Gyms

KennisWhale

cdeb wrote: »

I'm not ignoring them. First off though, I'd again ask for proof of your scepticism that people are mis-disgnosed (the inverted commas around "with") But part of the reason so few people have died is because of the measures we're taking to stop people dying. It's also because hospitals can give some treatment to everyone to help them through at the moment, even in terms of oxygen therapy or respirators. If hospitals get flooded, then you have what you saw in Italy in March where people are dying in droves because they've no access to any treatment.

But your claim was that covid is "pretty harmless" to under 65s. I don't disagree that very few people under 65 die of covid. But I wanted to expand your focus beyond the black-and-white world of dying/not dying, which is why I brought in long-term side effects. Which you now want to move away from because, once you realise that actual summaries of doctor reports in the field isn't "anecdotal", you haven't really got anything.

Gyms help spread the virus. It's an indoor environment where people are breathing heavily over various surfaces.

Spreading the virus is bad.

You can keep fit outside a gym.

I'm not sure how much more simple I can make this.

You are making it black and white! "Schools are spreading the virus. You can teach kids remotely. I'm not sure how much simple I can make this". If this was the argument, you'd be laughed out of it.

cdeb wrote: »

First off though, I'd again ask for proof of your scepticism that people are mis-disgnosed (the inverted commas around "with") But part of the reason so few people have died is because of the measures we're taking to stop people dying. It's also because hospitals can give some treatment to everyone to help them through at the moment, even in terms of oxygen therapy or respirators. If hospitals get flooded, then you have what you saw in Italy in March where people are dying in droves because they've no access to any treatment.

Can you let me know hat happened with hospitals in March? As far as I'm aware, people weren't dying for not getting treatment, people who were old and vulnerable were put in ICU even though it was not effective in saving them. As a result of wasting ICU beds on the vulnerable, hospitals got overrun.

On the "with" point you don't want to accept, 94.05% of all deaths had underlying clinical conditions, remember this.

https://www.thejournal.ie/how-are-covid-19-probable-deaths-counted-5102540-Jul2020/

When asked how Covid-19 deaths are recorded, a spokesperson for the HSE told TheJournal.ie: “In cases where an individual who has had a positive Covid-19 test before or after death, this will be notified to the national surveillance system and reported by HPSC as a death in a confirmed Covid-19 case.”

cdeb wrote: »

But your claim was that covid is "pretty harmless" to under 65s. I don't disagree that very few people under 65 die of covid. But I wanted to expand your focus beyond the black-and-white world of dying/not dying, which is why I brought in long-term side effects. Which you now want to move away from because, once you realise that actual summaries of doctor reports in the field isn't "anecdotal", you haven't really got anything.

Okay, here is one of the first links cited in your long covid wiki article. Sounds pretty anecdotal to me.

https://evidence.nihr.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Living-with-Covid-Themed-Review.pdf

As yet there is no diagnostic code for ‘Long Covid’ meaning this experience is not
captured in routine clinical datasets. ‘Long Covid’ is a term widely used on social
media but is not a well-defined term and not a diagnosis used widely by clinical staff.
The lack of empirical diagnostic tests may mean that a number of different conditions
may be falling under a single umbrella term. This does not mean the steering group
feel that testing for the Covid19 virus is a prerequisite to being considered to be ill with
ongoing Covid19. Indeed, some expressed reservation about relying on testing,
having seen a number of patients who have had a series of negative tests but with
blood count and chest x ray clearly showing Covid19. It was noted that some people
have drawn parallels with post-viral syndrome, although the general view of the group
was that it is too early to conclude that the experience of living with Covid19 is always
post-viral syndrome. Indeed there is a possibility that the symptoms described may be
due to a number of different syndromes

The steering group felt it important to acknowledge the term used by people with
experience of living with Covid19 without committing everyone to using the same term
and to encourage people to be mindful not to put all ongoing symptoms down to
Covid19, when these may be attributable to other concurrent diseases.

paw patrol

I want the gyms being opened and i love the gym myself.
But the self serving and holier than thou attitude from many gym people that I'm seeing online is disgusting.


99% of them we so gung-ho for Team HSE during this and NPHET could do no wrong a few weeks or months back but now their thing is taken away and they are up in arms. No consideration outside their own bubble sneering at others because off licenses are open etc..


your health (and arse pics) are great but stop thinking it makes you a special status human.

KennisWhale

paw patrol wrote: »

I want the gyms being opened and i love the gym myself.
But the self serving and holier than thou attitude from many gym people that I'm seeing online is disgusting.


99% of them we so gung-ho for Team HSE during this and NPHET could do no wrong a few weeks or months back but now their thing is taken away and they are up in arms. No consideration outside their own bubble sneering at others because off licenses are open etc..


your health (and arse pics) are great but stop thinking it makes you a special status human.

http://www.plasterersindublin.com/

These lads can help with your shoulder.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

paw patrol wrote: »

I want the gyms being opened and i love the gym myself.
But the self serving and holier than thou attitude from many gym people that I'm seeing online is disgusting.


99% of them we so gung-ho for Team HSE during this and NPHET could do no wrong a few weeks or months back but now their thing is taken away and they are up in arms. No consideration outside their own bubble sneering at others because off licenses are open etc..


your health (and arse pics) are great but stop thinking it makes you a special status human.

What utter rubbish.

Tenzor07

Well, so while the NPHET-FFFG have plunged us back into a Lockdown again and basically made it "illegal" as such for us to go to the Mountains for a walk, the Golf course to play a solo round, or to the gym....

...just keep in mind that in reality if you go to the gym 3 times a week it's perhaps only 4 hours out of 168, so what are we doing to ensure your mental health is preserved for the remaining 164 hours?

Being on Boards.ie listening to some of the obNoxious cranks, or being on social media following "influencers" who regularly post pictures of their everso perfect lives and bodies isn't doing our mental health any good, so guard yourself from the many sources that can affect your mental health...

cdeb

KennisWhale wrote: »

Can you let me know hat happened with hospitals in March? As far as I'm aware, people weren't dying for not getting treatment, people who were old and vulnerable were put in ICU even though it was not effective in saving them. As a result of wasting ICU beds on the vulnerable, hospitals got overrun.

Did you watch the news reports at the time? Significant overcrowding, lack of resources, hospital staff working huge hours and not being able to work properly.

In Ireland, a lot of the older deaths didn't actually go through ICU; they died in nursing homes. So they weren't taking up ICU beds.

KennisWhale wrote: »

On the "with" point you don't want to accept, 94.05% of all deaths had underlying clinical conditions, remember this.

Doesn't justify your putting "with" in inverted commas. I've said before that asthma, diabetes and obesity are underlying medical conditions. If an asthma sufferer contracts covid and dies, it is entirely legitimate to say they died of covid, not asthma. Asthma is a lung disease, as is covid, which is why it would complicate matters - your lungs already are slightly weaker than usual, which is not a good start.

KennisWhale wrote: »

Okay, here is one of the first links cited in your long covid wiki article. Sounds pretty anecdotal to me.

https://evidence.nihr.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Living-with-Covid-Themed-Review.pdf

Not anecdotal at all. It says that long covid isn't a particularly well defined term at the moment (understandably) and that as such it's hard to research it exactly as it's still being defined.

Doesn't mean that the experiences documented to date are (a) anecdotal or "dúirt bean liom go ndúirt bean léi" sort of level or (b) don't exist (which is where you're going by saying covid is "pretty harmless"

KennisWhale

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Well, so while the NPHET-FFFG have plunged us back into a Lockdown again and basically made it "illegal" as such for us to go to the Mountains for a walk, the Golf course to play a solo round, or to the gym....

...just keep in mind that in reality if you go to the gym 3 times a week it's perhaps only 4 hours out of 168, so what are we doing to ensure your mental health is preserved for the remaining 164 hours?

Being on Boards.ie listening to some of the obNoxious cranks, or being on social media following "influencers" who regularly post pictures of their everso perfect lives and bodies isn't doing our mental health any good, so guard yourself from the many sources that can affect your mental health...

I agree on calling for a ban on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Toxic apps.

bb1234567

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well they're not doing very well if they're solely reliant on the gym, if that's the case the gym isn't working. You need to branch out and find other things to calm your mind. Meditate, read books on mindfulness, the goal of any human should be to be able to sit in silence and just be present and to be happy in any circumstances.

But at the same time you could say it's especially cruel to take away from those already struggling. I don't think it's right to dismiss the mental benefits of gyms, we all have what works for us, unfortunately for gym bunnies just have to accept that their outlet is a risk for now abd just make peace with that and make the most of out what they can with outdoor exercise

paw patrol

KennisWhale wrote: »

http://www.plasterersindublin.com/

These lads can help with your shoulder.

Hunky Monster wrote: »

What utter rubbish.

please explain , genuinely.

KennisWhale

cdeb wrote: »

Did you watch the news reports at the time? Significant overcrowding, lack of resources, hospital staff working huge hours and not being able to work properly.

In Ireland, a lot of the older deaths didn't actually go through ICU; they died in nursing homes. So they weren't taking up ICU beds.

Yes, exactly. That is why our hospitals aren't overrun as the very elderly were dumped or abandoned by the NPHET policy in nursing homes and not put in ICU. Whereas, in Italy, in the early uncertain days, they wasted too many ventilators on those who it turns out got no benefit from the treatment then could not give treatment to those that needed it.

cdeb wrote: »

Doesn't justify your putting "with" in inverted commas. I've said before that asthma, diabetes and obesity are underlying medical conditions. If an asthma sufferer contracts covid and dies, it is entirely legitimate to say they died of covid, not asthma. Asthma is a lung disease, as is covid, which is why it would complicate matters - your lungs already are slightly weaker than usual, which is not a good start.

Swimming is recommended for asthma sufferers. Pity gyms are closed though. What I posted confirms that the headline figures in Ireland for covid deaths are not just those that died from covid but in fact include those that died "with" a positive covid test on record.

cdeb wrote: »

Not anecdotal at all. It says that long covid isn't a particularly well defined term at the moment (understandably) and that as such it's hard to research it exactly as it's still being defined.

Doesn't mean that the experiences documented to date are (a) anecdotal or "dúirt bean liom go ndúirt bean léi" sort of level or (b) don't exist (which is where you're going by saying covid is "pretty harmless"

You're the one alleging they do exist and you have not proven any long term impacts do, especially to younger people. It's going to be hard for me to disprove something that may or may not exist :rolleyes:

KennisWhale

paw patrol wrote: »

please explain , genuinely.

paw patrol wrote: »

I want the gyms being opened and i love the gym myself.
But the self serving and holier than thou attitude from many gym people that I'm seeing online is disgusting.


99% of them we so gung-ho for Team HSE during this and NPHET could do no wrong a few weeks or months back but now their thing is taken away and they are up in arms. No consideration outside their own bubble sneering at others because off licenses are open etc..


your health (and arse pics) are great but stop thinking it makes you a special status human.

This is why gyms rile you, you feel they are full of arrogant / vain pr1cks it seems.

SAMTALK

KennisWhale wrote: »

Hospitals were empty the most of this year, up until the last few weeks. I think their mental health is pretty good, aided by queue-skipping in Super Valu, free Deliveroo and making tik toks.

For one who is obsessed about the mental health benefits of the gym you are rather flippant re health care workers

If you are so bothered about the health benefits of the gym you would find some other way of staying healthy surely

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

I had to go and check across the road. McDonald’s doing a roaring trade in the drive thru.

Gyms closed.

When are we applauding then gov again?

paw patrol

KennisWhale wrote: »

This is why gyms rile you, you feel they are full of arrogant / vain pr1cks it seems.

I go to the gym 5 or 6 days a week and have trained in one since my mid 20s (i'm 43).
Be pretty odd hobby selection if they "riled" me, don't you think? I actually stated in my post that I loved the gym .
You've an odd take on my post tbh

SAMTALK

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I had to go and check across the road. McDonald’s doing a roaring trade in the drive thru.

Gyms closed.

When are we applauding then gov again?

You do get that this is about the virus and not whether people eat McDonalds or not ?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/gym-closing-level-7-covid-19-5240833-Oct2020/

More waffle posted in the journal today.

Smacks of “the gyms don’t affect me, therefore I don’t care”.

Tork

Apart from McDonald's being bad for your health, I don't get the point you're making. One is people sitting in their cars buying takeaways from people who are wearing PPE and hopefully going about their job properly. Gyms, unfortunately, carry an element of risk. I'm as disappointed as anyone that my local one is now closed but there is risk involved in going to them.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Tork wrote: »

Apart from McDonald's being bad for your health, I don't get the point you're making. One is people sitting in their cars buying takeaways from people who are wearing PPE and hopefully going about their job properly. Gyms, unfortunately, carry an element of risk. I'm as disappointed as anyone that my local one is now closed but there is risk involved in going to them.

There’s a risk every time you get in your car or cross the road. I’d rather live my life with risk than not live my life at all.

Allinall

Hunky Monster wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/gym-closing-level-7-covid-19-5240833-Oct2020/

More waffle posted in the journal today.

Smacks of “the gyms don’t affect me, therefore I don’t care”.

She literally said that the gym does affect her.

"Being able to go back to the gym in July boosted my mental and physical wellbeing immensely."

Tork

Hunky Monster wrote: »

There’s a risk every time you get in your car or cross the road. I’d rather live my life with risk than not live my life at all.

That's not the point here.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Tork wrote: »

That's not the point here.

Rolling lockdowns forever isn’t either.

The_Brood

I don't understand what is this government's plan. So no gyms, and what about those of us who don't have a garden and don't live near a park? Exercise in the middle of the streets?

Once again poor people and/or people with limited access to exercise environments are left in the garbage can, with next to no one talking about it.

Alf Veedersane

Hunky Monster wrote: »

There’s a risk every time you get in your car or cross the road. I’d rather live my life with risk than not live my life at all.

Hi Stephen.

The trampoline still going strong?

The_Brood

The_Brood wrote: »

I don't understand what is this government's plan. So no gyms, and what about those of us who don't have a garden and don't live near a park? Exercise in the middle of the streets?

Once again poor people and/or people with limited access to exercise environments are left in the garbage can, with next to no one talking about it.

Skip
Bodyweight Exercises
TRX
Dumbbells
Swiss Ball Exercises

There's loads you can be doing with minimal, cheap equipment. That's what I have all my PT clients doing.

Alf Veedersane

The_Brood wrote: »

I don't understand what is this government's plan. So no gyms, and what about those of us who don't have a garden and don't live near a park? Exercise in the middle of the streets?

Once again poor people and/or people with limited access to exercise environments are left in the garbage can, with next to no one talking about it.

The options outside of the gym aren't limited to garden, park or middle of the street.

silverharp

Basil3 wrote: »

Skip
Bodyweight Exercises
TRX
Dumbbells
Swiss Ball Exercises

There's loads you can be doing with minimal, cheap equipment. That's what I have all my PT clients doing.

I m sure there are no shortages of gym equipment at the moment:rolleyes:

Alf Veedersane

silverharp wrote: »

I m sure there are no shortages of gym equipment at the moment:rolleyes:

You don't need gym equipment to exercise tbf

Padre_Pio

silverharp wrote: »

I m sure there are no shortages of gym equipment at the moment:rolleyes:

Are there shortages? Seems like there's plenty around. Donedeal and Adverts are fairly bare, so the second hand/cheaper stuff might be rare.
My local gym has been selling new equipment for the last few weeks.

Plenty of things like resistance bands online.

OldRio

You can go for a good run keeping within 5km of the house. I do (very slowly)

bb1234567

Hunky Monster wrote: »

There’s a risk every time you get in your car or cross the road. I’d rather live my life with risk than not live my life at all.

Insightful and ground breaking perspective on a complex topic with massively varying risks to the demographic in question

Very easy for you to say when the risk to you is minimal , how brave. Wonder how differently you'd feel if you were over 80 and had a 1 in 5 chance of dying from it not to mention severe complications