Gyms

SAMTALK

bush wrote: »

What if someone is depressed and going to the gym helps with it?

Find something else that would help ?

Alf Veedersane

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I know it's not binary, I know it can mean many different things and I know people are affected differently, but it's a go-to buzz word for many now when they don't get what they want.

If you have mental health issues you should be seeing some form of councillor and talking about your issues.
If you're not at that stage, then I don't think you should be using mental health as a reason to get your own way.

Ok, first off I don't disagree that mental health is a reason to keep gyms open. But it's also true to say that going to the gym has a positive impact on people's mental health.

You're conflating someone's mental health being negatively impacted and them having mental health issues. They're not the same thing. Mental health is just your psychological well-being. Not everyone who isn't physically healthy needs to go to a doctor.

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Also, you may see it as someone being selfless, but I see it a virtue signaling, or making a non-issue more important because surely someone, somewhere must be affected.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm not disagreeing that it can be virtue signalling. Just that it is always virtue signalling.

Padre_Pio wrote: »

In this context, unless you use the gym as an escape mechanism for some form of mental trauma, then using mental health as an excuse is just conflating your circumstances.

I just see it as having a role in someone's psychological wellbeing. It can be negatively affected without meaning they must have a mental illness or be mentally soft. I would say the same about someone else affected by something that they do regularly and enjoy a lot that they can't do. That doesn't mean I'm saying that the restrictions on gyms or anything else should be lifted. Just that I understand that it can have a negative impact on them, psychologically without thinking they're headed for depression.

Alf Veedersane

cdeb wrote: »

Honestly, if someone can't go to the gym, then I think "upset" or "put out" is just fine.


People are being called out as selfish when they say that they want the gyms open for the sake of their mental health, with no consideration for the wider social impact in a time of pandemic.

We'll agree to disagree on the first point.

I was referring purely to someone saying it affects them or saying it affects others. Not in the context of it being a basis for opening gyms. I haven't read these so-called virtue signalling posts so I can't comment directly.

cdeb

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

We'll agree to disagree on the first point.

If only more of boards were like that!

Alf Veedersane

cdeb wrote: »

If only more of boards were like that!

Haha. No, look I respect your opinion and see where it's coming from. I'm just saying that I see it from a different angle and just because they're different, doesn't mean that one is wrong and one is right.

cdeb

Pretty much.

I also don't think there's a huge difference between our views either in fairness.

B.A._Baracus

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Jesus wept. If we're going to use the world war as the basis for what is acceptable to be pissed off about, then most people have no right to be in anyway down.

Cancer? Be glad it's not world war 2.
Broken legs? Soldiers in WW2 had their legs blown off so cheer up.

It's 6 bloody weeks.
If you can't hack it then give up. Life is going to throw worse things at you.

Need an example of such things? Try being unfortunate to get Corona and being in an ICU bed.

Alf Veedersane

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

It's 6 bloody weeks.
If you can't hack it then give up. Life is going to throw worse things at you.

Need an example of such things? Try being unfortunate to get Corona and being in an ICU bed.

I'm not arguing for gyms to be opened.

Using a world war as a frame of reference for what you should be able to 'hack' is daft.

Mitch Connor

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

It's 6 bloody weeks.
If you can't hack it then give up. Life is going to throw worse things at you.

Need an example of such things? Try being unfortunate to get Corona and being in an ICU bed.

It is 6 weeks now, on top of the 3 months (?) earlier in the year and likely to be followed by another 6 weeks in the near year, and again a bit later.

So i don't think it is fair to frame it has just 6 weeks. We are easily looking at ~24 weeks in a 52 week period where gyms (and cinemas, and restaurants) have been closed.

And only really closed because the governemt don't know what else to do.

B.A._Baracus

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'm not arguing for gyms to be opened.

Using a world war as a frame of reference for what you should be able to 'hack' is daft.

Is it daft?

I was reading something interesting by another person on another website and they made a good comparison.
Their point was that people should come together and wear masks and how it was similar to the blitz of England during world war 2. That being block your windows at night so no light gets through. Make it hard for the Germans. Is that daft?

As for the whole world war 2 thing in general... That generation hacked going through a bloody world war. So man up. So people can't go to the gym for 6 weeks... But whoop. Look towards history. Look what people have gone through. Does that still sound daft?

Making comparisons to another global event a previous generation went through. Which in my opinion was MUCH worse than Corona. But that generation got through things. I wonder how many of them were moaning that they couldnt do this or that? Wondering if family or friends are gonna come home from the war. What we moaning about? The gyms being closed? Kinda weak when you step back and look at things.

Do I still sound daft Mr "got cancer? Well world war 2 rabble rabble" ...

cdeb

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It is 6 weeks now, on top of the 3 months (?) earlier in the year and likely to be followed by another 6 weeks in the near year, and again a bit later.

So i don't think it is fair to frame it has just 6 weeks. We are easily looking at ~24 weeks in a 52 week period where gyms (and cinemas, and restaurants) have been closed.

And only really closed because the governemt don't know what else to do.

Nobody knows what to do with this thing. You may have noticed similar stuff going on across the world. This is affecting everywhere. Pubs are closed, sport is cancelled, music gigs are off. This isn't just about gyms here.

Alf Veedersane

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Is it daft?

I was reading something interesting by another person on another website and they made a good comparison.
Their point was that people should come together and wear masks and how it was similar to the blitz of England during world war 2. That being block your windows at night so no light gets through. Make it hard for the Germans. Is that daft?

As for the whole world war 2 thing in general... That generation hacked going through a bloody world war. So man up. So people can't go to the gym for 6 weeks... But whoop. Look towards history. Look what people have gone through. Does that still sound daft?

Making comparisons to another global event a previous generation went through. Which in my opinion was MUCH worse than Corona. But that generation got through things. I wonder how many of them were moaning that they couldnt do this or that? Wondering if family or friends are gonna come home from the war. What we moaning about? The gyms being closed? Kinda weak when you step back and look at things.

Do I still sound daft Mr "got cancer? Well world war 2 rabble rabble" ...

Yes, it is daft.

As daft as the brush in the UK who said that they didn't stay inside their houses during the war.

You're using a world war to gauge what people should be affected by. That's utter nonsense.

B.A._Baracus

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Yes, you do sound daft.

As daft as the brush in the UK who said that they didn't stay inside their houses during the war.

You're using a world war to gauge what people should be affected by. That's utter nonsense.

Or you are so pig headed and blinded with your view on this.

jam_mac_jam

I am so sick of listening to people compare everything to the second world war, oh restrictions, just like the Nazis, going through anything, oh you are not fighting in the second world war, you have no reason to complain.

Its getting a bit tired now, should we just change it to well you are not in the Somme?

Alf Veedersane

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Or you are so pig headed and blinded with your view on this.

If you've ever been bothered by anything that isn't a world war, then you need to man up. That's what you're saying. That is daft.

jam_mac_jam

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Is it daft?

I was reading something interesting by another person on another website and they made a good comparison.
Their point was that people should come together and wear masks and how it was similar to the blitz of England during world war 2. That being block your windows at night so no light gets through. Make it hard for the Germans. Is that daft?

As for the whole world war 2 thing in general... That generation hacked going through a bloody world war. So man up. So people can't go to the gym for 6 weeks... But whoop. Look towards history. Look what people have gone through. Does that still sound daft?

Making comparisons to another global event a previous generation went through. Which in my opinion was MUCH worse than Corona. But that generation got through things. I wonder how many of them were moaning that they couldnt do this or that? Wondering if family or friends are gonna come home from the war. What we moaning about? The gyms being closed? Kinda weak when you step back and look at things.

Do I still sound daft Mr "got cancer? Well world war 2 rabble rabble" ...

yes, its daft. It was a war seventy years ago in another country. its not relevant to anything.

Oh well people in Stalingrad lived in a cellar we should just put up with everything. Its as relevant to anything.

Why are we taking the myths of another country to justify anything or have relevance to anything.

Padre_Pio

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You're conflating someone's mental health being negatively impacted and them having mental health issues. They're not the same thing. Mental health is just your psychological well-being. Not everyone who isn't physically healthy needs to go to a doctor.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm not disagreeing that it can be virtue signalling. Just that it is always virtue signalling.

I just see it as having a role in someone's psychological wellbeing. It can be negatively affected without meaning they must have a mental illness or be mentally soft. I would say the same about someone else affected by something that they do regularly and enjoy a lot that they can't do. That doesn't mean I'm saying that the restrictions on gyms or anything else should be lifted. Just that I understand that it can have a negative impact on them, psychologically without thinking they're headed for depression.

Fair point.
The term mental health is probably vague. I think of mental health in the same way as physical health. If something affects your physical health, it may take time to recover.
Say, if bullying affects your mental health, then even if your bullying stops, it still takes time to get back to where you were, and if not going to the gym for 6 weeks affects your mental health, then it will take weeks of going back to the gym to get you back on form.

Seems here that people are put out they can't go to the gym. Understandable, no one likes their routines interrupted or the progression slowed. But to say that the mental health of gym goers is at risk is a massive exaggeration IMO.
You want to go, you can't go. You feel put out. But when gyms are back open, you'll be fine. For the minority who NEED the gym to escape something, I understand. For the majority who can't get their gainz, just deal with it.

B.A._Baracus

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

If you've ever been bothered by anything that isn't a world war, then you need to man up. That's what you're saying. That is daft.

Oh your one of those users haha.
Little twister eh? :pac:

Allow me to twist too...
So what you are saying is ... That this is the worst event human history has ever suffered.

is_that_so

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I am so sick of listening to people compare everything to the second world war, oh restrictions, just like the Nazis, going through anything, oh you are not fighting in the second world war, you have no reason to complain.

Its getting a bit tired now, should we just change it to well you are not in the Somme?

There are few people around who actually physically remember WWII and this is the toughest thing that many will have seen in their lives. They need to get through this to form judgements on it but it doesn't mean that some people are not having a very hard time with this. Nobody will come through it unaffected.

B.A._Baracus

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

yes, its daft. It was a war seventy years ago in another country. its not relevant to anything.

Oh well people in Stalingrad lived in a cellar we should just put up with everything. Its as relevant to anything.

Why are we taking the myths of another country to justify anything or have relevance to anything.

Corona is a global event. Just like ww2.
My only point was that, that generation came together and tackled it. Crying that gyms are closed is a little silly isn't it?

Like in my opinion, ww2 was the worst event in human history. Corona doesn't even come close (again my opinion) so the idea by mentioning it is saying that we, the human race, has suffered much worse. But we can get through it.

And when you look towards history, again such as a thing as ww2, moaning about the gyms being closed is nothing. It's silly. It's first world problems..

If you fail to see where I am coming from then we have nothing to talk about. Think I am daft all you want.

Alf Veedersane

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Oh your one of those users haha.
Little twister eh? :pac:

Allow me to twist too...
So what you are saying is ... That this is the worst event human history has ever suffered.

I'm not twisting anything:

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

That generation hacked going through a bloody world war. So man up.

That is saying that if they can hack a world war then you should be able to hack anything that is not as extreme as a world war.

And nothing I have said has even approached intimating this pandemic is the worst event in human history. I haven't even mentioned it.

jam_mac_jam

is_that_so wrote: »

There are few people around who actually physically remember WWII and this is the toughest thing that many will have seen in their lives. They need to get through this to form judgements on it but it doesn't mean that some people are not having a very hard time with this. Nobody will come through it unaffected.

Exactly, people are losing their jobs, worried about paying their mortgage and it just gets dismissed as oh it's not world war. So sick of the analogy.

cdeb

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Exactly, people are losing their jobs, worried about paying their mortgage and it just gets dismissed as oh it's not world war. So sick of the analogy.

Who has said anything about people losing their jobs, etc? Nobody has "just dismissed that" It's really unfortunate (and that's not sarcasm), but the alternative at the moment is that people start to get sick and even die in large numbers.

The criticism is for those who would feel sick at the thought of having to exercise in the locality instead of the gym, or for those who say that the gym should stay open because otherwise people might take their frustration out on their families at home.

Those are the people who need some sense of perspective.

jam_mac_jam

cdeb wrote: »

Who has said anything about people losing their jobs, etc? Nobody has "just dismissed that" It's really unfortunate (and that's not sarcasm), but the alternative at the moment is that people start to get sick and even die in large numbers.

The criticism is for those who would feel sick at the thought of having to exercise in the locality instead of the gym, or for those who say that the gym should stay open because otherwise people might take their frustration out on their families at home.

Those are the people who need some sense of perspective.

Yeah fair enough point. I suppose I am talking about the ww2 analogy in general.

I agree that people need to get things in perspective.

You can say that without harking back to the Blitz all the time.

cdeb

The blitz is kind of like Hitler - it's just so easy to throw out as an example and it can get a bit clichéd in that regard.

But certainly people throughout history have had to put up with a lot more than a gym being closed for a few weeks, even if that turns out to be longer than six weeks, which is the ultimate point.

Alf Veedersane

Talking about being more resilient is fine. Makes sense.

Anchoring resilience in WW2 though...

And we don't really know how they felt about the gyms being closed in WW2...

Alf Veedersane

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Fair point.
The term mental health is probably vague. I think of mental health in the same way as physical health. If something affects your physical health, it may take time to recover.
Say, if bullying affects your mental health, then even if your bullying stops, it still takes time to get back to where you were, and if not going to the gym for 6 weeks affects your mental health, then it will take weeks of going back to the gym to get you back on form.

Seems here that people are put out they can't go to the gym. Understandable, no one likes their routines interrupted or the progression slowed. But to say that the mental health of gym goers is at risk is a massive exaggeration IMO.
You want to go, you can't go. You feel put out. But when gyms are back open, you'll be fine. For the minority who NEED the gym to escape something, I understand. For the majority who can't get their gainz, just deal with it.

Yeah, I can get on board with that. I'm not saying people's mental health is at risk. Not for the most part. I do think it can impact on people's mental health but without them falling apart. People were dismissing it and I was just saying its unfair to dismiss it out of hand.

But I don't think the majority of gym goers would say it's a massive blow to their mental health to not have the gym.

bb1234567

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Talking about being more resilient is fine. Makes sense.

Anchoring resilience in WW2 though...

And we don't really know how they felt about the gyms being closed in WW2...

Yeh that's thing, while I'm sure the population could act more resiliently regarding COVID issues I dont think it's right to say that prior generations were necessarily built from tougher stuff just because they experienced a war, they got on with it because they had to not because they were more willing than we are to put up with difficult circumstances, I'm sure most of them gave out stink about for 5 years straight and hated every second of their life during that time, but what else could they do, there was no way out of it.

Im sure people who survived world wars also complained about trivial issues like their love life or their boss being rude at work or the weather and other comparatively minor issues compared to the war in the last decades of their life as living standards improved.We would also get through WW3 if it were to occur because what else could we do but get through it but it doesn't necessarily have much reflection on our strength of character really that we would. People's attitudes change depending on the environment they are used to, and that's not a bad thing. If we found the standards of living acceptable during the darkest time of history then we wouldn't have strived for the high standards of living we achieved and became accustomed to today

cdeb

Society is probably more egocentric these days.

Community spirit seems to be less, and people seem to have an inflated sense of their own importance (social media probably doesn't help)

So in the past, people could probably see the bigger picture, and come together in a spirit of nationalism (a dirty word these days, but it can just refer to the bigger national picture) to defeat Mr Hitler (oops! Didn't mean to invoke him)

Now everyone can complain, and take offence on behalf of someone else, and we should all have our feelings listened to, etc, etc.

We've never ever in human history had things better than now, and yet people seem to be unhappier now than at any other time (going on depression rates, suicide rates, etc). It's strange.

bb1234567

cdeb wrote: »

Society is probably more egocentric these days.

Community spirit seems to be less, and people seem to have an inflated sense of their own importance (social media probably doesn't help)

So in the past, people could probably see the bigger picture, and come together in a spirit of nationalism (a dirty word these days, but it can just refer to the bigger national picture) to defeat Mr Hitler (oops! Didn't mean to invoke him)

Now everyone can complain, and take offence on behalf of someone else, and we should all have our feelings listened to, etc, etc.

We've never ever in human history had things better than now, and yet people seem to be unhappier now than at any other time (going on depression rates, suicide rates, etc). It's strange.

Conversely though the social media outlet gave a platform for grievances that didn't exist before, this is transmitted to everyone and everybody's opinion is in your face at all times and easily found if you want to find it. Naturally the most outrageous opinions get most coverage and publicity on your feed and can create false perceptions that certain opinions are normal or common.

You can also gauge reactions and attitudes of large regions or countries or even the world which can embolden certain behaviours if you feell you have the support. This didnt exist as much before. Would we have a perception that the nation was so unhappy with restrictions without social media, I don't know. People would probably look at issues more sensitively as their opinion on issues would be formed through conversation and discussion (and thus a personal insight and understanding of point of view) with close contacts rather than partly or mostly through social media. We'd probably think about all of these issues in general less also as social media naturally encourages additional conversation discussion and consumption of opinion beyond what we would get from friends and family in our personal circles.