VW ID.3 vs Kia eNiro (vs Tesla Model 3)

jasonc5432

TitianGerm wrote: »

ID3 is on buggy software at the moment. There is meant to be a big update in January.

Will the software update just fix things or will it add new stuff?

jusmeig

jasonc5432 wrote: »

Will the software update just fix things or will it add new stuff?

Prolly more bug fixes at this stage, but eventually both!

How bad/good are current owners finding the infotainment?
The map seems laggy/slow, but the rest seemed ok.

TitianGerm

jasonc5432 wrote: »

Will the software update just fix things or will it add new stuff?

It's meant to do both I think.

4goneConclusion

jusmeig wrote: »

Prolly more bug fixes at this stage, but eventually both!

How bad/good are current owners finding the infotainment?
The map seems laggy/slow, but the rest seemed ok.

It's extremely slow and unresponsive when you start the car but after a couple of minutes it's absolutely fine.


I'm really hoping the update fixes that. Otherwise I'm happy enough.

championc

jasonc5432 wrote: »

475 is incredible!

This was in August I think

slave1

Only one of these 3 cars will make you smile every time you get in...............M3

jasonc5432

championc wrote: »

This was in August I think

Wow that's really good. Hard to believe it gets above the advertised range

KCross

Silent Running wrote: »

So, stuff I'll miss from the e-Niro.
The 4 levels of regen at your fingertips, with all regen features available on the steering wheel paddles.

Personally I think VW’s implementation of “smart regeneration” is way better than regen paddles.

Not only does the ID.3 auto adjust the regen based on radar input, it also auto adjust based on turns ahead on the road. It tries to coast as much as possible which is the most efficient way to drive but then it auto ramps up/down the regen as required... imo, that’s much nicer driving experience than setting a hard regen level.

alfa_aficionado

KCross wrote: »

Personally I think VW’s implementation of “smart regeneration” is way better than regen paddles.

Not only does the ID.3 auto adjust the regen based on radar input, it also auto adjust based on turns ahead on the road. It tries to coast as much as possible which is the most efficient way to drive but then it auto ramps up/down the regen as required... imo, that’s much nicer driving experience than setting a hard regen level.

Yeah agree. I thought I’d miss 1 pedal driving from the i3 but I think I actually prefer VW’s approach in the ID.3 now, although I was able to coast easily enough in the i3 too.

alfa_aficionado

championc wrote: »

When I charge my e-Niro, I get 475km at present. In the UK, where they have more motorways and dual carriageways, I think you could safely say that you'd absolutely get at least 420km

At the moment I’m getting a range (on the GOM) of just under 400km when charging the ID.3 to 90%. [this equates to ~445km from a full charge]

eagerv

jasonc5432 wrote: »

Will the software update just fix things or will it add new stuff?

The big update in new year is hopefully a big software update plus new features (Some that should be there already, such as a timer for charging).


My car is now working perfectly apart from the first minute or so of driving, which can be a pain if you want to enter a destination or change heater settings. I actually find the car very simple, I now have to think a bit when I drive the Wifes' Ioniq.:)


The auto regen is excellent, makes for efficient effortless wafting along. And it's very smooth. And it's never intrusive if you want a bit of fun..

jasonc5432

KCross wrote: »

Personally I think VW’s implementation of “smart regeneration” is way better than regen paddles.

Not only does the ID.3 auto adjust the regen based on radar input, it also auto adjust based on turns ahead on the road. It tries to coast as much as possible which is the most efficient way to drive but then it auto ramps up/down the regen as required... imo, that’s much nicer driving experience than setting a hard regen level.

Am I wrong or does the eNiro not also have an auto regen mode based on radar etc? I thought I heard it's just a case of turning it on by holding down the right paddle?

jasonc5432

alfa_aficionado wrote: »

At the moment I’m getting a range (on the GOM) of just under 400km when charging the ID.3 to 90%. [this equates to ~445km from a full charge]

What is "GOM"? 445km is impressive; do you do city driving only or do you have 120kph motorway driving and if so for what distances approx? Cheers

jasonc5432

eagerv wrote: »

The big update in new year is hopefully a big software update plus new features (Some that should be there already, such as a timer for charging).


My car is now working perfectly apart from the first minute or so of driving, which can be a pain if you want to enter a destination or change heater settings. I actually find the car very simple, I now have to think a bit when I drive the Wifes' Ioniq.:)


The auto regen is excellent, makes for efficient effortless wafting along. And it's very smooth. And it's never intrusive if you want a bit of fun..

I've driven the ID3 a few times and while I did like it I'm very sceptical about some of the haptic/touch buttons. I found it very fiddly and non user friendly trying to set the cruise control, change air con temp, turn on radio etc.

While I'm sure I'd probably get better at using them I'm still not entirely sure if it would be safe to be playing around with these kinds of controls on a busy motorway in the rain at 7am doing 120kph in December. Whereas in my current traditional car, a radio adjustment or air con change is literally a muscle memory thing... I don't need to even divert my eyes from the road nor do I need to even think about what I'm doing. I'm not sure if the actually physical controls in the ID3 would ever be as user friendly as that. Any thoughts guys? This is a fairly important issue. The very nice driving feel of the ID3 is great but if my ability to focus on the road in difficult driving conditions becomes hampered due to fiddly physical controls then I would be worried about the ID3.

I wonder if the touchy button approach and the lack of button approach are merely fads and we will learn that actual old fashioned buttons still have a function and can be actually safer from an attention span perspective

Silent Running

The e-Niro does indeed have auto regen, which is very useful, and can be turned on and off with the right hand paddle.

I have the 2019 car, so not as good as the 2020 one.

Be careful of range reports. Your driving style will decide how much range you will get on average. I normally get massive range out of an EV. My driving style doesn't include much braking, more anticipation means less throttle and braking. My sons are constantly going from throttle to brake and back. When they drive my car, the GOM (guess-o-meter) drops alarmingly.

Oh, and another thing I'm looking forward to is the fantastic head up display on the ID. 3.

championc

The main difference between the e-Niro MY19 and MY20 is the infotainment display and the 11kw 3 phase AC charger. I replaced the halogen bulbs for LED ones - exactly the same beam pattern.

I use Regen Level 3 which gives me one foot driving, and it's always in Normal mode. And yes, you can indeed turn on Auto Regen.

KCross

jasonc5432 wrote: »

Am I wrong or does the eNiro not also have an auto regen mode based on radar etc? I thought I heard it's just a case of turning it on by holding down the right paddle?

The ID.3 is different. Auto regen with radar is just one element of it.

The ID.3 also adjusts even if there is no car in front. It “looks ahead” at corners. I don’t think eNiro does that.

Krusty_Clown

Consistent 410km predicted range on my '20 eNiro. Mix of motorway and urban driving.

padjocollins

tesla seem to have made a big improvement on their self driving tech
https://youtu.be/7nhBTSg4zWQ . That and their upcoming battery technology seem like a strong proposition to me. Ecars are clearly more fun and will be cheaper than Ice cars now and more so in the future anyway.

eagerv

Silent Running wrote: »

The e-Niro does indeed have auto regen, which is very useful, and can be turned on and off with the right hand paddle.

I have the 2019 car, so not as good as the 2020 one.

Be careful of range reports. Your driving style will decide how much range you will get on average. I normally get massive range out of an EV. My driving style doesn't include much braking, more anticipation means less throttle and braking. My sons are constantly going from throttle to brake and back. When they drive my car, the GOM (guess-o-meter) drops alarmingly.

Oh, and another thing I'm looking forward to is the fantastic head up display on the ID. 3.

Does the auto regen work on the Niro only when using the ACC? On the ID.3 it also works in the background when in "D". As I said previously, I am a great fan of it, personally not normally liking automation in cars..


I agree with your range reports, Wexford seems to be a great county for range.:) (The lack of hills and slower roads in my case) My GOM shows 330km this morning after charging to 80% and weather hasn't been ideal.
I am not slow, but generally drive in a smooth manner.


Would love the head up display, pity you have a bit of a wait..

Silent Running

eagerv wrote: »

Does the auto regen work on the Niro only when using the ACC?


Would love the head up display, pity you have a bit of a wait..

No, the auto regen can be turned on or off independently on the e-Niro.

Ah, the wait's not that long. It's nearly November! (I keep telling myself)

eagerv

Just back to the OP's original question, VW ID.3 vs Kia eNiro (vs Tesla Model 3).


I was very interested in all 3 cars, but had to rule out the M3 because a hatchback was important to us having a dog. Perhaps in the future a Tesla(Y?) will be a front runner. We also now prefer a higher car, my wife finding it difficult after an injury to get down into a car. (Even though her Ioniq so far seems fine)


That left it to the ID.3 or the eNiro. I think I would have gone for the eNiro had the choice been ID.3 Plus/ eNiro. The Niro is a better equipped car, with a little more range and looks more substantial if you need a slightly bigger car.


However I went with the Base ID.3, which at about €6K less than the Niro, I think is great value for a longer range EV which is also great fun to drive.


It's great now that we have a choice, any of the above three are great cars..

KCross

Silent Running wrote: »

No, the auto regen can be turned on or off independently on the e-Niro.

However, its not the same thing as the ID.3 from my reading of it.

I havent driven a MY20 eNiro but the kia website says

"Smart regenerative braking
You can set four levels of regenerative braking to recharge your battery with kinetic energy. For effortless city driving, select 'one-pedal driving': just lift your foot off the accelerator and the car stops. Combined with Smart Cruise Control, regenerative braking can adjust the level of power regeneration to the pace of the car ahead."

That to me sounds like its entirely radar based.

The ID.3 has that too but also has the ability to sense an upcoming bend in the road and adjust regen on the fly for that bend without having activated ACC or any car being in front of you to act as a reference.

So, driving along a straight stretch of road and you lift off it will coast, then without changing any settings you approach a bend and lift off the accelerator and the ID.3 will adjust the regen to bring the speed down to a level that makes it safe to traverse that bend.... regardless of being in D or B mode.

Based on Kia's description of "Smart regenerative braking" it wont do what the ID.3 does and it is a really good driving experience. Its also probably playing a part in why the ID.3 is as efficient as it is.

One of the reasons why I rarely used B mode in the Leaf was because I found it too agressive at times and I didnt want to be constantly switching modes. The ID.3 was a breath of fresh air in that regard. It coasts as much as it can and utilises the correct amount of regen for each scenario.

Silent Running

KCross wrote: »

However, its not the same thing as the ID.3 from my reading of it.

I havent driven a MY20 eNiro but the kia website says

"Smart regenerative braking
You can set four levels of regenerative braking to recharge your battery with kinetic energy. For effortless city driving, select 'one-pedal driving': just lift your foot off the accelerator and the car stops. Combined with Smart Cruise Control, regenerative braking can adjust the level of power regeneration to the pace of the car ahead."

That to me sounds like its entirely radar based.

The ID.3 has that too but also has the ability to sense an upcoming bend in the road and adjust regen on the fly for that bend without having activated ACC or any car being in front of you to act as a reference.

So, driving along a straight stretch of road and you lift off it will coast, then without changing any settings you approach a bend and lift off the accelerator and the ID.3 will adjust the regen to bring the speed down to a level that makes it safe to traverse that bend.... regardless of being in D or B mode.

Based on Kia's description of "Smart regenerative braking" it wont do what the ID.3 does and it is a really good driving experience. Its also probably playing a part in why the ID.3 is as efficient as it is.

One of the reasons why I rarely used B mode in the Leaf was because I found it too agressive at times and I didnt want to be constantly switching modes. The ID.3 was a breath of fresh air in that regard. It coasts as much as it can and utilises the correct amount of regen for each scenario.

Yeah, I know where you're coming from alright. But having done about 300kms test driving the ID.3 1st Plus and base, I'm still not convinced of how well it will work. At one point it was cancelling the ACC and using regen to slow down to 50 (100 limit) for no other reason that there was a junction coming that consisted of one very minor road on each side of the N road. No reason to slow down at all. It also slowed the car, without ACC on, for minor junctions where there was no need to slow.

On paper, it's great, and will probably be great when the big update happens, but I found it a bit over sensitive. Maybe it was just a bug in the particular 1st Plus that I tested it on.

The e-Niro is based on radar only, but the radar seems to detect tight bends and applies regen when on auto. It looks like it detects the wall or hedge in the way and acts accordingly. It can catch you out when there's an open bend with nothing to detect.

KCross

Silent Running wrote: »

At one point it was cancelling the ACC and using regen to slow down to 50 (100 limit) for no other reason that there was a junction coming that consisted of one very minor road on each side of the N road. No reason to slow down at all. It also slowed the car, without ACC on, for minor junctions where there was no need to slow.

It is over sensitive, for sure, on the speed sign recognition. Lots of complaints about that and that sounds like what you describe above. I think its a combination of reading the signs and using the map data it has which could be out of date.

Not sure thats the same as the auto regen thing though. I thought it was quite good anyway. Certainly better than a fixed regen level.

VW have alot riding on this big software update in Q1.

Silent Running

KCross wrote: »

It is over sensitive, for sure, on the speed sign recognition. Lots of complaints about that and that sounds like what you describe above. I think its a combination of reading the signs and using the map data it has which could be out of date.

Not sure thats the same as the auto regen thing though. I thought it was quite good anyway. Certainly better than a fixed regen level.

VW have alot riding on this big software update in Q1.

I don't think speed recognition played a part. I was on a 100 section with no speed signs showing the couple of times it happened. One time there was no traffic following so I let it slow to see how far it would go. I gave up at 20kph and accelerated on. I really couldn't reason out what it was up to, but it was applying regen.

There is so much riding on the Q1 update that it's a good bet it'll be sorted, and sorted well. This gave me the confidence to place my order.

kris_2021

Silent Running wrote: »

I don't think speed recognition played a part. I was on a 100 section with no speed signs showing the couple of times it happened. One time there was no traffic following so I let it slow to see how far it would go. I gave up at 20kph and accelerated on. I really couldn't reason out what it was up to, but it was applying regen.

There is so much riding on the Q1 update that it's a good bet it'll be sorted, and sorted well. This gave me the confidence to place my order.

was it in B mode by any chance? than it is normal. in D mode should not happen

Silent Running

kris_2021 wrote: »

was it in B mode by any chance? than it is normal. in D mode should not happen

Can't remember.

alfa_aficionado

jasonc5432 wrote: »

What is "GOM"? 445km is impressive; do you do city driving only or do you have 120kph motorway driving and if so for what distances approx? Cheers

Daily commute of just over 40km each way - mostly N roads with a bit of urban thrown in at each end. No motorways in this part of the world!

alfa_aficionado

jasonc5432 wrote: »

I've driven the ID3 a few times and while I did like it I'm very sceptical about some of the haptic/touch buttons. I found it very fiddly and non user friendly trying to set the cruise control, change air con temp, turn on radio etc.

Definitely not as good as proper buttons but I find the voice recognition (once the system has properly booted up) to be very good and it will do things like turning the heated seats or steering wheel on and off without any difficulty. No issues with changing to a named radio station either - haven't tried setting cruise control with it however.

jordan191

The software on the Id3 seems very hit and miss I'd wait to see can they iron out the problems before I'd buy one

championc

Post from a UK EV Drivers Group

"Last night the guy who installed my Zappi rang and asked me if a customer could try out his ID3 on my Zappi because we both had similar PV systems and he could only get 1.1kw on his. Same problem on mine on all of the Zappis abilities, timed, fast or smart. On a morrisons Type 2 he got the full monty.
It appears the the VW ID3 does not follow agreed EV Standard IEC61851-1 which is the standard for AC charging and have also added a German standard VDE-4100 that allows the suppliers to switch off charging.
The outcome (apparently) is the ID3 cannot use the output from solar to charge the car indeed there are issues with E7 meters and other smart chargers. Bottom line it's been designed to work with dumb chargers.
There is a thread on the MyEnergi blog about this and the difficulties VW have now built into the car.

eagerv

championc wrote: »

Post from a UK EV Drivers Group

"Last night the guy who installed my Zappi rang and asked me if a customer could try out his ID3 on my Zappi because we both had similar PV systems and he could only get 1.1kw on his. Same problem on mine on all of the Zappis abilities, timed, fast or smart. On a morrisons Type 2 he got the full monty.
It appears the the VW ID3 does not follow agreed EV Standard IEC61851-1 which is the standard for AC charging and have also added a German standard VDE-4100 that allows the suppliers to switch off charging.
The outcome (apparently) is the ID3 cannot use the output from solar to charge the car indeed there are issues with E7 meters and other smart chargers. Bottom line it's been designed to work with dumb chargers.
There is a thread on the MyEnergi blog about this and the difficulties VW have now built into the car.

Our Zappi 2 is working perfectly with my ID.3.

Edit, We don't as yet have PV.

kieran.

jasonc5432 wrote: »

Am I correct in assuming that most EV drivers try to avoid 120kph?

I cant speak for 'most' EV drivers but personally I I like to stick my eniro in sport mode at least once a week. I have 6k on my E-niro since I got it in September and get a full range of about 420km.

Motorway driving around 20-23kW/100km
R & N roads 16-17kW/100km
Around town approx 14kW

Have to say I love it. Only thing that bugs me is lane assist.

slave1

jasonc5432 wrote: »

Am I correct in assuming that most EV drivers try to avoid 120kph?

Depends on the car, we have a Leaf30 where 120kmh would drain it in no time, have a Tesla too and only 2% difference between driving at 100kmh and 120kmh on the motorway so I go 120 all the time

jasonc5432

Silent Running wrote: »

Yeah, I know where you're coming from alright. But having done about 300kms test driving the ID.3 1st Plus and base, I'm still not convinced of how well it will work. At one point it was cancelling the ACC and using regen to slow down to 50 (100 limit) for no other reason that there was a junction coming that consisted of one very minor road on each side of the N road. No reason to slow down at all. It also slowed the car, without ACC on, for minor junctions where there was no need to slow.

On paper, it's great, and will probably be great when the big update happens, but I found it a bit over sensitive. Maybe it was just a bug in the particular 1st Plus that I tested it on.

The e-Niro is based on radar only, but the radar seems to detect tight bends and applies regen when on auto. It looks like it detects the wall or hedge in the way and acts accordingly. It can catch you out when there's an open bend with nothing to detect.

It sounds like you have driven both? Would you have a preference? Thanks

jasonc5432

alfa_aficionado wrote: »

Definitely not as good as proper buttons but I find the voice recognition (once the system has properly booted up) to be very good and it will do things like turning the heated seats or steering wheel on and off without any difficulty. No issues with changing to a named radio station either - haven't tried setting cruise control with it however.

I tried the voice recognition to input navigation instructions ('navigate me to ...') and I found it to be very poor. I have heard it is sharper on internal controls though but haven't had a chance to test it

jasonc5432

kieran. wrote: »

I cant speak for 'most' EV drivers but personally I I like to stick my eniro in sport mode at least once a week. I have 6k on my E-niro since I got it in September and get a full range of about 420km.

Motorway driving around 20-23kW/100km
R & N roads 16-17kW/100km
Around town approx 14kW

Have to say I love it. Only thing that bugs me is lane assist.

What do you dislike about lane assist? Can it be turned off?

jasonc5432

slave1 wrote: »

Depends on the car, we have a Leaf30 where 120kmh would drain it in no time, have a Tesla too and only 2% difference between driving at 100kmh and 120kmh on the motorway so I go 120 all the time

I have been seeing this, as a clueless non EV owner yet, that some EVs seem less efficient at 120kph vs 100kph than others. Does anybody have any views on this specifically comparing the ID3 and eNiro? Thanks

Silent Running

jasonc5432 wrote: »

It sounds like you have driven both? Would you have a preference? Thanks

Well, I've owned the e-Niro since the 1st of July 2019, and I have an order in for the ID.3 Tour, so... The e-Niro is a great car and ticks loads of boxes for me. If I had the 2020 car I probably wouldn't change. I knew when I was buying the first edition that I would only keep it a couple of years. The little screen is an issue for me. But, everything works as it should and it's efficient, even on motorway runs.

jasonc5432 wrote: »

I tried the voice recognition to input navigation instructions ('navigate me to ...') and I found it to be very poor. I have heard it is sharper on internal controls though but haven't had a chance to test it

The voice recognition is rubbish, especially for the navigation function. I'm confident that the big update in Q1 next year will solve that.

jasonc5432 wrote: »

What do you dislike about lane assist? Can it be turned off?

The lane assist in the e-Niro can be turned off, but it never bothered me, and it didn't bother me in the ID.3 either.

jasonc5432 wrote: »

I have been seeing this, as a clueless non EV owner yet, that some EVs seem less efficient at 120kph vs 100kph than others. Does anybody have any views on this specifically comparing the ID3 and eNiro? Thanks

I took the ID.3 on a route that I regularly do in the e-Niro. I always end up at 16.1 kWh/100km in the Kia, but struggled to get the ID.3 into the 18's. Thinking back though, I think the heating might have been on the auto setting. That would explain a lot.

My use case would be different to most. I've no commute and the car could sit unused for days, but very long motorway journeys are common for me, so when I need range I have it in the e-Niro. But more in the ID.3 Tour with the 77kWh battery and 125kW charging. The fastest I've seen the e-Niro charge on Ionity is 76kW (for a very short time).

KCross

jasonc5432 wrote: »

What do you dislike about lane assist? Can it be turned off?

jasonc5432 wrote: »

I have been seeing this, as a clueless non EV owner yet, that some EVs seem less efficient at 120kph vs 100kph than others. Does anybody have any views on this specifically comparing the ID3 and eNiro? Thanks

I think you are over thinking the decision a bit.

Have you driven an eNiro and an ID.3? If not, thats what you need to do first. And then go with whichever one makes you smile most when you drive it.

Both cars are very good. They each have positives and negatives alot of which wont make any difference to you.

e.g.
- charge speed.... ID.3 is better at a rapid charger but you probably wont be using them much, so its better to go with the eNiro if that car makes you feel better.
- Would you prefer a 5 door hatch or the higher driving position of a crossover... all subjective decisions.


Both cars will comfortably do what you need it to do in terms of range so ultimately its down to what car makes you feel better, which is a subjective thing that can only be answered by driving them both yourself.

sk8board

it feels like the ID3 will nullify many of the mainstream options (ioniq/soul/Niro/kona/Leaf) for most people when Jan 2021 software updates and deliveries start in earnest.
It’ll be the top selling EV in Ireland next year, perhaps by a large distance.

That’ll also help with repair knowledge at the local dealership, parts availability etc too, if you need them. (a model 3 owner on the group here with what seemed a pretty minor front corner collision with a country road ditch had a €10k repair bill).

The Tesla is a different beast - more expensive and objectively a better car. it comes with a lot of Teslarratti baggage however, which will attract a lot of people to other options too.

Silent Running

sk8board wrote: »

it feels like the ID3 will nullify the mainstream options (ioniq/soul/Niro/kona/Leaf) for most people when Jan 20201 software updates and deliveries start.
It’ll be the top selling EV in Ireland next year, perhaps by a large distance.

That’ll help with repair knowledge at the local dealership, parts availability etc too, if you need them (someone on the group here with what seemed a pretty minor front corner collision with a country road ditch had a €10k repair bill).

The Tesla is a different beast - more expensive and objectively a better car, today. it comes with a lot of Teslarratti baggage however, which will attract a lot of people to other options too.

Wasn't that in a Tesla Model 3?

sk8board

Silent Running wrote: »

Wasn't that in a Tesla Model 3?

Yep, thanks. Edited above now

eagerv

sk8board wrote: »

it feels like the ID3 will nullify the mainstream options (ioniq/soul/Niro/kona/Leaf) for most people when Jan 20201 software updates and deliveries start.
It’ll be the top selling EV in Ireland next year, perhaps by a large distance.

Probably for the Ioniq and Kona, but the Soul/Niro will be priced similarly to a higher spec 58kWh ID.3. Having a 64kWh battery and a better range, the ID.3 will have plenty of competition..


I think the base ID.3 models will have less competition..

sk8board

eagerv wrote: »

Probably for the Ioniq and Kona, but the Soul/Niro will be priced similarly to a higher spec 58kWh ID.3. Having a 64kWh battery and a better range, the ID.3 will have plenty of competition..


I think the base ID.3 models will have less competition..

The Niro and kona are a few years old now and are simply a different propulsion system in the normal car, and I think people will see them side by side and go with the newer model ID3.

Once VW push their pcp rates behind the ID3 with a decent GMV on the other end, it’ll replace the golf completely (we’re on our 3rd 0% pcp vw golf).