Shooting incident in Kanturk, Co. Cork (Mod note in op)

Spanish Eyes

GoneHome wrote: »

That makes things even more difficult in that the only possible value is in the land, see how it comes full circle, no money, land worth money, sell land, don't sell land, keep it in the family name, it's a vicious circle

It is not difficult to see how some can be miffed. But for this tragedy to be the result? Nah it is awful. With due respect to everyone involved.

It is something that probably needs a lot of discussion. Do the IFA have a view?

Sorry, this post is coming from a Townie in Dublin, but OH is from NW and has seen similar happening, but not to the tragic extent of today in Kanturk. Still....

mean gene

The most horrific sickening story of the year in Ireland RIP all

Spanish Eyes

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well in my own case my brother got the farm because he was the one who wanted to do it, I had no interest in farming so I was given a cash settlement.

Problems arise when siblings who have no interest in the farm still think they are entitled to as much as the one who stays home to run the place.

There has to be a bit of give and take.

But again, what if there are only debts, and no cash for anyone else?

votecounts

Rip, sad situation for the mother who will remember this horrific day until she dies:(

Galwayguy35

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

But again, what if there are only debts, and no cash for anyone else?

Then land ends up being sold and family rows happen.

Spanish Eyes

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Then land ends up being sold and family rows happen.

I think the rows happen beforehand, as we have seen. Sadly.

KiKi III

There are other factors to be considered as well, like who looked after the parents in their final years.

My grandparents’ had eight children. Their farm went to one son who farmed it all his life and by all accounts had earned it. The house went to another son who had spent many years in London and contributed little.

My mother, who spent three nights a week with my grandmother for five years as her health deteriorated got F all.

tayto lover

mean gene wrote: »

The most horrific sickening story of the year in Ireland RIP all

Last week’s was terrible too.
Man being woke up and told his wife was dead and then they find the child dead too.
Awful tragedy.

GoneHome

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think the rows happen beforehand, as we have seen. Sadly.

Yes that is why today's events are very unusual, rows over land/inheritance would usually be more so associated with an older cohort, for it to happen between two guys aged 22 and 25 is very unusual in this day and age.

Markcheese

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Then land ends up being sold and family rows happen.

That's great if one family member is running the family farm , and has worked it as his career , and is now told sell up and hand over to someone who has a career

Mad_maxx

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

What if there is no cash?

usually the one who put in the most time and effort while growing up will inherit the farm , sons of farmers often have to make big sacrafices , back in the day , they were forced to work from a young age and while they inherited land , they had a lesser education etc so the ones who " got to school " were funded by the farm while growing up and that was their inheritence

old attitudes die hard

jackboy

GoneHome wrote: »

Yes that is why today's events are very unusual, rows over land/inheritance would usually be more so associated with an older cohort, for it to happen between two guys aged 22 and 25 is very unusual in this day and age.

It’s not unusual, it is still very common in rural areas.

Chalk McHugh

tayto lover wrote: »

Last week’s was terrible too.
Man being woke up and told his wife was dead and then they find the child dead too.
Awful tragedy.

The first tragedy to hit us was the woman in Newcastle, Dublin who murdered her three children back in January. She was a nurse in Crumlin Childrens Hospital.

Last week only a few miles from there a young nurse working in Crumlin hospital and living in Lucan threw herself off the M50 toll bridge in the early hours after her young child died.

And now this horrorific story from Cork. It's hard to comprehend what sends people over the edge. But i've nothing but sympathy for all concerned. Mental health is a complex issue. Will anybody ever fully understand?

Mad_maxx

Sorolla wrote: »

One thing I have noticed is that the siblings normally accept the wishes of the parents.

Say the oldest son has worked all his life on the farm and the youngest son went to college and got a good job.

The problem arises if the young son is married to a money grappling rap and she wants her share of the land

This is what causes the animosity

thats why pre nups are especially important for farmers ,a farm should not have to be divided up just because a woman married a farmer and the marriage ends

same if the farmer is a woman BTW , its not a gender thing , while a small minority in ireland , women can of course be farmers

BorneTobyWilde

I guess the wife will now inherit the whole farm. All this talk about Will's is speculation though, he was a young man, not a 98 year old. Why would a Will be talked about at 5am in the morning.

dhaughton99

tayto lover wrote: »

Last week’s was terrible too.
Man being woke up and told his wife was dead and then they find the child dead too.
Awful tragedy.

She was a nurse in the Crumlin children’s hospital. Same with the mother who killed her 3 kids in Newcastle a few months ago.

Mad_maxx

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

The first tragedy to hit us was the woman in Newcastle, Dublin who murdered her three children back in January. She was a nurse in Crumlin Childrens Hospital.

Last week only a few miles from there a young nurse working in Crumlin hospital and living in Lucan threw herself off the M50 toll bridge in the early hours after her young child died.

And now this horrorific story from Cork. It's hard to comprehend what sends people over the edge. But i've nothing but sympathy for all concerned. Mental health is a complex issue. Will anybody ever fully understand?

its terrifying how fragile the mind could be and what could happen as a result

thankfully its rare these kind of tragedies

sameoldname

Mad_maxx wrote: »

thats why pre nups are especially important for farmers ,a farm should not have to be divided up just because a woman married a farmer and the marriage ends

While a judge might take it into account when presiding over divorce proceedings, prenups are not legally binding in this country.

GoneHome

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

The first tragedy to hit us was the woman in Newcastle, Dublin who murdered her three children back in January. She was a nurse in Crumlin Childrens Hospital.

Last week only a few miles from there a young nurse working in Crumlin hospital and living in Lucan threw herself off the M50 toll bridge in the early hours after her young child died.

And now this horrorific story from Cork. It's hard to comprehend what sends people over the edge. But i've nothing but sympathy for all concerned. Mental health is a complex issue. Will anybody ever fully understand?

I don't want to get into the whole mental health argument here but christ almighty for a woman to kill her three kids is beyond evil regardless of what state she was in, why did she not just kill herself and leave her kids to get on and live thire life with their father, sorry but I'm not buying the mental health agrument on that. Anyway, not derailing this thread by getting into that so will leave it at that.

Mad_maxx

sameoldname wrote: »

While a judge might take it into account when presiding over divorce proceedings, prenups are not legally binding in this country.

i did know that , they should be though

JP Liz V1

GoneHome wrote: »

I live in a rural area here in Co Limerick and know of at least two local families who are not speaking due to land/inheritance issues, it's still riff in rural Ireland but have to say I was shocked hearing of today's events in Co Cork especially as involved two brothers in their 20s, I would associate such striff more so with an older cohort of people.

Yes I would associate also with other kids, these were both college students according to VM1 news

The Mighty Quinn

Mad_maxx wrote: »

its terrifying how fragile the mind could be and what could happen as a result

thankfully its rare these kind of tragedies

Based on what we know so far, I would not use mental health issues as a reason for what happened today. Would appear to be more hot blooded then that.

Spanish Eyes

The farm issue in rural areas can be problematic, but many walk away and let them at it. My OH is one of them. And knows that the land will be left to to eldest who works on it. Fine. No problems there at all.

Door is closed now. The decision has been made.

Galwayguy35

Markcheese wrote: »

That's great if one family member is running the family farm , and has worked it as his career , and is now told sell up and hand over to someone who has a career

I agree its very unfair, but its their own siblings who are greedy for a bigger share than they are entitled to that cause the problems.

Wills aren't just a problem in the country. I know of plenty of issues surrounding manipulation of elderly parents where wills were changed, some with clear signs of dementia.

As my oul fella always said, divide up the house even. But the oul fellas normally die first and the vulnerable old women get manipulated by the normally sneaky child.

Anyway, I know farms are different, some accept nothing, some only want a plot to build a house, some are willing to let the farm be divided up.

People have also seen the value of land if development starts so when you see it that way is it fair to leave it with one, hard to know.

JP Liz V1

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I guess the wife will now inherit the whole farm. All this talk about Will's is speculation though, he was a young man, not a 98 year old. Why would a Will be talked about at 5am in the morning.

Is there any more kids?

RTE News at 9 saying murder suicide, naming all 3 of them, trainee accountant and trainee solicitor

ChikiChiki

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I guess the wife will now inherit the whole farm. All this talk about Will's is speculation though, he was a young man, not a 98 year old. Why would a Will be talked about at 5am in the morning.

By all accounts the two sons were doing good degrees at UCC and UL aswell It was reported in the news earlier one was doing law and the other accountancy. Don't sound like two people who were set for a career on the farm.

The Mighty Quinn

Perhaps a bit off topic and perhaps plain ignorant, but some seem to have an entitled attitude of what they are owed.. What they can expect on death of their parents. I think it's a terrible attitude.

My parents house worth maybe at a push 300K. There are 3 of us. I'm not licking my lips at the prospects of 100K coming my way. If my folks decide to leave it to a grandchild and skip me and my siblings, I won't get upset about it.

They've given me a lot in life, they owe me nothing in death.

People should respect their parents decisions on wills. Yes it can be hard to stomach on occasion, but it was their property, money, etc to leave, not yours to claim.

E36Ross

Always found Tadgh a gentleman any time i had dealings with him..... Genuinely shocked when I seen his picture on the examiner.

RIP.

Spanish Eyes

Liquidate everything if in a town/city and divide the proceeds up. No one can demand anything then.

So glad I am not in a FIELD situation, but it is a rare event thank god, but probably bubbling under the surface in a lot of farming communities just the same. Sad day for everyone and that mother/wife too. God help her.