Ex-Gonzaga Principal Dies (query suicide) Before Sex-Abuse Trial

boombang

Not a happy story this, Patrick Potts, former principal of elite Southside fee paying school Gonzaga died recently shortly before he was due to stand trial on sex abuse charges, it is reported in the Sun.

The report doesn't say Pott's death was suicide, but that's what it reads like.

I know the substance of this issue the alleged abuse and the man's death. However, I can't help notice that the Irish Times aren't running this story. I have a suspicion that they don't want to cover an uncomfortable issue about an "establishment" school at the heart of Dublin middle class society. This smacks of gross double standards. Abusers were able to get away with terrible crimes for years in this country because of the culture of silence. Is this another example of the same?

D15er

It doesn't appear to be in the Indo, any of the other tabloids, either of the TV news channels or any of the radio stations. Why single out the Irish Times?

Whatever this guy did or did not do, I think it can wait a few days until his body is cold for the sake of his family, no? Won't make any odds to the man himself.

Like, it's the Sun ffs. They're hardly the model for how news should be reported.

boombang

The IT styles itself as the paper of record and is most widely read among the Dublin chattering classes. However, you're right that it's fair to ask why it's not published in the Indo and elsewhere.

I'm no fan of the Sun, but I think this is a relevant and important story.

Regarding how quickly the news is reported, I think the new agenda moves on so quickly nowadays that there's no need to let a story sit a while before publishing. Maybe the broadsheets are waiting till the man is buried, but I still smell a rat in not wanting to cover an awkward story.

Galwayguy35

D15er wrote: »

It doesn't appear to be in the Indo, any of the other tabloids, either of the TV news channels or any of the radio stations. Why single out the Irish Times?

Whatever this guy did or did not do, I think it can wait a few days until his body is cold for the sake of his family, no? Won't make any odds to the man himself.

Like, it's the Sun ffs. They're hardly the model for how news should be reported.

Surprised they would even want to bother to go and bury him TBH, I know if it was someone related to me I certainly wouldn't be going to the funeral of an abuser.

boombang

Alleged abuser. He died before he could face evidence/testimony in court. No closure/justice for the complainants.

JimToken

boombang wrote: »

Alleged abuser. He died before he could face evidence/testimony in court. No closure/justice for the complainants.

The Sun just runs with anything that sells papers

Someone dies before they're due to stand trial, is it really a news story. Its prior to any conviction in the courts

D15er

boombang wrote: »

Alleged abuser. He died before he could face evidence/testimony in court. No closure/justice for the complainants.

You could also say that he was denied his chance to be exonerated.

It's incredibly dangerous to automatically assume that anyone accused of sexual crimes must be guilty, but that's exactly what you're doing here.

I've never heard of this Potts guy until now btw.

The answer to your question is that most media outlets have editorial standards. The Sun does not and that will always be popular but it does not make it right.

francois

boombang wrote: »

Not a happy story this, Patrick Potts, former principal of elite Southside fee paying school Gonzaga died recently shortly before he was due to stand trial on sex abuse charges, it is reported in the Sun.

The report doesn't say Pott's death was suicide, but that's what it reads like.

I know the substance of this issue the alleged abuse and the man's death. However, I can't help notice that the Irish Times aren't running this story. I have a suspicion that they don't want to cover an uncomfortable issue about an "establishment" school at the heart of Dublin middle class society. This smacks of gross double standards. Abusers were able to get away with terrible crimes for years in this country because of the culture of silence. Is this another example of the same?

Some people see conspiracy everywhere

boombang

I never stated he was guilty. I corrected somebody else's statement by saying he is only an alleged abuser.

I think the fact he was facing these allegations and died days before trial is newsworthy.

Spanish Eyes

Oh, back to the Sun newspaper. My lovely neighbour in his eighties takes a walk to the shop every day to get the paper and bits. Mask on.

Next morning he posts it through my letterbox. Recycling bin challenge for me lol.

I do have a scan of it, and to be honest there are reports there that would never see ink in either the INDO, EXAMINER, or TIMES.

ohnonotgmail

not sure why they had to mention gonzaga. the alleged offences happened before he worked there. I was a pupil at the school he worked at just after the offences are said to have taken place. he was an excellent teacher and i dont believe for a minute that he was guilty.

Galwayguy35

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

not sure why they had to mention gonzaga. the alleged offences happened before he worked there. I was a pupil at the school he worked at just after the offences are said to have taken place. he was an excellent teacher and i dont believe for a minute that he was guilty.

You seem very sure of that.

Its doubtful a few different people decided to make something like that up just for the sake of it especially the man who left a letter before he passed away.

Sounds like this guy took the easy way out to avoid a trial.

boombang

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

not sure why they had to mention gonzaga. the alleged offences happened before he worked there. I was a pupil at the school he worked at just after the offences are said to have taken place. he was an excellent teacher and i dont believe for a minute that he was guilty.

Is it not highly relevant that there were allegations of a very serious nature and that he was, at one time, the head of a school?

ohnonotgmail

boombang wrote: »

Is it not highly relevant that there were allegations of a very serious nature and that he was, at one time, the head of a school?

not really. they just wanted to throw that name in there because people recognise it.

ohnonotgmail

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

You seem very sure of that.

Its doubtful a few different people decided to make something like that up just for the sake of it especially the man who left a letter before he passed away.

Sounds like this guy took the easy way out to avoid a trial.

I would be pretty sure, yes.

boombang

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Oh, back to the Sun newspaper. My lovely neighbour in his eighties takes a walk to the shop every day to get the paper and bits. Mask on.

Next morning he posts it through my letterbox. Recycling bin challenge for me lol.

I do have a scan of it, and to be honest there are reports there that would never see ink in either the INDO, EXAMINER, or TIMES.

Is there more detail in the print version than in the online report?

Higgins5473

D15er wrote: »

You could also say that he was denied his chance to be exonerated.

It's incredibly dangerous to automatically assume that anyone accused of sexual crimes must be guilty, but that's exactly what you're doing here.

It’s also quite worrying when multiple accusers form a complaint.

Spanish Eyes

boombang wrote: »

Is there more detail in the print version than in the online report?

No idea I just read the recycled paper from neighbour. Never had a look at Sun online.

ILoveYourVibes

D15er wrote: »

It's incredibly dangerous to automatically assume that anyone accused of sexual crimes must be guilty, but that's exactly what you're doing here.

.

It always annoys me when people think the level of proof required for a conviction and thus a prison sentence must be the same level of proof we as individuals require to put someone's character in the 'grey' area for solely our own personal reference.

Outside of a court of law ....there is a lot between guilty and not guilty. Its only the law that is this binary.

boombang

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It always annoys me when people think the level of proof required for a conviction and thus a prison sentence must be the same level of proof we as individuals require to put someone's character in the 'grey' area for solely our own personal reference.

Outside of a court of law ....there is a lot between guilty and not guilty. Its only the law that is this binary.

Or for the story to be of legitimate public interest.

ILoveYourVibes

boombang wrote: »

Or for the story to be of legitimate public interest.

Its a very unfortunate series of events for all involved.

And perhaps our system needs better evaluation of defendants and their emotional states?

JimToken

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It always annoys me when people think the level of proof required for a conviction and thus a prison sentence must be the same level of proof we as individuals require to put someone's character in the 'grey' area for solely our own personal reference.

Outside of a court of law ....there is a lot between guilty and not guilty. Its only the law that is this binary.

One is justice the other is public opinion

boombang

Further reporting from the Sun on this sorry story.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/6094985/patrick-potts-abusing-gonzaga-college-ireland-jimmy-savile/

Horrible tabloid reporting style, but I think it's important that this is reported.

I had thought it strange that broadsheets were not publishing this, but I did note the Irish Times reported a court case regarding a Terenure College Rugby coach's sex abuse of boys. That goes against my presumption that the Irish Times doesn't want to report embarrassing stories about abuse connected with south Dublin Schools.

I note in the Sun article that Gonzaga did not respond to the paper.

Hotblack Desiato

Still not a peep on RTE or the Irish Times. I would have thought they'd have reported on his death regardless of the allegations.

JustAThought

Notwithstanding the multiple serious accusations I cannot believe that even the Sun would be foolhardy enough to print his photo alongside Jimmy Saville and compare him to him. Surely they must have had good reason the know that legally they would get away with this? Shocking of true regardless of whether Kilbarrack or Rathsomewhere.

humberklog

JustAThought wrote: »

Notwithstanding the multiple serious accusations I cannot believe that even the Sun would be foolhardy enough to print his photo alongside Jimmy Saville and compare him to him. Surely they must have had good reason the know that legally they would get away with this? Shocking of true regardless of whether Kilbarrack or Rathsomewhere.

He can't sue from where he is now. That goes for Jimmy Saville too.

steddyeddy

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

not really. they just wanted to throw that name in there because people recognise it.

Well that goes with the territory I'm afraid. I remember a colleague in England complaining that Eton was mentioned in relation to Boris Johnson's failures. Eton is a school whereby the children of the relatively wealthy go to get shuttled into university. Recent studies even suggest that once at university, these kids do worse than those from a state school. So more likely to go to university and less likely to do as well once there.

It's the same for Gonzaga. Whatever about the moralities of such a system, you can't say the schools aren't newsworthy.

doublejobbing 2

boombang wrote: »

I know the substance of this issue the alleged abuse and the man's death. However, I can't help notice that the Irish Times aren't running this story. I have a suspicion that they don't want to cover an uncomfortable issue about an "establishment" school at the heart of Dublin middle class society. This smacks of gross double standards. Abusers were able to get away with terrible crimes for years in this country because of the culture of silence. Is this another example of the same?

It could be as much the IT isn't tabloid and thus is less prone to innuendo about unproven allegations.

All the more shocking was the case a few months ago of the African orderly who raped an elderly hospital patient. Despite the fact there was no restrictions on reporting his name (which often exists where naming the offender would risk naming the victim) several outlets ran the story with the convicted man's name omitted from the story.

He didn't fit the requirements for a piece on the New To the Parish feature it would seem (although several other shady characters have done so)

boombang

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

It could be as much the IT isn't tabloid and thus is less prone to innuendo about unproven allegations.

All the more shocking was the case a few months ago of the African orderly who raped an elderly hospital patient. Despite the fact there was no restrictions on reporting his name (which often exists where naming the offender would risk naming the victim) several outlets ran the story with the convicted man's name omitted from the story.

He didn't fit the requirements for a piece on the New To the Parish feature it would seem (although several other shady characters have done so)

Yep, I think another side of the same coin that the paper doesn't want to publish things that might run against a narrative that they seek to uphold.

tdf7187

Better late than never...the Irish Times have an article up.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/abuse-allegations-against-ex-principal-of-gonzaga-deeply-disturbing-1.4402719

Odhinn

Much like the 'holy ghost fathers', now known as the "spiritans", there is a need to protect the 'brand', regardless of the facts or the truth.