Star Trek Discovery Season 3 episode 2- That Hope is You, Part 2

sioda

Yup I'm in the enjoyed that ep camp, nothing amazing but entertaining and again looking forward to next week.

Sparko

I enjoyed it. Predictable in parts but still fun and good to try and flesh out the rest of em rather than just Michael. Hopefully something that will continue.

I will be fairly surprised if the decision made regarding the villain of the episode doesn't come back to bite them.

PhiloCypher

I thought this was pretty decent. The Saloon scene nicely encapsulated nu-trek vs old trek values . Georgiu representing nu-treks snap necks and ask questions later attitude versus Saru's more merciful Federation values. With the survivor(Kal?) choosing the latter and letting zaher go , albeit with very little chance survival out in the open .

Stark

flazio wrote: »

That's something I noticed in this episode, at least 6 characters are addressed as "Commander" Saru, Giorgiou, Nahn, Burnham, Reno and Stamets. Now hopefully a few of those are Lieutenant Commanders otherwise we could have a real boring power play dragged out.

All but Stamets are full Commanders according to Memory Alpha. I can see how you'd end up with so many as Nhan and Reno were effectively picked up as strays without being officially assigned. I can't figure out how Giorgiou picked up Commander rank along the way though.

Enterprise-D had 3 Commanders by Season 7 FWIW (Riker, Troi and Crusher). Pretty much the whole main cast of the original Enterprise had been promoted to Commander by the time of the movies. Montgomery Scott being promoted to "Captain of Engineering".

As an aside, I don't like the way rank isn't clearly visible on the Discovery uniforms. You'd need eyesight like Linus to make out the pips on the com badges.

fritzelly

Asked on page 1 - no one notice the blooper at about 21 minutes?

Stark

Nope, just watched the scene again and can't spot anything.

fritzelly

Stark wrote: »

Nope, just watched the scene again and can't spot anything.

There is people far in the background walking around - white jacket, blue jacket and someone else (cannot remember)

Could have reshot the scene or edited them out

~Rebel~

Felt much more like Trek than the first episode at least.

I hated the first episode as a Star Trek show, but actually looking back it wasn't so bad as it's own entirely different thing, like a Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets spin off show or something. Or even a Star Wars spin off. Actually, the way the first episode dealt with the Federation was not far removed from the way the original trilogy dealt with the Jedi.

So it's weird for episode two to go back to basics, giving us such completely opposing styles of show in the first two weeks. Wonder which is more representative of what the season will be.

Speaking of the season, I really really really hope it's not going to be a season of them saving the universe and bringing back dilithium, or finding a way to go back in time to stop The Burn or something... I just want to see them as a ship in this new reality, and having to deal with that new reality, and that's it. Maybe bring some exploration and fuel for stories into it by having them use their now-rare warp abilities to move between sectors getting long range sensors back up and running so all the disparate Federation settlements can be in contact again. Just a nice simple first step towards a long road, rather than a big hey-presto universe-changing-in-an-instant thing.

Side note; funny to have Saru talking about the ideals of the Federation and the way they do things in making sure the courier's life was spared, while last week Michael was vaporizing lads left right and centre!

Weber was very good. It's a pity if he's done and gone.

Padre_Pio

fritzelly wrote: »

There is people far in the background walking around - white jacket, blue jacket and someone else (cannot remember)

Could have reshot the scene or edited them out

They're meant to be there :pac:

TheValeyard

I liked the Michael free parts. Was good episode. And actually had some other characters invovled

jhegarty

I was worried for a second the crew could solve an issue without Michael.

~Rebel~

jhegarty wrote: »

I was worried for a second the crew could solve an issue without Michael.

On that moment, was anyone else a bit underwhelmed with her announcement of how long she'd been there?

She appears with this loooong hair, and is saying "i've been searching for you for so long!" etc, and I was kind of thinking, "oh wow, like 5? 10 years? that's kind of an interesting choice!", and then it was one year.

And I mean a year is a long enough time, sure, but it doesn't quite pack the same punch as her potentially having really settled there, and being in the process of building some sort of new life. A year is more like, "i've been backpacking around, seen some stuff, got braids, ready to go back to normal".

Rawr

~Rebel~ wrote: »

On that moment, was anyone else a bit underwhelmed with her announcement of how long she'd been there?

She appears with this loooong hair, and is saying "i've been searching for you for so long!" etc, and I was kind of thinking, "oh wow, like 5? 10 years? that's kind of an interesting choice!", and then it was one year.

And I mean a year is a long enough time, sure, but it doesn't quite pack the same punch as her potentially having really settled there, and being in the process of building some sort of new life. A year is more like, "i've been backpacking around, seen some stuff, got braids, ready to go back to normal".

Kind of felt that too. Was thinking "Ooo, it's been 5, 10, *15* years?"

A year...one damn year....to find someone who you might have never actually seen given that it was equally possible that Discovery could have landed 1000 years after she was dead. One year....

So, I did wait until this weekend to start watching, and did it as a double-bill.
First impression is that I really can't stand Micheal...I had hoped that they'd do a better job with her writing, but they still seem to be married to the idea of giving her grand, poorly grounded emotional scenes that seem to ignore the plot sometimes.

Book: The Federation is gone

Micheal: But...that is *impossible*

Book: No...it's gone.

Micheal: That's impossible!! It can't be gone! It's impossible.

FFS...she had only just come out of a war with the Klingons where they were very close to destroying the Federation..and now it's destruction is *impossible*?! This should not be beyond her belief.

The first part was the weakest, but at least we got some familiar beats from the Trek universe. Looks like the Orions are up to their old tricks...

I did kind of like Book. If they are building him up as a main character, I wouldn't mind.

The second part was a lot better, if anything because of Acting-Captain Saru. He's one of the few things I have constantly enjoyed in this show and he's remained the most *Starfleet* element they've got there. Some of the best moments came from him. Low points were Georgio being as cartoonish as ever and Jet being a b*tch to everyone. I get that this is supposed to be Jet's character quirk at play for laughs, but it gets tiresome.

The end was incredibly annoying. It would have been a lot more satisifying to have the crew bandy together and escape just-in-time thanks to their own talents and wits. It would have been an earned win and an important character defining moment, cementing Saru as their leader.

Instead they Micheal it all up.

What that moment did do was remind me that I was actually enjoying Part 2 a bit until she turned up to save the day. Discovery without Micheal is an alright Trek show. It would still need work, but it was salvageable.

While Micheal was gone, I started to wonder other things like, what if Georgio uses this time to rebuild a new Terran Empire? What if The Federation was reborn into a war with this New Empire?

Also, have the Romulans used this time to rebuild their own Empire? They use singularity drives to run their ships. "The Burn" should not have hurt them. Could Earth be under Romulan control?

There's plenty that could be done with this idea...but my main problem, and the problem I've had since the first few episodes of Season 1 is Micheal.
On watching this I fear that they haven't learned a thing from previous seasons and I fear that Micheal's rescue of Discovery is a metaphor for the entire plot going forward. Micheal is going to save the future...and the Discovery crew get to help her...maybe.

If this is how they play it, I'm not sure if I'll manage the whole season. As it stands, unlike with Lower Decks, I don't think I'll be actively checking for new episodes each week. Right now I'm kind of disappointed, as I had really hoped they would improve this show and use this chance to "reboot" it...but this currently feels no different to previous seasons. What is sad is that I'm not surprised.

The irony is, given the title of these episodes, I don't have a lot of hope for this show right now.

alchemist33

Rawr wrote: »

Kind of felt that too. Was thinking "Ooo, it's been 5, 10, *15* years?"

A year...one damn year....to find someone who you might have never actually seen given that it was equally possible that Discovery could have landed 1000 years after she was dead. One year....

So, I did wait until this weekend to start watching, and did it as a double-bill.
First impression is that I really can't stand Micheal...I had hoped that they'd do a better job with her writing, but they still seem to be married to the idea of giving her grand, poorly grounded emotional scenes that seem to ignore the plot sometimes.

Book: The Federation is gone

Micheal: But...that is *impossible*

Book: No...it's gone.

Micheal: That's impossible!! It can't be gone! It's impossible.

FFS...she had only just come out of a war with the Klingons where they were very close to destroying the Federation..and now it's destruction is *impossible*?! This should not be beyond her belief.

The first part was the weakest, but at least we got some familiar beats from the Trek universe. Looks like the Orions are up to their old tricks...

I did kind of like Book. If they are building him up as a main character, I wouldn't mind.

The second part was a lot better, if anything because of Acting-Captain Saru. He's one of the few things I have constantly enjoyed in this show and he's remained the most *Starfleet* element they've got there. Some of the best moments came from him. Low points were Georgio being as cartoonish as ever and Jet being a b*tch to everyone. I get that this is supposed to be Jet's character quirk at play for laughs, but it gets tiresome.

The end was incredibly annoying. It would have been a lot more satisifying to have the crew bandy together and escape just-in-time thanks to their own talents and wits. It would have been an earned win and an important character defining moment, cementing Saru as their leader.

Instead they Micheal it all up.

What that moment did do was remind me that I was actually enjoying Part 2 a bit until she turned up to save the day. Discovery without Micheal is an alright Trek show. It would still need work, but it was salvageable.

While Micheal was gone, I started to wonder other things like, what if Georgio uses this time to rebuild a new Terran Empire? What if The Federation was reborn into a war with this New Empire?

Also, have the Romulans used this time to rebuild their own Empire? They use singularity drives to run their ships. "The Burn" should not have hurt them. Could Earth be under Romulan control?

There's plenty that could be done with this idea...but my main problem, and the problem I've had since the first few episodes of Season 1 is Micheal.
On watching this I fear that they haven't learned a thing from previous seasons and I fear that Micheal's rescue of Discovery is a metaphor for the entire plot going forward. Micheal is going to save the future...and the Discovery crew get to help her...maybe.

If this is how they play it, I'm not sure if I'll manage the whole season. As it stands, unlike with Lower Decks, I don't think I'll be actively checking for new episodes each week. Right now I'm kind of disappointed, as I had really hoped they would improve this show and use this chance to "reboot" it...but this currently feels no different to previous seasons. What is sad is that I'm not surprised.

The irony is, given the title of these episodes, I don't have a lot of hope for this show right now.

Couldn't agree more with pretty much everything here. It was all going so well - and I was sitting there thinking I knew exactly why I was enjoying this episode more - until you-know-who showed up.

And Saru is the character highlight for me. The rest are all very one-note. Tilly annoying, Georgiou psychopath, random bridge crew member boring.

EltonJohn69

~Rebel~ wrote: »

On that moment, was anyone else a bit underwhelmed with her announcement of how long she'd been there?

She appears with this loooong hair, and is saying "i've been searching for you for so long!" etc, and I was kind of thinking, "oh wow, like 5? 10 years? that's kind of an interesting choice!", and then it was one year.

And I mean a year is a long enough time, sure, but it doesn't quite pack the same punch as her potentially having really settled there, and being in the process of building some sort of new life. A year is more like, "i've been backpacking around, seen some stuff, got braids, ready to go back to normal".

They should have made it like 200 years and have it been Michael burmans great grand daughter rescuing them (Michael dead)

Rawr

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

They should have made it like 200 years and have it been Michael burmans great grand daughter rescuing them (Michael dead)

Would have been a good way to get Micheal out of the show. Her kids helping continue the Starfleet she helped re-build.

Alas, I fear that Martin-Green's contract is the same as before, which puts her character front-and-center in all things Discovery. I had hoped that this wouldn't be the case anymore, but it appears to be. Especially given the way they wrote the ending of an episode that had been mostly Micheal-free.

Evade

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

They were going to have to run into her at some stage. Better now than have two completely different stories.

I don't mind that they met up at the end of the episode it's that theyhad to be rescued by Burnham ex Machina. The episode was going so well up until then.

~Rebel~

I have this horrible dread about The Burn... this feeling they're going to do something really really stupid with it. Like, they'll have it be that Michael's time-suit flying back through the closing wormhole is what caused the spontaneous dilithium explosions at some point in the past. That it would initially have been called "The Burnham Effect". Which over time, became "The Burn".

alchemist33

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I have this horrible dread about The Burn... this feeling they're going to do something really really stupid with it. Like, they'll have it be that Michael's time-suit flying back through the closing wormhole is what caused the spontaneous dilithium explosions at some point in the past. That it would initially have been called "The Burnham Effect". Which over time, became "The Burn".

Uh oh. Thats far too plausible

EltonJohn69

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I have this horrible dread about The Burn... this feeling they're going to do something really really stupid with it. Like, they'll have it be that Michael's time-suit flying back through the closing wormhole is what caused the spontaneous dilithium explosions at some point in the past. That it would initially have been called "The Burnham Effect". Which over time, became "The Burn".

Oh god !!! I think you might be right

Padre_Pio

alchemist33 wrote: »

Uh oh. Thats far too plausible

Well that makes complete sense.

Rawr

~Rebel~ wrote: »

That it would initially have been called "The Burnham Effect". Which over time, became "The Burn".

Oh god damnit, that's so right I wish I didn't read it now :O



They'd do it, it's so damned stupid that they'd do it.

CramCycle

Why could it just not be the guy they gave a functioning star ship too. He could then help them find Michael in the next episode. It just didn't make sense. A year and she has her own ship and undoubtedly done a load of other great stuff. Cue flashback episode later in the season.

ted1

How many star fleet recruits did Michael get in a year?
Wil they take the ten warp capable ships from this weeks episode to build up starfleet? Will Georgiou take them up start her empire?

AMKC

Sorry about the wrong thread title. I jumped before I looked. Only just watched it now. I really should have looked it up before doing that but just assumed part two would have the same title.
I have to say I loved that episode. So much better than the first episode which was all about the mighty Micheal. I can honestly say I did not miss her in this episode and it was better without her. Yes the Big Burn and dilithium thing is a bit crap and even stupid and they could have came up with a better reason why the Galaxy is in a mess but still. Great episode. I smiled, I laughed and I even got sad a bit.
Anyone any idea what is up with Datmer?
Also did anyone else think the bad guy sounded like Liam Neeson or even looked like him?
I thought the ending to this episode was brilliant too. Am looking forward to next weeks episode now hopefully it's not all Micheal.

AllForIt

Quite surprised by E2, as E1 was a total yawn. E2 shudda been the opening episode.

AllForIt

AMKC wrote: »

Anyone any idea what is up with Datmer? .

I think she'd just forgotten her lines.

AMKC wrote: »

Also did anyone else think the bad guy sounded like Liam Neeson or even looked like him?
.

Not me. I thought he looked like Andy Garcia. In fact I though he was him for a split second.

Evade

I'd say the crash damaged Detmer's prosthetic in some way and it'll end up being replaced by something that's indistinguishable from her regular eye.

corkie

corkie wrote: »

Jake Weber ~ Zareh is only billed for one episode, so we won't be seeing him again?

Been a fan of 'Medium' & 'Homeland' I recognized him straight away.

AMKC wrote: »

Also did anyone else think the bad guy sounded like Liam Neeson or even looked like him?

AllForIt wrote: »

I think she'd just forgotten her lines.



Not me. I thought he looked like Andy Garcia. In fact I though he was him for a split second.

Some sites where comparing him to 'Negan' ~ Jeffrey Dean Morgan

"The biggest problem in their lives is a character straight from The Walking Dead. Zareh is like a futuristic cross between Negan and an Old West gunslinger, the clinking spurs on his boots an unsubtle nod to the character’s inspirations."

+

"Didn’t Star Trek: Discovery‘s Zareh, the cruel new villain played by Homeland vet Jake Weber, remind you a little too much of The Walking Dead‘s Negan?"

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I have this horrible dread about The Burn... this feeling they're going to do something really really stupid with it. Like, they'll have it be that Michael's time-suit flying back through the closing wormhole is what caused the spontaneous dilithium explosions at some point in the past. That it would initially have been called "The Burnham Effect". Which over time, became "The Burn".

The only problem is 'Burnham' is marked classified since the events of the previous season. So how would anyone know to connect the suit to her if it was the cause. She may have had a problem getting known in the year she has been there.

Edit: - We also known that the suit made it back to leave the 7th Signal in the end of season 2.