ASTI members vote for industrial action over Covid issues

History Queen

awec wrote: »

No?

You realise that households have went from 2 incomes to no incomes, right? This is what you are not getting.

If you have a teacher in your household, you are in a far better and far more secure situation than 2 people in the private sector.

Ofcourse i realise that. It isn't a competition but your apparent contention that because teachers have secure incomes they have no dfinancial worries isn't true. Anyway i won't change your hatred for us.

awec

khalessi wrote: »

Right so everyone in private sector here with partner in public sector get out? What a wishy washy viewpoint

No. But stop with the pleading poverty, it's ridiculous. Stop trying to suggest that teachers are just as vulnerable as private sector workers. Again, it's ridiculous.

awec

History Queen wrote: »

Ofcourse i realise that. It isn't a competition but your apparent contention that because teachers have secure incomes they have no dfinancial worries isn't true. Anyway i won't change your hatred for us.

Nobody said you have no financial worries. But you're not the same as everyone else.

Unlike teachers (and other private sector workers), there are people out there genuinely worried if they'll have a job after this.

History Queen

blanch152 wrote: »

I disagree, there was plenty of consultation, the number of circulars agreed by the unions with the Department and put up on the web are testamount to that.

The issue here is unreasonable union demands. They dropped the ask for some of the more ludicrous ones, but when we have real high-risk areas in the economy - hospitals, nursing homes, meat factories - still having to work on regardless, seeking special treatment for schools which are low-risk is the sign of a selfish self-centred approach from their union.

Curculars don't equal consultation

khalessi

awec wrote: »

No. But stop with the pleading poverty, it's ridiculous. Stop trying to suggest that teachers are just as vulnerable as private sector workers. Again, it's ridiculous.

You do not know anyone's circumstances so quit with making stuff up. It just shows your narrow mindedness that you assume teachers dont have money problems

screamer

blanch152 wrote: »

I disagree, there was plenty of consultation, the number of circulars agreed by the unions with the Department and put up on the web are testamount to that.

The issue here is unreasonable union demands. They dropped the ask for some of the more ludicrous ones, but when we have real high-risk areas in the economy - hospitals, nursing homes, meat factories - still having to work on regardless, seeking special treatment for schools which are low-risk is the sign of a selfish self-centred approach from their union.

I saw nothing about remote learning/ split classes/ rotating days, it’s all bull them all into their classrooms and get on with it. That’s not consultation or negotiation, it’s bullying, now the unions will fight fire with fire, it’s fair enough.
For the record I’m not a teacher nor is anyone in my family.

blanch152

History Queen wrote: »

Curculars don't equal consultation

All circulars are agreed through a consultation process with the teacher trade unions at the Teachers Conciliation Council.

blanch152

screamer wrote: »

I saw nothing about remote learning/ split classes/ rotating days, it’s all bull them all into their classrooms and get on with it. That’s not consultation or negotiation, it’s bullying, now the unions will fight fire with fire, it’s fair enough.
For the record I’m not a teacher nor is anyone in my family.

Here is the full list of resources available to schools:

https://www.education.ie/covid19


Why would there be anything about remote learning/split classes/rotating days? The science says the schools are safe, so why would those measures be needed?

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1030/1174784-schools-coronavirus/

Treppen

Donald Trump wrote: »

Again, the context was in response to a poster who said there was a union rep on the radio giving the poor mouth and saying that teachers as a group don't have enough money in their bank accounts to be able to afford hand sanitizer.


I made some reasonable points that
A) Most people buy their own (it isn't luxuriously expensive)
Surely teachers would have saved a bit on expenses when things were locked down


I'm not attacking anyone. Simply making the point that it is not really credulous that there are a lot of teachers out there who can't afford to buy some hand sanitizer. I am sure that there might be one or two but to state that as a group, they cannot afford a few Euros here or there is kind of silly.



My brother in law was put on reduced hours and then PUP last March and was on it for a few months. He has a good job in a construction related company. My sister said at the time that it would be tough but that at least they had much less expenses than normal times. No travel expenses. All the kids activities had been suspended etc. So that is a normal situation where people managed to cope on reduced income. Contrast that with the view that teachers, as a group, who continued to be paid 100%, and would have been able to make the same savings as regards expenses, now don't have a fiver in their bank accounts for a hand sanitiser. Can you not see why the poor-mouth pleadings might be being met with eye-rolling?

Plenty of sub teachers who lost work were also looking for pup... And many had to fight hard to get it.

Telling teachers buy their stuff for work just shows your chip on shoulder. I know of friends in public AND private sector where safety material was provided as a matter of course, like it's a normal thing for an employer to do.

But no, teachers have to stump up because it makes begrudgers feel better.

In the UK the government pays for things, like it's normal. I thought this was a joke from an Irish of a paper until I realised Ireland is a cheapass nation.

History Queen

blanch152 wrote: »

All circulars are agreed through a consultation process with the teacher trade unions at the Teachers Conciliation Council.

Not true.

Sorry posted too soon, circulars can be issued without consultation

machiavellianme

History Queen wrote: »

Do people actually realise that teachers are people too? We're not powered off and kept in a cupboard overnight. We have families, spouses who lost jobs, mortgages to pay, bills etc the same as everyone else.

We are worried sick about how to survive on a single income and then we have to contend with every gob****e with an opinion telling us to suck it up when our employer won't afford us the same basic safety requirements as the rest of society. We have to endure idiots telling us they know our financial situation better than we do. We are expected to take it lying down when it is suggested we provide our own PPE at work (remember we already pay for our own masks and now imbeciles think we should add sanatiser to the list). All along with being told we are crap at our job, we only need to read the next page of the book anyway and that we need a reality check. Not forgetting that we are apparently entitled and need to get our heads out of our arses.

And that's the short version.

I call bull**** on this country and the selfishness of our society.

Many (perhaps most) employees are supplying their own PPE, for a variety of reasons. Teachers have had some made available. Admittedly issues have been identified with some stock and they will surely be replaced. The same might not be said of other employers and what they provide.

However, aren't you conveniently forgetting the "Flat rate expenses" tax credit that teachers are allowed for this very thing? i.e. Supplying your own tools, uniform, stationery etc. as part of the costs incurred in performing duties in line with the role. It's €518 for normal teachers and €608 for principals. That'll buy quite a bit of PPE.

Mrsmum

In fairness, teachers being paid during lockdown were in the same boat as Google employees and so forth being paid to work from home. No big deal there. I personally don't think teaching lends itself to remote learning but it wasn' t their fault back then that the schools were shut.

Dav010

Treppen wrote: »

But no, teachers have to stump up because it makes begrudgers feel better.

No, Treppen, it’s because it make you look precious when you complain about having to spend €1 on a hand sanitizer.

awec

khalessi wrote: »

You do not know anyone's circumstances so quit with making stuff up. It just shows your narrow mindedness that you assume teachers dont have money problems

This is genuinely getting silly now.

Teacher's will get paid their full salary whether schools open or not. Fact.
Teacher's are not going to be losing their jobs. Fact.

So when teachers say "we've the same worries as everyone else", they are talking complete and utter bollocks.

awec

Mrsmum wrote: »

In fairness, teachers being paid during lockdown were in the same boat as Google employees and so forth being paid to work from home. No big deal there. I personally don't think teaching lends itself to remote learning but it wasn' t their fault back then that the schools were shut.

Google employees are not paid by the taxpayer. Google employees are able to actually do their job, in it's entirety, at home.

There is no comparison to be made.

Warbeastrior

Treppen wrote:

But no, teachers have to stump up because it makes begrudgers feel better.

It is pointless trying to get your point across to people that just have a disliking to teachers.
I say unfollow this thread and go about your day.
Leave these begrudgers to their bitter posts.

s1ippy

I don't know how this thread is still even visited by teachers, at the moment it looks like the bold boys corner where everyone who doesn't get enough attention at home kicks off so the teachers will reprimand them.

Dav010

Mrsmum wrote: »

In fairness, teachers being paid during lockdown were in the same boat as Google employees and so forth being paid to work from home. No big deal there. I personally don't think teaching lends itself to remote learning but it wasn' t their fault back then that the schools were shut.

So you want to ignore the hundreds of thousands who don’t work for Google and didn’t get paid when their jobs closed?

Donald Trump

Treppen wrote: »

Plenty of sub teachers who lost work were also looking for pup... And many had to fight hard to get it.

Telling teachers buy their stuff for work just shows your chip on shoulder. I know of friends in public AND private sector where safety material was provided as a matter of course, like it's a normal thing for an employer to do.

But no, teachers have to stump up because it makes begrudgers feel better.

In the UK the government pays for things, like it's normal. I thought this was a joke from an Irish of a paper until I realised Ireland is a cheapass nation.

There is a pattern on here that I notice for these kinds of threads. You say that the other side said something ridiculous and then "disprove it" in order to try to gain internet points.


Nowhere did I state that teachers should buy their own sanitiser for work. They can of course buy their own personal sanitizer (which is what most people do!). The work has to have a few communal ones.



Actually, have another go at reading it

Donald Trump wrote: »

The chain of events was about teachers not being able to afford their own hand sanitizers. I am pointing out that most regular people have their own.


Nobody would suggest that teachers pay to install communal stations but it is not unreasonable for them to have their own. Most people carry their own around anyway. Anywhere I go, I bring my own rather than use a communal one anyway as a lot of the communal ones have manual things you have to press.

Again the context was in response to a union rep statement that teachers as a group do not have enough money in their bank accounts to afford hand sanitizer for themseleves. Try to read it slowly if you are still confused. It is not saying that teachers should pay for hand sanitizer for Beaumont hospital. Nor does it say that they should go to a greenfield site with shovels and build a hospital by hand.





I also didn't quote your big "gotcha" screenshot.....which a quick google search shows is about a teacher in Southhampton. You included it as an example of how great the system in the UK is and how bad the Irish one is? That's kind of silly, no?

khalessi

awec wrote: »

This is genuinely getting silly now.

Teacher's will get paid their full salary whether schools open or not. Fact.
Teacher's are not going to be losing their jobs. Fact.

So when teachers say "we've the same worries as everyone else", they are talking complete and utter bollocks.

Listen your bias is getting silly, you know no ones circumstances on here. Yes people have gone on pup, some are earning more on pup than their wages, so you are talking crap as that has been all over media over last few months. Teachers dont just partner public sector workers, so talk sense instead of spouting anti teacher vindictive rubbish.

Not all teachers on a full wage or full hours so you know nothing awec.

Nice GOT reference there

This virus has affected many people in many ways, people have lost jobs, people have become ill, peole have died, regardless of whether they are public or private, the virus doesnt care but you seem to have a hang up

jmayo

FTA69 wrote: »

Something tells me if bud drivers and supermarket workers went on strike you’d be giving out about that too.

Those people kept going to work during the height of lockdown, they provided a valuable service to others and I would not begrudge them a pay rise.
Teachers and a fair few other public servants sat at home on their ar** on full pay and now some of them are whinging.
It is about time they copped to fook on that they are so fooking privileged.
The vast majority have a guaranteed job, guaranteed pension of some sort.
They never seem to fooking grasp these salient points.

Donald Trump wrote: »

There would be no issue with these new entrants had the existing teachers not been happy to pull the ladder up behind them and shaft newbies in 2010..

Yes have absolutely no sympathy for that shyte.
They saw demanded and got from bertie the shyster bencnhmarking against private sector workers who were benefiting from bubbles, dot com bubble especially.

But a lot of those private sector workers lost jobs when that bubble burst, but did any teachers?
Did any teachers lose their jobs when the construction bubble burst and lots of private sector workers lost their jobs and the rest of us private sector workers lost big chunks of our pensions ?

Then rather than take real pay cuts they did deal where new entrants were screwed so the existing ones were protected.

awec

khalessi wrote: »

Listen your bias is getting silly, you know no ones circumstances on here. Yes people have gone on pup, some are earning more on pup than their wages, so you are talking crap as that has been all over media over last few months. Teachers dont just partner public sector workers, so talk sense instead of spouting anti teacher vindictive rubbish.

Not all teachers on a full wage or full hours so you know nothing awec.

Nice GOT reference there

This virus has affected many people in many ways, people have lost jobs, people have become ill, peole have died, regardless of whether they are public or private, the virus doesnt care but you seem to have a hang up

We know the circumstances of every single public sector teacher in Ireland when it comes to their salary protection and job protection.

"Ah but sure teachers may be married to private sector workers". Do I have to say it again? Heads are very far up arses.

khalessi

awec wrote: »

We know the circumstances of every single public sector teacher in Ireland when it comes to their salary protection and job protection.

"Ah but sure teachers may be married to private sector workers". Do I have to say it again? Heads are very far up arses.

Yes you have your head up your arse but it is ok you anti teacher bias is very much evident

Donald Trump

khalessi wrote: »

Listen your bias is getting silly, you know no ones circumstances on here. Yes people have gone on pup, some are earning more on pup than their wages, so you are talking crap as that has been all over media over last few months. Teachers dont just partner public sector workers, so talk sense instead of spouting anti teacher vindictive rubbish.

Wow. So you begrudge a few low paid workers who might have received 350 quid a week for a few weeks if their normal wages were less than that?


I mean that was stopped a long time back. Unless you refer to those that were previously working for less than the lowest rate of PUP?


So some 17 year old kid who was doing a job and getting paid 150 quid a week is doing well now because they are actually getting 200 a week on the PUP?


Perhaps some of his extra money should be commandeered to help the teachers who only got 100% of their wages during the first lockdown? In the interest of fairness like. So that they can buy a few one Euro bottles of hand sanitizer

khalessi

Donald Trump wrote: »

Wow. So you begrudge a few low paid workers who might have received 350 quid a week for a few weeks if their normal wages were less than that?


I mean that was stopped a long time back. Unless you refer to those that were previously working for less than the lowest rate of PUP?


So some 17 year old kid who was doing a job and getting paid 150 quid a week is doing well now because they are actually getting 200 a week on the PUP?


Perhaps some of his extra money should be commandeered to help the teachers who only got 100% of their wages during the first lockdown? In the interest of fairness like. So that they can buy a few one Euro bottles of hand sanitizer

Ahh Donald No I dont begrudge it never said I did, just stating a fact unlike the anti teacher crap spewed here.

Baggly

awec wrote: »

We know the circumstances of every single public sector teacher in Ireland when it comes to their salary protection and job protection.

"Ah but sure teachers may be married to private sector workers". Do I have to say it again? Heads are very far up arses.

Mod

Pull the hyperbole back please Awec.

Baggly

khalessi wrote: »

Yes you have your head up your arse but it is ok you anti teacher bias is very much evident

Mod

Calm it down as well please.

Mrsmum

Dav010 wrote: »

So you want to ignore the hundreds of thousands who don’t work for Google and didn’t get paid when their jobs closed?

No of course not. It's that teachers were working from home. My kids are in secondary school and I have to say most teachers did as good as I could have expected in the circumstances. My siblings have primary kids and were not at all satisfied. There may be a debate around the workload of teachers but they were supposed to be working from home, that's the point, unlike people whose whole job was finished for the same period.

awec

khalessi wrote: »

Yes you have your head up your arse but it is ok you anti teacher bias is very much evident

I am not anti teacher.

There are hundreds of thousands of workers in Ireland right now who would absolutely love to be in the position that teachers are in. Guaranteed their salary, and absolutely no risk whatsoever of losing their jobs.

People who work in bars, restaurants, cafes, hotels genuinely worried (and with good reason) if they'll have a job next years. People who work in small and medium businesses scraping by, wondering if their business will actually survive at all. Retail workers unsure if they'll have employment. If the money isn't coming in to keep businesse afloat then these people will not have a job when the inevitable happens.

All those people are sitting here reading teachers pontificate about how they have the same worries. Nonsense.

I am very lucky, I didn't suffer any salary cuts during this pandemic. The difference between me and the teachers on this thread, is that I understand how fortunate I am to be in this position, and I am not sitting here trying to suggest that I have the same worries as those who have genuinely struggled this past number of months.

jmayo

Vestiapx wrote: »

Teachers are stuck in a room with a bunch of vectors. Schools should be closed and teachers should be teaching online.
School is not childminding.
The equal pay thing is a bit of an add on but I agree with it in principle.

A lot of them didn't teach online, some gave out online homework and then corrected some of it.
My kids were doing their workbooks and not the online stuff and eventually a teacher contacts us after month and a half.
That shows how on top of stuff they really were.

History Queen wrote: »

Do people actually realise that teachers are people too? We're not powered off and kept in a cupboard overnight. We have families, spouses who lost jobs, mortgages to pay, bills etc the same as everyone else.

You still have a job, you got paid full whack while, lets face it not really working, and you are complaining now that you have to work. :rolleyes:

History Queen wrote: »

We are worried sick about how to survive on a single income and then we have to contend with every gob****e with an opinion telling us to suck it up when our employer won't afford us the same basic safety requirements as the rest of society. We have to endure idiots telling us they know our financial situation better than we do. We are expected to take it lying down when it is suggested we provide our own PPE at work (remember we already pay for our own masks and now imbeciles think we should add sanatiser to the list). All along with being told we are crap at our job, we only need to read the next page of the book anyway and that we need a reality check. Not forgetting that we are apparently entitled and need to get our heads out of our arses.

And that's the short version.

I call bull**** on this country and the selfishness of our society.

Ah let me get a violin. :rolleyes:
You are the only one that is now having to make do on single income, but you have a guaranteed job and you think you should get special treatment?

My other half works in non acute hospital, but one that was receiving patients from acute hospitals when they were trying to make room at beginning of lockdown.
At the start and actually for months they did not have PPE.
They were told they would only get it when in contact with confirmed cases, not even when it was a suspect case.
And she works in area where it not like nurse that is with patient for a few minutes at a time, they do an hour long session in close proximity.

Colleagues of hers got infected and the HSE hid behind GDPR and refused to announce who exactly had it unless their inadequate contact tracing reckoned you were in contact with the positive case.

So please fook off with the poor mouth.

Most of you got to sit at home for months on full salary with very little to show for it.
A lot of home workers had to be on end of phone talking to suppliers and customers, still had to deliver results at end of day, still had to work on projects that had to be delivered, still had to work on services to customers.

But you are special.