2020-21 Emirates FA Cup - mod note in op 24.01.21

yourdeadwright

So now you cant control a game you dont win, ok suuuure

Shanotheslayer

yourdeadwright wrote: »

So now you cant control a game you dont win, ok suuuure

I didn't see enough of the game to say if Thiago bossed midfield or not. But what I will say is that means fack all if they lose.

Always remember Barcelona absolutely dominating Celtic in CL

https://www.sportbible.com/football/news-celtic-2-1-barcelona-an-unforgettable-night-in-cl-history-20181107

Look at those stats. That's bossing the game and losing. And at the end I'm sure they'd give up all those stats just have an extra goal.

Fitz*

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

DCL 1-0

How dare you talk about an ongoing FA cup game!

yourdeadwright

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I didn't see enough of the game to say if Thiago bossed midfield or not. But what I will say is that means fack all if they lose.

Always remember Barcelona absolutely dominating Celtic in CL

https://www.sportbible.com/football/news-celtic-2-1-barcelona-an-unforgettable-night-in-cl-history-20181107

Look at those stats. That's bossing the game and losing. And at the end I'm sure they'd give up all those stats just have an extra goal.

Of course it doesnt matter i never clamied it did

Someone said what does Thaigo do, i said he controls/bossessemidfeild, Just cause they drew and lost doesnt mean he disnt control that area of the pitch,

In MY opinion

StringerBell

yourdeadwright wrote: »

So now you cant control a game you dont win, ok suuuure

I'm not sure if anyone claimed you can't control a game while not winning, but if I did can you show me?

Dave0301

yourdeadwright wrote: »

So now you cant control a game you dont win, ok suuuure

Of course you can, but that didn't happen tonight.

yabadabado

yourdeadwright wrote: »

So now you cant control a game you dont win, ok suuuure

No one said that,why pretend they did?

You have an opinion on it but no need to get ratty when others don't agree with your opinion.

This is it

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Of course it doesnt matter i never clamied it did

Someone said what does Thaigo do, i said he controls/bossessemidfeild, Just cause they drew and lost doesnt mean he disnt control that area of the pitch,

In MY opinion

Watching tonight he certainly didn't boss the midfield. I don't think anyone bossed anywhere to be honest. United the better team but not a whole lot in it.

When is VVD due back?

yourdeadwright

yabadabado wrote: »

No one said that,why pretend they did?

You have an opinion on it but no need to get ratty when others don't agree with your opinion.

Im pretending am i really?
Brinty said "bossing a game means winning it"

yabadabado

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Im pretending am i really?
Brinty said "bossing a game means winning it"

My mistake ,one person said that out of numerous posters.

You were claiming as fact Thiago bossed midfield, which the majority of people would disagree with.

He played lots and lots of nothing passes ,mostly in positions that would trouble no team.

If thats him bossing midfield as I said earlier teams will be delighted to face him.

jayo26

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Of course it doesnt matter i never clamied it did

Someone said what does Thaigo do, i said he controls/bossessemidfeild, Just cause they drew and lost doesnt mean he disnt control that area of the pitch,

In MY opinion

In my opinion i think thiago is another Bastian Schweinsteiger type signing . He will look good at times but ultimately end up having no real impact.. I hope pool stick with him.

yabadabado

jayo26 wrote: »

In my opinion i think thiago is another Bastian Schweinsteiger type signing . He will look good at times but ultimately end up having no real impact.. I hope pool stick with him.

Could end up similar.

Cookiemunster

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Im pretending am i really?
Brinty said "bossing a game means winning it"

Bossing the game means making an impact on the game and its direction, even if you don't win. Thiago had loads of short passes under zero pressure that led to nothing. He most definitely didn't boss anything.

Girly Gal

Thiago didn't control midfield today, no one really did, United took their chances, Liverpool didn't, that was the difference, not a whole lot in it.

niallo27

What's the obsession with thiago, he just won the European Cup with Munich, it was no brainer, slightly odd obsession with utd fans with him.

Shanotheslayer

2-0 Richi.

Can't wait to win a double

Cookiemunster

niallo27 wrote: »

What's the obsession with thiago, he just won the European Cup with Munich, it was no brainer, slightly odd obsession with utd fans with him.

Well if Liverpool fan yourdeadwright stopped repeatedly claiming he did something that he didn't, then the conversation wouldn't have gone very far at all.

brinty

yourdeadwright wrote:

70-30 last week today in your own ground 60-40 Its quite clear Liverpool have dominated the ball in midfield, They have controlled that area in both games regardless of the scores that just a fact

brinty wrote:

It's an opinion, and bossing a game means winning.

Roy Keane bossed Juve in 99, United won. That's bossing a game in my opinion

yourdeadwright wrote:

Im pretending am i really? Brinty said "bossing a game means winning it"

You said it's a "fact" that he controlled and bossed midfield, I said it was an opinion.

I also said "in my opinion" bossing a game means winning, that's the bit you've omitted...

How many goals did Thiago score or assist today? How many key passes did he make? How many key tackles did he win?

brinty

Shanotheslayer wrote:

Can't wait to win a treble

I'm considering putting the mortgage on it. They wouldn't let me down would they....

This is it

niallo27 wrote: »

What's the obsession with thiago, he just won the European Cup with Munich, it was no brainer, slightly odd obsession with utd fans with him.

He hasn't turned up for Liverpool yet, in my opinion.

Shanotheslayer

brinty wrote: »

I'm considering putting the mortgage on it. They wouldn't let me down would they....

They've only let me down for 28 years but this is our year!

niallo27

This is it wrote: »

He hasn't turned up for Liverpool yet, in my opinion.

I thought he did OK today, held his own, created a few chances. He is a quality player, you can't deny that.

niallo27

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Well if Liverpool fan yourdeadwright stopped repeatedly claiming he did something that he didn't, then the conversation wouldn't have gone very far at all.

He was repeatly brought up after the nil nil and before and during the game today. Have a look back. He is a fantastic footballer and any team would want him.

brinty

niallo27 wrote:

He was repeatly brought up after the nil nil and before and during the game today. Have a look back. He is a fantastic footballer and any team would want him.

Niallo not saying he's not but I think Liverpool had other needs.

Milner, henderson, fabinho, keira, Ox, Gigi all there already. 30m on a guy when you needed defensive reinforcements and a back up keeper. Player like Ben Mee would've been ideal for today and given the injury history of Gomez and Mario. Kelleher has helped but Allison has missed games and you've a lack of experience behind him.

When you look at it like that Thiago was a luxury you could've passed on.

This is it

niallo27 wrote: »

I thought he did OK today, held his own, created a few chances. He is a quality player, you can't deny that.

Not denying he is a great player, just need him to show it at Liverpool

niallo27

brinty wrote: »

Niallo not saying he's not but I think Liverpool had other needs.

Milner, henderson, fabinho, keira, Ox, Gigi all there already. 30m on a guy when you needed defensive reinforcements and a back up keeper. Player like Ben Mee would've been ideal for today and given the injury history of Gomez and Mario. Kelleher has helped but Allison has missed games and you've a lack of experience behind him.

When you look at it like that Thiago was a luxury you could've passed on.

I don't agree, for the price they got him at, I think it was a no brainer. It shouldn't have been one or the other though, thiago should have been brought in alone with a centre half. Losing VVD is massive, he was ever present last 2 seasons, its hard to plan for that loss. It really is tough to be critical of a man who brought Liverpool from the abyss to wining a European cup and the league.

Backstreet Moyes

Two goals for liverpool today that is surely a positive

jacool

As a neutral (equally dislike the way both sets of fans behave) I thought that this game was everything that last weekend's game was not.
I think that this means that both sides were definitely treating this as a less important game in the grand scheme of things, a fact confirmed by the notable absentees in the starting 11s.
I think that it looked like honours even and just a poor decision by the referee denied us another 30 minutes and maybe penalties. I say poor because there were fouls like this all during the game on Salah, Mane, after he came on, and Rashford, that got no frees awarded. Consistency is all anyone wants from the ref.
I know people dislike statistics, but I think they have a huge relevance and in this game, both sides had 14 shots, with 6 on target. That struck me as how the game actually appeared. Liverpool looked very good in the middle third, and Manchester United looked dangerous every time they got into the final third.
For Liverpool the main positive is the fact that Salah got back among the goals, and a secondary one was that Firmino wasn't as wasteful as he has been for the last few months. I'd love to give my feelings on Thiago, but clearly that's a no-go area in this thread!
Defensively, Williams was all at sea once or twice and you'd fear for his confidence if he was always under the kind of pressure he was under today. he would learn from a player like Van Dijk, just not sure Fabinho would teach you as well.
For Manchester United the massive plusses are keeping on that unbeaten run, while putting one over on their biggest rivals. Also the Bruno hype machine keeps churning after the way he dispatched the free kick. They do get to welcome David Moyes back in the next round, a team also going on an unbeaten run of their own, now 7. Of course, next Sunday West ham will host Liverpool, so we'll get to see if the revival continues.
Lindelof was at fault for the first goal as all the other 3 were holding the same line but he played Salah in, so the defence is still one area where the final piece of the jigsaw hasn't yet clicked.
Manchester United are now installed as 6/1 second favourites for the cup, ahead of the two big London clubs, and behind their city rivals, who looked like they were missing Kevin De Bruyne last night nefore their late resurrection. That 6/1 might look big if they do indeed reduce the London quotient to two in 10 days time.

Footnote: I really don't get all the references to 31-year old Ben Mee. Jan Bednarek is only 25 and is playing for Southampton (he might know some of the Liverpool squad.) I'd throw Conor Coady into the conversation as well, despite Wolves recent run of form.

Cookiemunster

niallo27 wrote: »

He was repeatly brought up after the nil nil and before and during the game today. Have a look back. He is a fantastic footballer and any team would want him.

Except that nobody is arguing that he's not a fantastic footballer. The argument is whether he did or didn't boss the game today.

brinty

niallo27 wrote:

I don't agree, for the price they got him at, I think it was a no brainer. It shouldn't have been one or the other though, thiago should have been brought in alone with a centre half. Losing VVD is massive, he was ever present last 2 seasons, its hard to plan for that loss. It really is tough to be critical of a man who brought Liverpool from the abyss to wining a European cup and the league.

When you've 6 quality midfielders paying 30 million for a guy with a year left on his contact is a luxury in my opinion. Especially when you need centre backs, sub keeper, and a second front player.

When you pay a world record for vvd and Allison, leagues and european cups are a minimum expectation. But not buying the players to allow them rest or support is criminal.

It manifested today when they played fabinho at the back when they needed him in midfield. His foul cost Liverpool the game when having a guy like Ben Mee playing wouldn't have fouled Cavani backing in to him like that

Hotblack Desiato

RasTa wrote: »

What's the point of Thaigo in this Liverpool squad btw? Obviously a great player but what does he do?

Foul incessantly. Pep would love him

Hotblack Desiato

niallo27 wrote: »

Ah lads, it's a Mickley mouse cup, I know it a big deal for utd but for some bigger teams not so much. Congrats though, could this be a oles best chance of a cup.

LOL

"We never wanted it anyway" is always the hallmark of a sore loser.

Funny how it suddenly became the most important competition in the world when the British government and the FA conspired to force United to withdraw from it, hoping to boost England's chances of hosting a world cup... :rolleyes:

fyfe79

brinty wrote: »

When you've 6 quality midfielders paying 30 million for a guy with a year left on his contact is a luxury in my opinion. Especially when you need centre backs, sub keeper, and a second front player.

When you pay a world record for vvd and Allison, leagues and european cups are a minimum expectation. But not buying the players to allow them rest or support is criminal.

It manifested today when they played fabinho at the back when they needed him in midfield. His foul cost Liverpool the game when having a guy like Ben Mee playing wouldn't have fouled Cavani backing in to him like that

Have to clear up this. They paid £20 million total for Thiago - 5 this season with the remainder paid out over the next 4 years. There is another 6 million in possible add-ons.

But the key figure paid for Thiago this season is £5m.

Cookiemunster

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Foul incessantly. Pep would love him

He learnt if from Pep. 4 years at Barca (Pep gave him his debut) and 3 seasons under him at Bayern.

The_Kew_Tour

Fitz* wrote: »

Right. All I said is that there is double standards here.

Oh you're right there. As proven in the easy going joke thread today;)

TAA was ruthlessly exposed again today. He's just not a good defender

Rashford caused him all sorts of problems

Gavlor

fyfe79 wrote: »

Have to clear up this. They paid £20 million total for Thiago - 5 this season with the remainder paid out over the next 4 years. There is another 6 million in possible add-ons.

But the key figure paid for Thiago this season is £5m.

That’s pretty much how all transfers work. Very few are paid upfront so to put it frankly, that post is nonsense.

20m is still good value but calling it 5m is rubbish

fyfe79

Gavlor wrote: »

That’s pretty much how all transfers work. Very few are paid upfront so to put it frankly, that post is nonsense.

20m is still good value but calling it 5m is rubbish

Ah here, I give up.

Carry on.

Shanotheslayer

fyfe79 wrote: »

Have to clear up this. They paid £20 million total for Thiago - 5 this season with the remainder paid out over the next 4 years. There is another 6 million in possible add-ons.

But the key figure paid for Thiago this season is £5m.

Gavlor wrote: »

That’s pretty much how all transfers work. Very few are paid upfront so to put it frankly, that post is nonsense.

20m is still good value but calling it 5m is rubbish

fyfe79 wrote: »

Ah here, I give up.

Carry on.

Don't see what the issue is Fyfe. Whenever you hest transfer sums in paper etc €120M for Ronaldo etc etc. You hardly expect it to be €120M straight up? All transfers are paid over a few years.

Unless i'm misunderstanding you're saying it's €20M + 6M in addons so potentially up to €26M? Or is the €6M included in the €20M?

fyfe79

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Don't see what the issue is Fyfe. Whenever you here transfer sums in paper etc €120M for Ronaldo etc etc. You hardly expect it to be €120M straight up? All transfers are paid over a few years.

Unless i'm misunderstanding you're saying it's €20M + 6M in addons so potentially up to €26M? Or is the €6M included in the €20M?

I know the full figures are rarely paid up front.

But does anyone think that a quarter of a transfer fee is the usual first installment? That is unusually low and would not have much impact on the club this season in terms of finance. The structuring of the deal was a major factor. The usual up-front payment is at least half.

Anyway, I was mainly replying to the claim that the fee was 30 million (a 33% mark-up on the agreed fee).

brinty

fyfe79 wrote:

Anyway, I was mainly replying to the claim that the fee was 30 million (a 33% mark-up on the agreed fee).

You said the fee was 20+6 that's still £26m GBP maybe it was 30m in euro I was thinking off. I know on heard a figure of 30m at the time he signed. Regardless it's still a huge sum to pay on a guy in the final year of his contract.

As I said when there were other needs elsewhere in the team and you already had 7 central midfielders (Ox, milner, hendo, fabinho,Keita,Gigi and shaqiri) with only three starting each game it was 20-30m which could've been used elsewhere in your team.

As I also said today, the game highlighted that you should've brought a centre back to supplement vvd, and the often injured duo of Gomez and Matip to replace the departed lovern. Only having three senior center backs in the modern game is criminal. It's a mistake that's cost you dearly.

Signing a Ben Mee would've helped endlessly today. Not a superstar but an experienced player who knows how to defend. Young Williams had to be guided by a midfielder today and it cost Liverpool.

In finishing we all know how transfers work, they're never paid in full up front, it's a large chunk up front and annual thereafter. But the fee is still the fee, no matter how it's broken down.

It amuses me that some Liverpool fans will say how much United paid for a player ignoring add ons, bonuses etc but forget that when it comes to their own team. I know some United fans do likewise, City fans, arsenal etc etc. So they're not alone but I laugh when they try and ignore it in their own signings.

Shanotheslayer

fyfe79 wrote: »

I know the full figures are rarely paid up front.

But does anyone think that a quarter of a transfer fee is the usual first installment? That is unusually low and would not have much impact on the club this season in terms of finance. The structuring of the deal was a major factor. The usual up-front payment is at least half.

Anyway, I was mainly replying to the claim that the fee was 30 million (a 33% mark-up on the agreed fee).

Oh I've no idea what the usual fee up front is tbh. But I get what you mean

fyfe79

brinty wrote: »

You said the fee was 20+6 that's still £26m GBP maybe it was 30m in euro I was thinking off. I know on heard a figure of 30m at the time he signed. Regardless it's still a huge sum to pay on a guy in the final year of his contract.

As I said when there were other needs elsewhere in the team and you already had 7 central midfielders (Ox, milner, hendo, fabinho,Keita,Gigi and shaqiri) with only three starting each game it was 20-30m which could've been used elsewhere in your team.

As I also said today, the game highlighted that you should've brought a centre back to supplement vvd, and the often injured duo of Gomez and Matip to replace the departed lovern. Only having three senior center backs in the modern game is criminal. It's a mistake that's cost you dearly.

Signing a Ben Mee would've helped endlessly today. Not a superstar but an experienced player who knows how to defend. Young Williams had to be guided by a midfielder today and it cost Liverpool.

In finishing we all know how transfers work, they're never paid in full up front, it's a large chunk up front and annual thereafter. But the fee is still the fee, no matter how it's broken down.

It amuses me that some Liverpool fans will say how much United paid for a player ignoring add ons, bonuses etc but forget that when it comes to their own team. I know some United fans do likewise, City fans, arsenal etc etc. So they're not alone but I laugh when they try and ignore it in their own signings.

Yeah, fair enough on the Euro vs Sterling thing.

I don't remember exactly but I'm fairly sure the add-ons in Thiago's deal are not the usual performance related ones... they're related to winning the CL and PL so would be covered by the prize money in those competitions.

But if someone read your original post, without knowing the details of the deal, they would think that Liverpool didn't buy a CB this season because they've already paid BM £15-20m (out of £30m) for Thiago, with the rest to follow. They have paid £5m to BM this season, so it's unlikely to have had much of a bearing on other transfers.

The club prioritised Jota over a CB, considering the much larger fee and normal structuring of that deal. I think Thiago was seen by the club as a "free-hit" on the basis of how the deal was struck.

Girly Gal

fyfe79 wrote: »

Yeah, fair enough on the Euro vs Sterling thing.

I don't remember exactly but I'm fairly sure the add-ons in Thiago's deal are not the usual performance related ones... they're related to winning the CL and PL so would be covered by the prize money in those competitions.

But if someone read your original post, without knowing the details of the deal, they would think that Liverpool didn't buy a CB this season because they've already paid BM £15-20m (out of £30m) for Thiago, with the rest to follow. They have paid £5m to BM this season, so it's unlikely to have had much of a bearing on other transfers.

The club prioritised Jota over a CB, considering the much larger fee and normal structuring of that deal. I think Thiago was seen by the club as a "free-hit" on the basis of how the deal was struck.

Looks like we'll save on paying out those add ons anyways!

Optimalprimerib

The utd liverpool game was one of the best I have seen in a long time. It was clear that the shackles were off and the glory of winning overcome the fear of losing when compared to the game the week before.

I thought utd shaded it and had better chances, but it was when one team looked dominant, the other team actually scored, so it was a great watch.

I don't get the uproar over the free kick that lead to the goal though. It was a free all day long for me.

Also the possession argument is one that I thought was over and done with. Leicester win the majority of their games with less possession. The game has evolved from the barca era and is now more about quick breaks.

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

Lads lads it was the fa cup, you are embarrassing yourself. The fa Cup come on, congrats and move on, nobody really cares, half you lot admitted it before the game.

I tell you whats embarassing your defence of the premier league from supposedly the greatest premier league team ever

yourdeadwright

brinty wrote: »

When you pay a world record for vvd and Allison, leagues and european cups are a minimum expectation. But not buying the players to allow them rest or support is criminal.

So when you paid a world record fees for Pogba & Maguire where leagues and European cups your minimum expectations ?

How did that go

niallo27

brinty wrote: »

When you've 6 quality midfielders paying 30 million for a guy with a year left on his contact is a luxury in my opinion. Especially when you need centre backs, sub keeper, and a second front player.

When you pay a world record for vvd and Allison, leagues and european cups are a minimum expectation. But not buying the players to allow them rest or support is criminal.

It manifested today when they played fabinho at the back when they needed him in midfield. His foul cost Liverpool the game when having a guy like Ben Mee playing wouldn't have fouled Cavani backing in to him like that

So when you pay world records for players, European cups and leagues are a minimum. City have never qualified for a final never mind won it and utd can't even get out of the group stages having both spent world record amounts on players. Jota was brought in as well in case you forgot.

yourdeadwright

I'm not sure if anyone is actually serious saying Liverpool need to sign Ben Mee ?
Please tell me your taking the piss ?

Ben Mee is good at what he does so all credit to him but its in a team that defends with a low block and has full backs beside him and midfielders in front of him ,

If he joined Liverpool he is all of a sudden playing 30 yards higher up the pitch with full backs pushed on all of a sudden he has space behind him and to his sides and is expected to excellent and quick passing on the ball ,

Shanotheslayer

niallo27 wrote: »

City have never qualified for a final never mind won it.

And Pep is slaughtered for it every year saying that it's the expectation?