ASTI members vote for industrial action over Covid issues

Tomtom3105

alroley wrote: »

I was being sarcastic )))

But you know, obsess over this if you want to.

Not obsessed just a little pleased you have demonstrated my arguement so well thats all. Never even got as far as my junior cert in school wish I had stayed on and became a teacher so I could read write and debate gooder. Run along you have a placard to colour in.

alroley

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

Not obsessed just a little pleased you have demonstrated my arguement so well thats all. Never even got as far as my junior cert in school wish I had stayed on and became a teacher so I could read write and debate gooder. Run along you have a placard to colour in.

I'm not a member of the ASTI, but nice attempt at a shot there

ILoveYourVibes

JimmyCorkhill wrote: »

They are something else, was only ever a matter of time

NOBODY will support them if it gets to a strike.

They are so precious.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1028/1174494-asti-ballot/

Secondary school teachers who are members of the ASTI trade union have voted in favour of industrial action, up to and including strike action, unless the Government immediately addresses a number of key Covid related issues in schools.

A lot of people will support them.

blanch152

alroley wrote: »

You literally said teachers would get covid and die from going to parties. wtf planet are you on if you think there will be school Christmas parties and that teachers will go to parties!?

I said if teachers are to die from COVID, it won’t be from the workplace, it will be from activities such as I described. That is true.

I am already aware of some parties and gatherings that were held in private houses by teachers for teachers in September that led to cases.

alroley

blanch152 wrote: »

I said if teachers are to die from COVID, it won’t be from the workplace, it will be from activities such as I described. That is true.

I am already aware of some parties and gatherings that were held in private houses by teachers for teachers in September that led to cases.

Sure.

Icyseanfitz

:pac::rolleyes:

blanch152 wrote: »

I said if teachers are to die from COVID, it won’t be from the workplace, it will be from activities such as I described. That is true.

I am already aware of some parties and gatherings that were held in private houses by teachers for teachers in September that led to cases.

markodaly

mikep wrote: »

I think I read somewhere that ASTI leadership are full of PBP/ Rise/ People's front of Judea types so not too surprised at this...

This is true.

The ASTI are arguably the most militant Union in Ireland, always looking for a strike and to fight 'The man!'.

Speaking from experience from family members who were members of the ASTI they would say the same, that they have gone very extreme over the past decade or two.

markodaly

Donald Trump wrote: »

There would be no issue with these new entrants had the existing teachers not been happy to pull the ladder up behind them and shaft newbies in 2010..

True. Remember the time when it was proposed to give new graduate teachers experience with Job Bridge back in the dark times of the crash?

The Unions rejected it outright, even though one can imagine the help and extra support they would have given students.

Don't let any of the talk fool you. The ASTI are out for themselves and use students as cover when it suits. They don't give a rats ass about children's education or their students, so long as they themselves are looked after first and foremost.

Bobtheman

markodaly wrote: »

This is true.

The ASTI are arguably the most militant Union in Ireland, always looking for a strike and to fight 'The man!'.

Speaking from experience from family members who were members of the ASTI they would say the same, that they have gone very extreme over the past decade or two.

The members voted for strike. So are the members extreme? Is equal pay for equal work exteme?

Mod

1 day forum ban for ignoring threadban.

Dav010

alroley wrote: »

Same! My Dad is high risk and still suffering daily from Covid he caught in March. I can't risk seeing him since being back at school, but at least if I got tested I could go home and see my parents at Christmas.

You will soon be able to get a rapid test in Boots, results in 12 mins.

Reading what has been written in this thread, I think, gives a good indication of what the public reaction will be, particularly if schools close. Most of the public will not fully understand the teachers concerns, many will think teachers working conditions are better than theirs, a lot will assume it is a cynical attempt to get a pay rise.

Unfortunately teachers, in what I can only assume is either stupidity or just being tone deaf, decided to elevate their issue to one about pay when hundreds of thousands are on reduced hours, temporarily off work, or worse, have lost their jobs altogether. It really is mind boggling.

On another thread, many teachers posted they don’t care about public perception or support, they don’t need it, their position is too strong, their conviction too true. Again, I think personally this shows an incredible lack of awareness, if parents in hard pressed working families have to stay home to mind kids off school, causing further financial hardship, and, parents concerns for their kids education elevate, the teaching profession is going to be the target for their displeasure.

Lastly, at the risk of labouring the point, in a union with supposedly intelligent members, surely someone said to the Union heads, balloting on strike action for a pay increase might not be the brightest thing to do at the moment, let’s keep the message about Covid and safety concerns. So please, enough of the snide remarks about other posters ability to assimilate the information, ASTI members who voted on this are not exactly beacons for intelligent thought at the moment.

patnor1011

Bobtheman wrote: »

The members voted for strike. So are the members extreme? Is equal pay for equal work exteme?

Nope. But due to current hardship we face I am sure their equal pay for equal work can be met in the middle.
Seniors can take paycut so new entrants can be better off and they all will be happy. Remember we all are in this together.

If anyone think that country which borrows billions to barely function have money for payrise for anyone they needs to have their head examined.

Mrsmum

The big question imo is why so many members of ASTI didn't vote at all and what is their opinion - are they satisfied, resigned, unconcerned, disillusioned or what ?
A huge number of them didn't vote at all.

machiavellianme

Dav010 wrote: »

You will soon be able to get a rapid test in Boots, results in 12 mins.

Reading what has been written in this thread, I think, gives a good indication of what the public reaction will be, particularly if schools close. Most of the public will not fully understand the teachers concerns, many will think teachers working conditions are better than theirs, a lot will assume it is a cynical attempt to get a pay rise.

Unfortunately teachers, in what I can only assume is either stupidity or just being tone deaf, decided to elevate their issue to one about pay when hundreds of thousands are on reduced hours, temporarily off work, or worse, have lost their jobs altogether. It really is mind boggling.

On another thread, many teachers posted they don’t care about public perception or support, they don’t need it, their position is too strong, their conviction too true. Again, I think personally this shows an incredible lack of awareness, if parents in hard pressed working families have to stay home to mind kids off school, causing further financial hardship, and, parents concerns for their kids education elevate, the teaching profession is going to be the target for their displeasure.

Lastly, at the risk of labouring the point, in a union with supposedly intelligent members, surely someone said to the Union heads, balloting on strike action for a pay increase might not be the brightest thing to do at the moment, let’s keep the message about Covid and safety concerns. So please, enough of the snide remarks about other posters ability to assimilate the information, ASTI members who voted on this are not exactly beacons for intelligent thought at the moment.

What makes you think that teachers or their unions are intelligent? They merely only need to have more information than the kids they teach, regurgitate it 40 times over their career and retire. It's not exactly groundbreaking stuff.

square ball

Why wait until the mid-term break before deciding that work conditions are unsafe?

Would they not have been unsafe when the school's reopened in September?

I understand the issues with contract tracing app, a lot of workplaces have asked employees to turn them off at work including nurses in hospitals. The function of the app is more to advise you that 'Johnny' that you don't know tested positive and was sitting near you on the bus or at the table next to you at a restaurant or pub etc.

Teachers are not the only people expected to work. It has been proven that transmission in schools is much lower than elsewhere in the community. Nurses, doctor's, HCA's, cleaners, guards, firefighters, EMT's, retail staff and other public servants are working since March with little or no complaint.

None of them have used the current situation to hold the country hostage to get more pay.

Closing the school's will make a lot of parents unemployed. The threat of strike action is causing massive stress to people who are struggling through the pandemic trying to keep food on the table and bills paid.

It's time for the teachers of Ireland to grow up a small bit, roll the sleeves up and get on with it like everyone else. The option to leave the profession and find some other line of work if the job is so difficult is there as well. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head.

Rodney Bathgate

machiavellianme wrote: »

What makes you think that teachers or their unions are intelligent? They merely only need to have more information than the kids they teach, regurgitate it 40 times over their career and retire. It's not exactly groundbreaking stuff.

They just need to be one page ahead.

JP100

blanch152 wrote: »

I said if teachers are to die from COVID, it won’t be from the workplace, it will be from activities such as I described. That is true.

I am already aware of some parties and gatherings that were held in private houses by teachers for teachers in September that led to cases.

Cool story bro.

raspberrypi67

Hogzy wrote: »

Jesus what a time to bring up the equal pay arguement!

Zero support from me. We have all had to put up with less than ideal working conditions during COVID but of course its the teachers whinging and moaning as per usual.

Nurses have been working tirelessly the last 6-7 months and putting the health of themselves and their families on the line yet the teachers are the ones moaning! Student nurses barely getting paid to do the work of a full time nurses yet the teachers have been off the last few months! Absolute joke!

They should join the private sector, I've had a drop in salary since 2008, no pay increase since then what so ever, I droped one third of my salary.
No job security really , unlike the public sector!!!

alroley

alroley wrote: »

This is actually disgusting. Imagine saying that about any other profession.

But don't you worry! Two children I teach tested positive(one of them sits right beside the whiteboard) and I was told no need to restrict my movements and carry on as normal Luckily I live with three other teachers (who are as disposable lol - just replace us with untrained people who won't ask for a safe work place) and not my elderly parents.

Gotta achieve that herd immunity through children and teachers!!

Apologies for skipping lots of pages and perhaps this has been answered.

Did you contract Covid from either of the 2 children you mention?

Benicetomonty

Mrsmum wrote: »

The big question imo is why so many members of ASTI didn't vote at all and what is their opinion - are they satisfied, resigned, unconcerned, disillusioned or what ?
A huge number of them didn't vote at all.

Ballots are usually conducted in schools which always leads to a greater turnout as the steward can just take them back there and then and mail them in bulk. This time, due to COVID, ballots were mailed to houses, which made more work for voters as they wouldve had to mail them themselves. Obv if it was an issue you felt passionately about youd have still expected a bigger turnout but I feel, like others, that there were too many questions posed and that many teachers, having survived first term (no pun intended), decided that they had faced enough covid related issues over the last 7 months to enthusiastically engage with the ballot.

On top of that, lack of committment from some of the membership as regards respecting the results of previous ballots as well as the inevitable battering that would come from the media and the public regardless of the vote's outcome, as well as the residual sting of FEMPI measures that were inflicted upon the ASTI during the last dispute have unquestionably left many teachers disenfranchised.

And finally, Im sure that for many, life just got in the way.

Baggly

machiavellianme wrote: »

What makes you think that teachers or their unions are intelligent? They merely only need to have more information than the kids they teach, regurgitate it 40 times over their career and retire. It's not exactly groundbreaking stuff.

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

They just need to be one page ahead.

Mod

Ill give you the benefit of the doubt this time that you arent just trolling others with these posts. Pull it back please lads.

Treppen

machiavellianme wrote: »

What makes you think that teachers or their unions are intelligent? They merely only need to have more information than the kids they teach, regurgitate it 40 times over their career and retire. It's not exactly groundbreaking stuff.

Have you ever taught kids before?

Bananaleaf

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

They just need to be one page ahead.

If it is honestly that simple, why are so many parents adamant that schools remain open?

Treppen

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

They should join the private sector, I've had a drop in salary since 2008, no pay increase since then what so ever, I droped one third of my salary.
No job security really , unlike the public sector!!!

And here we have true Irish begrudgery at its most honest.

My job stinks and you need to give up those years of educating yourself to become a professional to come sit with me in my wallowing.

If teaching is such a doodle why don't you come and join us buddy. The waters warm , jump in!

Loadsa jobs here https://www.educationposts.ie/

... didn't think so

Mrsmum

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Ballots are usually conducted in schools which always leads to a greater turnout as the steward can just take them back there and then and mail them in bulk. This time, due to COVID, ballots were mailed to houses, which made more work for voters as they wouldve had to mail them themselves. Obv if it was an issue you felt passionately about youd have still expected a bigger turnout but I feel, like others, that there were too many questions posed and that many teachers, having survived first term (no pun intended), decided that they had faced enough covid related issues over the last 7 months to enthusiastically engage with the ballot.

On top of that, lack of committment from some of the membership as regards respecting the results of previous ballots as well as the inevitable battering that would come from the media and the public regardless of the vote's outcome, as well as the residual sting of FEMPI measures that were inflicted upon the ASTI during the last dispute have unquestionably left many teachers disenfranchised.

And finally, Im sure that for many, life just got in the way.

Thank you for that. It's just from reading school threads on here, it seem like the message is that all teachers feel this is a life and death issue. And yet, less than half of ASTI teachers, when given the opportunity to vote on the matter, were engaged enough to do so. It doesn't sound to me that the union's mandate is on very steady ground even from within.

Dr. Bre

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

They should join the private sector, I've had a drop in salary since 2008, no pay increase since then what so ever, I droped one third of my salary.
No job security really , unlike the public sector!!!

Poor you. You chose your career

Benicetomonty

Mrsmum wrote: »

Thank you for that. It's just from reading school threads on here, it seem like the message is that all teachers feel this is a life and death issue. And yet, less than half of ASTI teachers, when given the opportunity to vote on the matter, were engaged enough to do so. It doesn't sound to me that the union's mandate is on very steady ground even from within.

It is very certainly a life or death issue for some. For everybody else, it more a matter of transparency. I expect a lot of those who didnt vote were and are quite justifiably in disbelief that a ballot was even required to ensure that schools would be treated in a way that is consistent with the HSE's advice when it comes to safety in the workplace, which may also have contributed to the low turnout.

There may also be trepidation at the idea of somehow triggering a return to remote learning. And I cannot stress enough that no teacher in their right mind wants schools to shut if that is the alternative.

Dav010

Bananaleaf wrote: »

If it is honestly that simple, why are so many parents adamant that schools remain open?

So their children can be educated and they, the parents, can go to work and earn presumably.

Treppen wrote: »

If teaching is such a doodle why don't you come and join us buddy. The waters warm , jump in!

I suspect few people think teaching is a “doodle”, but fewer again think you are more at risk when compared with others who have to work inside at the moment. If the “water” is job security, pay security, sick pay, holiday etc, I agree with you, the water is indeed warm.

Dav010

Benicetomonty wrote: »

It is very certainly a life or death issue for some. For everybody else, it more a matter of transparency. I expect a lot of those who didnt vote were and are quite justifiably in disbelief that a ballot was even required to ensure that schools would be treated in a way that is consistent with the HSE's advice when it comes to safety in the workplace, which may also have contributed to the low turnout.

There may also be trepidation at the idea of somehow triggering a return to remote learning. And I cannot stress enough that no teacher in their right mind wants schools to shut if that is the alternative.

Are you claiming that the majority of teachers, who did not vote in this ballot, were doing so out of support of the issues being voted on? That is an interesting viewpoint.

Donald Trump

Treppen wrote: »

And here we have true Irish begrudgery at its most honest.

My job stinks and you need to give up those years of educating yourself to become a professional to come sit with me in my wallowing.

If teaching is such a doodle why don't you come and join us buddy. The waters warm , jump in!

Loadsa jobs here https://www.educationposts.ie/

... didn't think so

Teachers always bring this up "why don't you become a teacher" as a "gotcha" when it is actually a non-sequitur.


A person can have an opinion that teachers have it easy, or are well paid (or even overpaid) for what they do, without needing to want to become one.


For example, if you hire a babysitter on Friday night for 4 hours and the 18 year old babysitter charges you 100 quid (that's 25 quid an hour....just in case you were wondering) then you are entitled to have the opinion that the babysitter is getting overpaid or that it is a cushy number. You don't have to quit your own job to become a babysitter in order to have that opinion.


In a normal job you might have increments or annual raises. But with each increment or raise would come an expectation of more responsibility or tasks. A teacher with 20 years employment gets paid more than one with 10 years employment for doing the exact same job.



It doesn't happen anywhere else. You have a burst pipe and you ring the plumbing company and they send out Paddy and the company sends you a bill for 100 Euro. Then the next week there is an identical leak, you ring them again and they end out Jim and you get a bill for 150 Euro.... you ring the company they say "yeah...well we know they did the exact same work...it's just that Paddy has been doing the same thing every day for 10 years and Jim has been doing the same thing every day for 20".





Sure didn't it used to be used to be the case that if a teacher got elected as a TD, and a sub was hired to do their work for a few years, that the TD-teacher kept the difference between their salary and the subs salary? Is that correct or is it an urban myth? Actually I googled it

SouthWesterly

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

They should join the private sector, I've had a drop in salary since 2008, no pay increase since then what so ever, I droped one third of my salary.
No job security really , unlike the public sector!!!

Public sector also had pay reductions. If its so great, apply for one of the many jobs on offer.