ASTI members vote for industrial action over Covid issues

Purplewaters

awec wrote: »

Exactly. You don't get it.

You are not the only one on this thread in fairness.

Yeah I don't get it because you seem to think teachers haven't had to
A. Parent during a pandemic.
B.live during the pandemic
C. Work on the front line during the pandemic.

Teachers had to do a b and c.

Purplewaters

awec wrote: »

Exactly. You don't get it.

You are not the only one on this thread in fairness.

Anyway no harm filling out a late application to apply, otherwise maybe you should keep your expertise to your own job. Whatever that may be.

awec

Purplewaters wrote: »

Yeah I don't get it because you seem to think teachers haven't had to
A. Parent during a pandemic.
B.live during the pandemic
C. Work on the front line during the pandemic.

Teachers had to do a b and c.

Oh please.

Posts like this are genuinely a bit insulting to the people who actually have worked on the front line, and in other areas, ever since this pandemic broke out.

Purplewaters

awec wrote: »

Oh please.

Posts like this are genuinely a bit insulting to the people who actually have worked on the front line, and in other areas, ever since this pandemic broke out.

So what makes the pandemic different over the last 2 months? The cases are actually higher. Why does everyone have to be pit against each other anyway and have you worked at all in the last while. You never mention your own job.

Purplewaters

awec wrote: »

Oh please.

Posts like this are genuinely a bit insulting to the people who actually have worked on the front line, and in other areas, ever since this pandemic broke out.

Anyway hope you're not too tired when you're up for work in the morning. It's late.

Leftwaffe

Lol nothing like a good teacher bashing to console for ones own inadequacies.

Purplewaters

awec wrote: »

Oh please.

Posts like this are genuinely a bit insulting to the people who actually have worked on the front line, and in other areas, ever since this pandemic broke out.

Just to add, its the lack of respect you have for teachers putting themselves at risk that is insulting. You're just so bitter. If you think it's easy and you want to do the job then nobody is stopping you. If not then why are you so opinionated? Nobody stopped you becoming a teacher if its so great then go for it.

Purplewaters

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

Lol nothing like a good teacher bashing to console for ones own inadequacies.

100 percent and I've no idea why I'm on this defending people who deserve every penny they get.

PVNevin

There is no 'lockdown'. The states in Europe and North America had to take a step back in March, not out of notions of empathy, egalitarianism, duty etc. When did the governments, of the rich, ever do that?

They feared a mass campaign from below that would implement defence measures itself against the corona virus.
So these states retreated initially and took some, very limited, action. Thousands upon thousands died. No serious organisation, no plan, was undertaken.

Now, the gloves are off. The counter campaign is in full swing. What little controls were in place regarding stay in a safe place are dumped. Get back to work! Spend the money you have! Some people might die. Some people might get 'long' sickness. Suck it up!

---

Oppose the splitting of teachers from other workers. Watch the unions. They are the enemy in the camp.
Organise independent rank-and-file and community safety committees.

The unions and the state are not going to protect people. The contrary is the truth.

The issues facing us in Ireland are the same as anywhere in the world. The virus knows no boundaries. The issues do not either.
It is one world biologically and politically.

Teaching unions deepen collaboration with Johnson government’s “herd immunity” school policy
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/10/30/scuk-o30.html

Tomtom3105

Purplewaters wrote: »

Just to add, its the lack of respect you have for teachers putting themselves at risk that is insulting. You're just so bitter. If you think it's easy and you want to do the job then nobody is stopping you. If not then why are you so opinionated? Nobody stopped you becoming a teacher if its so great then go for it.

Genuine question... is there many teachers catching covid in the classroom or is there many teachers out sick with covid I feel like this would have been a headline for the campaign if there was such a statistic.

PVNevin

Genuine answer: the unions hide that information.

ASTI and all the unions will be getting feedback on infection rates. However, they have not called for, and more to the point are not organising, a collection and publication of data.

ASTI, INTO and the rest of the unions suppress information. Suppress the fightback.

Much phoney blather is expounded by the unions; to derail the struggles of workers.

khalessi

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

Genuine question... is there many teachers catching covid in the classroom or is there many teachers out sick with covid I feel like this would have been a headline for the campaign if there was such a statistic.

15% have had covid related leave since September

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1029/1174665-covid-school-outbreaks/

The numbers have only been released. If you have noticed until the last couple of weeks covid in schools has been the elephant in the room with NPHET and HSE.

The guidelines of what is a close contact are different for schools, than other sectors. The lack of continuity is ridiculous. The constant changing of goalposts. It is only in the last week or so the media are starting to question what is happening in schools and to question the discrepancy between the numbers given by the HSE and numbers recorded elsewherem one journalist chasing it is EMer o Kelly RTE. Zara King and Damien Lane are also questioning it.

Smacruairi

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

Genuine question... is there many teachers catching covid in the classroom or is there many teachers out sick with covid I feel like this would have been a headline for the campaign if there was such a statistic.

According to one article, 9000 teachers have recorded covid absence. However, schools were obviously not publishing teacher medical data to the entire community, same as with children, so that's Starting point anyway.

khalessi

PVNevin wrote: »

Genuine answer: the unions hide that information.

ASTI and all the unions will be getting feedback on infection rates. However, they have not called for, and more to the point are not organising, a collection and publication of data.

ASTI, INTO and the rest of the unions suppress information. Suppress the fightback.

Much phoney blather is expounded by the unions; to derail the struggles of workers.

Realistic answer, the unions dont have that information, and this post is full of inaccuracies but does show your biases.

theuser1123

It was only a matter of time before they would strike

khalessi

theuser1123 wrote: »

It was only a matter of time before they would strike

Correction they aren't on strike but continue with the inaccuracies

Smacruairi

theuser1123 wrote: »

It was only a matter of time before they would strike

You made a new account to make that post. Jesus that's pathetic.

khalessi

awec wrote: »

Yes, I think doctors and nurses do a more important job than teachers, in far more dangerous and challenging conditions. Do you think otherwise?

Please spare us all this "teachers were working" rubbish.

Is it more important no it is different.

Are the conditions challenging, yes it is a pandemic, they are challenging in all sectors.

The difference is the Health sector have been provided with proper ppe and testing. When requests for breakdown of numbers of staff infected with covid, that happened too. When covid increased, visitors were stopped going into hospitals, opd appointments were cancelled, surgeries were postponed. Patients attending hos[ital had temperatures taken on entrance to hospital. The HCW had to fight to get proper improved ppe in March and they got it in April, first batch was dodgy but has been for the most part fine since.

Teachers asked for a safe workplace, Dept of Ed promised guidelines in June, they didn't arrive. Instead interim guidelines from Dept of Health. While people think teachers were on holiday there were a number of them in each school coordinating the reopening of their school throughout the holidays. Dept of Ed finally issued indequate guidelines in July and then released funding 3 weeks before reopening. Teachers turned it around in 3 weeks and got schools reopened in August and September and have kept them open despite the lack of proper identification of close contacts, poor track and tracing, constant fobbing off by Dept of Health and Ed.

There have been issues re ppe, not everyone got it and some staff had to provide their own. There is now an issue with sanitiser that the Dept knew about on the Tuesday but didnt inform principals till 10pm Thursday night last week. THey have now been informed that there are a slew of other cleaning products and sanitisers that are unsuitable/dangerous and to sort it by Monday.

PVNevin

"However, they have not called for, and more to the point are not organising, a collection and publication of data."

The unions are in the paramount position to lead a struggle of workers.
They are in the paramount position to gather all data on the virus in the workplaces. This they can do not only through their members; but in leading the fight they would gain the support of non-union workers, who would eagerly respond to a genuine struggle.

But that is not going to happen. The unions are a crucial part of the apparatus of class rule by the bourgeoisie. They are enemies in the camp of the working class. There will be no struggle led by the unions. Union members and other workers are betrayed time and time again. Defending the 'unions' is defending the suppression of the struggle.

Defending the working class demands the promotion of the struggle. Gather the data on infection. Publish those numbers! Lead a fight!

You won't see ASTI doing that.

khalessi

PVNevin wrote: »

"However, they have not called for, and more to the point are not organising, a collection and publication of data."

The unions are in the paramount position to lead a struggle of workers.
They are in the paramount position to gather all data on the virus in the workplaces. This they can do not only through their members; but in leading a fight through the support of non-union workers who would eagerly respond to a genuine fight.

But that is not going to happen. The unions are a crucial part of the apparatus of class rule by the bourgeoisie. They are enemies in the camp of the working class. Defending the 'unions' is defending the suppression of the struggle.

Defending the working class demands the promotion of the struggle. Gather the data on infection. Publish those numbers! Lead a fight!

You won't see ASTI doing that.

It was the unions who called for the data a few weeks ago, yet again an inaccurate post, along with proper recording of cases in schools.

And strangely when they did and they managed to get some press attentions, we suddenly get told the number of cases in schools doubled week on week and that they woud have to gather the info.

PVNevin

Pro forma. The unions mouth pro forma 'calls'. To appear they are doing something.

We are always supposed to accept our lot. That's the union ideology. Like a priest and his sermon of rewards in the 'afterlife'. That means death with the virus.

Unions peddle the lie that only a few very petty reforms may be possible. That's how the union leaders see it - some scraps from the table of the ruling class. Meantime the situation and the conditions just get worse.

"it's all we can do" is the cry of the union 'leaders' (who were on nice salaries, and perks, and expenses, with a 'position' down the line on a quango or semi-state or company board or ...)

---

To hell with the unions! They are on the same side as the bosses.
Fight back! Organise independent safety committees!

The unions are not protecting us from the virus. They are going through the motions.
We all must unite and organise.

Baggly

Mod

This is not the conspiracy theories forum. You are free to hold whatever opinions you want, but please present the ones that have a basis in evidence here, so that they can be debated.

Posting things that have no evidence in proof does not help the discussion.

Dav010

KaneToad wrote: »

They want pay equality. Not an outrageous demand either.

There seems to a malady of the mind that afflicts teachers, it prevents them from recognising that when you threaten strike action unless pay is increased, you can call it pay equality, pay restoration, same pay for same job, but in reality, everyone sees it for what it is, teachers will strike if they don’t get more money, a pay rise.

JimToken

Dav010 wrote: »

There seems to a malady of the mind that afflicts teachers, it prevents them from recognising that when you threaten strike action unless pay is increased, you can call it pay equality, pay restoration, same pay for same job, but in reality, everyone sees it for what it is, teachers will strike if they don’t get more money, a pay rise.

That's mostly the unions there .

There will always be that necessary tension accompanied by media hype and the rest

Bass Reeves

Smacruairi wrote: »

According to one article, 9000 teachers have recorded covid absence. However, schools were obviously not publishing teacher medical data to the entire community, same as with children, so that's Starting point anyway.

It means nothing. My own daughter is a teacher. She got a head cold the weekend before last. On the Sunday she applied for a COVID test and it was done Sunday evening. She was in a house with two other teachers also has to take Monday off until she got her clear test on the Monday evening late. She was back teaching Tuesday.

Dempo1

This entire sanitizer issue is just becoming absurd. 52 products to be removed, WTF, are schools part time chemical storage plants?. Call this nonsense what it is, a cynical and underhanded whispering campaign to keep schools closed. The indo"s headline this morning is just beyond hysterical, one would think schools have been contantimed with nuclear fall out.

Principals having to scramble for replacent products over the weekend, God Bless them FFS.

Just cringe and vomit enducing crap FFS

Bass Reeves

Interesting international data starting to be one available regarding schools

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1030/1174784-schools-coronavirus/

Nermal

Purplewaters wrote: »

When you say online teaching doesn't work, do you mean that its not childcare and that you don't feel its your job to help with any aspect of educating your own kids? Just to be clear, because it could work otherwise.

Childcare is a component of a teacher’s job.

Teaching remotely is, effectively, not performing all your duties.

Are you prepared to take a significant pay cut to work remotely? If not, why do you think you deserve the same rewards for doing less work?

Donald Trump

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It means nothing. My own daughter is a teacher. She got a head cold the weekend before last. On the Sunday she applied for a COVID test and it was done Sunday evening. She was in a house with two other teachers also has to take Monday off until she got her clear test on the Monday evening late. She was back teaching Tuesday.

Is a person not supposed to quarantine for 14 days until a second test if they present with symptoms? The school shouldn't be bringing them back in if that is the case.



I think it's different for close contacts.

joebloggs32

Donald Trump wrote: »

Is a person not supposed to quarantine for 14 days until a second test if they present with symptoms? The school shouldn't be bringing them back in if that is the case.



I think it's different for close contacts.

The 14 day quarantine only applies to close contacts.

If somone develops symptoms without having being identified as a close contact then they get tested. If they test negative, and the symptoms have cleared for 48 hours they may return to work.