ASTI members vote for industrial action over Covid issues

Purplewaters

History Queen wrote: »

Because the single text changes every year? Because the 3 different text studied for the comparative change every year. Because the poems change every year?

Because a textbook containing a Shakespearen play and associated notes, a novel and associated notes, another play and associated notes, film notes, a selection of poems from at least 6 different poets and associated notes, essay writing notes, a selection of comprehensions, language skills chapters and general writing skills would probably be impossible to publish unless the writing was made minisucle? Oh... and as outlined above I'd have to publish a new textbook every year.

Again, don't pontificate about topics you clearly know little about.

Sure why do we have doctors and nurses, there is books with all that stuff too.

awec

I am pretty sure that there is no group of workers in Ireland with their head so far up their own arse as the teachers. They just can't help themselves. Doctors, nurses, supermarket workers, paramedics, guards, bus drivers, the rest of the essential workers, not a peep. Teachers back at work a wet week and they're at it already.

The people stacking shelves in supermarkets for example, likely to be earning little more than minimum wage, will come into close contact with a far greater number of people every day, and they haven't had a few months off already this year, and aren't half way through another 2 week break.

As for the pay rise thing, the mind truly boggles. ASTI do not exist in the real world.

History Queen

awec wrote: »

I am pretty sure that there is no group of workers in Ireland with their head so far up their own arse as the teachers. They just can't help themselves. Doctors, nurses, supermarket workers, paramedics, guards, bus drivers, the rest of the essential workers, not a peep. Teachers back at work a wet week and they're at it already.

The people stacking shelves in supermarkets for example, likely to be earning little more than minimum wage, will come into close contact with a far greater number of people every day, and they haven't had a few months off already this year, and aren't half way through another 2 week break.

As for the pay rise thing, the mind truly boggles. ASTI do not exist in the real world.

People stacking shelves in supermarkets got pay rises (not begrudging them at all just refuting your ascertion above) , doctors threatening strike action, university of limerick hospital nurses balloted (not sure of result). It's not that you haven't heard a peep, it's that people feel an entitlement to berate teachers and jump on their every perceived weakness and wrongdoing.

And who is getting a two week break?

Bananaleaf

awec wrote: »

I am pretty sure that there is no group of workers in Ireland with their head so far up their own arse as the teachers. They just can't help themselves. Doctors, nurses, supermarket workers, paramedics, guards, bus drivers, the rest of the essential workers, not a peep. Teachers back at work a wet week and they're at it already.

The people stacking shelves in supermarkets for example, likely to be earning little more than minimum wage, will come into close contact with a far greater number of people every day, and they haven't had a few months off already this year, and aren't half way through another 2 week break.

As for the pay rise thing, the mind truly boggles. ASTI do not exist in the real world.

It's just the one week this term

KaneToad

Dav010 wrote: »

They gave away the moral high ground when they included a demand for a pay rise at the time when hundreds of thousands are off work as a result of Covid.

They want pay equality. Not an outrageous demand either.

khalessi

awec wrote: »

I am pretty sure that there is no group of workers in Ireland with their head so far up their own arse as the teachers. They just can't help themselves. Doctors, nurses, supermarket workers, paramedics, guards, bus drivers, the rest of the essential workers, not a peep. Teachers back at work a wet week and they're at it already.

The people stacking shelves in supermarkets for example, likely to be earning little more than minimum wage, will come into close contact with a far greater number of people every day, and they haven't had a few months off already this year, and aren't half way through another 2 week break.

As for the pay rise thing, the mind truly boggles. ASTI do not exist in the real world.

Eh Gps seeing people over the phone

awec

History Queen wrote: »

People stacking shelves in supermarkets got pay rises (not begrudging them at all just refuting your ascertion above) , doctors threatening strike action, university of limerick hospital nurses balloted (not sure of result). It's not that you haven't heard a peep, it's that people feel an entitlement to berate teachers and jump on their every perceived weakness and wrongdoing.

And who is getting a two week break?

Oh, they earn a little bit more than minimum wage now. My goodness, how lucky are they.

People don't feel an entitlement to berate teachers, teachers do a pretty good job of setting themselves up for criticism. There is not a more entitled bunch of workers in the state, and the outcome of this vote proves it.

If the doctors and nurses do strike, then I'll likely support them. Unlike teachers, they don't have their head up their arse. They've been through far more than the teachers have this past year.

Bananaleaf wrote: »

It's just the one week this term

My bad, just the one week.

awec

khalessi wrote: »

Eh Gps seeing people over the phone

What about it?

khalessi

awec wrote: »

What about it?

Youre going on about doctors nurses etc working through it, well gps seeing people over the phone

FeirmeoirtTed

awec wrote: »

I am pretty sure that there is no group of workers in Ireland with their head so far up their own arse as the teachers. They just can't help themselves. Doctors, nurses, supermarket workers, paramedics, guards, bus drivers, the rest of the essential workers, not a peep. Teachers back at work a wet week and they're at it already.

The people stacking shelves in supermarkets for example, likely to be earning little more than minimum wage, will come into close contact with a far greater number of people every day, and they haven't had a few months off already this year, and aren't half way through another 2 week break.

As for the pay rise thing, the mind truly boggles. ASTI do not exist in the real world.

Yeah tell us what you really think about teachers there good man, there is as has already been stated no comparison between teachers working in a classroom for 6 hours with minimal ppe and all those other essential services, especially when pods and bubbles are not being tested so maybe get you own head out of your arse and open your eyes

History Queen

awec wrote: »

Oh, they earn a little bit more than minimum wage now. My goodness, how lucky are they.

People don't feel an entitlement to berate teachers, teachers do a pretty good job of setting themselves up for criticism. There is not a more entitled bunch of workers in the state, and the outcome of this vote proves it.

If the doctors and nurses do strike, then I'll likely support them. Unlike teachers, they don't have their head up their arse. They've been through far more than the teachers have this past year.



My bad, just the one week.

Aside from the pay equalisation claim (which should not have been included in the ballot) which of the other issues that the ASTI are striking for do you find objectionable? Also you are tarring all teachers for the actions of one union, this seems unfair and enforces my belief that you feel an entitlement to attack teachers.

awec

khalessi wrote: »

Youre going on about doctors nurses etc working through it, well gps seeing people over the phone

Yes, but you're being a dafty if you're trying to compare GPs and teachers.

I think this falls firmly into the "head up arse" scenario I have spoken of already.

khalessi

Well it is nice to see Boards condoning yet another thread slagging off teachers, under the guise of discussing strike action. We are in double figures now for threads with anti teacher sentiiment since March, must be a record Boards. At least they are all gathered in one spot I suppose.

Iscreamkone

Night nite teachers
Somebody has to get up early tomorrow to help pay your wages. Enjoy the lie in x

Smacruairi

awec wrote: »

Yes, but you're being a dafty if you're trying to compare GPs and teachers.

I think this falls firmly into the "head up arse" scenario I have spoken of already.

Youre the one who compared teachers to GPS. Also mentioned supermarket workers etc. Remind me though, are visiting hours in hospitals back? Are partners allowed in for the duration of wife giving birth etc?

awec

History Queen wrote: »

Aside from the pay equalisation claim (which should not have been included in the ballot) which of the other issues that the ASTI are striking for do you find objectionable? Also you are tarring all teachers for the actions of one union, this seems unfair and enforces my belief that you feel an entitlement to attack teachers.

You've already said you're not a member of ASTI, yet here you are defending this action. In fact, I am not sure there's been a teacher on this forum yet who has done anything other than support it, which seems to confirm the belief that while ASTI are the ones instigating this, teachers are equally detached from the real world irrespective of what union (or lack of union) they belong to.

A dedicated testing program. Guaranteed 24 hour turnaround. 2metre distancing in every classroom. Ignoring the pay rise issue, the other asks of the teachers are unworkable. But they know this already. So they can say "we want the schools open", while simultaneously making impossible demands.

Smacruairi

awec wrote: »

You've already said you're not a member of ASTI, yet here you are defending this action. In fact, I am not sure there's been a teacher on this forum yet who has done anything other than support it, which seems to confirm the belief that while ASTI are the ones instigating this, teachers are equally detached from the real world irrespective of what union (or lack of union) they belong to.

A dedicated testing program. Guaranteed 24 hour turnaround. 2metre distancing in every classroom. Ignoring the pay rise issue, the other asks of the teachers are unworkable. But they know this already. So they can say "we want the schools open", while simultaneously making impossible demands.

The 2m distancing was actually voted down. You might have missed that when you were ranting there.

So why are you against a comprehensive testing program? Why don't you want classes to have the same safety measures as supermarkets to reduce the R rate? What impossible demands? Are you ok?

Kivaro

Some astounding posts in the last few pages of this thread.
Maybe it's an attitude thing.
Maybe it's an entitled thing.
But one thing is for certain, ASTI teachers are not coming across in a positive light.

They need to think beyond themselves for a moment and ponder some introspection; maybe think about the students that show up for class in the middle of a worldwide pandemic instead? Think about how they feel.

awec

Smacruairi wrote: »

Youre the one who compared teachers to GPS. Also mentioned supermarket workers etc. Remind me though, are visiting hours in hospitals back? Are partners allowed in for the duration of wife giving birth etc?

Let's be clear here. A GPs job is to see sick people. This includes elderly people, pregnant women, people with underlying conditions. When people are sick, they go to their GP.

During a pandemic, it is completely sensible for GPs to limit the people they see, because they are unquestionably of an exceptional risk of getting Covid if they do not (unlike teachers).

But again, unlike teachers, GPs are able to do their job reasonably well over the phone. Teachers try to say they "worked from home", thinking that we're a nation of simpletons that just won't notice that remote teaching of children is bollocks.

In many cases teachers have kids of their own, so we're to believe that they're sitting at home, with their own kids, teaching other kids remotely, while the other kids sit and learn without their own parents having to essentially do the job of the teacher.

I am going to be honest and admit I have not go the foggiest what you're on about when it comes to hospital visiting. But I will say this, I did not compare teachers and doctors. I pointed out that people doing far more important jobs, in far more challenging and dangerous conditions, were doing their job without feeling the need to whinge about it (or threaten to close their place of employment if they don't get a pay rise).

If doctors and nurses asked for a payrise after this, I don't think too many people would begrudge them it. As for the teachers, well this thread speaks for itself. And while I'm sure teachers on here like to paint this as some sort of irrational dislike of our nation's educators, the reality is that teachers are so detached from reality, so devoid of any understanding of what others are going through, that they consistently bring the criticism on themselves.

It is evident and apparent throughout this thread, and in the covid forum too.

History Queen

awec wrote: »

You've already said you're not a member of ASTI, yet here you are defending this action. In fact, I am not sure there's been a teacher on this forum yet who has done anything other than support it, which seems to confirm the belief that while ASTI are the ones instigating this, teachers are equally detached from the real world irrespective of what union (or lack of union) they belong to.

A dedicated testing program. Guaranteed 24 hour turnaround. 2metre distancing in every classroom. Ignoring the pay rise issue, the other asks of the teachers are unworkable. But they know this already. So they can say "we want the schools open", while simultaneously making impossible demands.

I'm defending making schools safer, if you think that is detatched from the real world I despair.
2m distancing isn't one of the demands? Not sure you know what they are looking for, it was on ballotbut members didn't support it.

What is impossible about seeking a provision to allow teachers in the high-risk health category to teach from home? Or to have the same contact tracing afforded elsewhere afforded to schools?

Smacruairi

awec wrote: »

Let's be clear here. A GPs job is to see sick people. This includes elderly people, pregnant women, people with underlying conditions. When people are sick, they go to their GP.

During a pandemic, it is completely sensible for GPs to limit the people they see, because they are unquestionably of an exceptional risk of getting Covid if they do not (unlike teachers).

But again, unlike teachers, GPs are able to do their job reasonably well over the phone. Teachers try to say they "worked from home", thinking that we're a nation of simpletons that just won't notice that remote teaching of children is bollocks.

Teachers themselves have kids, so we're to believe that they're sitting at home, with their own kids, teaching other kids remotely, while the other kids sit and learn without their own parents having to essentially do the job of the teacher.

I am going to be honest and admit I have not go the foggiest what you're on about when it comes to hospital visiting. But I will say this, I did not compare teachers and doctors. I pointed out that people doing far more important jobs, in far more challenging and dangerous conditions, were doing their job without feeling the need to whinge about it.

If doctors and nurses asked for a payrise after this, I don't think too many people would begrudge them it. As for the teachers, well this thread speaks for itself. And while I'm sure teachers on here like to paint this as some sort of irrational dislike of our nation's educators, the reality is that teachers are so detached from reality, so devoid of any understanding of what others are going through, that they consistently bring the criticism on themselves.

It is evident and apparent throughout this thread, and in the covid forum too.

You stated that GPS and nurses and all else were working through it. Teachers are too if you haven't noticed. But the point I was making about visitation is that hospitals, surgeries, supermarkets, cinemas, restaurants, pubs, in fact every single aspect of society has drastically reduced the numbers through the doors to eliminate the spread of the virus. Schools however have been told that everyone must attend and absolutely not to offer any form of remote learning to reduce numbers. That is the discrepancy highlighted.

Teachers are unnecessarily complaining in your opinion. But you haven't mentioned anything about the children's safety, those of high risk, those missing out owing to anxiety etc. So sorry if I don't believe you fully understand the issue and that you might not be thinking clearly, especially when you say teachers are "whingers with their head up their arse". Also your use of the word simpleton is baffling here really. But then again you believe other people do "far more important jobs" than educating children so what more should I expect.you say we assume it's irrational dislike? Look at the language and tone of your message.

I ask again, what is wrong with proper contact tracing for students and staff, facilitating students and teachers who are medically high risk, and a testing programme for students that doesn't ask them to phone ppl themselves if they have it.

awec

History Queen wrote: »

I'm defending making schools safer, if you think that is detatched from the real world I despair.
2m distancing isn't one of the demands? Not sure you know what they are looking for, it was on ballotbut members didn't support it.

What is impossible about seeking a provision to allow teachers in the high-risk health category to teach from home? Or to have the same contact tracing afforded elsewhere afforded to schools?

Teaching from home is nonsense, let's stop pretending otherwise. We are talking about children of primary and secondary school age here.

If teachers are high risk and can't work, then stick them on PUP and bring someone else in.

awec

Smacruairi wrote: »

You stated that GPS and nurses and all else were working through it. Teachers are too if you haven't noticed. But the point I was making about visitation is that hospitals, surgeries, supermarkets, cinemas, restaurants, pubs, in fact every single aspect of society has drastically reduced the numbers through the doors to eliminate the spread of the virus. Schools however have been told that everyone must attend and absolutely not to offer any form of remote learning to reduce numbers. That is the discrepancy highlighted.

Teachers are unnecessarily complaining in your opinion. But you haven't mentioned anything about the children's safety, those of high risk, those missing out owing to anxiety etc. So sorry if I don't believe you fully understand the issue and that you might not be thinking clearly, especially when you say teachers are "whingers with their head up their arse". Also your use of the word simpleton is baffling here really. But then again you believe other people do "far more important jobs" than educating children so what more should I expect.you say we assume it's irrational dislike? Look at the language and tone of your message.

Yes, I think doctors and nurses do a more important job than teachers, in far more dangerous and challenging conditions. Do you think otherwise?

Please spare us all this "teachers were working" rubbish.

FeirmeoirtTed

awec wrote: »

Yes, but you're being a dafty if you're trying to compare GPs and teachers.

I think this falls firmly into the "head up arse" scenario I have spoken of already.

Let me dumb it down for you so and explain, gps are not meeting anyone with covid symptoms in person they are taking phone calls and referring them for covid tests.
Gps are meeting people who have no covid symptoms only when a phone consultation cannot work. I know this because I have had one of each.
Teachers are teaching in classrooms ranging from 25-30 in my school with face shields or masks and hand sanatiser, spending 6 hours per day with over 25 people in a room and still not being tested if there is a positive case in their classroom, again I know this because it has happened in my school. Each child in each class will usually have around 4 close contacts minimum so thats over 100 contacts this virus is airborne so you tell me now who is more at risk when community spread has increased to the level its at now?

Smacruairi

[quote="awec;115102190"

If teachers are high risk and can't work, then stick them on PUP and bring someone else in.[/quote]

Apart from being illegal, what about students in the high risk category. You want them to be sacrificed too?

History Queen

awec wrote: »

Teaching from home is nonsense, let's stop pretending otherwise. We are talking about children of primary and secondary school age here.

If teachers are high risk and can't work, then stick them on PUP and bring someone else in.

They don't have the option of PUP.

Donald Trump

History Queen wrote: »

What is impossible about seeking a provision to allow teachers in the high-risk health category to teach from home?

I'd love to hear your great idea on how to make that workable.



9am Irish class with Mrs. Murphy in room 11. 9:40am online maths class with Mr. Ryan. 10:20am Geography class in room 15 with Mrs. Reilly.


Where are the students for the online class? Left sitting in a classroom unsupervised with their laptops?

Maybe they have to travel home, log in, do the class and get back for the next class all within the 40 minutes? ...would have been a bit difficult for me as I lived about 8 miles from the school and travelled on a dedicated school bus...but how and ever

Smacruairi

Donald Trump wrote: »

I'd love to hear your great idea on how to make that workable.



9am Irish class with Mrs. Murphy in room 11. 9:40am online maths class with Mr. Ryan. 10:20am Geography class in room 15 with Mrs. Reilly.


Where are the students for the online class? Left sitting in a classroom unsupervised with their laptops?

Maybe they have to travel home, log in, do the class and get back for the next class all within the 40 minutes? ...would have been a bit difficult for me as I lived about 8 miles from the school and travelled on a dedicated school bus...but how and ever

Great questions. Why didn't you ask them of the DES in April like everyone else in the school community did, including the parent associations and advisory boards, only to be told, we are going ahead in Sept regardless.

Donald Trump

History Queen wrote: »

They don't have the option of PUP.

How about allowing all teachers a "free" sabbatical year? I mean in the sense if won't count towards their lifetime allowance of sabbaticals. Would that not work? Then if the can't work because of corona, they can claim the PUP.

History Queen

Donald Trump wrote: »

I'd love to hear your great idea on how to make that workable.



9am Irish class with Mrs. Murphy in room 11. 9:40am online maths class with Mr. Ryan. 10:20am Geography class in room 15 with Mrs. Reilly.


Where are the students for the online class? Left sitting in a classroom unsupervised with their laptops?

Maybe they have to travel home, log in, do the class and get back for the next class all within the 40 minutes? ...would have been a bit difficult for me as I lived about 8 miles from the school and travelled on a dedicated school bus...but how and ever

The Department of Education in their guidelines to schools envisage teachers teaching remotely (if say isolating due to close contact) with students supervised in school. I'd imagine ASTI envisage this working the same for high risk teachers.