ASTI members vote for industrial action over Covid issues

benneca1

yabadabado wrote: »

I stand corrected.

Is there 4 levels of risk ?

Are there 4 levels

s1ippy

Augeo wrote: »

So strike for 5 days and 2/7s of weekly wage is still received?
That's almost 30% of salary ...... no wonder the unions don't throw a few euro in.

I'm pretty sure they usually strike for three or four days and go in on the Friday so they're paid for the weekend. If you haven't been available for work on Friday then you're not paid on the weekend either. As I understand it.

Dav010

Bananaleaf wrote: »

, it's a bit like the 'what are those factory workers doing complaining about cramped conditions for, sure aren't they lucky to be here and be given a job?' argument that some (not saying you) like to come out with

What the ASTI fail to appreciate is that it is those very factory workers who may be most effected by your actions. It is the employees who can least afford to be off work to mind kids who will be most affected financially, it will be their kids who may need the attendance at school the most. But nice try to deflect the conversation.

History Queen

Augeo wrote: »

So strike for 5 days and 2/7s of weekly wage is still received?
That's almost 30% of salary ...... no wonder the unions don't throw a few euro in.

Has never happened (in my career anyway) so I don't know. Seems that way on paper but I doubt very much that would actually happen. Nor should it.

History Queen

s1ippy wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they usually strike for three or four days and go in on the Friday so they're paid for the weekend. If you haven't been available for work on Friday then you're not paid on the weekend either. As I understand it.

That's not the case. Strike days in recent years have only been single days here and there.

blanch152

History Queen wrote: »

No we are not effectively paid while on strike. We aren't paid for strike days. Our wages are calculated over 7 days. Our sick leave is also taken this way. Ie if i miss work Friday and am sick all weekend and still out Monday i lose 4 days sick leave even though I would only have worked two of those days.
Teachers pay is just calculated that way, it's something got to do with public sector calculations of wages but I can't remember the details. It was explained to me years ago.

Strike pay in the education sector is deducted at 1/30, 1/31 or 1/28 of a month's pay, depending on the month, dates back to a 1950s circular.

That is why teacher unions never go on a full all-out strike. The hit to members is less if they just indulge in a day here or there, and the disruption to schools and parents is greater. They don't play fair, but they would argue they shouldn't have to.

s1ippy

s1ippy wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they usually strike for three or four days and go in on the Friday so they're paid for the weekend. If you haven't been available for work on Friday then you're not paid on the weekend either. As I understand it.

So Mon to Thurs strike results in 3/7s salary being paid....... 40% gross........ more net.

Baggly

benneca1 wrote: »

Are there 4 levels

Mod

Stay out of this thread.

History Queen

Augeo wrote: »

So Mon to Thurs strike results in 3/7s salary being paid....... 40% gross........ more net.

Again...doesn't happen

Charles Babbage

Two observations.

GNI per capita, even after Covid, is still up about two-thirds on 2010. Cuts to new entrants were appropriate then, but they should have been restored long ago.

The politicians are paying a great deal of money to be in the conference centre at present for their safety, but have no problem packing people into classrooms which are much smaller than Leinster House. There is strong element of double think going on here.

History Queen

History Queen wrote: »

That's not the case. Strike days in recent years have only been single days here and there.

Have they ever been on a Friday? Genuinely curious.

History Queen

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Have they ever been on a Friday? Genuinely curious.

Not to my recollection, but if someone wants to come along and correct me, please do.

History Queen

History Queen wrote: »

Not to my recollection, but if someone wants to come along and correct me, please do.

Thank you for your responses

History Queen

History Queen wrote: »

Again...doesn't happen

Government should just let them strike so whenever suits them. The country has more pressing concerns currently IMO.

dresden8

yabadabado wrote: »

Exactly this.
The serving teachers ****ed over everyone coming into the profession from 2011 onwards.

They really didn't give two ****s about anyone coming down the line when they agreed to a 2 tier system.

Teachers were wrong when they were browbeaten into a two tier pay system.

Teachers are wrong when they take industrial action over the issue.

Which is it? You can't have both.

Bananaleaf

Dav010 wrote: »

What the ASTI fail to appreciate is that it is those very factory workers who may be most effected by your actions. It is the employees who can least afford to be off work to mind kids who will be most affected financially, it will be their kids who may need the attendance at school the most. But nice try to deflect the conversation.

Nope, sorry you are wrong. Go back and look at what you wrote and what I replied. I did not deflect at all. Your point was about teachers and how, in your view, they are not entitled to complain about their situation.

I didn't vote for a strike and I'm not an ASTI member, so nobody will be missing out on their education because of my actions. I get the point you are making though. I have previously said on this thread that I don't agree with the strike.

However, there is a huge difference in why I disagree with it and why you disagree with it.

I disagree with it because I think we are essential workers and I believe that even though the schools are not 100% safe, having young adults in a controlled environment 7hrs a day is better than what they'd be left to get up to if they were at home (parents have enough to be doing trying to keep their own jobs and work from home)

You disagree with it because you envy us

Bananaleaf

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Have they ever been on a Friday? Genuinely curious.

Some of them have taken place during lunchtimes, in the middle of a working day.

dresden8

dresden8 wrote: »

Teachers were wrong when they were browbeaten into a two tier pay system..................

They agreed to it iirc.

History Queen

Augeo wrote: »

They agreed to it iirc.

They didn't.

Dav010

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Nope, sorry you are wrong. Go back and look at what you wrote and what I replied. I did not deflect at all. Your point was about teachers and how, in your view, they are not entitled to complain about their situation.

I didn't vote for a strike and I'm not an ASTI member, so nobody will be missing out on their education because of my actions. I get the point you are making though. I have previously said on this thread that I don't agree with the strike.

However, there is a huge difference in why I disagree with it and why you disagree with it.

I disagree with it because I think we are essential workers and I believe that even though the schools are not 100% safe, having young adults in a controlled environment 7hrs a day is better than what they'd be left to get up to if they were at home (parents have enough to be doing trying to keep their own jobs and work from home)

You disagree with it because you envy us

Again, the lack of awareness.

Teachers are entitled to complain, everyone is. What is nauseating is that at this time you would vote to strike over pay, and conditions that every else is getting on with. We are all being affected by Covid, but it’s you guys who want to strike if your pay doesn’t go up.

Many, many people are working today in essential services, who else is threatening to strike?

Personally I don’t envy you, I can see why many do though. I disagree with you because I believe you are wrong to be threatening strike action at this time. I think your actions are cynical and opportunistic.

History Queen

Dav010 wrote: »

Again, the lack of awareness.

Teachers are entitled to complain, everyone is. What is nauseating is that at this time you would vote to strike over pay, and conditions that every else is getting on with. We are all being affected by Covid, but it’s you guys who want to strike if your pay doesn’t go up.

Many, many people are working today in essential services, who else is threatening to strike?

Personally I don’t envy you, I can why many do though. I disagree with you because I believe you are wrong to be threatening strike action at this time.

Doctors are threatening to strike
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/public-health-doctors-threaten-strike-action-over-pay-row-1.4358409

Bananaleaf

Dav010 wrote: »

Again, the lack of awareness.

Teachers are entitled to complain, everyone is. What is nauseating is that at this time you would vote to strike over pay, and conditions that every else is getting on with. We are all being affected by Covid, but it’s you guys who want to strike if your pay doesn’t go up.

Many, many people are working today in essential services, who else is threatening to strike?

Personally I don’t envy you, I can see why many do though. I disagree with you because I believe you are wrong to be threatening strike action at this time. I think your actions are cynical and opportunistic.

I'll say it again. I haven't voted for strike action. I don't agree with it.

The fact that you continue to direct your dissatisfaction at me proves your real motive.

In the post of yours that I picked up on, you did not say the above. You did not say that you are unhappy that teachers want to strike because their conditions are the same as everyone elses. You said that they are complaining about enviable working conditions. Implying that rather than having it the same as everyone else, that they had it better. You know that there is no special testing and tracing going on in schools, so your point had to be about something other than Covid.

As a teacher I am happy to continue going to work and not striking. I'm not doing my job to the standard I used to though, because I am minding myself and making sure that I don't become a close contact. Nobody minds though because I am turning up every day and not being an inconvenience to employer and parents.

Mrsmum

Imo ASTI have a rubbish mandate for any action here. Over half of their members didn't bother to vote at all. Of those who did vote, a significant number voted against any action so if you add those who chose not to vote at all to those who voted in a non supportive way, it seems the tail is wagging the dog.

Dav010

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I'll say it again. I haven't voted for strike action. I don't agree with it.

The fact that you continue to direct your dissatisfaction at me proves your real motive.

In the post of yours that I picked up on, you did not say the above. You did not say that you are unhappy that teachers want to strike because their conditions are the same as everyone elses. You said that they are complaining about enviable working conditions. Implying that rather than having it the same as everyone else, that they had it better. You know that there is no special testing and tracing going on in schools, so your point had to be about something other than Covid.

As a teacher I am happy to continue going to work and not striking. I'm not doing my job to the standard I used to though, because I am minding myself and making sure that I don't become a close contact. Nobody minds though because I am turning up every day and not being an inconvenience to employer and parents.

Bananaleaf, at present PS have it better than almost everyone else, job security, pay security, sick pay, holidays etc. How many permanent teachers have had their pay reduced, hours reduced, been laid off since March? There seems to be this impenetrable wall in the mind of teachers that prevents them from seeing this. But employment entitlements is not my issue with you, and I don’t mean you personally, is that despite all of these entitlements, you want to discommode others, if you don’t get a pay rise.

Do you think everyone going in to work this morning is being tested?

I would have some understanding for you if a pay increase hadn’t been one of the conditions, I can’t help but feel if pay went up, for many who voted, Covid concerns would evaporate. But that is probably why it was put on the ballot.

History Queen

Dav010 wrote: »

Bananaleaf, at present PS have it better than almost everyone else, job security, pay security, sick pay, holidays etc. How many permanent teachers have had their pay reduced, hours reduced, been laid off since March? There seems to be this impenetrable wall in the mind of teachers that prevents them from seeing this. But employment entitlements is not my issue with you, and I don’t mean you personally, is that despite all of these entitlements, you want to discommode others, if you don’t get a pay rise.

Do you think everyone going in to work this morning is being tested?

You still don't understand the issues. Asti aren't looking for daily testing. They also aren't looking for a pay rise but pay equalisation for their younger members (they are almost a decade campaigning for this, though I agree now is not the time).

Why do you feel that schools should not be afforded the same safety measures in terms of contact tracing as wider society?

Have you the same issue with doctors looking for more pay?

BurgundyRose

Industrial action makes sense if schools are not safe for both students and teachers alike when it comes covid infections.

Dav010

History Queen wrote: »

You still don't understand the issues. Asti aren't looking for daily testing. They also aren't looking for a pay rise but pay equalisation for their younger members (they are almost a decade campaigning for this, though I agree now is not the time).

Why do you feel that schools should not be afforded the same safety measures in terms of contact tracing as wider society?

Have you the same issue with doctors looking for more pay?

Pay equalisation/pay restoration/pay increase, what you are looking for is for more pay.

Doctors will not close Hospitals. Doctors do not have the working conditions you enjoy.

History Queen

Dav010 wrote: »

Pay equalisation/pay restoration/pay increase, what you are looking for is for more pay.

Doctors will not close Hospitals.

Teachers won't close hospitals either. You didn't answer my question about contact tracing.

Also I'm looking for nothing. I'm not in ASTI

mayo londoner

History Queen wrote: »

You still don't understand the issues. Asti aren't looking for daily testing. They also aren't looking for a pay rise but pay equalisation for their younger members (they are almost a decade campaigning for this, though I agree now is not the time).

Why do you feel that schools should not be afforded the same safety measures in terms of contact tracing as wider society?

Have you the same issue with doctors looking for more pay?

Sorry but this 'pay equalisation for their younger members' argument is complete and utter bull****. It's a payrise, no if's and but's about it.

This is coming from someone who was on the lower scale entering employment in a University in January 2012. But guess what, I signed up to the terms and conditions and got on with it. It's the same way throughout the private sector. Nauseating listening to the ****e coming out of teachers these days, the sense of entitlement is astounding.

History Queen

mayo londoner wrote: »

Sorry but this 'pay equalisation for their younger members' argument is complete and utter bull****. It's a payrise, no if's and but's about it.

This is coming from someone who was on the lower scale entering employment in a University in January 2012. But guess what, I signed up to the terms and conditions and got on with it. It's the same way throughout the private sector. Nauseating listening to the ****e coming out of teachers these days, the sense of entitlement is astounding.

It is just for younger members though? (Or those who joined the profession since 2011, not all young necessarily)