Hand sanitizer supplied at shops....but is it?

peterofthebr

Yeap clean hands before and after putting on nitrate gloves, most places I go has sanatizer that has a serious smell of alcohol of it.. and yes blitz trolly hand rails, (using the app... can't seem to reply to individual comments).
Notice some places (whatever they use) gives my gloves a serious soapy lathering (just like washing up liquid) when scrubbing hands (with gloves on) , if I touch mask while on.. I blitz again... Back at car I have a bleach water mix spray...to keep car steering wheel etc covid free.. Think the bleach/water is the best of all, it's most efficient 24hrs after mix I. Using 1 bleach 4 parts water.in a spray bottle.

Yyhhuuu

peterofthebr wrote: »

Yeap clean hands before and after putting on nitrate gloves, most places I go has sanatizer that has a serious smell of alcohol of it.. and yes blitz trolly hand rails, (using the app... can't seem to reply to individual comments).
Notice some places (whatever they use) gives my gloves a serious soapy lathering (just like washing up liquid) when scrubbing hands (with gloves on) , if I touch mask while on.. I blitz again... Back at car I have a bleach water mix spray...to keep car steering wheel etc covid free.. Think the bleach/water is the best of all, it's most efficient 24hrs after mix I. Using 1 bleach 4 parts water.in a spray bottle.

GLOVES are of no use unless changed VERY frequently. Covid19 is NOT transmitted through skin. Why wear gloves. They are also damaging to the environment.

I AGREE in the interests of transparency the contents of hand sanatizer should be displayed by law, most important the % ETHANOL therein.

70% ETHANOL is most effectivr VIRUCIDE.

SweetCaliber

Some supermarkets are using Ecolab's Manodes GP:

https://en-uk.ecolab.com/offerings/manodes-gp

Yyhhuuu

SweetCaliber wrote: »

Some supermarkets are using Ecolab's Manodes GP:

https://en-uk.ecolab.com/offerings/manodes-gp

Ecolab is a reputable company used in clinical settings

SweetCaliber

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

Ecolab is a reputable company used in clinical settings

Exactly. Seen it used in Tesco's hand sanitizing stations.

august12

Deagol wrote: »

Do people think at all before they write rubbish like this? You're going to clean your hands AFTER you've touched the thing that 'hundreds of people have touched before' you!!!! :mad::mad::mad:

Yes, but what are you cleaning your hands with, sanitizer or some watered down soap liquid, I generally bring my own.

the purple tin

The good thick stuff makes your hands feel really cold. The alcohol maybe?
A lot of the ones in shops now don't do that anymore, they have watery stuff too.

Yyhhuuu

august12 wrote: »

Yes, but what are you cleaning your hands with, sanitizer or some watered down soap liquid, I generally bring my own.

Also use the correct clinical handwashing technique as demonstrated on you tube video by NUI Galway's Prof. Martin Cormican.

Soap and water at home just as effective as 70% Ethanol (Alcohol)

ressem

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Well if an ordinary Joe like me can figure that out, how did the procurement processes not figure out that it was methylated spirits not alcohol.

I see many claims down the line and lawyers rubbing their properly sanitised hands together.

Because you needed to have the product, and test it to discover the problem. Listed ingredients are the same as the correctly formulated sanitiser.

Material Safety Data Sheet and label for the sanitizer only mentioned Denatured Alcohol (i.e. an additive to make it undrinkable and not subject to drinkable alcohol taxes)
& Ethanol.

https://publicapps.agriculture.gov.ie/prs/product/bio/32104/specification/document/31836

"
INCI NAME CAS No Content %
ALCOHOL DENAT 64-17-5 70%
DIONIZE WATER 29,8%
GLYCERIN 56-81-5 0,1%
CARBOMER 9003-01-4 0,05%
TRIETHANOLAMINE 102-71-6 0,05%
..
Name STD TWA- Hrs STEL-15 Min Notes
ETHANOL 1000 ppm 1920 mg/m3
..
ISSUED BY
UMIT KALFA /TIS SANAYI VE DIS TICARET
Certificated from the Turkish Standards Institute (TSE) to prepare Safety Data Sheets
"

and on the product label itself
"
Ingredients: ALCOHOL 70%, DIONIZE WATER 29.8%, GLYCERIN 0.1%,
CARBOMER 0.05%, TRIETHANOLAMINE 0.05%
"

64-17-5 is meant to be high % ethanol.
https://echa.europa.eu/substance-information/-/substanceinfo/100.000.526

Some manufacturers mention pharmethyl and the supplier on the MSDS.

Sleeper12

tvjunki wrote:

I do. Some store staff direct you to their sanitizer stand and look at you oddly if you use your own. I also noticed some stores do not have someone making sure customers are using the hand sanitizer or that you are cleaning your trolley or basket. There are a few chain stores have staff cleaning the baskets before you use them but not all.

Look at them oddly back

I always use my own

ILoveYourVibes

Heebie wrote: »

Bleach should sanitize your hands extremely well... it's really harsh on the skin, though! =o

Real bleach would burn your skin.

You cannot really sterilize your skin ...not on an everyday basis ...the chemicals would give your mild burns

Sanitizer is not going to sterilize your skin ....its why doctors wear gloves even after scrubbing up and they use rubbing alcohol!

washing is different to sterilization.

Washing ..disinfecting and sterilization are all different levels of killing all harmful micro organisms. Disinfecting merely reduces them. Washing just removes physically removes infectious agents and the organic matter on which they thrive, but does not necessarily destroy them. It doesn't remove them all though ..rarely. Sterilizing something destroys them all. But it destroys them ON the thing you are sterilizing.

You wash something before you can sterilize it. I.EYou have to wash a baby bottle well before sterilizing it.

Cleaning physically removes infectious agents and the organic matter on which they thrive, but does not necessarily destroy them. Disinfection is a process of inactivating pathogenic organisms except for bacterial spores. Sterilization is the elimination of all viable microorganisms.

But its questionable whether cleaning physically removes ALL infectious agents partic in something porous like skin. But you can't really sterilize your skin daily. So its the best you can do.


I remember there was this facial massage tool that had to be recalled it was made of jade or something and they realized bacteria could penetrate the pores of the stone from your face and people were getting staph and stuff. So they said you have to sterilize it or not use it. So if bacteria can penetrate stone ...bacteria etc is in your pores and skin folds within the ridges of your finger prints ...in your nails ..(YOUR NAILS ARE POROUS !) cuticles ..

I feel ill just thinking about it!

So obv if cleaning is removing ..it needs to be rinsed OFF ...whereas with SANITIZER ....its not rinsed down a drain ...it HAS to kill everything ..but it doesn't.

jrosen

I dont use them. Only once has someone at a store got a little snotty because I refused. I have eczema and find the cheap crap the stores are using really irritates my skin.

I bring my own

ILoveYourVibes

i just wonder at all the other hands that have pressed the button for the non automatic ones!

If its automatic or i can press with my elbow i use it ..otherwise i use my own.

Del2005

ozmo wrote: »

There is a burn test apparently -
Burns Yellow = Bad, Blue = The Safer Ethanol

I'm going try with our hand-cleaners here, very very small drops of course - and report back...


sciency link - read for safety info etc.
Quote:
"Crude Testing
If you suspect that an alcoholic beverage may contain a dangerous amount of methanol, there are a number of quick and crude tests you can perform. The easiest is to smell the beverage: If it has a strong, unpleasant chemical odor, the beverage may not be safe to consume. However, because not all methanol-tainted beverages produce this smell, it is also possible to test with flame. If a sample of the beverage is lit on fire, and the fire burns yellow rather than blue, the drink is not safe to consume."

Not very practical when going into a shop to see if the sanitizer is good alcohol or bad, or even to see if there is enough alcohol.

On the watery sanitizer some places use. I got a bottle in Lidl that is like water, had a paper cut and there's definitely alcohol in it.

ILoveYourVibes

Thing is ....the best you can do is the best you can do

Hospitals are known to be filthy for germs. I mean i spoke to a phlebotomist a while ago who said sometimes she can't wear gloves because she has to feel the vein and she can't with gloves sometimes.

Long sleeves ..that is another danger ..i wash my wrists etc ..my mother sprays her clothes but i am sure it is useless to spray clothes ...long sleeves i would say would be dirty.

But the best you can do is the best you can do.

My OCD is going insane.

Akrasia

dhaughton99 wrote: »

Even before Covid, our GP had liquid soap in the dispenser at the entrance.

Liquid soap will kill the virus, the problem is that it leaves residues so it can make thinks sticky and dirty if not properly rinsed and dried. I’d prefer a shop to use a bottle of water with 5% fairy liquid in it than nothing at all

Soap kills viruses on contact

The benefit of alcohol based hand sanitizer is that it rapidly dries without leaving much residue, which is nice but not an essential property when the goal is to prevent contamination (in a non clinical setting)

Akrasia

Del2005 wrote: »

Not very practical when going into a shop to see if the sanitizer is good alcohol or bad, or even to see if there is enough alcohol.

On the watery sanitizer some places use. I got a bottle in Lidl that is like water, had a paper cut and there's definitely alcohol in it.

If you’re worried just take an empty spray bottle (something mild like window cleaner) and Fill it with water with a decent squirt of washing up liquid

Keep it in your car, use it before you go shopping and after you return to the car. You can spray the handles and doors of the car etc, won’t hurt anything except pathogens

ILoveYourVibes

Akrasia wrote: »

Liquid soap will kill the virus, the problem is that it leaves residues so it can make thinks sticky and dirty if not properly rinsed and dried. I’d prefer a shop to use a bottle of water with 5% fairy liquid in it than nothing at all

Soap kills viruses on contact

The benefit of alcohol based hand sanitizer is that it rapidly dries without leaving much residue, which is nice but not an essential property when the goal is to prevent contamination (in a non clinical setting)

Small correction. IF it IS just soap (which i doubt) it wouldn't kill most germs. The idea is soap removes them when you rinse.

Anything that stays ON the skin needs to kill everything.

But in reality you need to wash your hands first i use hand cream as i am sure many do now ..you need to wash that off or any natural oils dirts ...for rubbing alcohol or sanitize to work best.

Akrasia

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Small correction. IF it IS just soap (which i doubt) it wouldn't kill most germs. The idea is soap removes them when you rinse.

Anything that stays ON the skin needs to kill everything.

But in reality you need to wash your hands first i use hand cream as i am sure many do now ..you need to wash that off or any natural oils dirts ...for rubbing alcohol or sanitize to work best.

The soap itself will dissolve the lipids on the viral shell and kill the virus on contact


It won’t kill tougher microbes that have spores or whatever, but it will kill Covid and most common pathogens

B.A._Baracus

I've noticed some shops have a real weak smell off them. Like they've been watered down so much. Gonna stop using them from now on. Just not worth it.

Too many variables:
- These things are being touched by hundreds of people each day.
- I don't know how effective they are (ie, could be watered down to the point it's basically just water)
- So logically thinking, I can be touching something that has covid 19 on it and I am unsure of the strength of the sanitizer that I am getting in return.


Bringing my own from now on.

Sir montygom

Deagol wrote: »

So if we are not "properly cleaning them" why are we using it at all? Have you any source for this assertion you've made? I have to say to me at least it sounds like tin hat stuff.

If - and it's a big if, the shops are NOT using hand sanitizer I'd agree with you to some degree but every shop I've gone into has proper hand sanitizer at the door from what I can see. I've taken the time to look at a few of them out of curiosty and most are high alcohol % sanitizers that do I would guess at least as good a job as most people will do given soap and water.

After a good squirt to give the hands a good clean do you pick up the big blue roll of hand towel with one hand ..tear off a few sheets with the other hand and dry your hands? No virus on the roll of towel?

ILoveYourVibes

Akrasia wrote: »

The soap itself will dissolve the lipids on the viral shell and kill the virus on contact


It won’t kill tougher microbes that have spores or whatever, but it will kill Covid and most common pathogens

Yes but there are many soaps and sanitizers that don't do that.

In fact the FDA made a list of sanitizers and soaps that won't do that.

ILoveYourVibes

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I've noticed some shops have a real weak smell off them. Like they've been watered down so much. Gonna stop using them from now on. Just not worth it.

Too many variables:
- These things are being touched by hundreds of people each day.
- I don't know how effective they are (ie, could be watered down to the point it's basically just water)
- So logically thinking, I can be touching something that has covid 19 on it and I am unsure of the strength of the sanitizer that I am getting in return.


Bringing my own from now on.

Use your own if you want ..so long as you sanitize.

Sconsey

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Small correction. IF it IS just soap (which i doubt) it wouldn't kill most germs. The idea is soap removes them when you rinse.

Anything that stays ON the skin needs to kill everything.

But in reality you need to wash your hands first i use hand cream as i am sure many do now ..you need to wash that off or any natural oils dirts ...for rubbing alcohol or sanitize to work best.

Yeah as another poster has pointed out. It is not about using soap to wash away the virus (though that may certainly help), it is about using soap to kill the virus. Cov-2 is surrounded by an oily lipid layer like a skin. Contact with soap will break down the oily layer and the virus falls apart.

jam_mac_jam

I think the widespread use creates a false sense of security. People think that they are completely killing everthing on your hands when they may not be.

You may be not spreading it all over your hands
It may not be strong enough alcohol in it.

The emphasis on washing hands and not touching items that you are buying also needs to be stressed. And to avoid touching your face as much as possible.

Happydays2020

This is excellent

https://www.kilkennyshop.com/handmade-soap-company-hand-sanitiser

rainbowtrout

Del2005 wrote: »

Not very practical when going into a shop to see if the sanitizer is good alcohol or bad, or even to see if there is enough alcohol.

On the watery sanitizer some places use. I got a bottle in Lidl that is like water, had a paper cut and there's definitely alcohol in it.

The watery consistency has nothing to do with the alcohol, it's to do with the amount of glycerin in it (and whatever other ingredients are used). Too much glycerin leaves it a bit sticky on your hands, but it also gives it that gel like consistency.


You could just as easily have a solution of 70% alcohol and 30% water and it will do the same job, but will be watery.

Johnny1999

It’s not a difficult virus to kill. Washing up liquid will kill it. But .....

YOU CAN’T SANITISE DIRT!

jam_mac_jam

Johnny1999 wrote: »

It’s not a difficult virus to kill. Washing up liquid will kill it. But .....

YOU CAN’T SANITISE DIRT!

Soap and water break the lipids in the virus and kill it. Soap and washing your hands is more effective then sanitizer. Especially when most people don't cover every part of their hands in sanitizer.

And yes to properly sanitize something, it needs to be clean. Hand sanitizer is effective but not the magic some people think.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/12/science-soap-kills-coronavirus-alcohol-based-disinfectants

Wash your hands and don't touch your face.

Irish Stones

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Real bleach would burn your skin.

This is what happens when you use it the first time, your skin gets rough and irritated, but after a few days using bleach on your hands you actually get a very soft and smooth skin.

I tried that, and I can assure you that I never had softer hands before.