ASTI members vote for industrial action over Covid issues

Dav010

lulublue22 wrote: »

Fair enough re difficult to keep straight who’s in each union - but any post I have seen you reply to with the you plural has been in relation to the ballot and what do you expect if you voted this way type post- just pointing out many of us had no input into the ballot at all - we are just interested in discussing the ballot in relation to covid issues so the you plural makes little sense.

I know you would like to discuss the ballot in relation to Covid, it would be a lot easier and less contentious. Unfortunately for those in the ASTI, and other unions who support their colleagues stance on the items voted on, the pay rise item is an integral part of the narrative.

I’m not sure I can make that any clearer, certainly it makes for less typing, and reading, to shorten the text by using a single word rather than the longer description. But hey ho, if that’s what you want to focus on, I’m happy to go the extra mile just for you.

Foxtrol

Bananaleaf wrote: »

A lot of people on here saying that healthcare workers are not asking for any more money. They are asking for more money. It's just that nobody seems to know (or care) about it because they're not threatening to strike. Maybe they should. Maybe folk would listen to them then.

According to the Irish Examiner article that I read, there are some student nurses working in hospitals on an allowance of €50.79 per week. That is shocking. And to be honest, the fact that society applauds them for putting up with that is a bit shocking too. We should want better conditions for our young nurses. And for our young teachers too. A student teacher is on a weekly allowance of zero euros. Zero.

And many college interns in the private sector get zero euros also.

Maybe everyone should strike unless they get all the money they believe they deserve and can limit risk to zero...

History Queen

I asked earlier but I think it got lost in the muddle that this thread has become, has there been any update by ASTI to it's members on talks with the government or any movement on the covid issues? I saw and posted the "clarification" of what close contacts in school constitute, but on the other issues has there been any movement?

khalessi

Foxtrol wrote: »

And many college interns in the private sector get zero euros also.

Maybe everyone should strike unless they get all the money they believe they deserve and can limit risk to zero...

Teachers never asked for zero risk, even in a hospital at the best of times you can't get zero risk as somebody wil get a needlestick or somesuch.

lulublue22

Dav010 wrote: »

I know you would like to discuss the ballot in relation to Covid, it would be a lot easier and less contentious. Unfortunately for those in the ASTI, and other unions who support their colleagues stance on the items voted on, the pay rise item is an integral part of the narrative.

I’m not sure I can make that any clearer, certainly it makes for less typing, and reading, to shorten the text by using a single word rather than the longer description. But hey ho, if that’s what you want to focus on, I’m happy to go the extra mile just for you.

You’re a star much appreciated the plural you was doing my head in

ETA re discussing covid issues on the ballot - from my perspective by far more interesting and relevant rather than easier or less contentious.

Treppen

Foxtrol wrote: »

And many college interns in the private sector get zero euros also.

Maybe everyone should strike unless they get all the money they believe they deserve and can limit risk to zero...

Hold on, your avocations everyone should strike... except teachers?

History Queen

Foxtrol wrote: »

And many college interns in the private sector get zero euros also.

Maybe everyone should strike unless they get all the money they believe they deserve and can limit risk to zero...

Do you realise there is no strike organised? Do you understand the issues?

Foxtrol

khalessi wrote: »

This isn't a mindset, it is an explanation of a little of what was going on.
It is interesting that the only explanation acceptable is by those not working in education.

What you said here is a mindset and it stinks. It comes through a lot of posts from teachers (or their supporters).

khalessi wrote: »

The public did what they normally do and said and still say teachers are complaining.

khalessi

Foxtrol wrote: »

What you said here is a mindset and it stinks. It comes through a lot of posts from teachers (or their supporters).

What I said is experience of 16 threads at least since March, and of the first page here where people happily refer to teachers as cnuts and bastar*s knowing they can get away with it. I pointed this out and was basically told it is a joke get over it.

I spent 20 years as nurse and saw this then so it isnt a mindset. You dont seem to have the same objections to people referring to teachers as cnuts and bastar*ds. Not one peron corrected them and said it was too much, even the mods were happy to let it go.

Lillyfae

khalessi wrote: »

What I said is experience of 16 threads at least since March, and of the first page here where people happily refer to teachers as cnuts and bastar*s knowing they can get away with it. I pointed this out and was basically told it is a joke get over it.

I spent 20 years as nurse and saw this then so it isnt a mindset. You dont seem to have the same objections to people referring to teachers as cnuts and bastar*ds. Not one peron corrected them and said it was too much, even the mods were happy to let it go.

You raise this far more than it actually happens. I’ve never called anyone a c*nt or a b*stard, I was carded for laughing at your comparison between AIDs in Dublin in the 80s and Covid in schools now. But plenty of teachers (by their own admission), are all over every thread every day attacking everyone around them and pulling things off topic with inane, repetitive remarks and aggressive language. No repercussions.

I don’t have a problem with teachers, but I do have a problem with the ASTI proposed strike action, no doubt voted for by the type of people who would also engage in the above behaviour and see nothing wrong with it. Bit of self reflection would be advisable.

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

You raise this far more than it actually happens. I’ve never called anyone a c*nt or a b*stard, I was carded for laughing at your comparison between AIDs in Dublin in the 80s and Covid in schools now. But plenty of teachers (by their own admission), are all over every thread every day attacking everyone around them and pulling things off topic with inane, repetitive remarks and aggressive language. No repercussions.

I don’t have a problem with teachers, but I do have a problem with the ASTI proposed strike action, no doubt voted for by the type of people who would also engage in the above behaviour and see nothing wrong with it. Bit of self reflection would be advisable.

You were carded becuase it was a nasty snide comment and if you have an issue take it up with the mods.

Dav010

lulublue22 wrote: »

You’re a star much appreciated the plural you was doing my head in

ETA re discussing covid issues on the ballot - from my perspective by far more interesting and relevant rather than easier or less contentious.

ETA?

It is interesting and relevant, but, the narrative on pay increase is intertwined, and inseparable because it forms a significant part of the ballot passed. As others have said, we are all having to live and work with Covid, but teachers are the only ones to date who have voted for strike action if issues on pay and conditions are not met. Had pay been left off the ballot, the public might still be critical of teachers for disrupting their kids education and causing further hardship and stress to parents having to take time off work to mind kids, but add a pay rise to the mix, that has caused real anger.

The ASTI should have known that this would have been seen as opportunistic and selfish at a time when there is a real effort to foster social solidarity. In this together and all that.

Wanderer78

Dav010 wrote:

The ASTI should have known that this would have been seen as opportunistic and selfish at a time when there is a real effort to foster social solidarity.

How are they being selfish?

Lillyfae

khalessi wrote: »

You were carded becuase it was a nasty snide comment and if you have an issue take it up with the mods.

But people aren’t carded for calling people c*nts or b*stards? Really??

Dav010

Wanderer78 wrote: »

How are they being selfish?

I said “seen” as selfish. Asking for a pay increase at a time like this and threatening strike action if they don’t get it.

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

But people aren’t carded for calling people c*nts or b*stards? Really??

Take it up with the mods if you have an issue

lulublue22

Dav010 wrote: »

ETA?

It is interesting and relevant, but, the narrative on pay increase is intertwined, and inseparable because it forms a significant part of the ballot passed. As others have said, we are all having to live and work with Covid, but teachers are the only ones to date who have voted for strike action if issues on pay and conditions are not met. Had pay been left off the ballot, the public might still be critical of teachers for disrupting their kids education and causing further hardship and stress to parents having to take time off work to mind kids, but add a pay rise to the mix, that has caused real anger.

The ASTI should have known that this would have been seen as opportunistic and selfish at a time when there is a real effort to foster social solidarity. In this together and all that.

ETA - edited to add.

We can argue back and forth re pay issue till the cows come home. Should it shouldn’t it be on the ballot - I can understand why it is as there are a cohort of members adversely affected by the pay issue unions are there to represent their members concerns.

I worked in the private sector for 12 years before I retrained as a teacher. In my experience since I have been teaching is that there is never ever ever a good time to mention pay and or work conditions ever. The minute any issue is raised be it pay or otherwise the response centres around should be lucky to have a job , paid too much as is and or lazy teachers who wouldn’t be tolerated in the private sector. Now I must have been a total outlier as I worked with some lazy people in the private sector who surprise surprise never got fired.
In my opinion seeking public support / approval is akin to narnia it’s never going to happen. There will never be a right time. What will the public do - hate on teachers more ? I was at a wedding about 6 years ago - it came up in conversation re work that I was a teacher cue this total randomer at our giving it goodo re lazy teachers being overpaid for half days - followed by work anecdotes which clearly indicated he personally did very little work . The disconnect was mind boggling. At some point teachers will have enough and will act with or without public support. Is this the time ? possibly / possibly not

Bananaleaf

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1102/1175568-doctors-ballot-action/

Will be interesting to see how this is received in comparison

Dav010

lulublue22 wrote: »

The disconnect was mind boggling. At some point teachers will have enough and will act with or without public support. Is this the time ? possibly / possibly not

Generally I would agree with you, I would not say teachers are overpaid, nor indeed lazy. I do think that teachers have benefits not standard in the private sector, which should be appreciated.

But, if teachers don’t know by now that this was not the time to threaten strike action, the disconnect is still mind boggling.

wirelessdude01

lulublue22 wrote: »

ETA - edited to add.

We can argue back and forth re pay issue till the cows come home. Should it shouldn’t it be on the ballot - I can understand why it is as there are a cohort of members adversely affected by the pay issue unions are there to represent their members concerns.

I worked in the private sector for 12 years before I retrained as a teacher. In my experience since I have been teaching is that there is never ever ever a good time to mention pay and or work conditions ever. The minute any issue is raised be it pay or otherwise the response centres around should be lucky to have a job , paid too much as is and or lazy teachers who wouldn’t be tolerated in the private sector. Now I must have been a total outlier as I worked with some lazy people in the private sector who surprise surprise never got fired.
In my opinion seeking public support / approval is akin to narnia it’s never going to happen. There will never be a right time. What will the public do - hate on teachers more ? I was at a wedding about 6 years ago - it came up in conversation re work that I was a teacher cue this total randomer at our giving it goodo re lazy teachers being overpaid for half days - followed by work anecdotes which clearly indicated he personally did very little work . The disconnect was mind boggling. At some point teachers will have enough and will act with or without public support. Is this the time ? possibly / possibly not

10 years here in a huge multinational. Also lots of lazy yokes there. The usual retort to not doing stuff was it isn't listed in my contract. People seem to think they can comment on teachers for two reasons.

1. They are an expert because they sat in a classroom
2. Some of them pay tax so they think they can say whatever they want as they "pay" our wages.

Interestingly, one of the loudest voices on various teacher threads doesn't pay any tax that would be paying our wages.

wirelessdude01

Bananaleaf wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1102/1175568-doctors-ballot-action/

Will be interesting to see how this is received in comparison

One thing for certain is that there wouldn’t be numerous threads on boards lambasting them.

Treppen

Bananaleaf wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1102/1175568-doctors-ballot-action/

Will be interesting to see how this is received in comparison

Ya shur they're only looking for between €30,000 - €60000 pay rise... Now back to teacher bashing.

Dav010

Treppen wrote: »

Ya shur they're only looking for between €30,000 - €60000 pay rise... Now back to teacher bashing.

They, no doubt, will also get a bashing if their actions affect patient health during a pandemic. There are plenty of threads on boards bashing consultants.

Bananaleaf

Dav010 wrote: »

They, no doubt, will also get a bashing if their actions affect patient health during a pandemic. There are plenty of threads on boards bashing consultants.

If? Pretty sure the ASTI's proposed strike is yet to actually affect anyone.

Baggly

Lillyfae wrote: »

You raise this far more than it actually happens. I’ve never called anyone a c*nt or a b*stard, I was carded for laughing at your comparison between AIDs in Dublin in the 80s and Covid in schools now. But plenty of teachers (by their own admission), are all over every thread every day attacking everyone around them and pulling things off topic with inane, repetitive remarks and aggressive language. No repercussions.

I don’t have a problem with teachers, but I do have a problem with the ASTI proposed strike action, no doubt voted for by the type of people who would also engage in the above behaviour and see nothing wrong with it. Bit of self reflection would be advisable.

khalessi wrote: »

You were carded becuase it was a nasty snide comment and if you have an issue take it up with the mods.

Mod

Both of you take a week off from this thread.

Lillyfae; if i see you picking at this poster again, it will be a harsher sanction.

Khaleesi, please report issues, dont respond on thread with an accusation about them.

blanch152

Sonics2k wrote: »

I mean, I'm not being a smart ass here, but that is kinda what nurses sign up when they become nurses. It's a job that does present certain risks, especially of a medical nature. Yes, imo they do deserve better pay and treatment than they currently get here.

It's like joining the armed services, there's a decent chance you're going to see combat.

In other news, as I mentioned before. My partner works in a Creche, which one of the main rooms just shut down as a child tested positive with Covid and so did one of her colleagues. Herself, two other teachers and 14 children are all getting the covid test done and due the results during the week.

My partner is high risk, but she loves her job and wanted to work. She's not permitted any form of ppe.

Teachers signed up to teach, not put their lives at risk.

Bus drivers signed up to drive buses, not put their lives at risk.
Creche workers signed up to mind children, not put their lives at risk.
Retail workers signed up to low-paid jobs in shops, not put their lives at risk.
Nurses signed up to mind patients, not put their lives at risk.

It is only teachers (and by teachers, I mean their unions and a few on here, not all teachers) who are making a song and dance about risk.

The ballot to ask for N95 masks was an example of the completely over-the-top reaction.

wirelessdude01

blanch152 wrote: »

The ballot to ask for N95 masks was an example of the completely over-the-top reaction.

Care to put on the boards record the result of the above?

Dav010

Bananaleaf wrote: »

If? Pretty sure the ASTI's proposed strike is yet to actually affect anyone.

That should concern teachers. What is the public’s reaction likely be if a strike does affect people? Also, the mere fact that ASTI voted in favour of strike action is enough for the public to form an opinion.

History Queen

Dav010 wrote: »

That should concern teachers. What is the public’s reaction likely be if a strike does affect people? Also, the mere fact that ASTI voted in favour of strike action is enough for the public to form an opinion.

They voted for industrial action up to and including strike...may never get there. The purpose of these types of ballots is primarily to make the government sit up and listen and to have a suite of actions to fall back on if they don't.

On a side note, a strike (in any sector) that doesn't affect people won't be effective

wirelessdude01

History Queen wrote: »

On a side note, a strike (in any sector) that doesn't affect people won't be effective

I've yet to see a strike in any sector be effective if it doesn't impact on people in some way.