European Super League - plans announced

For Forks Sake

That absolute clusterf*ck of an interview that Perez gave this morning, on top of the existing backlash, I'd say was the nail in the coffin for that plan.

Wonder when he'll do round two ?

https://twitter.com/M_OToole/status/1384630048205021189

The White Wolf

beakerjoe wrote: »

Legacy fans.... more corporate branding.

Fans are fans. Pathetic

It's a shame they won't be able to attract the Woolshed on a Sunday crowd now. GO TEAM.

PhlegmyMoses

bucketybuck wrote: »

Really? A buzz?

So what now, big cheer and fair play to the lads for apologising? No harm done and move on?

I can only speak for myself but to me they can't put that genie back in the bottle, I remain disgusted with Manchester United and don't think I will be viewing them in the same light again.

You mean the Glazers right? It isn't actually the club itself that is the issue here. Same goes for all the clubs with owners who aren't wanted by the fans. Likes of City and Chelsea are a bit different because their fans actually like their owners.

PhlegmyMoses

aaronjennings wrote: »

You can only speak for yourself, and yet you put words in my mouth, okay

I fully expect all 6 English clubs to be punished in some way, and whatever form that takes will be fully justified. It will suck, and ideally it will affect the owners more than the clubs, but I expect the FA, UEFA, FIFA to come down hard on this

This would also be an awful idea. Thanks fans, players and coaches who really rallied against this and helped us to defeat this terrible idea. But because your owners are ***** we are gonna deduct points/kick you out of Europe /whatever other rpunsihment you can come up with.

Richard Hillman

Richard Hillman wrote: »

So the Super League has gone away this time, we all know its just a matter if time though. It will happen.


What still needs to be addressed, and what Florentino Perez was on about last night is that young people are not into football as much anymore. They are not watching it or going to games. Costs are one thing but the entertainment market is so vast now that watching a football match for 2 hours is a chore. Even for adults, people are not watching games anymore. The TV is on but as soon as the match kicks off were on our phones.

That's something they need to adjust to because it's happening to absolutely everything.
Once in a while my YouTube app on the Xbox glitches and it loads without me being signed in. The amount of videos from people I've never seen or heard about with 5, 10, 25 million views each in the space of a week is unreal. There's probably more <30 year olds have watched every Sidemen (I've no idea) video than have watched The Sopranos or The Godfather or Schindler's list.

As much as it's partly snobbery and jealousy the whole thing of "content" all being the same has and will destroy whole sectors of entertainment industries. I'm part of the problem, I find it easier to watch/listen to 10 1.5-2.5 hour podcasts a week than to sit down and watch a film that has some semblance of artistic merit.

Football is slightly different of course. In the states even though TV ratings are down across the board it's still worth paying for sports because it's pretty much the only way to have a live audience in large numbers and try to make impactful advertising campaigns. Over this side with paywalls etc. it doesn't apply so much.

While owners will chase Asian money I think they may be a bit late to the party. How much can they make from YouTube videos? I don't think the potential market is anything like what it was even 15 years ago.

Francie Barrett

rob316 wrote: »

Absolute cretin neville is, saying we need a better breed of owner in the country. He owns a club backed by peter lim who owns valencia and put the squad up for sale in the last window.

Why people given oxygen to that mouthpiece is beyond me.

y0ssar1an22

beakerjoe wrote: »

Legacy fans.... more corporate branding.

Fans are fans. Pathetic

it may be a corporate term but it is true.

a legacy fan goes to the game and leaves, they might do that 10 times a season.

a tourist fan goes to the game, buys a **** ton of merchandise and leaves.

the owners want these tourist fans. a quick buck, and get the next batch in for the following game.

its more money.

WoollyRedHat

So it turns out you can get relegated from the European Super League after all.

monkey9

awec wrote: »

I would bet that the owners of Man Utd and Liverpool were the main drivers of this idea within the english clubs. This has been the long game for these American owners all along.

I have absolutely no doubt that it was FSG and the Glazers leading this alright.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Those teams knew what was in the new CL format and didn't like it so they tried to preempt it with this SL nonsense.

The new CL format was done to suit the Super League teams.

Zeek12

Very good few days for Bayern.
They’ve got one hand on Bundesliga title after Leipzig’s defeat tonight.

They must be laughing their asses off at all this !

y0ssar1an22

aaronjennings wrote: »

You can only speak for yourself, and yet you put words in my mouth, okay

I fully expect all 6 English clubs to be punished in some way, and whatever form that takes will be fully justified. It will suck, and ideally it will affect the owners more than the clubs, but I expect the FA, UEFA, FIFA to come down hard on this

i dont expect any punishments at all.

steve parish said as much last night.

aaronjennings

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

This would also be an awful idea. Thanks fans, players and coaches who really rallied against this and helped us to defeat this terrible idea. But because your owners are ***** we are gonna deduct points/kick you out of Europe /whatever other rpunsihment you can come up with.

I agree, I never said it was a good idea, I said it's what I expect to happen

monkey9

monkey9 wrote: »

I have absolutely no doubt that it was FSG and the Glazers leading this alright.

I can't believe Kroenke wouldn't have been right in amongst it. I'm sure he has plenty of banker mates in the States from the new Rams stadium.

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

The new CL format was done to suit the Super League teams.

Really? So why did they announce the SL when they and everyone else knew what was already in the new CL? Makes zero sense.

Also what in the new CL format, which comes into play in 4 years time, suits the big teams?

For Forks Sake

monkey9 wrote: »

I have absolutely no doubt that it was FSG and the Glazers leading this alright.

Kroenke, ENIC? I'd say they were at the front of the queue trying to get more cash into their banter clubs

PhlegmyMoses

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can't believe Kroenke wouldn't have been right in amongst it. I'm sure he has plenty of banker mates in the States from the new Rams stadium.

JP Morgan were funding it. That has Ed Woodward and the Glazers grubby fingerprints all over it

Arne_Saknussem

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

JP Morgan were funding it. That has Ed Woodward and the Glazers grubby fingerprints all over it

Apparently Gazidis brought JP Morgan to the party

PhlegmyMoses

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

Apparently Gazidis brought JP Morgan to the party

Weird, because Woodward himself worked for JPM and put together the financing for the Glazers to take over United for the LBO. Hence why it looks like one of their plans

listermint

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

it may be a corporate term but it is true.

a legacy fan goes to the game and leaves, they might do that 10 times a season.

a tourist fan goes to the game, buys a **** ton of merchandise and leaves.

the owners want these tourist fans. a quick buck, and get the next batch in for the following game.

its more money.

Have to admit. That really is horse****.

The so called legacy fan buys a season ticket goes to nearly all the games. Buys the jerseys and the food. Introduces their sons or daughters to the club and dresses them in club clothing bringing them to the games and any club Activities.

In an SMB business these are your bread and butter not fleeting customers that cannot be relied on.

Absymal and really poor understanding of business inputs.

If your talking Asian TV money on big bulk match purchases that's a different situation but you didn't you spoke about individual fans.

For Forks Sake

https://twitter.com/SevillaFC_ENG/status/1384582723801595905

Rayne Wooney

A 20 point deduction for each team involved would cause absolute chaos, and one of the most entertaining PL league finishes ever....

You’d have to fancy West Ham for the title with their remaining fixtures. Arsenal-Brighton on the final day could be a relegation shoot out.

monkey9

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

You mean the Glazers right? It isn't actually the club itself that is the issue here. Same goes for all the clubs with owners who aren't wanted by the fans. Likes of City and Chelsea are a bit different because their fans actually like their owners.

This is the thing, the owners aren't the actual club. For me, the fans and players and legends, the history etc are all the club.

For example, when FSG wanted to furlough staff last summer, i was delighted in how the club acted and fought that down.

I know what Man U are all about and their history and i certainly don't consider the Glazers to be that club.

That's what annoyed me a bit about Neville's comments on Sunday going on about You'll Never Walk Alone and it's what Klopp was referring to last night. The fans, the players, the backroom staff, the canteen staff, the groundsmen etc didn't make this decision. It was the lads over in Boston who currently own the club who did.

What's happened here is the actual and important components of the clubs have all stood up to their current owners and got them to cop themselves on.

xtal191

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1384631888841674753

monkey9

monkey9 wrote: »

This is the thing, the owners aren't the actual club. For me, the fans and players and legends, the history etc are all the club.

For example, when FSG wanted to furlough staff last summer, i was delighted in how the club acted and fought that down.

I know what Man U are all about and their history and i certainly don't consider the Glazers to be that club.

That's what annoyed me a bit about Neville's comments on Sunday going on about You'll Never Walk Alone and it's what Klopp was referring to last night. The fans, the players, the backroom staff, the canteen staff, the groundsmen etc didn't make this decision. It was the lads over in Boston who currently own the club who did.

What's happened here is the actual and important components of the clubs have all stood up to their current owners and got them to cop themselves on.

Great post

jayo26

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

A 20 point deduction for each team involved would cause absolute chaos, and one of the most entertaining PL league finishes ever....

You’d have to fancy West Ham for the title with their remaining fixtures. Arsenal-Brighton on the final day could be a relegation shoot out.

I think premier league would be shooting themselves in the foot it would be looked at as punishing the managers, players and fans... The 3 groups that stood up and spoke out when needed. Fines would be my guess as appropriate action but im not sure.

xtal191

xtal191 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1384631888841674753

Lol

Funny if it was true.

NIMAN

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

A 20 point deduction for each team involved would cause absolute chaos, and one of the most entertaining PL league finishes ever....

You’d have to fancy West Ham for the title with their remaining fixtures. Arsenal-Brighton on the final day could be a relegation shoot out.

They should be punished but they won't be.

Despite what they tried to do, Premier League will still be afraid to offend them.

And after all, any punishment of the teams will be said to be punishing the fans, the managers and the players, all of who had no part in this debacle.

Big Ears

wanderer100 wrote: »

Love to hear from Florentino Perez now after his arrogant deluded comments last night about "saving football"

Seeing his creation fall to pieces less than 24hrs after he says no club can leave, what a prat :P

In an odd way maybe he has.
If this ends up leading to a certain percentage of English clubs having to be fan owed, a reduction in tickets prices and more community support from bigger teams, then perhaps football will have a lot to thank Florentino for.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Really? So why did they announce the SL when they and everyone else knew what was already in the new CL? Makes zero sense.

Because it didn't go far enough to appease them.

Also what in the new CL format, which comes into play in 4 years time, suits the big teams?

Really? "Spare" spots for the teams who don't qualify directly based on history and coefficients. Extra games without risk for the "big" teams and giving them even more forgiveness for a bad result.

Liamalone

monkey9 wrote: »

For example, when FSG wanted to furlough staff last summer, i was delighted in how the club acted and fought that down

What about when they bought up the houses around the ground and when folk didn't want to sell, they just ran down the area until they got their way and the poor folk had to sell? Got the new stand though. Proper 'club'.

Get the t-shirts printed, 'ESL has rights too'

I really hope this shakes the status quo up. This was done in the search for more revenue (greed), fuelled by the need to pay top dollar for wages etc .... cap player wages and the need for more revenue declines. No offence to the best player in the league, but Kev, 400k a week is despicable - not his fault if clubs play silly wages right enough.

Who's greedy, players or clubs? It's pure menthol.

showpony1

While I'm happy that the PL and CL will remain - I don't like that any big decision in football should depend on whether Gary Neville is OK with it or not. Hopefully someone wrestles the remainder of the football rights away from Sky.

Tonight when all should be back to normal he is on Sky saying "I have been working in the background with a group of 10 others to bring in independent regulators" - nobody asked you to mate.

He had a pop at Liverpool football club which Jurgen Klopp retorted - and then he started getting personal and on his high horse "i employ 600 people in a pandemic, how about that?". Strange man.

Cookiemunster

For Forks Sake wrote: »

https://twitter.com/SevillaFC_ENG/status/1384582723801595905

Sevilla werent the only ones at it.

https://twitter.com/AFCAjax/status/1384608703211524097?s=19

Liamalone

Liamalone wrote: »

What about when they bought up the houses around the ground and when folk didn't want to sell, they just ran down the area until they got their way and the poor folk had to sell? Got the new stand though. Proper 'club'.

Get the t-shirts printed, 'ESL has rights too'

I really hope this shakes the status quo up. This was done in the search for more revenue (greed), future by the need to pay top dollar for wages etc .... cap player wages and the need for more revenue declines. No offence to the best player in the league, but Kev, 400k a week is despicable - not his fault if clubs play silly wages right enough.

Who's greedy, players or clubs? It's pure menthol.

Why the 'club' in commas every time?

What's the difference between club and 'club'?

listermint

NIMAN wrote: »

They should be punished but they won't be.

Despite what they tried to do, Premier League will still be afraid to offend them.

And after all, any punishment of the teams will be said to be punishing the fans, the managers and the players, all of who had no part in this debacle.

How do you punish the owners without punishing their investment.

The fans will have to suck it up if they want rid of the poison. And I think many fans would take short term pain to exit the poison

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

Because it didn't go far enough to appease them.


Really? "Spare" spots for the teams who don't qualify directly based on history and coefficients. Extra games without risk for the "big" teams and giving them even more forgiveness for a bad result.

Two spots not ring fenced to any particular team/country not based on history but coefficient and they must have qualified for the CL qualifying round, the Europa league or the Europa conference on merit in that season. Not even close to what these teams wanted which was guaranteed entry regardless of on field performances. Far less money than the ESL was going to have also and it's 4 years away!

Cookiemunster

listermint wrote: »

How do you punish the owners without punishing their investment.

The fans will have to suck it up if they want rid of the poison. And I think many fans would take short term pain to exit the poison

It was obvious from the PL statement today that there will be no punishment. A very long olive branch was extended to the 6 clubs, but not some of their directors.

Corholio

NIMAN wrote: »

They should be punished but they won't be.

Despite what they tried to do, Premier League will still be afraid to offend them.

And after all, any punishment of the teams will be said to be punishing the fans, the managers and the players, all of who had no part in this debacle.

But any punishment for anything will be claimed to do that? A club breaks spending rules.....'but that's punishing the fans', fans get caught dishing out racist abuse........'but that's punishing the club when it was just a few', a club breaks rules on agent fees and get a transfer ban........'but thats punishing the manager and players who didn't know'

There's got to be serious consequences, otherwise it's absolutely pointless. This has got to bring fundamental changes, not just letting the greed slip back in the window during the middle of the night.

y0ssar1an22

listermint wrote: »

Have to admit. That really is horse****.

The so called legacy fan buys a season ticket goes to nearly all the games. Buys the jerseys and the food. Introduces their sons or daughters to the club and dresses them in club clothing bringing them to the games and any club Activities.

In an SMB business these are your bread and butter not fleeting customers that cannot be relied on.

Absymal and really poor understanding of business inputs.

If your talking Asian TV money on big bulk match purchases that's a different situation but you didn't you spoke about individual fans.

it may be horse**** but its true.

what would EW prefer:
1 season ticket holder going to 10 games (maybe buy 1 jersey?).
or 10 tourists going to one game each (probably sell 5 jerseys)

the 10 will spend more than the one.

tourists spend more money on disposable trinkets in any economy than the locals, thats well known.

these clubs arent small or medium, they are global businesses looking to turn a profit wherever they can.


to be clear, i am talking about fans in the ground on match day.

Cookiemunster

Corholio wrote: »

But any punishment for anything will be claimed to do that? A club breaks spending rules.....'but that's punishing the fans', fans get caught dishing out racist abuse........'but that's punishing the club when it was just a few', a club breaks rules on agent fees and get a transfer ban........'but thats punishing the manager and players who didn't know'

There's got to be serious consequences, otherwise it's absolutely pointless. This has got to bring fundamental changes, not just letting the greed slip back in the window during the middle of the night.

The thing is though that while the clubs said they were going to join, they hadn't actually yet done it. Can you punish a club for something the haven't actually done yet? As I said above though, they're not going to be punished anyway.

y0ssar1an22

NIMAN wrote: »

They should be punished but they won't be.

Despite what they tried to do, Premier League will still be afraid to offend them.

And after all, any punishment of the teams will be said to be punishing the fans, the managers and the players, all of who had no part in this debacle.

if no punishment is meted out, it wont be out of concern for offending anyone.

it will purely be self serving to stay part of the gravy train.

Fromvert

Most fans would support punishment for the clubs and forced changes. If the PL/FA want to clip the wings of the big six, here is your chance. I've no idea what punishments can be legally handed out though but do what you can.

The British government have said there will be a 'fan led review' of football in Britain. What that will be and what will come of it will likely take years but maybe they will come out of it with hard lines drawn on some issues. But more likely if this will be bottom of the list of things to do and some half assed report will be released.

bucketybuck

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

You mean the Glazers right? It isn't actually the club itself that is the issue here. Same goes for all the clubs with owners who aren't wanted by the fans.

I mean Manchester United. I used to think it was a football club but these recent actions have just driven home footballs worst kept secret, that it is now just a corporate plaything. That may have been the case for a long time but it just feels like now it has been rammed into my face and I can no longer pretend otherwise.

They showed very clearly that United are one step removed from full on franchise operations, dissociated from the history of the club and very clearly now have a different mission statement than any fan would write. Might as well call it Disney United at this stage.

I'm not going to delude myself into thinking that it will ever go back to the way it was, that if the Glazers left that Manchester United would revert into some sort of club of the people and for the people, because this week Manchester United pissed all over their fans and made their intentions very clear. Whats that old saying, "if somebody shows you who they are, believe them".

I see already a few people making excuses, pointing at a few fall guys and convincing themselves that the clubs themselves are still pure if only it wasn't for those pesky owners. That line isn't for me. So be it.

Drumpot

Legacy fans 1 v 0 insidiously devious billionaires

Goals sorer: own goal

eagle eye

I've talked to loads of people and most were of the opinion that they weren't interested in a Super league.
Personally I'm not a fan of any Premier league fan and the games I choose to watch are Leeds and Villa games because they are normally entertaining.
I don't watch the big clubs very much anymore. I don't watch much of the ECL before the semi-finsl stage either.

Big Ears

namloc1980 wrote: »

Really? So why did they announce the SL when they and everyone else knew what was already in the new CL? Makes zero sense.

Also what in the new CL format, which comes into play in 4 years time, suits the big teams?

You do know Woodward and Agnelli were two of the main people who directed the Champions League into this new format ? They helped lead it's reform and stated they were happy with it at the end of last week !

Either they are genuinely happy, and it was something they were glad to fall back on, or else they were trying to create something so bad, that a ESL would seem palatable for fans.

There's the massive element which suits the big teams of 2 places for sides which failed to make the Champions League but have a good coefficient to get back in. That will routinely save sides like United, Liverpool, possibly Juve this year when they do **** up !

Liamalone

6 wrote: »

Why the 'club' in commas every time?

What's the difference between club and 'club'?

Club means club, those involved are listened to and they look after the members imo. 'Club' is in inverted commas because they pretend to be a club but really are just a corporate entity who doesn't give a toss about those within, just the bottom dollar.

All just my opinion, You asked.

NIMAN

Am I the only one who thinks clubs putting out meme's is a bit cringeworthy?

Unless they have a child or young teenager working in their online dept. Social media has a lot to answer for.

Maybe Perez was right after all

namloc1980

Big Ears wrote: »

You do know Woodward and Agnelli were two of the main people who directed the Champions League into this new format ? They helped lead it's reform and stated they were happy with it at the end of last week !

Either they are genuinely happy, and it was something they were glad to fall back on, or else they were trying to create something so bad, that a ESL would seem palatable for fans.

There's the massive element which suits the big teams of 2 places for sides which failed to make the Champions League but have a good coefficient to get back in. That will routinely save sides like United, Liverpool, possibly Juve this year when they do **** up !

As it stands it would save Dortmund and Lyon - not any of the SL teams. Not sure that's exactly what they would want. Obviously this will likely change before the end of the season and doesn't actually come into effect until 24-25 anyway. Bit of a gamble to be depending on that to get into the CL.

MisterAnarchy

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

A game of poker between the big clubs and Uefa to see who will blink first.

Big clubs flexing their muscles and trying to get a bigger cut of the pie.

I don't believe this Super League is in any way a realistic option.

Well the game of poker didnt last long.
They needed Triple A Golden Maverick but ended up calling with a 2 7 off suit.