ASTI members vote for industrial action over Covid issues

khalessi

khalessi wrote: »

...........This would not be said of healthcare but then healthcare incorporates more men ........

Yes, most nurses are men.

wirelessdude01

Augeo wrote: »

Yes, most nurses are men.

Ohh do please read correctly. The poster said more men.

Bananaleaf

Lillyfae wrote: »

Just wondering though, if not taxes then where would the money come from?

There is nowhere else that I can think of. Unless the system were to go entirely private, which we all agree would be a disaster.

Private company sponsorship would be equally dreadful - imagine the companies getting on board for that one.

That's kind of my point tho. I agree that now is not a good time to strike. But when you're paid by the taxpayer, there is never a good time to go on strike.

blanch152

khalessi wrote: »

I do love the language used to discuss teachers, bitter emotional, panicking. This would not be said of healthcare but then healthcare incorporates more men and also is supposed to be a place of calm in an emergency. There was an interesting article in the Irish Examiner about whether teacher-bashing yet another issue of gender, as generally most of the voices are male.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/people/arid-40072736.html

I think it might have something to do with the fact that the health workers got on with their jobs at considerable risk to their lives when Covid hit at a time when very little was known about the disease and how to prevent its spread. Several of them died as a result.

Teachers, well they hid at home for six months while the health workers were offering up their lives, and then, when the teachers were asked to work, they dreamed up every excuse possible to shirk.

Smacruairi

blanch152 wrote: »

I think it might have something to do with the fact that the health workers got on with their jobs at considerable risk to their lives when Covid hit at a time when very little was known about the disease and how to prevent its spread. Several of them died as a result.

Teachers, well they hid at home for six months while the health workers were offering up their lives, and then, when the teachers were asked to work, they dreamed up every excuse possible to shirk.

I know nurses did so well, why was Leo the Leak so hard in his negotiations with them when they were canvassing for better conditions last year. Wonder what he leaked that time.

wirelessdude01

blanch152 wrote: »

I think it might have something to do with the fact that the health workers got on with their jobs at considerable risk to their lives when Covid hit at a time when very little was known about the disease and how to prevent its spread. Several of them died as a result.

Teachers, well they hid at home for six months while the health workers were offering up their lives, and then, when the teachers were asked to work, they dreamed up every excuse possible to shirk.

Did teachers close the school buildings on March the 12th?

Obviously the teachers need better excuses so seeing as they've been working.

khalessi

Augeo wrote: »

Yes, most nurses are men.

Yes indeed, notice I said healthcare not nurses, as that involves medical side and nurses and nursing assistants, and ward attendants, so yes indeed there are more men in healthcare than in education which I witnessed myself when nursing. Also the strongest of the nursing unions was the PNA, Psychiatric Nurses association which had a higher number of men then women.

Sure read the article and it can be seen in the attitudes here.

Treppen

Lillyfae wrote: »

So what? They haven't been balloted on pay. I still don't think further funding should be going to salaries until every single major or minor shortcoming in any other resource area in education is addressed. And even then probably not. The pay is perfectly adequate for the job.

What's your job and your pay?

Midlife

blanch152 wrote: »

I think it might have something to do with the fact that the health workers got on with their jobs at considerable risk to their lives when Covid hit at a time when very little was known about the disease and how to prevent its spread. Several of them died as a result.

Teachers, well they hid at home for six months while the health workers were offering up their lives, and then, when the teachers were asked to work, they dreamed up every excuse possible to shirk.

Do you need to be so disrespectful.

I mean do you speak to everyone like this or is it just on boards?

I'll happily meet you in person and we can discuss why you think 'I hid at home and have been dreaming up every possible excuse to shirk'.

I mean are you basing this on evidence or do you just hate teachers. Or are you just going out of your way to offend.

Sonics2k

blanch152 wrote: »

I think it might have something to do with the fact that the health workers got on with their jobs at considerable risk to their lives when Covid hit at a time when very little was known about the disease and how to prevent its spread. Several of them died as a result.

Teachers, well they hid at home for six months while the health workers were offering up their lives, and then, when the teachers were asked to work, they dreamed up every excuse possible to shirk.

I mean, I'm not being a smart ass here, but that is kinda what nurses sign up when they become nurses. It's a job that does present certain risks, especially of a medical nature. Yes, imo they do deserve better pay and treatment than they currently get here.

It's like joining the armed services, there's a decent chance you're going to see combat.

In other news, as I mentioned before. My partner works in a Creche, which one of the main rooms just shut down as a child tested positive with Covid and so did one of her colleagues. Herself, two other teachers and 14 children are all getting the covid test done and due the results during the week.

My partner is high risk, but she loves her job and wanted to work. She's not permitted any form of ppe.

Teachers signed up to teach, not put their lives at risk.

Foxtrol

Sonics2k wrote: »

I mean, I'm not being a smart ass here, but that is kinda what nurses sign up when they become nurses. It's a job that does present certain risks, especially of a medical nature. Yes, imo they do deserve better pay and treatment than they currently get here.

It's like joining the armed services, there's a decent chance you're going to see combat.

In other news, as I mentioned before. My partner works in a Creche, which one of the main rooms just shut down as a child tested positive with Covid and so did one of her colleagues. Herself, two other teachers and 14 children are all getting the covid test done and due the results during the week.

My partner is high risk, but she loves her job and wanted to work. She's not permitted any form of ppe.

Teachers signed up to teach, not put their lives at risk.

I simply don't get this logic. You may have a point about the medical fields but every other worker deemed to be in a critical job can make the exact same argument about putting their lives at risk - be it those that work in super markets, public transport drivers, gardai etc.

There is however only one group that is trying to leverage the crisis and hold the country to ransom to resolve long term pay complaints (which their union signed up to). It isn't a good look and I'm not surprised they have annoyed a lot of people.

Sonics2k

Foxtrol wrote: »

I simply don't get this logic. You may have a point about the medical fields but every other worker deemed to be in a critical job can make the exact same argument about putting their lives at risk - be it those that work in super markets, public transport drivers, gardai etc.

There is however only one group that is trying to leverage the crisis and hold the country to ransom to resolve long term pay complaints (which their union signed up to). It isn't a good look and I'm not surprised they have annoyed a lot of people.

Well I work as a courier, so I'm considered front line and essential.

Myself, retail workers and public transport have some key differences. We rarely come into like, direct contact with people. In retail they get the massive plastic barriers, public transport drivers are by and large separated from the passengers and always have been, and as a courier I rarely actually make direct contact with customers. In the depot we all get to wear PPE.

Infections are on the increase in schools, there's little enforcement of mask policies and from dropping off a lot of stuff to schools for work I'm seeing a crap tonne of kids going around without masks.

Foxtrol

Sonics2k wrote: »

Well I work as a courier, so I'm considered front line and essential.

Myself, retail workers and public transport have some key differences. We rarely come into like, direct contact with people. In retail they get the massive plastic barriers, public transport drivers are by and large separated from the passengers and always have been, and as a courier I rarely actually make direct contact with customers. In the depot we all get to wear PPE.

Infections are on the increase in schools, there's little enforcement of mask policies and from dropping off a lot of stuff to schools for work I'm seeing a crap tonne of kids going around without masks.

And none of that explains why teachers voted to strike in the middle of a pandemic regarding a previous agreement they made regarding pay differences.

khalessi

Foxtrol wrote: »

And none of that explains why teachers voted to strike in the middle of a pandemic regarding a previous agreement they made regarding pay differences.

Maybe have a look at the ballot it might give a clue, you covered pay now look at rest.

Dav010

khalessi wrote: »

Maybe have a look at the ballot it might give a clue, you covered pay now look at rest.

You can’t ask the public to ignore the vote regarding pay.

khalessi

Dav010 wrote: »

You can’t ask the public to ignore the vote regarding pay.

Nope but the public have ignored everything else on the list

Dav010

khalessi wrote: »

Nope but the public have ignored everything else on the list

And you didn’t consider that when you saw the ballot?

History Queen

khalessi wrote: »

Nope but the public have ignored everything else on the list

I really wish the ASTI hadn't put the pay issue on the ballot, it has weakened their position and increased the vitriol directed at teachers. The main issues are being ignored and they are important.

Foxtrol

khalessi wrote: »

Nope but the public have ignored everything else on the list

But they voted to strike regarding pay even if the other COVID related elements weren't passed.

The blame for the bad PR is on the idiotic union not reading the room and leaving that element off. Even then going 'nuclear' with a strike action would have been a stretch but at least they might have gotten some support. The teachers unions time and again show how out of touch they are

khalessi

Dav010 wrote: »

And you didn’t consider that when you saw the ballot?

Dear Dav10,

I am not ASTI, thou doth forget there are three unions.

love n kisses

Khalessi

Foxtrol

History Queen wrote: »

I really wish the ASTI hadn't put the pay issue on the ballot, it has weakened their position and increased the vitriol directed at teachers. The main issues are being ignored and they are important.

The Teacher unions have done nothing but hurt their position from day 1. During the summer every spokesperson I heard was talking about teachers not going back until it was practically risk free, which isn't the case for anyone working.

Then the choice to go 'nuclear' with strike action rather than trying to work in the system and highlight cases does nothing for everyone else who goes out and works with their employer in a less combative manner.

Dav010

khalessi wrote: »

Dear Dav10,

I am not ASTI, thou doth forget there are three unions.

love n kisses

Khalessi

Dear Khalessi.

You, plural rather than singular.

No kisses please, it just gets awkward with the mask.

Davo

lulublue22

Dav010 wrote: »

Dear Khalessi.

You, plural rather than singular.

No kisses please, it just gets awkward with the mask.

Davo

you seem obsessed with the you plural - as a member of a different teachers union I have zero input into the ASTI ballot - Zero. I didn’t even know what was on it until it was published for general consumption. There is no you plural unless you are a member of the ASTI .

khalessi

Foxtrol wrote: »

The Teacher unions have done nothing but hurt their position from day 1. During the summer every spokesperson I heard was talking about teachers not going back until it was practically risk free, which isn't the case for anyone working.

Then the choice to go 'nuclear' with strike action rather than trying to work in the system and highlight cases does nothing for everyone else who goes out and works with their employer in a less combative manner.

I might correct you there a bit. Since the summer the teachers were told we would have guidelines. Having dealt with the Department we knew this would not happen. We asked for what was provided in other sectors, masks, cleaning products, social distancing as per other sectors and maybe half in half out. Denmark was mentioned a lot, as an example.

Well the Dept didnt let us down, they did as expected and did nto provide until 3 weeks before reopening and then made a big deal of 1080 staff of which was 1 per secondary school and all the subs for primary, we have 4 subs between 16 schools with an average staff of 50+.

They also sent plans with no social distancing. 1 metre and in some cases 40cm between kids


The public did what they normally do and said and still say teachers are complaining. They do not trust professional judgement. We know how quick viruses and headlice spread in schools and everyone mocked as per usual.

The nurses pointed out the inadequacies of their ppe and no one said they were complaining and it still took the guts of a month to get proper ppe.

John Boyle INTO was invisible and then appeared showing a lovely sd classroom. MM picked a small school of around 100 pupils to show the lovely sd.

The schools reopened and teachers pointed out that there was something wrong with how they were choosing close contacts and they were mocked. Turns out they were right, the public health are being very conservative on who they choose as a close contact, while the HSE it seems only count index cases. Regardless of how a case gets in the school it will spread, school near me had 19 cases so far.

The ASTI were wrong to put pay on ballot but guaranteed going by the previous 16 minimum threads since March, the public on here would have had a problem anyway adn this thread would be on something else on the list and how teachers complain.

I have worked for years as a nurse and feel safer in a hospital than a school as the hospital has my back every time re safety. It is sad to see school smocked and they were mocked before this vote so dont dare blame this ballot, when all the majority of teachers want is a reasonably safte place to teach, safe for your kids and safe for staff.

Bananaleaf

A lot of people on here saying that healthcare workers are not asking for any more money. They are asking for more money. It's just that nobody seems to know (or care) about it because they're not threatening to strike. Maybe they should. Maybe folk would listen to them then.

According to the Irish Examiner article that I read, there are some student nurses working in hospitals on an allowance of €50.79 per week. That is shocking. And to be honest, the fact that society applauds them for putting up with that is a bit shocking too. We should want better conditions for our young nurses. And for our young teachers too. A student teacher is on a weekly allowance of zero euros. Zero.

Dav010

lulublue22 wrote: »

you seem obsessed with the you plural - as a member of a different teachers union I have zero input into the ASTI ballot - Zero. I didn’t even know what was on it until it was published for general consumption. There is no you plural unless you are a member of the ASTI .

This thread is so long, it’s hard to keep track of who is in each Union, and to be honest it doesn’t matter. Many teachers on here irrespective of Union affiliation seem to support the ASTI ballot, so using the plural “you” is just the simplest way of referring to those who support the ASTI ballot result.

I wouldn’t consider clarifying a response when requested an “obsession”.

khalessi

Dav010 wrote: »

Dear Khalessi.

You, plural rather than singular.

No kisses please, it just gets awkward with the mask.

Davo

It's ok I put the lipstick on the outside, can't let standards slip

lulublue22

Dav010 wrote: »

This thread is so long, it’s hard to keep track of who is in each Union, and to be honest it doesn’t matter. Many teachers on here irrespective of Union affiliation seem to support the ASTI ballot, so using the plural “you” is just the simplest way of referring to those who support the ASTI ballot result.

I wouldn’t consider clarifying a response when requested an “obsession”.

Fair enough re difficult to keep straight who’s in each union - but any post I have seen you reply to with the you plural has been in relation to the ballot and what do you expect if you voted this way type post- just pointing out many of us had no input into the ballot at all - we are just interested in discussing the ballot in relation to covid issues so the you plural makes little sense.

Foxtrol

khalessi wrote: »

I might correct you there a bit. Since the summer the teachers were told we would have guidelines. Having dealt with the Department we knew this would not happen. We asked for what was provided in other sectors, masks, cleaning products, social distancing as per other sectors and maybe half in half out. Denmark was mentioned a lot, as an example.

Well the Dept didnt let us down, they did as expected and did nto provide until 3 weeks before reopening and then made a big deal of 1080 staff of which was 1 per secondary school and all the subs for primary, we have 4 subs between 16 schools with an average staff of 50+.

They also sent plans with no social distancing. 1 metre and in some cases 40cm between kids


The public did what they normally do and said and still say teachers are complaining. They do not trust professional judgement. We know how quick viruses and headlice spread in schools and everyone mocked as per usual.

The nurses pointed out the inadequacies of their ppe and no one said they were complaining and it still took the guts of a month to get proper ppe.

John Boyle INTO was invisible and then appeared showing a lovely sd classroom. MM picked a small school of around 100 pupils to show the lovely sd.

The schools reopened and teachers pointed out that there was something wrong with how they were choosing close contacts and they were mocked. Turns out they were right, the public health are being very conservative on who they choose as a close contact, while the HSE it seems only count index cases. Regardless of how a case gets in the school it will spread, school near me had 19 cases so far.

The ASTI were wrong to put pay on ballot but guaranteed going by the previous 16 minimum threads since March, the public on here would have had a problem anyway adn this thread would be on something else on the list and how teachers complain.

I have worked for years as a nurse and feel safer in a hospital than a school as the hospital has my back every time re safety. It is sad to see school smocked and they were mocked before this vote so dont dare blame this ballot, when all the majority of teachers want is a reasonably safte place to teach, safe for your kids and safe for staff.

This is the mindset that causes teachers to regularly be on the wrong side of public opinion. Rather than reflect why that is and adjust their approach they just do the same thing again and again and expect different results. It is the type of thing they’d pull their hair out if kids in their class did it. ‘My approach couldn’t be wrong, it is everyone else that is the problem’.

khalessi

Foxtrol wrote: »

This is the mindset that causes teachers to regularly be on the wrong side of public opinion. Rather than reflect why that is and adjust their approach they just do the same thing again and again and expect different results. It is the type of thing they’d pull their hair out if kids in their class did it. ‘My approach couldn’t be wrong, it is everyone else that is the problem’.

This isn't a mindset, it is an explanation of a little of what was going on.
It is interesting that the only explanation acceptable is by those not working in education.