it and plenty don't then why should people get fined for travelling more than 5km? What's the point.

Funnily enough if I travel to Germany I'll be test on arrival or 7 days later just incase. In germany (the eu) you get a 25 000 euro fine if you don't follow this. Doesn't matter what passport you have :eek:

I'm only talking about leaving the country, you can't stop people leaving.
You went on a rant then about re-entering the country, a totally different topic.

So have you and your family fly to Belgium to meet up, if you want to get around government advice, there's your solution.

People will always find away around restrictions, if the Government says you can't do X, 90% won't do X, but 10% will find a way to do X without falling foul of guidelines.
Unlike some countries, we will never have near 100% compliance rate and introducing strict and harsh laws to try and get or punish the 10% will result in loosing some of the 90%.

caveat emptor

Jack1985 wrote: »

LOL, mature.

It's courtesy to fellow people on here.

I can't judge the material because it's posted without reference, I'm not partial to being fed material and swallowing it at first glance. The way your posting it suggests flying Is wholly unsafe, that expat's coming home are a danger for Christmas and that even if Gov were to test they will screw it up – so that’s the narrative I’m suggesting you are pushing.

Do you have the article name? Or should I expect more low-level disrespect at a simple question in relation to your propagated material? Debate is usually encouraged through people being able to formulate opinions with access to information.

Thanks

Hi Jack,

I guess you work in aviation. You suggest I'm pushing a narrative. I'm not.
I'm concerned lockdown part 2 is for nothing, just like lockdown part 1.
I've no axe to grind. I've flown loads of places, have family and friends on most continents that I hope to see. There's a time for everything.

You are hardly unbiased. Are you a pilot? If so I can guess your opinion. Just disregard it. I assure you it's real. You can't get more real than whole genome sequencing and analysis. I can copy from the pdf I downloaded if that helps.

It's in a eurosurveillance journal. I'll try get the link for you though in the spirit of 'debating' genomic sequencing from people from three continents having 99% similar viral genome that infected them and who also happened to be on the same plane.

Whole genome sequencing and analysis was per- formed on five available samples, which came from one case travelling from one continent, three cases travelling from a different continent and one case trav- elling from a third continent. All five samples were identified as belonging to SARS-CoV-2 viral lineage B.1.36 (PANGOLIN nomenclature, v2.0.7). Pairwise comparison of the nucleotide sequences showedmore than 99% homology across the entire viral genome, strongly suggesting a single point source of infection. The outbreak was declared over 28 days after the last date of symptom onset.

Lenny Lushlips

This site has USA cdc data. In as much as it can be deemed reliable, of course.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics

mandrake04

Purple Mountain wrote: »

How will we deal with the ex pats who decide to come home for Christmas?
Most barely come home for 2 weeks so I can't see them going somewhere to isolate.
They'll probably be coming straight from a work/school environment straight back to Ireland and they're not going to stick to mixing with one household, they'll be meeting up with the usual cohort of reunion friends/family.

Probably the government will simply deal with it by keeping everything closed down at L5 so limiting the need for anyone infected or not to go anywhere, I know that doesn’t make sense but really when a society closes down schools for 6 months at the expense of their kids education while letting people swan off on foreign holidays kind of says it all.

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

I can't go more than 5 km. Can't see family. But anyone can book a flight and fvck off anywhere and bring back whatever. Just have to Pinky promise to quarantine and go on the piss and infect half the town. Doesn't make a whole load of sense mask or no mask. Masks do help though.

Wolf359f wrote: »

Unless they Government start canceling passports, they will never, every be able to stop people leaving the country.

You have to understand there's only so far a Government can go with asking/advising before they cross a line which can have serious repercussions.

Wolf359f wrote: »

I'm only talking about leaving the country, you can't stop people leaving.
You went on a rant then about re-entering the country, a totally different topic.

Reentering is the point I was making. There in bold for you. You then went on a rant about not being able to leave and passports. :pac:

Wolf359f

caveat emptor wrote: »

Reentering is the point I was making. There in bold for you. You then went on a rant about not being able to leave and passports. :pac:

Reentering only addresses the issue of people leaving and coming back, reentering would not have any bearing on travellers coming to Ireland to visit family and friends arriving from homes abroad.

During the summer it was all the texas tourists arriving, now during winter is's all about Irish people going abroad and then returning home?

Maybe you could make a chart of Irish passport holders and non Irish passport arriving each month throughout the year?

Jack1985

caveat emptor wrote: »

You are hardly unbiased. Are you a pilot? If so I can guess your opinion. Just disregard it. I assure you it's real. You can't get more real than whole genome sequencing and analysis. I can copy from the pdf I downloaded if that helps.

When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me.

I'm reading that article now (as you referred to the article publisher) and it's concerning, at 7.5hrs in Summer 2020, I would suggest that the flight orginiated from Dallas.

Hardly surpising now is it, given it's a Covid breading ground.

This case is actually a very good example of how we deal with Aviation in Ireland. Allowing unrestricted travel from area's which have cases out of control and without any attempts to test or monitor movements be that through an app etc is a waiting game for cases here. That's clear.

However putting blanket quarantine when there were countries safer to visit from Ireland at point's throughout this Summer was the wrong approach.

The new EU traffic light system uses metrics to place countries on Green, Orange, Red and Grey. We are currently situated in Red. The sooner the Gov here implmement that, with testing for high-risk area's and more emphasis on monitoring of movements the better.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_20_1875

caveat emptor

No assumptions. That's great so the 14 day quarantine will be supervised by the relevant authority like in Germany? I believe it's the federal police according to the doc son would be the airport police here?

Suppose people coming home for Christmas for two weeks or less can quarantine in their rooms and zoom call into the Christmas dinner.

Kermit.de.frog

From the Guardian regarding Italian protests at new restrictions.

From the wire services in Europe: Italy saw a second night of street protests against curfews as it reported another daily record on Saturday.

After clashes in the southern city of Naples on Friday night, police again faced off against dozens of masked protestors in the centre of Rome after the far-right Forza Nuova group called for a protest against the curfews.

Some 200 masked militants belonging to the neo-fascist group hurled projectiles at police and set rubbish bins alight in the second night of street protests.

Police arrested seven protesters and reported two officers injured, according to the Repubblica daily.

The government is planning further restrictions to contain a resurgence of the pandemic, and prime minister Giuseppe Conte has said he wants to avoid a repeat of the blanket lockdown earlier in the year. But a number of regions - including Campania, the area around Naples, Lazio around Rome, and Lombardy - have imposed overnight curfews.

The northern region of Piedmont and Sicily in the south will follow next week and other regions are expected to match them. The central government is expected to announce more measures soon.

Earlier, health ministry data showed 19,644 new Covid cases and 151 dead as the disease surged in areas like Lombardy, Milan, Campania and Lazio.

Conte pledged to speed up help for businesses suffering in the crisis but said the weeks ahead would be very difficult. “We cannot lower our guard,” he added.

According to a draft decree circulated on Saturday, public gyms and swimming pools may be closed and bars and restaurants told to shut from 6 p.m., while people will be encouraged not to travel outside their home districts.

Like many authorities across Europe, the Italian government is desperate not to close down the economy completely but is facing growing public anger at renewed restrictions being imposed to limit public gatherings.

With public health services coming under strain, authorities have reopened temporary intensive care facilities built during the first phase.

Despite this, Italy’s top public health body warned on Friday services were approaching crisis point.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/oct/25/coronavirus-live-news-cases-surge-in-europe-restrictions-victoria-uk-italy-greece-austria

Once the virus gets going in the wrong direction, as with the first surge, it's extremely difficult to contain without strict counter measures.

440Hertz

Purple Mountain wrote: »

And I hate to see Irish people abroad not being able to come home and see loved ones but how can we justify letting foreign travellers into the country when I can't see my aunt/uncle/granny 10km away?!

The solution to that is to test as per best practice elsewhere e.g. Germany or Iceland.

mandrake04

Golfman64 wrote: »

There is almost zero risk of transmission on a flight currently given the mandatory mask policy - https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/10/20/925892185/do-masks-really-cut-your-risk-of-catching-covid-19-on-long-plane-flights

Ireland should adopt the EU traffic light policy in full with Orange and Red countries requiring a negative test < 72 hours prior to arrival. This enables safe international travel whilst providing a better alternative to the non-enforced quarantine advice.

Sorry I kinda of worded that wrong and you maybe misunderstood, I was trying say that the virus would have been picked up in the country of origin and transported to Ireland rather than person-to-person transmission on the plane itself.

The whole green list a few months ago was proven to be a complete failure cases were on the rise from when it was brought into operation and you can now see where the situation is, the traffic signals will much the same. Sure secondary infections from schools and GAA are somewhat to blame but travel is the virus friend.

moonage

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Once the virus gets going in the wrong direction, as with the first surge, it's extremely difficult to contain without strict counter measures.

The first surge happened because it was a new virus and there wasn't much immunity to it.

Immunity has been building and we are nearing endemic equilibrium. We are now seeing a second ripple as winter approaches, as with other respiratory infections.

Strict counter measures are not needed. There's no need to panic.

lawrencesummers

moonage wrote: »

The first surge happened because it was a new virus and there wasn't much immunity to it.

Immunity has been building and we are nearing endemic equilibrium. We are now seeing a second ripple as winter approaches, as with other respiratory infections.

Strict counter measures are not needed. There's no need to panic.

Anything other than just your opinion to back that up?