European Super League - plans announced

Fr Tod Umptious

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The premier League decides who they elect to the league. Its a courtesy that it's the top 2 in the championships plus the play off winners.

Same way they could decide that from now on the teams in 11th, 12th, 13th and 14th are being sent forward to the champions League of they want.

The pl broke away from the fa. Its a separate entity.

The PL was an entity of the FA that broke away from the Football League.

Guy:Incognito

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The PL was an entity of the FA that broke away from the Football League.

The fa have no involvement in the running though and the shareholders are the 20 clubs. They have all the power.

TheCitizen

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It isn't at all. The pl is open at the behest of its members. If they (or whatever majority of them that's needed)decide that the best way to protect themselves and their income is to do away with promotion and relegation then the can just do it.


An English super League if you will.......

If they decided to do that there would be uproar similar to the uproar over this. If they decided to do that UEFA should ban them from Champions League and other European competitions for breaking away from the pyramid structure of football.

Guy:Incognito

TheCitizen wrote: »

If they decided to do that there would be uproar similar to the uproar over this. If they decided to do that UEFA should ban them from Champions League and other European competitions for breaking away from the pyramid structure of football.

Do you really think uefa give a **** about the fortunes of football league clubs? It would make little difference to them as long as the big clubs keep making their competitions. If anything it would cement their involvement .

The thing that needs to be kept in mind in all this super League stuff is that uefa should not be let slide in to a position of the good guys in football. There are no good guys.

Chong

One thing I was thinking football being such a global game especially the UK teams and their support in Asia, supporters there wouldn't give a flute if this happens, they will lap it up.

These clubs care about brand and not supporters ( customers ) British and Irish supporters are not even a consideration here. If they can make a fortune from Asia they will do it.

TheCitizen

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Do you really think uefa give a **** about the fortunes of football league clubs? It would make little difference to them as long as the big clubs keep making their competitions. If anything it would cement their involvement .

I think you might be playing devils advocate here. It's a fundamental structure in the game of football to have relegation and promotion. Why would UEFA ignore it if they decided to do that. Would you support a team in a league with no relegation or promotion?

brevity

howiya wrote: »

No thanks

What if they replace the nachos with Coddle?

RoryMac

Chong wrote: »

One thing I was thinking football being such a global game especially the UK teams and their support in Asia, supporters there wouldn't give a flute if this happens, they will lap it up.

These clubs care about brand and not supporters ( customers ) British and Irish supporters are not even a consideration here. If they can make a fortune from Asia they will do it.

How long can this continue to grow??

The last TV deal for the EPL was already down on the previous one I believe and the numbers worked out for this will probably be on a best case scenario. What happens to these clubs if interest doesn't continue to grow and the bubble bursts?

Guy:Incognito

TheCitizen wrote: »

I think you might be playing devils advocate here. It's a fundamental structure in the game of football to have relegation and promotion. Why would UEFA ignore it if they decided to do that. Would you support a team in a league with no relegation or promotion?

I've already said I don't like league with no relegation.

If they thought it was the best way to go for them and they could form their own closed super League, I've no doubt uefa would do it in a heartbeat.

Not a fan of of this.

Saying that, people saying on Twitter they'll stop supporting their team if it goes ahead is ridiculous. Never a proper fan if you're threatening that imo.

eigrod

TheCitizen wrote: »

I think you might be playing devils advocate here. It's a fundamental structure in the game of football to have relegation and promotion. Why would UEFA ignore it if they decided to do that. Would you support a team in a league with no relegation or promotion?

FIFA, UEFA & the PL are made up of Sepp Blatter, Michel Platini, John Delaney types. They don’t give a flying #&*@ about anything other than money & lots of it. The LOI, the Championship, Div 1, Div 2 are a mere nuisance who can have the crumbs from the captain’s table or go under - they haven’t cared about them for decades and many many more clubs would be gone were it not for local business interests and fans who love their local club.

RoryMac

6 wrote: »

Not a fan of of this.

Saying that, people saying on Twitter they'll stop supporting their team if it goes ahead is ridiculous. Never a proper fan if you're threatening that imo.

Well Celtic are a million miles from being involved in this but if they were I think I'd be done following them. Abandoning the principles of football for more money for the owners isn't really something I'm interested in

awec

sabat wrote: »

Playing devil's advocate here, what if Dublin got a team and the use of Croke Park over the winter months with the likes of Munich and Barcelona coming over every fortnight? Would you boycott it?

Who on earth would support this sort of made up crap?

howiya

brevity wrote: »

What if they replace the nachos with Coddle?

Just to clarify it’s not the nachos or cheerleaders that I have an objection to

The White Wolf

6 wrote: »

Not a fan of of this.

Saying that, people saying on Twitter they'll stop supporting their team if it goes ahead is ridiculous. Never a proper fan if you're threatening that imo.

There is, or at least I think there is, an unwritten contract between fan and club. A fan doesn't have to maintain their support if they think what the club is doing is morally wrong.

pjohnson

6 wrote: »

Not a fan of of this.

Saying that, people saying on Twitter they'll stop supporting their team if it goes ahead is ridiculous. Never a proper fan if you're threatening that imo.

Well this "breakaway" shíte is essentialy just creating brand new franchises for a brand new league.

All the "clubs" have zilch and are new franchises.

Makes sense fans say fcuk that.

Big Ears

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Do you really think uefa give a **** about the fortunes of football league clubs? It would make little difference to them as long as the big clubs keep making their competitions. If anything it would cement their involvement .

The thing that needs to be kept in mind in all this super League stuff is that uefa should not be let slide in to a position of the good guys in football. There are no good guys.

UEFA actually have rules on a league having a second tier, and without promotion relegation there would be no second tier.
So yes they might actually kick up a fuss over that.

Despite being money obsessed, UEFA do try and maintain some level of competition and rationale......granted while they accept backhanders and act dishonestly in the background.

TheCitizen

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I've already said I don't like league with no relegation.

If they thought it was the best way to go for them and they could form their own closed super League, I've no doubt uefa would do it in a heartbeat.

UEFA are not proposing leagues or competition with no relegation. UEFA are partly to blame for the way the game has gone but I think you’re adding 2 and 2 and coming up with 5.

siblers

6 wrote: »

Not a fan of of this.

Saying that, people saying on Twitter they'll stop supporting their team if it goes ahead is ridiculous. Never a proper fan if you're threatening that imo.

That does make them proper fans imo

siblers

siblers wrote: »

That does make them proper fans imo

Why?

Big Ears

6 wrote: »

Not a fan of of this.

Saying that, people saying on Twitter they'll stop supporting their team if it goes ahead is ridiculous. Never a proper fan if you're threatening that imo.

In fairness if (for example) Man Utd removed themselves from competitive football and promised to only play a friendly every 2nd year against Nantwich town, could you expect fans to continue to bother following them ?

This isn't the same as continuing to support a team if they're relegated, and ironically all teams involved would lose most of their fans if they were relegated within the traditional league setups as they are now.

Continuing to follow a team in this new setup would essentially be the same as saying you're more than okay with this new league.

alchemist33

For me, seeing Joel Glazer's name as a vice-chairman of this is a symbol of just what a sh*tshow it is, a soul-less moneygrab, taking clubs further and further from their roots and supporters. Maybe this is just progress and I'm naive and getting too old for this sh*t, or maybe it's the inevitable consequence of having foreign owners just in it for the money, but if it happens it just strikes me as ... sad.

theoneeyedman

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Uefa too are only money grabbing by trying to prevent a Super League, need to remember that.

Basically a power grab by FIFA to get a bigger slice of the European Club game, at the cost of UEFA. The EPL, currently the richest club league in the World would also lose out. As mentioned, UEFA were due to announce expanded CL plans tomorrow, so clearly a bidding war happening and a battle for control.
The clubs have done this before, and settled for a bigger slice of the CL pie, and that may happen again. I'd expect this to go on for a few years TBH, and someone like CAS will ultimately decide it.

The idea that money is bad/evil/clubs are money grabbing [email]b@5tards.....well[/email] hello! Have you watched ANY soccer over the last 30 years? Its always been the care of the richest clubs looking after themselves, and always will be TBH. If you don't want to engage in it, when don't, don't watch the games, don't subscribe to $KY (who have a dog in the fight of course), don't support the sponsors!

I don't like the idea, I don't want a constant diet of Liverpool v Real or United v Barca, it's soulless stuff.

pjohnson

Big Ears wrote: »

In fairness if (for example) Man Utd removed themselves from competitive football and promised to only play a friendly every 2nd year against Nantwich town, could you expect fans to continue to bother following them ?

This isn't the same as continuing to support a team if they're relegated, and ironically all teams involved would lose most of their fans if they were relegated within the traditional league setups as they are now.

Continuing to follow a team in this new setup would essentially be the same as saying you're more than okay with this new league.

How anyone thinks the proposed new franchises are in anyway connected to the current clubs is baffling.

awec

alchemist33 wrote: »

For me, seeing Joel Glazer's name as a vice-chairman of this is a symbol of just what a sh*tshow it is, a soul-less moneygrab, taking clubs further and further from their roots and supporters. Maybe this is just progress and I'm naive and getting too old for this sh*t, or maybe it's the inevitable consequence of having foreign owners just in it for the money, but if it happens it just strikes me as ... sad.

Just moving further down the road of turning football into a tv show with corporate clubs whose support base is plastic, no real affiliation to the club.

TheCitizen

eigrod wrote: »

FIFA, UEFA & the PL are made up of Sepp Blatter, Michel Platini, John Delaney types. They don’t give a flying #&*@ about anything other than money & lots of it. The LOI, the Championship, Div 1, Div 2 are a mere nuisance who can have the crumbs from the captain’s table or go under - they haven’t cared about them for decades and many many more clubs would be gone were it not for local business interests and fans who love their local club.

That doesn't mean they are willing to allow leagues to create competitions structures with no relegation or promotion or pyramid meritocratic structure.

howiya

6 wrote: »

Not a fan of of this.

Saying that, people saying on Twitter they'll stop supporting their team if it goes ahead is ridiculous. Never a proper fan if you're threatening that imo.

Is there a definition of a proper fan anywhere?

Does it include blindly agreeing with the commercial decisions of the clubs current owners?

rob316

FFP was brought in to protect the status quo and uefa couldn't even enforce it while man city and psg were blatantly breaking it. I think the clubs lost all faith in uefa after that.

pjohnson

awec wrote: »

Just moving further down the road of turning football into a tv show with corporate clubs whose support base is plastic, no real affiliation to the club.

And the average TV show gets good ratings for about 5 years or so? Breaking Bad/The Walking Dead managed 6ish. Game of Thrones violently shât itself in its 6th year.

LuckyLloyd

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Once UEFA threatened to ban players in breakaway clubs from their national sides, this was dead in the water.
I can imagine the response Kane, Pogba, DeBruyne etc will give when they're told they won't be playing the Euros or World Cup.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's clauses in their contracts they can exploit if their clubs break away.

Another defeat for UEFA in CAS, no doubt

Red Silurian

Any chance we could get a few irish teams involved? Could provincialise it like we do the rugby

howiya

howiya wrote: »

Is there a definition of a proper fan anywhere?

Does it include blindly agreeing with the commercial decisions of the clubs current owners?

Not throwing the toys out of the pram when a proposal is in place maybe? It's Twitter though so all fluff probably, and perhaps lads who may not attend a game and aren't that bothered. Fair weather fans I guess.

Let's see what happens. I hope it fails and I reckon its a ploy to get more cash.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Another defeat for UEFA in CAS, no doubt

Yeah, can they legally ban players?

They were shown up as spoofers by City in court.

rob316

Uefa are full of hot air, empty threats desperately trying to keep their cash cow.

Guy:Incognito

TheCitizen wrote: »

UEFA are not proposing leagues or competition with no relegation. UEFA are partly to blame for the way the game has gone but I think you’re adding 2 and 2 and coming up with 5.

I never said they were. I said if they decided that the best thing for their bottom line was a big closed off European super League (maybe if one with a couple of league and promotion/relegation if there were enough "big" teams) that they'd have no issue turning their backs on domestic leagues and going for it.

pjohnson

6 wrote: »

Yeah, can they legally ban players?

They were shown up as spoofers by City in court.

How could they not?

Plenty have got bans before. Mutu had to pay Chelsea 14m iirc after his appeals failed.

The French FA banned Anelka from their team.

NIMAN

The greed is strong in these ones.

TheCitizen

6 wrote: »

Not throwing the toys out of the pram when a proposal is in place maybe? It's Twitter though so all fluff probably, and perhaps lads who may not attend a game and aren't that bothered. Fair weather fans I guess.

Let's see what happens. I hope it fails and I reckon its a ploy to get more cash.

It probably is a ploy to get more cash. UEFA and the different leagues should hit back. Instead of giving in to them and give them more for flexing their muscles. Hammer the clubs involved. Relegate them and if they don’t like it, tell them to go ahead and start their own league with no relegation. Take control.

Guy:Incognito

All the talk in the athletic and I'm sure plenty of other places was the champions League reforms were staving off the threat of a European super League but with the conference where that will be sorted out coming up on Tuesday (I think) there's no way the timing of this is coincidental.

The top clubs that were apparently appeased by the Swiss model clearly weren't.

blueser

Red Silurian wrote: »

Any chance we could get a few irish teams involved? Could provincialise it like we do the rugby

Seriously?

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

How could they not?

Plenty have got bans before. Mutu had to pay Chelsea 14m iirc after his appeals failed.

The French FA banned Anelka from their team.

What players were banned from a world cup for playing in a breakaway league?

Maybe Uefa have it legally watertight.... I guess we'll find out soon if it goes that far.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

It probably is a ploy to get more cash. UEFA and the different leagues should hit back. Instead of giving in to them and give them more for flexing their muscles. Hammer the clubs involved. Relegate them and if they don’t like it, tell them to go ahead and start their own league with no relegation. Take control.

Again, can they legally do this?

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The premier League decides who they elect to the league. Its a courtesy that it's the top 2 in the championships plus the play off winners.

Same way they could decide that from now on the teams in 11th, 12th, 13th and 14th are being sent forward to the champions League of they want.

The pl broke away from the fa. Its a separate entity.

Not sure you're reading history correctly there.

pjohnson

6 wrote: »

What players were banned from a world cup for playing in a breakaway league?

Maybe Uefa have it legally watertight.... I guess we'll find out soon if it goes that far.

Not quite breakaway league but Luis Suarez (you might have heard of him) got sent home from a World Cup for trying to get into kinky bites with Chiellini. So yeah they are certainly able to remove players from Uefa tournaments.



Kudela has been banned from this years Euros for his racist abuse against Kamara.

ArmaniJeanss

"You can't play in the competitions we organise, if you join a rival organisation. Only affiliated people can play" seems likely solid legally to me, but I'm no expert.

Isn't there maybe some precedents for this - lifetime bans for people who left Rugby Union to play League, the darts split such that you had to choose one association.
Possibly never tested in court though by people with unlimited money.

BorneTobyWilde

A Club World Cup held in summer very 2 years would be cool. Clubs from all over the World, 6 groups ,top 2 through to next round. 500m to the winner.
That would be bigger that the actual World Cup .

Red Silurian

6 wrote: »

Yeah, can they legally ban players?

They were shown up as spoofers by City in court.

You're forgetting a lot of players in these clubs play for South American or African national teams.... Can UEFA legally ban players from playing for the brazilian national team? I don't think their reach goes that far unless they can sway FIFA!

pjohnson

Red Silurian wrote: »

You're forgetting a lot of players in these clubs play for South American or African national teams.... Can UEFA legally ban players from playing for the brazilian national team? I don't think their reach goes that far unless they can sway FIFA!

UEFA banned a Uruguayan from international games......

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Not quite breakaway league but Luis Suarez (you might have heard of him) got sent home from a world cup for trying to get into kinky bites with Chiellini. So yeah they are certainly able to remove players from Uefa tournaments.



Kudela has been banned from this years Euros for his racist abuse against Kamara.

I think you're missing the point. All those examples were punishments for breaking football related rules. Drugs, biting!

This issue hasn't been tested in court. After Uefa were shown up as amateurs by City, I'd question the legality of threatened bans.

After all the shenanagans of fifa and uefa over the years I find it hard to believe or trust them at all tbh.

RoryMac

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

A Club World Cup held in summer very 2 years would be cool. Clubs from all over the World, 6 groups ,top 2 through to next round. 500m to the winner.
That would be bigger that the actual World Cup .

That sounds sh!t to be honest, European teams hammering the rest of the world with the same teams in the QF, SF and final every time