Shooting incident in Kanturk, Co. Cork (Mod note in op)

kerry cow

Once the guards are call to a domestic ,and there are guns on the premises then automatically they should be removed until proven fit for use .

ChikiChiki

kerry cow wrote: »

Once the guards are call to a domestic ,and there are guns on the premises then automatically they should be removed until proven fit for use .

Would there be a register in the Garda database highlighting that there are 3 guns in the house? Could be a learning here.

Squiggle

KiKi III wrote: »

I also fancy my chances better against a knife than a gun. Particularly if it’s one man with a knife versus two unarmed men. Why is it so hard for people who like guns to admit how wildly dangerous they are?

Why don’t we ban knives? Because they have a hundred other purposes. Guns don’t.

Is it not the case that thousands of farmers use guns safely every year to control wood pigeons and/or foxes/dogs worrying animals ?

Should recreational clay pigeon shooting be banned?

Anastasia_

How heartbreaking and absolutely needless. What good is the farm to any of them now?

TG4 did a brilliant docuseries on the importance on land in the Irish psyche a few years ago and looked at numerous cases like this. It's called Crá sa Chré and its available on the player. Well worth a watch.

Balagan1

Trouser Snake wrote: »

What would you have suggested they do before this tragedy happened? There's no one to blame here except he who pulled the trigger, three times at least.

Need to wait for postmortems and ballistic/forensic results before picture is clear. Although a dark scenario from the beginning, it seems, from at least one newspaper's reports, Irish Times, that it is emerging as bleaker still. RIP

Nekarsulm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Would there be a register in the Garda database highlighting that there are 3 guns in the house? Could be a learning here.

Of course there is.
Local Sergeant in the nearest station would know, as he is responsible for ensuring that each guns licence is renewed every 36 months.
With 3 guns in the household, he would also have been responsible for ensuring that they were kept in a gun safe, and that the safe was securely bolted into the fabric of the house.

Edit, to add. There are about 180,000 shotguns licenced to owners in Rep. of Ireland, plus about 54,000 rifles.
Gardai would know exactly who owns what.

LillySV

tayto lover wrote: »

Last week’s was terrible too.
Man being woke up and told his wife was dead and then they find the child dead too.
Awful tragedy.

Felt a lot more for this man to be honest... poor man did nothing wrong and woke up to find his newborn dead and his wife killing her self while he slept ... shocking . I assume that the poor baby had been smothered by the woman with post natal depression

HildaOgdenx

Anastasia_ wrote: »

How heartbreaking and absolutely needless. What good is the farm to any of them now?

TG4 did a brilliant docuseries on the importance on land in the Irish psyche a few years ago and looked at numerous cases like this. It's called Crá sa Chré and its available on the player. Well worth a watch.

Exactly.

Terrible tragedy.

the hedgeman

Anastasia_ wrote: »

How heartbreaking and absolutely needless. What good is the farm to any of them now?

TG4 did a brilliant docuseries on the importance on land in the Irish psyche a few years ago and looked at numerous cases like this. It's called Crá sa Chré and its available on the player. Well worth a watch.

The tensions in that household must've been explosive leading up to that tragic outcome, I don't know can these kind of events ever be prevented

Nobotty

New to this thread but how do you know there were 2 guns in the house?
In murder suicides there's one gun
The father could have shot one son,then ran up the field after the other shooting him before turning the gun on himself

Snails pace

It's a very sad situation and the poor mother must be heart broken. Thankfully this doesn't happen very often. Coming from a farming background I have seen families destroyed over land and have never spoken until the day they die. Families could reject a will and even with a proper farm succession plan some family members can feel hard done by.

MrMusician18

the hedgeman wrote: »

The tensions in that household must've been explosive leading up to that tragic outcome, I don't know can these kind of events ever be prevented

I wonder what kind of relationship the brothers had. Was it one of long standing rivalry or one that recently broke down over the will.

The bitterest family feuds I've known were where the siblings were rivals and one felt aggrieved over perceived long standing parental favouritism.

JeffKenna

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I wonder what kind of relationship the brothers had. Was it one of long standing rivalry or one that recently broke down over the will.

The bitterest family feuds I've known were where the siblings were rivals and one felt aggrieved over perceived long standing parental favouritism.

Hard to know. Looking at reports the land was leased for the last 30 years so neither son was farming it. Based on that alone it should probably have been halved off. One son getting it all looks from the outside as favouritism but naturally no one knows the facts 100%.

Oscar Madison

John B. Keane knew what he was writing about in 'The Field'

Two sons died in that also be it through different circumstances.

Blanco100

Irish times article is absolutely frightening. Did not think that was how it would have played out, poor lad in the house.

the hedgeman

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I wonder what kind of relationship the brothers had. Was it one of long standing rivalry or one that recently broke down over the will.

The bitterest family feuds I've known were where the siblings were rivals and one felt aggrieved over perceived long standing parental favouritism.

If they were more siblings,they'd be more shared disagreement or agreement which maybe would be easier to plan

ChikiChiki

Blanco100 wrote: »

Irish times article is absolutely frightening. Did not think that was how it would have played out, poor lad in the house.

That's the most detailed article yet. Reads of a big split in the family.

The Mighty Quinn

Link?

Seems to be 5 or 6 articles on it

expectationlost

The Claire Byrne show decides that the most notable thing about the shooting in Kanturk yesterday was that people were tweeting about it, not that it took them ~6 hours to go in

MrMusician18

JeffKenna wrote: »

Hard to know. Looking at reports the land was leased for the last 30 years so neither son was farming it. Based on that aline it should probably have been halved off. One son getting it all looks from the outside as favouritism but naturally no one knows the facts 100%.

Just looking at the numbers, the rental in come from such a large farm of what is said to be good quality tillage land would equate to a solid salary for a working professional.

Is it any wonder that inheritance can be so contentious.

lexi-lexi

According to that Irish times article it's the father and older son that shot the younger one and then fled outside ?! Bit different from the initial reports that it was one son that shot the others

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/son-23-who-died-in-suspected-cork-murder-suicide-was-due-to-graduate-1.4392196?mode=amp

Deeec

lexi-lexi wrote: »

According to that Irish times article it's the father and older son that shot the younger one and then fled outside ?! Bit different from the initial reports that it was one son that shot the others

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/son-23-who-died-in-suspected-cork-murder-suicide-was-due-to-graduate-1.4392196?mode=amp

Yes. It sounds like there was a family divide - mother siding with eldest son and father siding with younger son. I also read in another article that it was the mother that actually owned the land. Very very sad case.

LillySV

lexi-lexi wrote: »

According to that Irish times article it's the father and older son that shot the younger one and then fled outside ?! Bit different from the initial reports that it was one son that shot the others

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/son-23-who-died-in-suspected-cork-murder-suicide-was-due-to-graduate-1.4392196?mode=amp

Read it again... the younger son was aggrieved by fact he was getting nothing and either just him or both him and father shot the older son. According to a different article in the sun, Diarmuid had been working on the farm... if that’s true then that would definitely have helped stroke tension... he working on a farm then having all of it given to other brother.

JeffKenna

LillySV wrote: »

Read it again... the younger son was aggrieved by fact he was getting nothing and either just him or both him and father shot the older son. According to a different article in the sun, Diarmuid had been working on the farm... if that’s true then that would definitely have helped stroke tension... he working on a farm then having all of it given to other brother.

I thought the farm was rented out with the last 30 years so he couldn't have been working on it? Not sure which article I read that in now though.

suicide_circus

Blanco100 wrote: »

Irish times article is absolutely frightening. Did not think that was how it would have played out, poor lad in the house.

Jesus yeah that took an unexpected turn, the younger son and the father in it together against the older son?

Topgear on Dave

Id be fairly wary of believing the newspaper reports until there is more investigation done.

It wouldn't be the first time journalists will jump to writing a juicy story even if they haven't all the details.

(Not saying they wrong either)

LillySV

JeffKenna wrote: »

I thought the farm was rented out with the last 30 years so he couldn't have been working on it? Not sure which article I read that in now though.

I didn’t see anything about the lease on media but seen it mentioned it here once or twice ... don’t know ... the Irish times seems to lead the reader to the belief that both father and younger son were aggrieved by will and both were together... the sun newspaper leads the reader to believe it was just the younger son who shot the older son and the father was then shot when he chased after the younger son. Either way, a shocking tragedy... rip lads

paddy no 11

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Id be fairly wary of believing the newspaper reports until there is more investigation done.

It wouldn't be the first time journalists will jump to writing a juicy story even if they haven't all the details.

(Not saying they wrong either)

Unfortunately it seems to make sense as not sure how else they ended up in the field together (sense being a relative thing in this terrible tragedy)

Spculation does nothing but struggling to uderstand all this

Topgear on Dave

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Id be fairly wary of believing the newspaper reports until there is more investigation done.

It wouldn't be the first time journalists will jump to writing a juicy story even if they haven't all the details.

(Not saying they wrong either)

There is only one person who truly knows what went on. Aside from the press release from the Gardai, almost everything else thats being printed is supposition, rumour, gossip or full on fiction.

A paper never refused ink as the saying goes.

Even on this thread there has been wild speculation.

Be right back

That poor woman. Apparently very ill and witnessing and hearing that. Terrible loss.