Star Trek Discovery S03E03 'People of Earth' - Discussion

corkie

Deleted User wrote: »

Why did we have Michael bestowing Captainship on Saru?

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

The magnanimous commander Burnham gifts captain saru with the captaincy of the ship come on.

Smacruairi wrote: »

It annoyed me that Saru had to get Micks blessing to be true captain, this thread has been calling for it for 2 years.

Rawr wrote: »

Captain Saru is a great Starfleet captain. I've always liked the character and he earned the Big Chair *aaaaaages* ago. I am kind of pissed that he felt the need to ask the officer who punched his last Captain *to start a war*, for permission to take the chair. And then after committing an offence that would normally be grounds for her demotion, Burnham assumes that Saru will give her the XO spot and accepts it before he even asks. Like last time, the plot is really still being built around Burnham. It feels like they haven't learned a damned thing! Very disappointing.

As the captaincy seems to be an issue in the thread, it follows on from a Season 2 discussion where they agreed to discuss it once in the future.
Edit: - S02E13 40:00 mins approx.

"Mr. Saru,

you have the conn
as Commander Burnham leads you

through the wormhole.

As to what happens after that...

I would prefer if we focus
on our respective tasks for now

and discuss the captaincy later."
^^^ https://subslikescript.com/series/Star_Trek_Discovery-5171438/season-2/episode-13-Such_Sweet_Sorrow


"The Discovery was long overdue for a permanent Captain and it was always going to come down to Burnham or Saru, with the expectation that they would discuss who should ultimately accept the starship's command. Shockingly, at the start of Star Trek: Discovery season 3, episode 3, "People of Earth", Michael voluntarily relinquished her bid and insisted that Saru should be Captain. Commander Burnham noted, correctly, that Saru had served with honor as Acting Captain and that he deserved to be recognized as what he already was in the eyes of the crew (and Trekkers): the true Captain of the Discovery. Saru is, indeed, the best choice to be Captain and this was the correct decision for the starship and for the series as a whole."

^^^ https://screenrant.com/star-trek-discovery-captain-saru-michael-best-choice/

So not a case of Micheal bestowing the rank to Saru, but rejecting the role for herself. Since they both have the same rank and maybe not equal claim to it.

++ "Best of all, Captain Saru represents another breakthrough for Star Trek because the Kelpien now has the distinction of being the first truly alien starship captain of a Star Trek series"

Slydice wrote: »

Oh! I liked that episode!
What gives?! How come my huge takeaway was a reminder of Boothby?! He wasn't even in this episode. Jeez he really musta left an impresssion!

I raised the same point in thread and it was discussed on Reddit, so other's had the same thoughts.

Tired Gardener

That honestly felt like a much better episode, I'll even go as far to say the best episode Discovery has done so far.

I think Discovery should have been about this from the get go. Season 1 and 2 juts felt like it was bumperling along into a theme. If season 1 had of been the Diacovery doing its classified experiments in drives accidentally travels 900 years into the future. Then the theme of the show could be about exploring and working out what has happened in the future, all the while trying to find a way back to their timeline with the aim to prevent this future from happening.

Do it as an episodic show and bam! That would be a good direction to take Star Trek, allows a lot of breathing space for the writers to come up with new ideas.

Still think the characters need a lot of work. Surprised that even with Michael Burnham's display of being reckless without informing Saru, Saru thinks that she will make a great number one.

Talking of Michael Burnham, how fast does her hair grow? It's been a year, and well, that looks like about 4 years worth of growth.

CastorTroy

Haven't read the whole thread.

Was expecting them to show Burnham hug everyone the way they were going.
And what's with the constant reaction shots?

I'm sure it's being said already but I hope Discovery starts to get upgrades. It's from a few centuries from now and tech has advanced that far in that time, so 9 centuries after that really needs to have some advancements for them. They're already somehow holding their own despite being outdated tech. Like how Voyager got upgrades. Hope with the new one on now, they can help.
I don't even know how they can still communicate with people, considering we would have trouble hooking a modern device to something from a couple decades ago.

Evade

CastorTroy wrote: »

I don't even know how they can still communicate with people, considering we would have trouble hooking a modern device to something from a couple decades ago.

Communication technologies are probably designed to interface with completely different systems since the chances of the new alien species you're meeting has the exact same design as yours sre slim.

flazio

Interesting line.
"A view screen, how quaint"
That's a fair point even from the period they left. Remember how it was all holograms for the last couple of series. What happened to the holograms? I know Pike had a preference for view screens but Discovery wasn't his ship. Enterprise was.

TheValeyard

flazio wrote: »

Interesting line.
"A view screen, how quaint"
That's a fair point even from the period they left. Remember how it was all holograms for the last couple of series. What happened to the holograms? I know Pike had a preference for view screens but Discovery wasn't his ship. Enterprise was.

Maybe it was a security problem. Possibly holograms could be reprogrammed or easier to hack a ship.

I vaguely remember some reference to “no more holograms” in series 2, but I can’t remember the specifics.

Stark

I think holograms are just a technology that comes and goes in cycles, like VR goggles.

Have you seen that Robert Kardashian hologram? Can easily imagine only a few decades between that and Discovery-level holograms. It also has that "Uncanny Valley" sense of creepiness that several Discovery characters have referrred to. Like just because you have the technology and you can use it, doesn't mean you want to. They were probably the in vogue gimmick for a while on ships like Discovery, went away for a few decades, then came back in vogue again when the "Uncanny valley" problem was fixed and holograms were realistic enough for people to interact with without being creeped out.

Fun fact: the viewscreen on Federation starships (from 24th century onwards at least) is a 3D hologram view rather than a 2D flatscreen view.

Spear

Stark wrote: »

Have you seen that Robert Kardashian hologram?

Pepper's Ghost is two centuriess old. Proper holograms are a long way off yet.

corkie

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I vaguely remember some reference to “no more holograms” in series 2, but I can’t remember the specifics.

'Star Trek: Discovery' Explains Why 'Enterprise' Doesn't Communicate With Holograms

"In “An Obal for Charon,” it’s implied that the Enterprise has had a holographic communication system installed, but that it is now causing problems with restoring the ship to working order after the damage done to it while investigating the mysterious red signals throughout the galaxy. Pike tells Number One, his first officer, to have the Chief Engineer of the Enterprise rip the whole system out, saying that they’ll just go back to communicating using “good old-fashioned viewscreens,” and noting that he never liked the holograms anyway because they looked like ghosts."

+

"Some of Discovery’s prequel novels have hinted that the latter to be the case, suggesting that Starfleet came around to the idea that holographic communications takes up too much subspace bandwidth and were too easily hacked or intercepted. "

Star Trek: Discovery Explains Why Kirk and Picard Never Trust Holograms

"But in episode 9, the joke scans as foreshadowing: the out-of-control A.I. called “Control” actually does use a hologram to create a ghost, i.e. the illusion that a dead person—the Vulcan Admiral Patar—is still alive. We also learn that holograms were used to fake evidence that Spock murdered three people in cold (green) blood. Admiral Cornwell was fooled by holograms, Pike was fooled by holograms, and by the end of this season of Discovery, it seems possible that several other interactions might have been engineered via holographic bait-and-switch."

Star Trek: Discovery Crippled The Enterprise To Explain A Plot Hole

"The episode begins with Pike receiving an update on the Enterprise's repairs. Federation engineers have finally worked out the cause of the Enterprise's critical system errors: the holographic communication system. Something about the holo-comms clashed with the rest of the Enterprise's systems, and caused them to crash. Pike orders them stripped out, undoubtedly more than a little relieved because he's never been a fan of them anyway."

Banana Republic 1

Evade wrote: »

Because she's Michael Burnham, Saviour of the Multiverse.

Don't mistake my surprised praise of one episode and pointing out hits to the saucer are not usually disastrous as me being a defender of STD.

The blast door remark was me pointing out how absolutely nonsensical this series has been.

Fair enough

pah

It's been mentioned a few times here but if "The Burn" is related to Burnham or her mother I am completely done.

What are the odds in the vastness of space that Burnham and Discovery would emerge from the wormhole at different times and places only to crash land on different M- Class planets? Honestly it's just so lazy that it takes me out straight away.

I’ve forgiven more than most but the Burn(ham) thing would finish me off with it too.

Evade

I want them to do it. I need to see how they'll spin Burnham accidentally killing millions (should be trillions) of people and plunging the galaxy into lawless chaos into a good thing.

Was the establishing shot of Starfleet Academy the one used in Picard?

Rawr

Evade wrote: »

I want them to do it. I need to see how they'll spin Burnham accidentally killing millions (should be trillions) of people and plunging the galaxy into lawless chaos into a good thing.

Was the establishing shot of Starfleet Academy the one used in Picard?

I'm pretty close to finished with this show too, but I too would be interested to see how The Burnham Effect would be spinned into something positive. Or simply forget about the horrible death, just like they did with the Bruce Maddox murder in Picard.

If the entire universe of the future is somehow *actually* centered around Burnham's actions and that they fail to grasp the grim cost of those actions *again*, then I'm done. I'm also be done with Picard by extension, because I will have lost all remaining hope with these people's ability to deliver anything that resembles quality television...not to mention sci-fi or Trek. I'll be wait for more Lower Decks, and hope out of hope that CBS find a better show runner for the live action stuff if the franchise even has a future after all of this.

So...I *really* hope that they don't screw this up.

corkie

'Burn' ~~~ Theory: - Won't be resolved this season but ...


I have a strange feeling the 'Burn' Issue won't be resolved this season, which will be spent dealing with finding and rebuilding the Federation. Going by the episode titles.

The season could end with a cliff hanger, possibly introducing a new enemy race/species responsible for the 'Burn'.

Kingkong

In my opinion it's missing a plot so far. Need to slow it down and build out the story line. Too much focus on the next disaster. Next Generation always had a nice mix between developing the story, characters and then the action. Discovery Season 3 is all about the next fight

Spear

corkie wrote: »

'Burn' ~~~ Theory: - Won't be resolved this season but ...


I have a strange feeling the 'Burn' Issue won't be resolved this season, which will be spent dealing with finding and rebuilding the Federation. Going by the episode titles.

The season could end with a cliff hanger, possibly introducing a new enemy race/species responsible for the 'Burn'.

I suspect it will, since Georgiou needs to get back in time to appear in her Section 31 series (assuming it's not set in the 32nd century).

Banana Republic 1

Tired Gardener wrote: »

That honestly felt like a much better episode, I'll even go as far to say the best episode Discovery has done so far.

I think Discovery should have been about this from the get go. Season 1 and 2 juts felt like it was bumperling along into a theme. If season 1 had of been the Diacovery doing its classified experiments in drives accidentally travels 900 years into the future. Then the theme of the show could be about exploring and working out what has happened in the future, all the while trying to find a way back to their timeline with the aim to prevent this future from happening.

Do it as an episodic show and bam! That would be a good direction to take Star Trek, allows a lot of breathing space for the writers to come up with new ideas.

Still think the characters need a lot of work. Surprised that even with Michael Burnham's display of being reckless without informing Saru, Saru thinks that she will make a great number one.

Talking of Michael Burnham, how fast does her hair grow? It's been a year, and well, that looks like about 4 years worth of growth.

This show is so dreadful that anything approaching barely adequate seems good.

Goodshape

Spear wrote: »

I suspect it will, since Georgiou needs to get back in time to appear in her Section 31 series (assuming it's not set in the 32nd century).

I've not heard/read anything either way but I'd imagine and hope that it is set in the 32nd century. I'd just like to keep that comic book villian schtick a few hundred years away from the Strange New Worlds show, and anything else they might do in the 23rd - 25th century.

Banana Republic 1

Spear wrote: »

I suspect it will, since Georgiou needs to get back in time to appear in her Section 31 series (assuming it's not set in the 32nd century).

They will be some stupid alternate reality scenario which gets them out of it, that's assuming the writes can string four words together.

Rawr

corkie wrote: »

'Burn' ~~~ Theory: - Won't be resolved this season but ...


I have a strange feeling the 'Burn' Issue won't be resolved this season, which will be spent dealing with finding and rebuilding the Federation. Going by the episode titles.

The season could end with a cliff hanger, possibly introducing a new enemy race/species responsible for the 'Burn'.

You could be right there.
However their style of writing in the past two seasons seems to suggest some need to wrap up their plot threads by the end of the season. Thus, I'm expecting some kind of resolution or answer regarding The Burn by the end. Possibly involving a big space fight featuring all of the friends they made on the way...because that is a thing now...I suspect Book will swoop in with his trader friends and help at the last moment or something like that.

I fear and fully expect an ending that satisfies very few people, leaving them scratching their heads when CBS announce that shooting has begun on Season 4. This is assuming that these show-runners have learned nothing, and that the ending with be another disappointing mess, just like Seasons 1, 2 and Picard's end.

I suspect that they self-contain the seasons in the event of cancellation. Looking at Secret Hideout's record with CBS, most of their other non-Trek shows have a knack of being cancelled after 2 seasons. It could be that they build seasons with the assumption that they might have to wrap up the show after the end of any given season. CBS is not likely to cancel the flagship show of All Access so I think Discovery will probably survive until their service is renamed to "Paramount+" By then they may feel that they could safely cancel without it hurting the new branding.

It's a damned shame I'm even discussing how / when this show will end, but my gut tells me that the traditional 7 Seasons simply isn't in them. Unless they do something spectacularly good with the rest of these episodes, I really can't see it lasting beyond the next season. I would be delighted if they could pull it off, but I don't see it happening

corkie

Spear wrote: »

I suspect it will, since Georgiou needs to get back in time to appear in her Section 31 series (assuming it's not set in the 32nd century).

That was supposed to be filmed this year? <<< Covid and production has not even started.

Edited:- Line Deleted Sorry @Goodshape

Goodshape wrote: »

I've not heard/read anything either way but I'd imagine and hope that it is set in the 32nd century. I'd just like to keep that comic book villian schtick a few hundred years away from the Strange New Worlds show, and anything else they might do in the 23rd - 25th century.

Star Trek: Section 31 producer reveals a massive clue about the setting
^^^ Spoilers and theories about the show.

Goodshape

Corkie I wish you'd give more of a warning before you start talking about future episode titles, casting info, etc.

I see a spoiler tag in this thread and I expect it to be something about the episode, not spoilers and speculation for future episodes based on episode titles and IMDB cast and crew info.


edit:

corkie wrote: »

Edited:- Line Deleted Sorry @Goodshape

...

^^^ Spoilers and theories about the show.

Nice one, thanks

PirateShampoo

I'm hoping they do a baby Hilter angle and kill Burnham and all will be right in the Galaxy.

seamus

Yeah, wasn't crazy about that episode at all. I was optimistic when I saw Frakes's name at the start, but I felt like the whole thing fell a bit flat.

There was a definitely a decent, "Monster of the week" storyline there, but there are some unresolved questions in terms of why earth suddenly started ignoring the outer colonies. Paranoia aside, surely the first thing(s) they would do are send comms and send out sublight ships to scout the solar system to assess how everyone is getting on, rather than leaving them to fend for themselves.

Someone made a good point to me a couple of weeks back that not all 900 years are the same in terms of tech advancement, and I'm willing to accept that as the explanation for why tech only seems to be a couple of decades more advanced than VOY and why even a single shot from the orbital defence system wasn't enough to annihilate Discovery.

With the whole shift in the timeline, I'm getting real "season one" vibes from this season. They have to rebuild a universe again and that could be why there are so many things left hanging or seemingly don't fit with what we think we know.

The Admiral I have a suspicion is going to be super annoying. Like a mini-Tilly or something. But we'll see.

I think I would have liked to see more of Earth, but maybe they didn't want to get bogged down in that. I'm a little suspicious that Starfleet academy would still exist looking the same 900 years later, and more than 150 years after it was still needed. The Golden Gate bridge too, 1,400 years old. Is it really that important an architectural feature?

Maybe Starfleet academy is considered an important historical site.

AMKC

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, wasn't crazy about that episode at all. I was optimistic when I saw Frakes's name at the start, but I felt like the whole thing fell a bit flat.

There was a definitely a decent, "Monster of the week" storyline there, but there are some unresolved questions in terms of why earth suddenly started ignoring the outer colonies. Paranoia aside, surely the first thing(s) they would do are send comms and send out sublight ships to scout the solar system to assess how everyone is getting on, rather than leaving them to fend for themselves.

Someone made a good point to me a couple of weeks back that not all 900 years are the same in terms of tech advancement, and I'm willing to accept that as the explanation for why tech only seems to be a couple of decades more advanced than VOY and why even a single shot from the orbital defence system wasn't enough to annihilate Discovery.

With the whole shift in the timeline, I'm getting real "season one" vibes from this season. They have to rebuild a universe again and that could be why there are so many things left hanging or seemingly don't fit with what we think we know.

The Admiral I have a suspicion is going to be super annoying. Like a mini-Tilly or something. But we'll see.

I think I would have liked to see more of Earth, but maybe they didn't want to get bogged down in that. I'm a little suspicious that Starfleet academy would still exist looking the same 900 years later, and more than 150 years after it was still needed. The Golden Gate bridge too, 1,400 years old. Is it really that important an architectural feature?

Maybe Starfleet academy is considered an important historical site.

I agree a lot with your points about Earth.

It is a bit mad alright to think the Golden Gate bridge would still be there and still looking like new in 1400years time but maybe it has been reinforced over time especially as it has all them solar panels on it so it must be important to Earths infrastructure. As for Starfleet Academy maybe the new Earth defence Force or whatever it was called took it over to use for there headquarters. It is a bit crazy to think it would look the exactly the same 900 years later alright.

pixelburp

I actually liked that episode, almost unreservedly. The saccharine reunion stuff with Burnham nearly tipped things over the edge, but reading between the lines it felt like the episode was perhaps opening the door slightly to her leaving. Lots of not-subtext about whether Discovery was her true "home". We'll see but there was enough times it came up that it left me wondering. The script also quick to point out how less earnest she was, Burnham has good chemistry with Book.

The actual plot was classic Trek stuff that worked well IMO; a slightly sexed up version of the 'aul staple of "miscommunication solved with Federation diplomacy" sure, but I liked it.

silverharp

the writing was inconsistent , from the perspective of the crew of Discovery less than a day or so has passed, so all the tearful reunions make no sense. The whole plot with the Belters makes no sense either. The last shot of future San Francisco looked nice.

FGR

A lot of them have been mentioned before but my own views -

i) burnham saves the day. I'd still be annoyed by this world revolves around one person even if it was picard saving the day. It's ridiculous. Add to it that her mother is out there yet again makes this the michael burnham show

ii) I don't buy the argument about discovery being able to take two torpedo hits. Look at how many 24th century ships went down in one or two shots in the dominion war. Hell even the defiant struggled with a quantum equipped excelsior class vessel.

iii) earth completely isolating itself from the solar system. That made no sense as the federation still had many sub light speed civilian ships so why would the burn have stopped communications with resource wealthy colonies ?

Iv) why did the federation and starfleet leave earth? Were they forced out?

v) the whole season is a plothole especially if burnham caused the burn. If that was the case she and her mother would have been stopped from travelling through time by the pre time travel ban police. Besides when the burn happened why didn't the federation send a team back to find out what lead to this apocalyptic event ?

I still find it amusing that mb has been forgiven so easily for causing a war in season 1 that killed millions.

Thanks for reading my rant all.