Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

oceanman

moonage wrote: »

The first surge happened because it was a new virus and there wasn't much immunity to it.

Immunity has been building and we are nearing endemic equilibrium. We are now seeing a second ripple as winter approaches, as with other respiratory infections.

Strict counter measures are not needed. There's no need to panic.

when someone tells you not to panic....you know what???

GazzaL

One of the most striking if unsurprising things so far is Dr. Tony being "not concerned" by the failure of contact tracing. One of the most basic means of dealing with the pandemic, up there with washing your hands. A scandalous embarrassment.

How are we meant to take NPHET and the Government seriously when they can't get the basics right? They're destroying the economy and society to hide their own failures. They're aided by weak opposition that are more interested in getting people on generous welfare than dealing with the issues at hand.

Probes

We are no where near a level of community immunity in Ireland. You only need to look at what's happening in the rest of the world to see that. Places in Europe that have had a bad first wave are also having a bad second wave, America is starting to have more cases again, Sweden too. There is nothing special about us here that would mean we don't have a long way to go.

I wish they'd bring in some more basic measures to stop us getting to the point of lockdowns. In China and Taiwan etc they have temperature readers in shops and cameras to check if you are wearing a mask, the doors don't open otherwise. They have police checking that positive cases and close contacts are isolating every day. These simple wee things that they can do seem to me a more acceptable restriction of freedom than the current lockdowns.

Graces7

6 wrote: »

This disease isn't the massive killer that was feared back in March.

/QUOTE]

You are being very insular. And inaccurate. Have a look at deaths in other countries? Ireland is way below any other country's deaths so far. Has anyone wondered why?

Probably that we locked down very swiftly and efficiently . Before other countries . Had it not been handled so well and fast the scene would have been very different. It is the strictness that is saving lives.
r
And now folk seek to undo all that? So they can ?

What Username Guidelines

GazzaL wrote: »

One of the most striking if unsurprising things so far is Dr. Tony being "not concerned" by the failure of contact tracing. One of the most basic means of dealing with the pandemic, up there with washing your hands. A scandalous embarrassment.

How are we meant to take NPHET and the Government seriously when they can't get the basics right? They're destroying the economy and society to hide their own failures. They're aided by weak opposition that are more interested in getting people on generous welfare than dealing with the issues at hand.

Unfortunately when they’re not concerned about tracing collapsing at 1,000+ cases per day, yet are “very concerned” at 60 cases per day in august, people stop taking what they say as seriously.

Goldrickssan

Do we currently have the strictest anti covid measures in Europe?

Stheno

Goldrickssan wrote: »

Do we currently have the strictest anti covid measures in Europe?

Yes if not in the Western world

caveat emptor

Goldrickssan wrote: »

Do we currently have the strictest anti covid measures in Europe?

Depends what restrictions etc. Lots of places locking down. We are locking down because we don’t have enough capacity. You cannot travel 5km or go to someone’s house but you are free to go on holiday and are advised to quarantine on return.

I’d say we have the most non sensical restrictions in Europe because it’ll clearly spike back up fairly soon after Christmas unless we give up on testing. We’ve given up on tracing so wouldn’t rule that out. We might end up getting texts from HSE saying ‘do your own test’ .

manniot2

eagle eye wrote: »

Just to clarify, asymptomatics are getting long covid not just those who had symptoms.

In their head

manniot2

GazzaL wrote: »

One of the most striking if unsurprising things so far is Dr. Tony being "not concerned" by the failure of contact tracing. One of the most basic means of dealing with the pandemic, up there with washing your hands. A scandalous embarrassment.

How are we meant to take NPHET and the Government seriously when they can't get the basics right? They're destroying the economy and society to hide their own failures. They're aided by weak opposition that are more interested in getting people on generous welfare than dealing with the issues at hand.

He actually said on the late late that icu capacity and tracing were not important. What was important was community spread. He knows he has the power to shut us down whenever he wants, deflect the blame from the farce of a health service we have

Goldrickssan

Stheno wrote: »

Yes if not in the Western world

Anywhere you can track different countries measures in one place? Remember seeing a graph of different countries strictness but can't find it now

Nevermind found it
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?time=latest&region=Europe

Looks like we are the strictest alright - on our own. **** the HSE

OscarMIlde

Thierry12 wrote: »

Joke

After these 6 weeks are up, those ****ing clowns need to have antigen rapid tests at the airports

They are €5 each and pretty accurate, they'll catch some cases.

They should have enforced quarantine. It's the only way to safely let people into the country. It should have been one of the major priorities once we opened back up after the first lockdown. I realise we are still vulnerable with the open border with the North, but I don't see why we can't do our best to quell it on our end.

jackboy

It seems that almost nobody has any curiosity as to why NPHET and the government have no plan for what will happen after this six week level 5 lockdown.

Goldrickssan

jackboy wrote: »

It seems that almost nobody has any curiosity as to why NPHET and the government have no plan for what will happen after this six week level 5 lockdown.

I mean Leo and co have said the plan is straight to level 3

Probes

manniot2 wrote: »

In their head

That's not true, X-rays on asymptomics have shown lung damage and other organ damage. Long covid is certainly possible for people that have had mild or no symptoms. I know someone that had it very mildly in March and is still suffering.

FintanMcluskey

Goldrickssan wrote: »

Do we currently have the strictest anti covid measures in Europe?

Strictest nationwide measures since June in the EU.

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That woman Catherine Murphy sounds very reasonable and rational to me anyway and she has a point.

But hey this country will never refuse visitors, there are no checks, off you go, while the rest of us are locked down. Sick of the double standards.

The excuse will be the FDI managers from US going back and forth. Have to keep that sector sweet.

The lack of checking travel quarantine is a scandal. But get your heads down everyone else and isolate.

Any us multinationals I am aware of are very strict on international travel

JimToken

They may as well have left the hospitality sector open for all the difference it makes

Tracing is pointless as we have decided to allow unregulated transmission through the schools

At this stage level 5 is merely a shock tactic to stamp out social gathering

jackboy

Goldrickssan wrote: »

I mean Leo and co have said the plan is straight to level 3

Have they? What are the daily infection rates, ICU numbers and deaths for a level three.

When Tony was asked on the Late Late about Christmas he just squirmed on his seat and didn’t answer.

Goldrickssan

jackboy wrote: »

Have they? What are the daily infection rates, ICU numbers and deaths for a level three.

When Tony was asked on the Late Late about Christmas he just squirmed on his seat and didn’t answer.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40067942.html

They're pretty much saying level 3 is as good as it will get between now and Xmas.

Level 3 is still ****.

Stheno

jackboy wrote: »

It seems that almost nobody has any curiosity as to why NPHET and the government have no plan for what will happen after this six week level 5 lockdown.

They don't have a plan is the problem

Stheno

manniot2 wrote: »

He actually said on the late late that icu capacity and tracing were not important. What was important was community spread. He knows he has the power to shut us down whenever he wants, deflect the blame from the farce of a health service we have

Exactly the HSE is a farce

Ficheall

Wolf359f wrote: »

I'm only talking about leaving the country, you can't stop people leaving.
You went on a rant then about re-entering the country, a totally different topic.

Hang on, now. Re-entering the country is a totally different topic to leaving the country? What sort of nonsense is that?

Solli

Probes wrote: »

That's not true, X-rays on asymptomics have shown lung damage and other organ damage. Long covid is certainly possible for people that have had mild or no symptoms. I know someone that had it very mildly in March and is still suffering.

Can you tell us more about their currrnt symptoms as this would be interesting

prunudo

Goldrickssan wrote: »

Do we currently have the strictest anti covid measures in Europe?

Wales seem to have taken a much stricter approach from what I can see.

Santy2015

Level 3 in December does sweet fûck all for the hospitality sector. Basically level 5 with retail open! Who will want to sit outside having tapas in miserable weather in December... answer is nobody! I the restaurants and pubs have been the scapegoats since this all started in February. But it’s obvious to see it was household, nursing home and hospital outbreaks that caused the majority of cases. You just need to look at what’s happening in the galway nursing home, CUH ward outbreak and in Cavan General as well!

prunudo

GazzaL wrote: »

One of the most striking if unsurprising things so far is Dr. Tony being "not concerned" by the failure of contact tracing. One of the most basic means of dealing with the pandemic, up there with washing your hands. A scandalous embarrassment.

How are we meant to take NPHET and the Government seriously when they can't get the basics right? They're destroying the economy and society to hide their own failures. They're aided by weak opposition that are more interested in getting people on generous welfare than dealing with the issues at hand.

Add to that a media who are by and large cheer leaders for the government and hanging on every word from those at the top of Nphet and Hse. More concerned about protecting their ad revenue or being the first to get the latest scoop on ever increasing restrictions or bad news.

rob316

GazzaL wrote: »

One of the most striking if unsurprising things so far is Dr. Tony being "not concerned" by the failure of contact tracing. One of the most basic means of dealing with the pandemic, up there with washing your hands. A scandalous embarrassment.

How are we meant to take NPHET and the Government seriously when they can't get the basics right? They're destroying the economy and society to hide their own failures. They're aided by weak opposition that are more interested in getting people on generous welfare than dealing with the issues at hand.

Holohan has a history of not accepting accountability.

Downlinz

Santy2015 wrote: »

Level 3 in December does sweet fûck all for the hospitality sector. Basically level 5 with retail open! Who will want to sit outside having tapas in miserable weather in December... answer is nobody! I the restaurants and pubs have been the scapegoats since this all started in February. But it’s obvious to see it was household, nursing home and hospital outbreaks that caused the majority of cases. You just need to look at what’s happening in the galway nursing home, CUH ward outbreak and in Cavan General as well!

Saying households is a major source of outbreaks is ridiculous though considering they have to have got it from somewhere else to bring it into a household.

Logically hospitality was always going to be a likely source of spread considering it's indoors and involves large groups gathering in close proximity for an extended period of time.

They haven't been scapegoated at all, they just unfortunately operate in a sector that's particularly exposed to a virus outbreak. Similar to tourism and sport.

Probes

Solli wrote: »

Can you tell us more about their currrnt symptoms as this would be interesting

Sure, he still is out of breath doing simple things like just getting to the car and has headaches too - but he says he has a wide range of symptoms that are coming and going. Being short of breath is the major one though.

I mean it seems pretty clear that this is a reality, the Covid symptom tracker in the UK has the rate of people suffering with long term symptoms as 1 in 10.

Probes

Probes wrote: »

Sure, he still is out of breath doing simple things like just getting to the car and has headaches too - but he says he has a wide range of symptoms that are coming and going. Being short of breath is the major one though.

I mean it seems pretty clear that this is a reality, the Covid symptom tracker in the UK has the rate of people suffering with long term symptoms as 1 in 10.

I should also state that I know someone who now thinks they've had it, and I'd agree, but he was asymptomatic, his children lost their sense of smell and wife had what appeared to be a cold at the same time over the summer. His kid is now in uni in a house share with 5 others who all tested positive where as the kid has tested negative, presumably due to antibodies gained over the summer.

The virus is mad and the reason it's so difficult to contain is that it has such a vast range of outcomes from person to person.

Downlinz

GazzaL wrote: »

One of the most striking if unsurprising things so far is Dr. Tony being "not concerned" by the failure of contact tracing. One of the most basic means of dealing with the pandemic, up there with washing your hands. A scandalous embarrassment.

How are we meant to take NPHET and the Government seriously when they can't get the basics right? They're destroying the economy and society to hide their own failures. They're aided by weak opposition that are more interested in getting people on generous welfare than dealing with the issues at hand.

Have to admit that SF's messaging has been all over the place during this pandemic. They oppose restrictions one week and support them the next, they want an all island approach but are saying different things on each side of the border.

The SD's and Róisín Shortall have been the only sensible voice in opposition during all this.

Goldrickssan

Downlinz wrote: »

Saying households is a major source of outbreaks is ridiculous though considering they have to have got it from somewhere else to bring it into a household.

Logically hospitality was always going to be a likely source of spread considering it's indoors and involves large groups gathering in close proximity for an extended period of time.

They haven't been scapegoated at all, they just unfortunately operate in a sector that's particularly exposed to a virus outbreak. Similar to tourism and sport.

It's not a ridiculous thing to say at all. No matter where the virus appears it has to have got there from somewhere else.

If someone picks up the virus and gives it to 4 others in the household that's an outbreak. Those 4 others could now spread it far and wide.

Boggles

jackboy wrote: »

It seems that almost nobody has any curiosity as to why NPHET and the government have no plan for what will happen after this six week level 5 lockdown.

You are being too myopic in your view.

The reproductive number is only going to go one way for 2 weeks in December/January.

The measures now are primarily for the new year.

It's chess not checkers.

Happydays2020

Probes wrote: »

Sure, he still is out of breath doing simple things like just getting to the car and has headaches too - but he says he has a wide range of symptoms that are coming and going. Being short of breath is the major one though.

I mean it seems pretty clear that this is a reality, the Covid symptom tracker in the UK has the rate of people suffering with long term symptoms as 1 in 10.

I picked up a virus in 2018 and has these types of symptoms for about a year. Was very disconcerting and difficult as the symptoms come and go.

whisky_galore

News of Irish anti mask arsehole reported on in India.

https://www.indiatimes.com/amp/trending/wtf/ireland-man-smashes-wine-whiskey-bottles-told-to-wear-a-mask-526006.html

jackboy

Boggles wrote: »

You are being too myopic in your view.

The reproductive number is only going to go one way for 2 weeks in December/January.

The measures now are primarily for the new year.

It's chess not checkers.

Yeah well NPHET and the government are playing it like snakes and ladders.

Santy2015

Goldrickssan wrote: »

It's not a ridiculous thing to say at all. No matter where the virus appears it has to have got there from somewhere.

Outbreaks from those areas have been few and far between. The logic behind them being seen as the vectors is because contact tracing is only going back 48 hours. Professor Nolan was guessing that it was pubs and restaurants causing the spread and has been called out on it on Twitter by David Higgins and a few more. If they wanted to get the exact source of an outbreak they’d probably need to go at least 7 days back to catch it and they simply don’t have the system in place for it and more then likely just don’t want to do it anyway. Irish times article from this morning and I think he’s spot on. We will not endure rolling lockdown and businesses being crippled much longer!

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/pat-leahy-fiscal-reality-will-halt-cycle-of-lockdowns-1.4389677?mode=amp&fbclid=IwAR18wBCBjHcMTKIjUt-eVnS9GCfyjPAGu2TmD0DTsP-NsR-XEJCWQ_sQcOE

Goldrickssan

prunudo wrote: »

Wales seem to have taken a much stricter approach from what I can see.

https://gov.wales/coronavirus-firebreak-frequently-asked-questions

Seems fairly similar

Probes

Happydays2020 wrote: »

I picked up a virus in 2018 and has these types of symptoms for about a year. Was very disconcerting and difficult as the symptoms come and go.

Yup, certainly not a phenomenon that is only found in Covid. Any type of severe virus can cause these symptoms I believe, but probably a lot of people have this right now.

Happydays2020

Boggles wrote: »

You are being too myopic in your view.

The reproductive number is only going to go one way for 2 weeks in December/January.

The measures now are primarily for the new year.

It's chess not checkers.

Yes it is a game of chess but we are all over the place. Government is losing patience with a politicised NPHET and the crazy inefficiencies in the HSE are once more coming to the fore.

We will have this for the next 12 months to a greater or lesser degree and we need to have far better governance so we have the best mitigation and adaptation strategies. Targeted restrictions, drugs/healthcare, protecting the most vulnerable, and hopefully a workable vaccine.

Eod100

Story in Sunday Times today about people getting infected from a flight. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/middle-east-to-ireland-flight-launched-viral-outbreak-of-59-cases-8p9rrhsnv It's behind a paywall but seems to be based on this article https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.42.2001624

Boggles

jackboy wrote: »

Yeah well NPHET and the government are playing it like snakes and ladders.

NPHET have repeatedly said the goal is to get the cases down as much as they can before Christmas because they anticipate the reproductive number will at least double.

Have you a plan there yourself chief?

Zebra3

jackboy wrote: »

It seems that almost nobody has any curiosity as to why NPHET and the government have no plan for what will happen after this six week level 5 lockdown.

Sure who would listen to them anyway?

A few weeks ago they introduced a five level plan and in no time ditched it.

Jim Gazebo

theguzman wrote: »

I have put up 1,500km since Thursday, I met one checkpoint, a couple questions and GAA banter and left on.

The one I met they didn't even speak to me. Just waved me thru.

prunudo

whisky_galore wrote: »

News of Irish anti mask arsehole reported on in India.

https://www.indiatimes.com/amp/trending/wtf/ireland-man-smashes-wine-whiskey-bottles-told-to-wear-a-mask-526006.html

Should really be 'Scumbag arrested for being a scumbag' its nothing to do with mask wearing or covid.

Boggles

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Yes it is a game of chess but we are all over the place. Government is losing patience with a politicised NPHET and the crazy inefficiencies in the HSE are once more coming to the fore.

We will have this for the next 12 months to a greater or lesser degree and we need to have far better governance so we have the best mitigation and adaptation strategies. Targeted restrictions, drugs/healthcare, protecting the most vulnerable, and hopefully a workable vaccine.

It's primarily the governance that are failing, HSE were always going to fail because they are not fit for purpose.

Personally I think a couple of ministers need to go.

The top level of the HSE needs to be disbanded and be directed by the department of health.

Icyseanfitz

https://extra.ie/2020/10/25/news/irish-news/almost-40-of-schools-have-had-a-positive-covid-19-diagnosis-amid-growing-concern-from-parents

40% of schools have had a positive case.

prunudo

Goldrickssan wrote: »

https://gov.wales/coronavirus-firebreak-frequently-asked-questions

Seems fairly similar

You're right, going by the news and interviews I thought they were stricter. They don't have distance limits either.

coastwatch

Probes wrote: »

Sure, he still is out of breath doing simple things like just getting to the car and has headaches too - but he says he has a wide range of symptoms that are coming and going. Being short of breath is the major one though.

I mean it seems pretty clear that this is a reality, the Covid symptom tracker in the UK has the rate of people suffering with long term symptoms as 1 in 10.

Interesting program on this subject (Long Covid) from BBC Radio4 presenter Adam Rutherford.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000mzms