ASTI members vote for industrial action over Covid issues

Snotty

History Queen wrote: »

Well it'd stop untested cases remaining in the school community and spreading the viris further.... that's safer in my book

Again cherry picking the scenario but the results would be the same.

It's been documented that school transmission is only 3%, and I think this is bore out with anecdotal evidence in my small community, I won't mention that it was the GAA playing teacher who actually brought the virus in to our school. I don't really see how this is large enough to warrant the extra strain it would put on the system.

alroley

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

Ah now I see the covid contact problem is that the teachers themselves are not being considered close contacts therefore they are not getting the two weeks off with pay when a student tests positive, is that the 'tracking ' issue they want 'redefined'?

This is actually disgusting. Imagine saying that about any other profession.

But don't you worry! Two children I teach tested positive(one of them sits right beside the whiteboard) and I was told no need to restrict my movements and carry on as normal Luckily I live with three other teachers (who are as disposable lol - just replace us with untrained people who won't ask for a safe work place) and not my elderly parents.

Gotta achieve that herd immunity through children and teachers!!

blanch152

Newbie20 wrote: »

Could you not just look it up yourself rather than reading all the rabble? Teachers have made it very clear that they want schools to stay open. They want the definition of a close contact in schools to change (basically to be in line with what a close contact is in any other walk of life) and they want faster test turnaround times. Not big requests at all really.

Unfortunately for teachers, the statistics do not back up their request.

As long as the positivity rates in schools remain below the positivity rates in the general population, there is no evidence that we are under-testing in schools or failing to detect cases.

This has been explained many times on these fora.

Newbie20

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

No, you were misrepresenting the reasons for striking.

You were too lazy to read the previous couple of pages and went on a moan then. No surprise there.

blanch152

alroley wrote: »

This is actually disgusting. Imagine saying that about any other profession.

But don't you worry! Two children I teach tested positive(one of them sits right beside the whiteboard) and I was told no need to restrict my movements and carry on as normal Luckily I live with three other teachers (who are as disposable lol) and not my elderly parents.

Gotta achieve that herd immunity through children and teachers!!

If you are following the correct advice from the Department and maintaining social distancing and following the protocols, then yes, you are not a close contact.

Tomtom3105

alroley wrote: »

This is actually disgusting. Imagine saying that about any other profession.

But don't you worry! Two children I teach tested positive(one of them sits right beside the whiteboard) and I was told no need to restrict my movements and carry on as normal Luckily I live with three other teachers (who are as disposable lol - just replace us with untrained people who won't ask for a safe work place) and not my elderly parents.

Gotta achieve that herd immunity through children and teachers!!

It was a question, I dont know what the contact tracing issue they want resolved is.

Snotty

alroley wrote: »

This is actually disgusting. Imagine saying that about any other profession.

But don't you worry! Two children I teach tested positive(one of them sits right beside the whiteboard) and I was told no need to restrict my movements and carry on as normal

3% transmission in schools and kids are a lot closer to other kids than teachers, you are fine, the virus wasn't anyone's choice, but we all get on with it and do our best in a horrible time for many many people.

But of course you want those 2 weeks off, living room need repainted?

alroley

blanch152 wrote: »

If you are following the correct advice from the Department and maintaining social distancing and following the protocols, then yes, you are not a close contact.

I literally cannot be less than 2m away from the children in the front row in one of the rooms I teach in. Their desks are pushed against the wall beside the whiteboard.

Bananaleaf

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

It was a question, I dont know what the contact tracing issue they want resolved is.

Genuine question - how can you not understand their issue, yet have so much to say against them?

History Queen

Snotty wrote: »

Again cherry picking the scenario but the results would be the same.

It's been documented that school transmission is only 3%, and I think this is bore out with anecdotal evidence in my small community, I won't mention that it was the GAA playing teacher who actually brought the virus in to our school. I don't really see how this is large enough to warrant the extra strain it would put on the system.

I'll give you an example. At the moment,due to the school version of contact tracing, in some classrooms no one is being deemed a close contact. Not one person. Do you think this is plausible? Students are less than 2m apart, they are wearing masks, teacher also wearing a mask. Classes are 1hour in duration.

Anyway I've my views, others have theirs. I agree with ASTI mostly, but think they shouldn't have brought pay issue in to it. I hope the issues are solved way before strike action comes in to play.

Rodney Bathgate

Newbie20 wrote: »

You were too lazy to read the previous couple of pages and went on a moan then. No surprise there.

Let’s see:

“Teachers have made it very clear that they want schools to stay open. They want the definition of a close contact in schools to change (basically to be in line with what a close contact is in any other walk of life) and they want faster test turnaround times. Not big requests at all really.”

“Not big requests at all really.”

Does your post represent all of their requests?

No.

Does your post misrepresent their requests?

Yes.

You can try to weasel out of it but it is still misrepresentation of their demands.

alroley

Snotty wrote: »

But of course you want those 2 weeks off, living room need repainted?

Bold of you to assume I have a living room to repaint.

I rent a box room.

Rodney Bathgate

alroley wrote: »

Bold of you to assume I have a living room to repaint.

I rent a box room.

Well la de da. Some of us live in boxes.

Bass Reeves

What this really means is that once again the ASTI is acting to try to use students and there education as a hostage. It is more insidious this time. The ASTI wants to prioritize a low risk section of the population for testing if the government wants to keep schools open. It also wants to create a situation where schools may have to close for long periods of this school year.

Along with this it brings on board the equal pay element that would open this hairy chestnut right across the public service. The ASTI lives in a cocoon that the highest paid teachers in Europe, with one if the shortest school weeks and with the longest holidays are hard done by. They will at every opportunity use students and the education system as hostages to there begging bowl.

Newbie20

blanch152 wrote: »

Unfortunately for teachers, the statistics do not back up their request.

As long as the positivity rates in schools remain below the positivity rates in the general population, there is no evidence that we are under-testing in schools or failing to detect cases.

This has been explained many times on these fora.

It has also been explained many times on these fora that statistics can be manipulated whatever way you want. If you deem classmates if a positive case not to be close contacts, then they won’t be tested. If they aren’t tested then they won’t be found to have covid. And so the government is able to say that there was one case in that school when logic would suggest it was probably more than a single case (or at least it should if it’s as transmissible as they tell us every single day).

Liamo57

thomas 123 wrote: »

That sounds like a you and everyone in your house problem.

Nothing stopping you retraining and getting those nice conditions.

For the record I am not a teacher, but why should anyone be forced into conditions deemed unsafe by our own government? (Gathering sizes and impossibility to social distance.)

I am retired and had a much cushier job than any teacher with a much better pension I rode the state bareback and lived to tell the tale and for the record I have a masters degree and a degree in bull**** for which I was paid handsomely. Up the Dubs

Snotty

History Queen wrote: »

I'll give you an example. At the moment,due to the school version of contact tracing, in some classrooms no one is being deemed a close contact. Not one person. Do you think this is plausible? Students are less than 2m apart, they are wearing masks, teacher also wearing a mask. Classes are 1hour in duration.

OK, but that does not mean you are going to get the virus, are you more likely to get it than a person working from home, yes. Are you more likely to get it than a factory working, probably no.
Schools have low transmission levels and there is no magic wand that will bring this to zero, so we do our best for the good of the country as a whole and talk of strike is selfish and over privileged.

alroley

This whole "schools have low transmission levels" is such bull****. Why are the government saying to turn the covid tracker off in schools? Why are they not testing close contacts like they do in every other setting? What are they afraid of?

blanch152

Newbie20 wrote: »

It has also been explained many times on these fora that statistics can be manipulated whatever way you want. If you deem classmates if a positive case not to be close contacts, then they won’t be tested. If they aren’t tested then they won’t be found to have covid. And so the government is able to say that there was one case in that school when logic would suggest it was probably more than a single case (or at least it should if it’s as transmissible as they tell us every single day).

If one person in a school is tested, and that person is positive, you have a positivity rate of 100%.

You are caught out straightaway by the fact that the positivity rate in schools is around 2%. With a positivity rate of 6% in the community, that means we are over testing in schools. The maths is as simple as that.

Tomtom3105

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Genuine question - how can you not understand their issue, yet have so much to say against them?

Honestly every time I see ASTI threatens strike I just zone out to their demands I personally dont care either way what they do my child lost full year this year, home schooled him, he went back he slotted in fine it was fine, but just from talking to friends and family and colleagues and their genuine fear of the teachers striking I think its shameful enough for the teachers to stick their oar in now, you would think there would be a case for parents to be on their side aswell,essentially the infections could come back to our homes from these infection hot spots the teachers reckon they are in, its just we dont need this right now and the teachers know it and are trying to capitalise on a ****ty situation, thats just what I think tho it is not backed up with any Harvard references.

Snotty

Newbie20 wrote: »

It has also been explained many times on these fora that statistics can be manipulated whatever way you want. If you deem classmates if a positive case not to be close contacts, then they won’t be tested. If they aren’t tested then they won’t be found to have covid. And so the government is able to say that there was one case in that school when logic would suggest it was probably more than a single case (or at least it should if it’s as transmissible as they tell us every single day).

There is actual bulk testing of schools being done to get larger testing samples, kind of kills your argument.

blanch152

History Queen wrote: »

I'll give you an example. At the moment,due to the school version of contact tracing, in some classrooms no one is being deemed a close contact. Not one person. Do you think this is plausible? Students are less than 2m apart, they are wearing masks, teacher also wearing a mask. Classes are 1hour in duration.

Anyway I've my views, others have theirs. I agree with ASTI mostly, but think they shouldn't have brought pay issue in to it. I hope the issues are solved way before strike action comes in to play.

That is complete nonsense, if it were true, then the positivity rate would be 100%.

It isn’t.

Jinglejangle69

alroley wrote: »

I literally cannot be less than 2m away from the children in the front row in one of the rooms I teach in. Their desks are pushed against the wall beside the whiteboard.

Of course they are.

Your school and principle have done you a disservice so.

Have you talked to the principle?

Or is striking the only option on the table?

TheValeyard

blanch152 wrote: »

That is complete nonsense, if it were true, then the positivity rate would be 100%.

It isn’t.

It's true. And from. What I've seen and heard, it's what's happening. Far from nonsense.

alroley

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

Honestly every time I see ASTI threatens strike I just zone out to their demands I personally dont care either way what they do my child lost full year this year, home schooled him, he went back he slotted in fine it was fine, but just from talking to friends and family and colleagues and their genuine fear of the teachers striking I think its shameful enough for the teachers to stick their oar in now, you would think there would be a case for parents to be on their side aswell,essentially the infections could come back to our homes from these infection hot spots the teachers reckon they are in, its just we dont need this right now and the teachers know it and are trying to capitalise on a ****ty situation, thats just what I think tho it is not backed up with any Harvard references.

Yeah f*ck teachers for wanting safe work environments! Don't they know they don't matter? :rolleyes:

alroley

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Of course they are.

Your school and principle have done you a disservice so.

Have you talked to the principle?

Or is striking the only option on the table?

Of course I have talked to the principal. The response I got was that there is just not enough room. We can't just kick kids out of school so everyone can social distance.

I am not a member of ASTI so will not be striking if that is what ends up happening.

Jinglejangle69

alroley wrote: »

Yeah f*ck teachers for wanting safe work environments! Don't they know they don't matter? :rolleyes:

How many teachers are in hospital or have died from Covid 19?

Something tells me they are pretty safe in their work environment.

History Queen

Snotty wrote: »

OK, but that does not mean you are going to get the virus, are you more likely to get it than a person working from home, yes. Are you more likely to get it than a factory working, probably no.
Schools have low transmission levels and there is no magic wand that will bring this to zero, so we do our best for the good of the country as a whole and talk of strike is selfish and over privileged.

You are less likely to get it if your workplace has protocols in place to prevent it spreading particularly when a large proportion of your workplace (our students) are more likely to be asymptomatic. I don't think anyone is expecting zero. Just the same contact tracing protocols as others.

Widespread testing has lowered the infection rate in meat factories. Picking up cases quickly and removing them makes the workplace safer. https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1006/1169822-meat-plants/

Newbie20

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Let’s see:

“Teachers have made it very clear that they want schools to stay open. They want the definition of a close contact in schools to change (basically to be in line with what a close contact is in any other walk of life) and they want faster test turnaround times. Not big requests at all really.”

“Not big requests at all really.”

Does your post represent all of their requests?

No.

Does your post misrepresent their requests?

Yes.

You can try to weasel out of it but it is still misrepresentation of their demands.

How do teachers propose schools stay open?

I know comprehension is a weak point of yours but that was the question I was responding to. Did I say that I was listing out all of the demands? No.

Had I spoken in length about not agreeing with them looking for restoration of pay in a previous post just minutes before? Yes

Are you just looking to get a rise out of teachers / give out about them because you have nothing better to be doing / are bitter? Yes

Have I just realised that I’m wasting my time arguing on this thread with people that love to give out but probably don’t do a tap of work themselves? Yes, which is why I’m off to bed.

Snotty

alroley wrote: »

This whole "schools have low transmission levels" is such bull****. Why are the government saying to turn the covid tracker off in schools? Why are they not testing close contacts like they do in every other setting? What are they afraid of?

Because you are not a close contact, the system was not designed for a school situation, you ware masks, distance where possible but the Bluetooth of your phone and the students phone would alert even if you never came within 20foot of each other.
The covid tracker is a nice idea and will probably work in some cases, but not this.