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ASTI members vote for industrial action over Covid issues

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    #152
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    The Belly wrote: »
    well stay curious

    Do you run a business that requires you to stand in a room with 30+ people for 40 mins at a time?

    You claimed you worked in similar circumstances to teachers earlier so either you as an employer don’t adhere to advice or you where spouting nonsense to progress your argument.


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    #153
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    enricoh wrote: »
    Bring back bertie and the benchmarking atm bonanza, it'll bankrupt the country but it's great for buying votes in elections!

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/news/gap-between-public-and-private-sector-pay-narrowing-report-38695533.html
    the latest earnings data from the CSO shows that public servants earn 38pc more than private sector workers.

    Yawn. Just cause you failed the exam.- don't take it out on us


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    #154
    The Belly
    Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    thomas 123 wrote: »
    Do you run a business that requires you to stand in a room with 30+ people for 40 mins at a time?

    You claimed you worked in similar circumstances to teachers earlier so either you as an employer don’t adhere to advice or you where spouting nonsense to progress your argument.

    No, I didn't claim that at all. You think what you think your mind is made up.


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    #155
    Iscreamkone
    Registered Users Posts: 916 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    The government should call a state of emergency and prevent public employees from striking. Anyone who strikes should then be sacked.
    In the style of Ronald Reagan and the air traffic controllers.


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    #156
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    The Belly wrote: »
    No, I didn't claim that at all. You think what you think your mind is made up.

    It’s here in the thread, read back over what you said.

    You said you expect them to get on with it and that you worked in similar conditions and that you had to get on with it.


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    #157
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,311 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What nurses and doctors have had to put themselves through since March, not one whine to be heard. A few weeks in and the teachers are getting themselves in an awful tizzy. The entitlement complex knows no bounds, to demand a pay increase when hundreds of thousands are forced out of employment is tactless in the extreme.


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    #158
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    What nurses and doctors have had to put themselves through since March, not one whine to be heard. A few weeks in and the teachers are getting themselves in an awful tizzy. The entitlement complex knows no bounds, to demand a pay increase when hundreds of thousands are forced out of employment is tactless in the extreme.

    Deluded doesn’t even come close to describing the Union and its membership.


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    #159
    The Belly
    Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    thomas 123 wrote: »
    It’s here in the thread, read back over what you said.

    You said you expect them to get on with it and that you worked in similar conditions and that you had to get on with it.

    What I expect is that unions don't take advantage and threaten strike for more money.


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    #160
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    The Belly wrote: »
    And that I have no issues with but sneaking in the pay increase is a bit rich. It's not the time for it.
    Pay equality dip stick. Most of the teachers voting for that
    Wont benefit at all.
    Anyway no point arguing here. I know some people think they are a big deal on the internet but in the real world nobody gives a flying **** about boards.ie
    And anybody knows anything about trade union disputes knows it's pissing off the public not pleasing them that wins but this time I think lots of sympathy about suppression of data from schools and the bull**** definition of a close contact that changes once you step in a school ground.
    Night night


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    #161
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    The Belly wrote: »
    What I expect is that unions don't take advantage and threaten strike for more money.

    I did not mention the money once - you and I specifically discussed the health concerns.


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    #162
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    What nurses and doctors have had to put themselves through since March, not one whine to be heard. A few weeks in and the teachers are getting themselves in an awful tizzy. The entitlement complex knows no bounds, to demand a pay increase when hundreds of thousands are forced out of employment is tactless in the extreme.

    You know that nurses unions and junior doctors both threatened industrial action in the past few years right?


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    #163
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    The Belly wrote: »
    What I expect is that unions don't take advantage and threaten strike for more money.

    For the record I disagree with that also - maybe they don’t want it off the radar.


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    #164
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    The Belly wrote: »
    What I expect is that unions don't take advantage and threaten strike for more money.

    Scummy behaviour.


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    #165
    The Belly
    Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    thomas 123 wrote: »
    For the record I disagree with that also - maybe they don’t want it off the radar.

    yes but like everything a time and a place we can agree to disagree on some points.


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    #166
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What nurses and doctors have had to put themselves through since March, not one whine to be heard. A few weeks in and the teachers are getting themselves in an awful tizzy. The entitlement complex knows no bounds, to demand a pay increase when hundreds of thousands are forced out of employment is tactless in the extreme.
    If you got your head out of your hole you'd know they did a lot of whinging about getting proper PPE. They also objected strongly to be called front line as it had connotations of soldiers sacrificing themselves. The HSE never asked nurses to turn off their covid tracker. They have told teachers to do so.


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    #167
    noodler
    Registered Users Posts: 26,409 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    What nurses and doctors have had to put themselves through since March, not one whine to be heard. A few weeks in and the teachers are getting themselves in an awful tizzy. The entitlement complex knows no bounds, to demand a pay increase when hundreds of thousands are forced out of employment is tactless in the extreme.


    Someone working at a till has to sit there for hours with hundreds of people coming in and out with no clue as to their covid status.

    It's fairly clear why the whole class and teacher isn't counted as a close contact - it's to keep the show on the road and potentially stop entire schools closing if one or two students get it (unavoidable we all agree).

    What they are asking for in my view is essentially to close the schools when all available evidence shows the school transmission is low.

    They've 6/7 weeks before Christmas break, we are on lockdown so transmission is reducing further, if the country can't deal with any risk then we will be in even worse dire straits soon enough.


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    #168
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    The Belly wrote: »
    yes but like everything a time and a place we can agree to disagree on some points.

    No no - I agree the pay is bad timing,

    I don’t agree that they should get on with awful conditions in schools riddled with a virus and the HSE actively making up rules(close contact definition / not informing schools etc) to massage figures.


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    #169
    Eleven Benevolent Elephants
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭Eleven Benevolent Elephants


    If a two tier Payscale is legal why not a two union scale?

    IE, new entrants will be banned from striking like Gardaí and army.

    Pay capped at €45,000.

    Pay increase contingent on performance (like the rest of us).

    Pension funds at the mercy of the economy (like the rest of us).

    Mandatory exam correction and administration work in the summer.

    4 weeks annual leave like the rest of us.


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    #170
    Newbie20
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭Newbie20


    Tomtom3105 wrote: »
    Newbie20 wrote: »
    I don’t think I’ve seen as many false claims in one post before. “Missed the crucial revision term”. What in Gods name are you

    The last term before the leaving cert in June,schools.closed in march at the start of the last term of the school year which is used for revision, you could have worked that out though but I'm guessing that's your main point of arguement to get into this with me.

    Did the teachers decide to close the schools? No
    Did the teachers continue to teach the Leaving Certs online? Yes
    When did the teachers stop teaching Leaving Certs? When the government cancelled the Leaving.

    There’s a couple of facts that might make your post less full of rubbish.


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    #171
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »
    If a two tier Payscale is legal why not a two union scale?

    IE, new entrants will be banned from joining a union.

    Pay capped at €45,000.

    Mandatory exam correction and administration work in the summer.

    4 weeks annual leave like the rest of us.

    What do you hope to achieve by the above? But to answer your first question(which then invalidates everything else) Employees have a right set down in the Constitution to join a trade union


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    #172
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    noodler wrote: »
    Someone working at a till has to sit there for hours with hundreds of people coming in and out with no clue as to their covid status.

    It's fairly clear why the whole class and teacher isn't counted as a close contact - it's to keep the show on the road and potentially stop entire schools closing if one or two students get it (unavoidable we all agree).

    What they are asking for in my view is essentially to close the schools when all available evidence shows the school transmission is low.

    They've 6/7 weeks before Christmas break, we are on lockdown so transmission is reducing further, if the country can't deal with any risk then we will be in even worse dire straits soon enough.

    We have done a terrible job if you think the intention is to close schools. Teaching a pupil for 40 minutes to an hour is radically different to a shopper who is probably less than 5 minutes plus the shop assistant is behind a screen.. probably


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    #173
    Tomtom3105
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭Tomtom3105


    Newbie20 wrote: »
    Tomtom3105 wrote: »

    Did the teachers decide to close the schools? No
    Did the teachers continue to teach the Leaving Certs online? Yes
    When did the teachers stop teaching Leaving Certs? When the government cancelled the Leaving.

    There’s a couple of facts that might make your post less

    Why wouldnt they teach them when they were still getting their full wages?


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    #174
    Eleven Benevolent Elephants
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭Eleven Benevolent Elephants


    History Queen wrote: »
    What do you hope to achieve by the above?

    Making workshy teachers come down to reality.


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    #175
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    History Queen wrote: »
    What do you hope to achieve by the above?

    He wants revenge for the way his life turned out and a teacher rightly calling him a moron


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    #176
    Iscreamkone
    Registered Users Posts: 916 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    Yawn. Just cause you failed the exam.- don't take it out on us

    Hello - we pay your wages - do your job or we may decide not to pay you anymore


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    #177
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Equal pay is a covid issue?


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    #178
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »
    Making workshy teachers come down to reality.

    Were you not afforded the opportunity to become a teacher?

    We all make choices.


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    #179
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »
    Making workshy teachers come down to reality.

    So you want to do something unconstitutional because you don't like teachers. Right.


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    #180
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Iscreamkone wrote: »
    Hello - we pay your wages - do your job or we may decide not to pay you anymore

    How do you personally propose to follow through on your threat?


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    #181
    Newbie20
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭Newbie20


    As a teacher, I feel that it was a big mistake to put the equal pay argument in with the covid issues. This of course is now everybody’s focus and gives the usual bashers all the ammunition they need.

    The other issues re covid are valid but will be overlooked now. I would fully expect the ASTI to battle with the government for these to be sorted, in particular the joke of the situation regarding definition of a close contact in school. But I don’t want to strike, I really hope they don’t make that call. It’s not the time.


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