Prisons & Sentencing in Ireland

jimwallace197

Such a bunch of dopey little jumped up hard men on this thread dying for the death penalty and 40 year sentences.

Ye wouldnt know the first thing about being found on the wrong side of the law, coercion of witnesses, manipulation of evidence, intimidation, evidence going missing, garda/police corruption amongst many many more things which have resulted in the wrongful prosecution of an individual either here or abroad.

I suppose ye are ok with a relative or friend or even yourselves being given the death penalty or serving a life sentence for something ye didnt do.

****ing clowns the lot of ye, little hardmen behind your keyboards and no doubt, ye would be the first to cry if ye were accused of something in the wrong.

If any of ye want to see an effective judicial and prison system, look no further than Finland rather than America which has one of the highest incarceration and re-offending rates in the world.

Atlantis50

...is far too lenient.

mynamejeff

jimwallace197 wrote: »

Such a bunch of dopey little jumped up hard men on this thread dying for the death penalty and 40 year sentences.

Ye wouldnt know the first thing about being found on the wrong side of the law, coercion of witnesses, manipulation of evidence, intimidation, evidence going missing, garda/police corruption amongst many many more things which have resulted in the wrongful prosecution of an individual either here or abroad.

I suppose ye are ok with a relative or friend or even yourselves being given the death penalty or serving a life sentence for something ye didnt do.

****ing clowns the lot of ye, little hardmen behind your keyboards and no doubt, ye would be the first to cry if ye were accused of something in the wrong.

If any of ye want to see an effective judicial and prison system, look no further than Finland rather than America which has one of the highest incarceration and re-offending rates in the world.

like your pal the jumped up little hard man crying in pubs in NYC after murdering a man in cold blood . are you upset that the rest of the family got lifted for trying to intimidate the witnesses

ohnonotgmail

skooterblue2 wrote: »

It wasnt the DNA that convicted them, it was glycerine under the finger nails. The concentration that it was could have been from washing up liquid rather than Nitro-Glycerine. Corrupt Government laboratories.

It was nitro-glycerine from playing cards that caused the false positive.

jimwallace197

mynamejeff wrote: »

like your pal the jumped up little hard man crying in pubs in NYC after murdering a man in cold blood . are you upset that the rest of the family got lifted for trying to intimidate the witnesses

Typical comment from a clown that doesnt know what he is talking about

mynamejeff

jimwallace197 wrote: »

Typical comment from a clown that doesnt know what he is talking about

aren't you going to try to call me out for a straightener like the last time ?

Big Ears

I find the discrepancy between these two cases interesting:

https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2020/1106/1176443-sligo-fraud/
Lady working in EBS fraudently transfers over €270,000 from 10 different people (primarily older people and those asking not to receive statements for their account).
She allegedly spends all this money on her children over the years and has nothing to show for it.
Sentenced to an 11 months in prison.

A Romanian man scams two elderly people out of €330,000, saying he needed it because he was being evicted from him home, needed cancer treatment in France and to attend his mother's funeral. Sentenced to 6 years in prison.

https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2020/1106/1176429-sentence-deceiving-elderly/

Now both cases are abhorrent, the man did take nearly €60,000 more money, and perhaps it's considered worse lying to people to gain their confidence and money than just stealing it without them knowing, but does the difference in terms not seem considerable, considering the similarity of crimes ?

In my opinion the woman appears to be getting off very lightly. Particularly when you consider she could get several months off that for good behaviour !

The Mighty Quinn

Big Ears wrote: »

Lady working in EBS fraudently transfers over €270,000 from...

In my opinion the woman appears to be getting off very lightly. Particularly when you consider she could get several months off that for good behaviour !

I'd do a year inside myself for that kinda money. It'd take a decade of tax free income and not spending any of it to accumulate it for most people.

Mark25

Yeah the woman seemed to get a much lighter sentence alright. The courts always seem to give women lighter sentences and they get much better treatment in prison also.

One of the reasons is probabky had no previous convictions abd admitted everything The man probably had a record and didnt co operate The womans victims got their money back from the bank too.

The man was also getting 650 a week from the state. More than most working people would get. Hope he gets deported after getting out.

jimwallace197

jimwallace197 wrote: »

If any of ye want to see an effective judicial and prison system, look no further than Finland

So, you are a fan of the Finnish system?
If you are suspected of a crime in Finland, you can be put in custody in prison for months, while it is being investigated. Months. With little or no evidence.
That cannot happen here, you cannot be kept in custody without being actually charged.
Also, there are no juries in Finland, personally I would be a fan of bringing the system in here, I didn't think it would be popular though

arctictree

Big Ears wrote: »

I find the discrepancy between these two cases interesting:

https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2020/1106/1176443-sligo-fraud/
Lady working in EBS fraudently transfers over €270,000 from 10 different people (primarily older people and those asking not to receive statements for their account).
She allegedly spends all this money on her children over the years and has nothing to show for it.
Sentenced to an 11 months in prison.

A Romanian man scams two elderly people out of €330,000, saying he needed it because he was being evicted from him home, needed cancer treatment in France and to attend his mother's funeral. Sentenced to 6 years in prison.

https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2020/1106/1176429-sentence-deceiving-elderly/

Now both cases are abhorrent, the man did take nearly €60,000 more money, and perhaps it's considered worse lying to people to gain their confidence and money than just stealing it without them knowing, but does the difference in terms not seem considerable, considering the similarity of crimes ?

In my opinion the woman appears to be getting off very lightly. Particularly when you consider she could get several months off that for good behaviour !

You've no idea if the Romanian man's excuses are true or not.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

bubblypop wrote: »

So, you are a fan of the Finnish system?
If you are suspected of a crime in Finland, you can be put in custody in prison for months, while it is being investigated. Months. With little or no evidence.
That cannot happen here, you cannot be kept in custody without being actually charged.
Also, there are no juries in Finland, personally I would be a fan of bringing the system in here, I didn't think it would be popular though

It can for serious offesnes where bail is denied.

What does the Finnish system use in place of jurues and do you feel that it is more or less effective?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It can for serious offesnes where bail is denied.

What does the Finnish system use in place of jurues and do you feel that it is more or less effective?

Bail is denied after a person has been charged. You cannot be kept in custody here without charge.

Finland use judges, some courts have one Judge, some other courts have 2 lay judges and we'll as a Judge. The lay judges would do the job full time & are aware of laws & procedures.

From an investigative point of view, having months to investigate, with the suspect in custody, means that they could be interviewed numerous times. Here you have a few hours only.

Big Ears

Big Ears wrote: »

I find the discrepancy between these two cases interesting:

https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2020/1106/1176443-sligo-fraud/
Lady working in EBS fraudently transfers over €270,000 from 10 different people (primarily older people and those asking not to receive statements for their account).
She allegedly spends all this money on her children over the years and has nothing to show for it.
Sentenced to an 11 months in prison.

A Romanian man scams two elderly people out of €330,000, saying he needed it because he was being evicted from him home, needed cancer treatment in France and to attend his mother's funeral. Sentenced to 6 years in prison.

https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2020/1106/1176429-sentence-deceiving-elderly/

Now both cases are abhorrent, the man did take nearly €60,000 more money, and perhaps it's considered worse lying to people to gain their confidence and money than just stealing it without them knowing, but does the difference in terms not seem considerable, considering the similarity of crimes ?

In my opinion the woman appears to be getting off very lightly. Particularly when you consider she could get several months off that for good behaviour !

She is rich background,he is poor background


Welcome to ireland

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

bubblypop wrote: »

Bail is denied after a person has been charged. You cannot be kept in custody here without charge.

Finland use judges, some courts have one Judge, some other courts have 2 lay judges and we'll as a Judge. The lay judges would do the job full time & are aware of laws & procedures.

From an investigative point of view, having months to investigate, with the suspect in custody, means that they could be interviewed numerous times. Here you have a few hours only.

Not sure about the being-in-custody-without-charge bit. That sounds a bit suspicious.

I'd prefer their system if I was accused of something. The decision being in the hands of someone with at least some leagal training would make me happier than a bunch of twelce random people taken in off the street.

skooterblue2

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

.......... than a bunch of twelce random people taken in off the street.

Not just twelve random men, twelve random men who werent smart enough to get out of jury duty. Who would put their fate in their hands?

Edgware

skooterblue2 wrote: »

It wasnt the DNA that convicted them, it was glycerine under the finger nails. The concentration that it was could have been from washing up liquid rather than Nitro-Glycerine. Corrupt Government laboratories.

I dont think the laboratories were corrupt. The tests were the tests of that time.
When the police got these results the fate of the Birmingham 6 etc was sealed.
Confessions were beaten out of four of the Birmingham men. The prosecution were able to tie this in with the tests results to convince the jury. Th
The prosecution put immense emphasis on the test results and in the presence of statements the defence at that point could not prove that the positive test results could have been caused by handling other substances.
The fact that Jimmy McDaid who blew himself up with a bomb was a lodger of one of them didnt help either. Overall the evidence was weak but got through the
jury at a time of hysteria due to the IRA bombing campaign.
It was when the appeals were thrown out that the big cover up started.
The Judges should not be influenced by anything but evidence but Denning and his colleagues rejected all defence arguments.

Edgware

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Not just twelve random men, twelve random men who werent smart enough to get out of jury duty. Who would put their fate in their hands?

Women can sit on juries as well.

skooterblue2

Edgware wrote: »

I dont think the laboratories were corrupt. The tests were the tests of that time.
When the police got these results the fate of the Birmingham 6 etc was sealed.
Confessions were beaten out of four of the Birmingham men. The prosecution were able to tie this in with the tests results to convince the jury. Th
The prosecution put immense emphasis on the test results and in the presence of statements the defence at that point could not prove that the positive test results could have been caused by handling other substances.
The fact that Jimmy McDaid who blew himself up with a bomb was a lodger of one of them didnt help either. Overall the evidence was weak but got through the
jury at a time of hysteria due to the IRA bombing campaign.
It was when the appeals were thrown out that the big cover up started.
The Judges should not be influenced by anything but evidence but Denning and his colleagues rejected all defence arguments.

This is how it happens, You get a senior Police officer and the head of a laboratory in a room and the conversation goes like this.

Police Officer: We have all these people of the right ethnicity, background in the same area at the same time. What we dont have is strong forensic evidence but we have something. If you can make it work it would take a lot of political pressure off us to get a result.

Lab Director: Well its not conclusive but you do have something. Let me see what we can find and we will see how we can tie it in.

Police officer: Well that is great that gets the Home Office off my back and I get seen to get stuff done. When I am promoted, we must investigate investment for new equipment to assist the Laboratory in its expanded role.

skooterblue2

Edgware wrote: »

Women can sit on juries as well.

ok, 12 random men/women/dogs/cats/full grown wholesome Turnips/ what ever you identify as. Who werent smart enough to get out of Jury Duty.

Edgware

skooterblue2 wrote: »

This is how it happens, You get a senior Police officer and the head of a laboratory in a room and the conversation goes like this.

Police Officer: We have all these people of the right ethnicity, background in the same area at the same time. What we dont have is strong forensic evidence but we have something. If you can make it work it would take a lot of political pressure off us to get a result.

Lab Director: Well its not conclusive but you do have something. Let me see what we can find and we will see how we can tie it in.

Police officer: Well that is great that gets the Home Office off my back and I get seen to get stuff done. When I am promoted, we must investigate investment for new equipment to assist the Laboratory in its expanded role.

Indeed. That is why you have appeals courts. But when they are part of the system you have no hope

mynamejeff

https://www.sundayworld.com/news/dublin-thief-caught-for-180th-time-while-on-booze-and-beauty-crime-spree-39747726.html

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/personal-trainer-who-set-fire-to-detectives-home-loses-sentence-appeal-39744917.html


https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/drug-dealer-fired-machine-gun-into-home-with-two-kids-inside-39744255.html

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/mum-of-five-with-265-criminal-convictions-jailed-for-theft-39744138.html

Although I am slow to reference the SW

these are four separate items from today alone , none of these people have ever done anything positive . they offer nothing and have spent their lives taking from all the rest of us , preying on the weak and stealing what they can to satisfy their own greed.

In each case I suggest that confining them for life would result in a safer environment for the rest of the citizens of the state. If you feel that it would violate their civil or human rights I would argue that they have abdicated those right by their own behaviour.

Strumms

mynamejeff wrote: »

https://www.sundayworld.com/news/dublin-thief-caught-for-180th-time-while-on-booze-and-beauty-crime-spree-39747726.html

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/personal-trainer-who-set-fire-to-detectives-home-loses-sentence-appeal-39744917.html


https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/drug-dealer-fired-machine-gun-into-home-with-two-kids-inside-39744255.html

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/mum-of-five-with-265-criminal-convictions-jailed-for-theft-39744138.html

Although I am slow to reference the SW

these are four separate items from today alone , none of these people have ever done anything positive . they offer nothing and have spent their lives taking from all the rest of us , preying on the weak and stealing what they can to satisfy their own greed.

In each case I suggest that confining them for life would result in a safer environment for the rest of the citizens of the state. If you feel that it would violate their civil or human rights I would argue that they have abdicated those right by their own behaviour.

265 convictions in her short life, jailed for a few months, out in less. Right. This country is such a bucket of absolute shîtshow unfairness now, from the top, down..

Fûck knows what happened here.

skooterblue2

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Not just twelve random men, twelve random men who werent smart enough to get out of jury duty. Who would put their fate in their hands?

Having served on a jury, I can assure you many of us (men and women) were smart enough to get out of it if we so wished, but saw it as our civic duty.

The system would collapse if we all tried to get our of it.

Imagive being a rape victim ( that surprised me, the amount of sex assaults), waiting to get justice, and knowing the jury selection room is only full of dumb f**kers, all the "smart" lads having skived off.

Gervais08

mynamejeff wrote: »

https://www.sundayworld.com/news/dublin-thief-caught-for-180th-time-while-on-booze-and-beauty-crime-spree-39747726.html

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/personal-trainer-who-set-fire-to-detectives-home-loses-sentence-appeal-39744917.html


https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/drug-dealer-fired-machine-gun-into-home-with-two-kids-inside-39744255.html

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/mum-of-five-with-265-criminal-convictions-jailed-for-theft-39744138.html

Although I am slow to reference the SW

these are four separate items from today alone , none of these people have ever done anything positive . they offer nothing and have spent their lives taking from all the rest of us , preying on the weak and stealing what they can to satisfy their own greed.

In each case I suggest that confining them for life would result in a safer environment for the rest of the citizens of the state. If you feel that it would violate their civil or human rights I would argue that they have abdicated those right by their own behaviour.

The first one who conned an 84 year old dementia patient should be boiled alive, skinned slowly and dipper in kosher salt.

Gervais08

Gervais08 wrote: »

The first one who conned an 84 year old dementia patient should be boiled alive, skinned slowly and dipper in kosher salt.

Its yet another miscarriage of justice..

begbysback

Gervais08 wrote: »

The first one who conned an 84 year old dementia patient should be boiled alive, skinned slowly and dipper in kosher salt.

Not sure if it’s just because I haven’t had breakfast yet, but this actually sounds tasty.

skooterblue2

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Having served on a jury, I can assure you many of us (men and women) were smart enough to get out of it if we so wished, but saw it as our civic duty.

The system would collapse if we all tried to get our of it.

Imagive being a rape victim ( that surprised me, the amount of sex assaults), waiting to get justice, and knowing the jury selection room is only full of dumb f**kers, all the "smart" lads having skived off.

I dont have that much faith in the Justice system or the State. I dont profess a great understanding of legal matters and fully believe in lawyers that twist things and people lying under oath. I dont feel the need to contribute to the system I cannot make head nor tail of.

I am sensitive to the victims of rape but feel for a variety of reasons I cannot contribute. The place they go looking for member of the jury is the voting register. There are so many people working and can easily get out of it, the only people who cannot get out of it is the able bodied and sound of mind unemployed people. My Grandfather was a landowner and was always called for it back in his day maybe once every 2 years. He got sick of being called away from his farm. I think everyone has the right to be called for jury duty but not everyone should be on a jury.

skooterblue2

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I dont have that much faith in the Justice system or the State. I dont profess a great understanding of legal matters and fully believe in lawyers that twist things and people lying under oath. I dont feel the need to contribute to the system I cannot make head nor tail of.

I am sensitive to the victims of rape but feel for a variety of reasons I cannot contribute. The place they go looking for member of the jury is the voting register. There are so many people working and can easily get out of it, the only people who cannot get out of it is the able bodied and sound of mind unemployed people. My Grandfather was a landowner and was always called for it back in his day maybe once every 2 years. He got sick of being called away from his farm. I think everyone has the right to be called for jury duty but not everyone should be on a jury.

For someone professing to have no great understanding of the process, you've a very strong negative opinion!

The bit in italics is absolute nonsense.
But I agree certain self employed could be better supported to allow them discharge their civic duty. Perhaps maximum week service, but tricky to implement.

skooterblue2

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

For someone professing to have no great understanding of the process, you've a very strong negative opinion!

The bit in italics is absolute nonsense.
But I agree certain self employed could be better supported to allow them discharge their civic duty. Perhaps maximum week service, but tricky to implement.

Yeah.
I have seen scumbags get off and great men get sent to prison for years. I didnt study law, I always felt if I didnt bother the law it wouldnt bother me. So I have dealing with neither the Police nor criminals.

How would you compensate a small business man for losing a weeks work and disgruntled suppliers and customers. Maybe his business is built around a relationship or specialist skill that cannot be replicated or substituted? Yet he has to close up shop and potentially lose customers. How would you guarantee they would not get caught in a complex murder trial? What about taking high skill workers out of the economy/public service? How would you compensate a student taking a week off from University, possibly missing labs?