Remote working public servants not entitled to take flexi time.

horsebox7

Due to unprecedented cv19 arrangements public servants including those working in the local authority sector are not entitled to take flexi leave while those who are office based are entitled to take flexi leave which is unfair.

Divisadero

horsebox7 wrote: »

Due to unprecedented cv19 arrangements public servants including those working in the local authority sector are not entitled to take flexi leave while those who are office based are entitled to take flexi leave which is unfair.

Hardly the end of the world. That's just my view as a Civil Servant. I'd take working at home with
no flexitime. I realise we are all different in this regard.

It may seem unfair to you but whilst we are in the midst of a pandemic it is a minor sacrifice. Especially compared to what many others in both other areas of the public and the private sectors are faced with.

Addle

You don’t have to commute, don’t have to take time off for home related absences. You can’t have it every way.

pew

My flexi stopped in March when it kicked off.

I have no problem with this. While I'm half in the office half out it doesnt bother me in the slightest that I dont have any flexi.

I dont have to commute as much which is far better for me, less time on public transport.

But everyone is different.

horsebox7

Flexi time and flexi leave has always been a very important resource for staff who have to look after small children and a part of a sustainable work life balance for all staff. Remote working staff work the same amount and have the same output as office based staff yet remote working staff have no flexi leave. This has created a two tier system between work colleagues who do the same amount of work but from different physical locations. It's not the staff members fault that they have to work remotely for medical and health reasons is it?

FourFourRED

Scratching themselves watching box sets. Get a grip.

Sultan of Bling

horsebox7 wrote:

Flexi time and flexi leave has always been a very important resource for staff who have to look after small children and a part of a sustainable work life balance for all staff. Remote working staff work the same amount and have the same output as office based staff yet remote working staff have no flexi leave. This has created a two tier system between work colleagues who do the same amount of work but from different physical locations. It's not the staff members fault that they have to work remotely for medical and health reasons is it?

Well go work somewhere else if you feel so hard done by.

John Hutton

Addle wrote: »

You don’t have to commute, don’t have to take time off for home related absences. You can’t have it every way.

A lot of civil servants work longer than their typical hours, especially in times like this. There is no overtime. Previously "staying late" to get stuff done was "compensated" by being "credited" for those extra hours so you could take a half day or whatever.

Now you get nothing for working these extra hours(which for many are way more than normal), which many are with no complaint because of the crisis the country is in. Six plus months in with no end in sight the patience of some is wearing thin, which is understandable. This is compounded by some very bad managers who treat wfh like it is giving staff some grand treat and means they are at beck and call at all hours.

In most places this has been addressed to some degree by good managers and some fair local arrangements.

The situation the OP describes is not fair. WFH is not a reward, it is a safety precaution. If everyone WFH turned around tomorrow and said I am not doing it and will work from the office, the office would have to shut. WFH should not be penalised.

Again, this is easily solved by line managers having some cop on. I can understand the reluctance to allow all WFH flexi, because there will be that one guy who will "work" 12 hours a day.

Talk to your manager OP and document the extra time you work and list what you are doing to show its legit.

Divisadero

horsebox7 wrote: »

Flexi time and flexi leave has always been a very important resource for staff who have to look after small children and a part of a sustainable work life balance for all staff. Remote working staff work the same amount and have the same output as office based staff yet remote working staff have no flexi leave. This has created a two tier system between work colleagues who do the same amount of work but from different physical locations. It's not the staff members fault that they have to work remotely for medical and health reasons is it?

Work life balance?? All for it normally. But at the moment you're lucky to even have a steady job. I shall leave it at that.

horsebox7

FourFourFM wrote: »

Scratching themselves watching box sets. Get a grip.

Rubbish.

have2flushtwice

horsebox7 wrote: »

Flexi time and flexi leave has always been a very important resource for staff who have to look after small children and a part of a sustainable work life balance for all staff. Remote working staff work the same amount and have the same output as office based staff yet remote working staff have no flexi leave. This has created a two tier system between work colleagues who do the same amount of work but from different physical locations. It's not the staff members fault that they have to work remotely for medical and health reasons is it?

Try working in the private sector, you wouldnt last a week with that attitilide!
Be glad you have a job and get on with it.

horsebox7

Divisadero wrote: »

Work life balance?? All for it normally. But at the moment you're lucky to even have a steady job. I shall leave it at that.

This is an unfair comment.

horsebox7

have2flushtwice wrote: »

Try working in the private sector, you wouldnt last a week with that attitilide!
Be glad you have a job and get on with it.

This is an unfair comment.

supersaint3

Not the hill to die on in these circumstances...

John Hutton

GarIT wrote: »

The staff that aren't in the office don't have set hours anymore so their time is more flexible than any other flexitime. You have to work 37 hours a week, when you do it is up to you.

This is the theory, but very much depends on the office, manager and the nature of the work, IME.

StevenToast

horsebox7 wrote: »

Due to unprecedented cv19 arrangements public servants including those working in the local authority sector are not entitled to take flexi leave while those who are office based are entitled to take flexi leave which is unfair.

You will find ZERO sympathy from anyone in the private sector...

In fact, im a little bit sickened by your sense of entitlement...

Have you any idea how lucky you are at the moment to have that job?

Divisadero

supersaint3 wrote: »

Not the hill to die on in these circumstances...

Exactly. Just gives fuel to the pampered Civil Servant nonsense and Daily Mail readers etc. Not that they are interested in facts! We already have the moronic box sets comments coming in. Yawn.

Sorry OP if I was harsh. But in the big picture of what's going on at the moment I see it as a minor issue. Save your energy for the bigger battles that might be coming.

John Hutton

StevenToast wrote: »

You will find ZERO sympathy from anyone in the private sector...

In fact, im a little bit sickened by your sense of entitlement...

Have you any idea how lucky you are at the moment to have that job?

I left the private sector a few years ago and took a 15k pay cut to do so. I now earn a little more than I did then, but if I did a comparable job in the private sector to what I do now I would earn at least 20k a year more minimum.


The "benefits" of the public sector are not free. The public sector hired loads of people over the past few years, if its all that great why didn't you apply?

StevenToast

John Hutton wrote: »

I left the private sector a few years ago and took a 15k pay cut to do so. I now earn a little more than I did then, but if I did a comparable job in the private sector to what I do now I would earn at least 20k a year more minimum.


The "benefits" of the public sector are not free. The public sector hired loads of people over the past few years, if its all that great why didn't you apply?

I have...believe me....I am working on it...

yosser hughes

John Hutton wrote: »

I left the private sector a few years ago and took a 15k pay cut to do so. I now earn a little more than I did then, but if I did a comparable job in the private sector to what I do now I would earn at least 20k a year more minimum.


The "benefits" of the public sector are not free. The public sector hired loads of people over the past few years, if its all that great why didn't you apply?

So why did you leave the private sector?

Mrs OBumble

horsebox7 wrote: »

This is an unfair comment.

No it isn't. Not. Even. Slightly.

John Hutton

yosser hughes wrote: »

So why did you leave the private sector?

To do work that actually matters, and has a point to it that doesn't revolve around enriching shareholders. (I worked in financial services)

Pkiernan

GarIT wrote: »

We don't need to be a race to the bottom. The public sector should be setting the standard for work life balance rather than cutting corners for a profit at the expense of people.

The public sector should be about providing good quality service for all taxpayers (private and public).

thenightman

Hows it unfair? I've worked throughout Covid on site in work dealing with the public and other frontline services, putting my health and my families health at risk + have been commuting each day and will be tomorrow onwards too. I didn't choose to be sent to my section and don't see my work as a vocation nor did I sign up to be part of an emergency service, but thems the breaks and I'm being paid to do what I'm told and provide a service. We had to fight to get our flexi back in August as some floors in our building were doing 4 days in office/1 at home & we're all on same clocking system, which was a bit awkward for HR to navigate a solution to apparently (my heart bleeds)

I would be quite annoyed to find out that someone in our head office (which has been a ghost town since March) was sitting on the couch answering the odd email and banking flexi for it. Is working from the safety/comfort of home not enough for ye? I'd happily trade places with someone who wants my flexi!

eviltwin

John Hutton wrote: »

To do work that actually matters, and has a point to it that doesn't revolve around enriching shareholders. (I worked in financial services)

All work matters

893bet

Hahahahahaha ye should strike.

horsebox7

John Hutton wrote: »

A lot of civil servants work longer than their typical hours, especially in times like this. There is no overtime. Previously "staying late" to get stuff done was "compensated" by being "credited" for those extra hours so you could take a half day or whatever.

Now you get nothing for working these extra hours(which for many are way more than normal), which many are with no complaint because of the crisis the country is in. Six plus months in with no end in sight the patience of some is wearing thin, which is understandable. This is compounded by some very bad managers who treat wfh like it is giving staff some grand treat and means they are at beck and call at all hours.

In most places this has been addressed to some degree by good managers and some fair local arrangements.

The situation the OP describes is not fair. WFH is not a reward, it is a safety precaution. If everyone WFH turned around tomorrow and said I am not doing it and will work from the office, the office would have to shut. WFH should not be penalised.

Again, this is easily solved by line managers having some cop on. I can understand the reluctance to allow all WFH flexi, because there will be that one guy who will "work" 12 hours a day.

Talk to your manager OP and document the extra time you work and list what you are doing to show its legit.

Thanks for your contribution. At least there is some sense and understanding here. Unfortunately local management are not accomodating.

De Danann

horsebox7 wrote: »

Due to unprecedented cv19 arrangements public servants including those working in the local authority sector are not entitled to take flexi leave while those who are office based are entitled to take flexi leave which is unfair.

Flexi has been completely suspended in my department for everyone, working remotely or working full time in the office, nobody gets it.

I personally don't think it's fair those in the office full time DON'T get flexi when they have to commute in and risk themselves every day. I work partially from home and think I'm in an advantaged position compared to those full time in the office.

Unfortunately sacrifices have to be made right now to the usual perks for working in the CS.

John Hutton

horsebox7 wrote: »

Thanks for your contribution. At least there is some sense and understanding here. Unfortunately local management are not accomodating.

Well if you have no luck there I would just say to put up with it for the time being, not much you can do and it is not worth the battle to be honest.

horsebox7

thenightman wrote: »

Hows it unfair? I've worked throughout Covid on site in work dealing with the public and other frontline services, putting my health and my families health at risk + have been commuting each day and will be tomorrow onwards too. I didn't choose to be sent to my section and don't see my work as a vocation nor did I sign up to be part of an emergency service, but thems the breaks and I'm being paid to do what I'm told and provide a service. We had to fight to get our flexi back in August as some floors in our building were doing 4 days in office/1 at home & we're all on same clocking system, which was a bit awkward for HR to navigate a solution to apparently (my heart bleeds)

I would be quite annoyed to find out that someone in our head office (which has been a ghost town since March) was sitting on the couch answering the odd email and banking flexi for it. Is working from the safety/comfort of home not enough for ye? I'd happily trade places with someone who wants my flexi!

Should working from home be penalised? Don't think so.

horsebox7

John Hutton wrote: »

Well if you have no luck there I would just say to put up with it for the time being, not much you can do and it is not worth the battle to be honest.

Fair play. All the same it's worth highlighting that staff who work remotely are being penalised.

horsebox7

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

No it isn't. Not. Even. Slightly.

Should staff who work from home be penalised and treated differently than office based staff?

FourFourRED

GarIT wrote: »

Yeah you got your PUP or EWSS because I was at home scratching myself rather than writing the code for 25% less money than I could get in the private sector tomorrow.

I wasn’t in receipt of either. I have been working from home for 7 years and my job wasn’t affected in the slightest by the pandemic. Thanks anyway. You’re a true National hero.

relax carry on

I'm assuming you've read and understood the DPER guidelines on Flexi? Just in case, the below is the appropriate section. Can you enlighten us as to what you'd like local management to do for you considering the below?

4.1 How should flexi-time operate during the period of COVID-19?

The normal operation of flexi-time, or equivalent attendance management rules, including any flexi-time accruals and deficits, continues to remain temporarily suspended for those employees who are working under different arrangements.
This includes those who are working from home and working different shift patterns etc., which are required in order to support social distancing and public health requirements.
Flexi-time arrangements will be re-introduced with effect from 24 August 2020 and/or commencement of the organisation’s next viable flexi period. This arrangement applies only in circumstances where employees are attending the employer’s work premises and are working their normal, pre-COVID work attendance patterns.
For those employees where flexi-time remains temporarily suspended, this arrangement does not preclude employers from using clocking in and out arrangements for monitoring purposes. Any balances accrued by employees before the suspension of flexible working hours arrangements can continue to remain and be held over until the COVID-19 working arrangements are no longer in place.

gmisk

I don't really see a huge issue with this tbh.
People that have to go into the office have to commute etc.
I think most people would still take working from home given the current situation with no flexi?
If it really annoys you why don't you ask to work in the office? It is a temporary measure.

Addle

horsebox7 wrote: »

All the same it's worth highlighting that staff who work remotely are being penalised.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both situations.
Personally, I think wfh offers more positives than working in an office.

horsebox7

I believe working from home should not be penalised

phildub

horsebox7 wrote: »

Due to unprecedented cv19 arrangements public servants including those working in the local authority sector are not entitled to take flexi leave while those who are office based are entitled to take flexi leave which is unfair.

Waaa waa waa

I cant get over the entitledness of you. Absolutely people WFH should be treated differently than people working from the office. They are leaving their homes every day and risking their health and the health of their family members.

You can roll out of bed and you are at work, not commuting, you stop working and you're at home, not spending an hour or so of your day traveling home. You can put loads of washing on throughout the day, do house chores, run small errands throughout the day while they are in the office. They will they need to spend their weekends and evenings doing these tasks.

The fact that you think that it is a punishment and unfair that you get to work from the comfort and safety of your own home is absolutely outrageous, you should be ashamed of yourself. This is not typical times, you did not choose to work from home, the same they didn't not choose to put their health at risk by going to the office.

Be thankful for your job, be thankful for your home that you can stay safe in, be thankful for your health. And be thankful that every single day essential workers all over the country are leaving their homes every morning and risking their health in order to keep the country from total collapse.

Drifter50

horsebox7 wrote: »

Due to unprecedented cv19 arrangements public servants including those working in the local authority sector are not entitled to take flexi leave while those who are office based are entitled to take flexi leave which is unfair.

Good God, what is your problem. Thousands of people signing on today and all you can complain about is flexi time
I lost my job today, have signed on for the PUP again so I`ll look forward to receiving €350 per week
Doubt I`ll have anything at all to go back to in December even if Level 5 is lifted as this is probably the final nail in the coffin
Thanks for your concern for the private sector

relax carry on

horsebox7 wrote: »

I believe working from home should not be penalised

I'll refer you again to DPER. If you are in a union then you should address your concerns to them to see if DPER will change the present rules. You could always try contacting DPER directly. If not then you, your management and your organisation must work within the structure laid down by DPER

horsebox7

relax carry on wrote: »

I'll refer you again to DPER. If you are in a union then you should address your concerns to them to see if DPER will change the present rules. You could always try contacting DPER directly. If not then you, your management and your organisation must work within the structure laid down by DPER

Thanks for your support

horsebox7

Drifter50 wrote: »

Good God, what is your problem. Thousands of people signing on today and all you can complain about is flexi time
I lost my job today, have signed on for the PUP again so I`ll look forward to receiving €350 per week
Doubt I`ll have anything at all to go back to in December even if Level 5 is lifted as this is probably the final nail in the coffin
Thanks for your concern for the private sector

We're all in this together.

horsebox7

phildub wrote: »

Waaa waa waa

I cant get over the entitledness of you. Absolutely people WFH should be treated differently than people working from the office. They are leaving their homes every day and risking their health and the health of their family members.

You can roll out of bed and you are at work, not commuting, you stop working and you're at home, not spending an hour or so of your day traveling home. You can put loads of washing on throughout the day, do house chores, run small errands throughout the day while they are in the office. They will they need to spend their weekends and evenings doing these tasks.

The fact that you think that it is a punishment and unfair that you get to work from the comfort and safety of your own home is absolutely outrageous, you should be ashamed of yourself. This is not typical times, you did not choose to work from home, the same they didn't not choose to put their health at risk by going to the office.

Be thankful for your job, be thankful for your home that you can stay safe in, be thankful for your health. And be thankful that every single day essential workers all over the country are leaving their homes every morning and risking their health in order to keep the country from total collapse.

I believe working from home should not be penalised.

Drifter50

horsebox7 wrote: »

We're all in this together.

But we`re not are we ?
You sit there with salary, pension and conditions intact and up to 1 million people will be unemployed tonight.

Hardly a level playing pitch and while it may not be your fault the government is pitching private sector versus public sector now

How the F do they think we are going to survive on €350 .

No mention of payment breaks yet, all we hear is contact your bank directly. I did that yesterday and they told me they have no guidelines yet

marty whelan

horsebox7 wrote: »

We're all in this together.

You gave away the wind up with this comment. I'm a civil servant btw.

relax carry on

horsebox7 wrote: »

Thanks for your support

You've been given what the rules are and your options. You could make a mature rational decision from the information available to you or continue to moan. You must be an absolute joy to manage.

I’m a civil servant myself. Came from the private sector a few years back. I can honestly say that anyone working from home should not have the benefit of flexitime

In my department there were a few pisstakers, once the pandemic started one colleague gave a BS story about how she needed to be home to care for her teenager as they had asthma - total crap. Anyway this one in particular clocked up about 10 hours flexitime in her first week. Logging in at 8 am and logged out at 7pm while doing absolutely nothing all day. In fact on a few occasions she’d send a Snapchat while waiting in line for a shop and another time sent a photo “wrecked after me 5km jog”. All of these came in core hours - a total disgrace!

She then put up a post of her clock at the end of the week with a load of smiley faces.

Rrrrrr2

horsebox7 wrote: »

Due to unprecedented cv19 arrangements public servants including those working in the local authority sector are not entitled to take flexi leave while those who are office based are entitled to take flexi leave which is unfair.

TS- hundreds of thousands losing their jobs and you lot are worried about clock watching- really you lot another planet.
All non essential public servants should be PUP- lots of made up nothing jobs in various quangos that we could gladly live without

Divisadero

Divisadero wrote: »

Sorry OP if I was harsh.

I don't think I am anymore. It's unreal that you are still persisting with this. It seems you are incapable of taking off your blinkers and seeing this from the point of view of others reading your posts and how you come across. Talk about first world problems in a time of crisis. For example those in many parts of the private sector and on the public sector frontline. You are also providing ammo to public service critics who actually believe all the propaganda that we do the bare minimum. Which is far from the case. Have a look at all the threads on here with people desperate to find work in the public sector. Those who are in the midst of trying to get help with jumping through all the hoops just to get to the interview stage to make it onto a recruitment panel. Then consider counting your blessings.

Unless this is all a piss take and you are trolling. But I fear you're legit.

pew

This has to be a wind up to make the Public Sector look like entitled pricks.

OP if this isnt I have no idea what to say to you. Thousands of people had to sign on to PUP again today because they lost their jobs and all you can think of is flexi.

Get a grip OP and just be thankful you can still work minus both the financial and physical cost of commuting.

I'm an existing Civil Servant and very thankful I can still work be it at home or in the office. I dont give a damn about flexi at the moment, it doesnt matter right now.

And no I'm not sitting around scratching my arse looking at box sets or Netflix all day. I'm quite busy when I'm working at home.

horsebox7

I don't believe working from home should be penalised