Boxing Thread 30/10 (Usyk-Chisora, Santa Cruz-Davis, Inoue-Maloney, Munguia-Johnson)

EagererBeaver

Christ almighty what a KO. He must have visualised LSC as a woman to land that.

squinn2912

Poor Leo one of my favourite modern boxers. That was vicious and he was doing so well in the fight even in that round. I watched it mainly in Spanish on YouTube so I don’t know how long was left in the round or anything? I think Leo 5 years ago was too slick to get caught like that but Davis has monster power. What happened with Inoue?

walshb

squinn2912 wrote: »

Poor Leo one of my favourite modern boxers. That was vicious and he was doing so well in the fight even in that round. I watched it mainly in Spanish on YouTube so I don’t know how long was left in the round or anything? I think Leo 5 years ago was too slick to get caught like that but Davis has monster power. What happened with Inoue?

Inoue dominated an overmatched foe. Stopped him rd 7. Right hand KO shot

walshb

At 130 only Loma can challenge Tank

Let’s have this fight in the next 3-6 months!!!

AnniePowwa

mighty fine cherry picking by davis but he is with mayweather so what do you expect

simongurnick

walshb wrote: »

Stunning uppercut after he slipped a shot, and from the orthodox stance. Wicked!!

Was Leo up on the cards?

Tank was up 2 rounds with 2 judges and 1 with the other. Having said that, Leo was right in the fight. That KO was scary though. Massive power.
The fight before was great too, barrios and karl. Well worth a watch for anyone that didn't catch it

ASOT

simongurnick wrote: »

Tank was up 2 rounds with 2 judges and 1 with the other. Having said that, Leo was right in the fight. That KO was scary though. Massive power.
The fight before was great too, barrios and karl. Well worth a watch for anyone that didn't catch it

Mad how Karls face went from grand to absolutely butchered in a round or two. Class fight.

Morrison J

Love to see Breidis rock up to heavyweight and cause a storm along with Gassiev & Usyk. That era of cruisers is so underappreciated. All can push close to being top 5 heavyweights for me.

Morrison J

simongurnick wrote: »

Tank was up 2 rounds with 2 judges and 1 with the other. Having said that, Leo was right in the fight. That KO was scary though. Massive power.
The fight before was great too, barrios and karl. Well worth a watch for anyone that didn't catch it

Yeah had Tank up one round myself. Leo was fighting a great fight upto that point though. Catching a lot of Tanks shots and countering. His instincts to get into a war just got the better of him for a bit though and he got careless. Throwing three straight right hands in a row when cornered like he did was asking for Tank to time him.

squinn2912

Morrison J wrote: »

Love to see Breidis rock up to heavyweight and cause a storm along with Gassiev & Usyk. That era of cruisers is so underappreciated. All can push close to being top 5 heavyweights for me.

I agree. Even as a class within a class they’d be great matchups as hws

All of the top hws have vulnerabilities.

Morrison J

squinn2912 wrote: »

I agree. Even as a class within a class they’d be great matchups as hws

All of the top hws have vulnerabilities.

Big time. Even seeing how well Michael Hunter has done who was only ever really on the fringes at cruiser says a lot.

Funny how styles work. I reckon Gassiev would have KO'ed Chisora fairly easily last night. Hardly won a second of his fight against Usyk though. Gassiev can do very well at heavyweight I reckon serious lack of decent movers to expose him outside of Usyk and Fury.

walshb

Morrison J wrote: »

Big time. Even seeing how well Michael Hunter has done who was only ever really on the fringes at cruiser says a lot.

Funny how styles work. I reckon Gassiev would have KO'ed Chisora fairly easily last night. Hardly won a second of his fight against Usyk though. Gassiev can do very well at heavyweight I reckon serious lack of decent movers to expose him outside of Usyk and Fury.

Breidis and Gassiev may well be better suited at HW than Usyk, and who knows, could get their revenge; though, Gassiev would need a huge improvement on his fairly pedestrian showing v Usyk couple years back..

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

Breidis and Gassiev may well be better suited at HW than Usyk, and who knows, could get their revenge; though, Gassiev would need a huge improvement on his fairly pedestrian showing v Usyk couple years back..

Don't think either would get their revenge tbh. Stylistically Usyk is just a nightmare for Gassiev I think. Gassiev can give any heavyweight not named Usyk or Fury serious problems though for me.

Coneygree

Gassiev just turned 27 (although I feel his birth cert is 83 but misread as 93, lad looks 50!) so he's a baby in HW terms, and there's a tonne of improvement in him. A pity he didn't ditch Abel Sanchez when he'd the chance who's holding him back a lot I think. Sanchez is a hack who's made a name off working with one of the best fighters of the decade.

Usyk is soon 34 and Briedis 36 so they can't waste time. Briedis will stay as a CW I feel, I thought I read he'd debated retiring not too long ago as he hadn't the heart for it any more. He won the Super Series not too long ago, wouldn't surprise me if he never has a serious fight again.

Usyk is full of confidence and I have to admire that. He has nothing to lose, his legacy is sweet already, anything now is a bonus.

Morrison J

Will be interesting to see if Joshua drops the WBO belt. I do think one reason for this Fury-Joshua talk becoming more real is that Joshua's side know the risk in fighting Usyk and would rather take the risk against Fury for ten times the payday.

Usyk is a tough nights work for Joshua and has got a lot of tools that would cause Joshua problems. The difference in footwork and head movement would be massive. Whether Joshua's size negates the difference in skill between the two is very possible though.

Joshua won't be able to put it on Usyk like Chisora did last night. Will be a fight fought more at distance which would suit Usyk much more. Think I'd make Usyk a slight favourite tbh but I'd want to see more killer instinct from him than he showed last night in the latter rounds.

walshb

Fury I think a far less certain type win fight for AJ...

Usyk fight has to be viewed as easier to AJ

But, yes, if the money is so much more v Fury, and AJ wants no possible banana skins, then he would be right to target Fury

AJ KO 3 Usyk

AJ KO 6 Fury..

AJ surely wasn’t seeing anything to fear from Usyk last night?!

walshb

Morrison J wrote: »

Joshua won't be able to put it on Usyk like Chisora did last night

I must be watching a different sport!

What did he put on him?

He was terrible. Lunging in like an overgrown sloth with slow sloppy readable punches..

And Usyk was running and ducking and diving for large parts...

Joshua will be putting a completely different offence on Usyk. A half bloody effective one, I assume..

Long hard range power shots. Stepping in with clean and crisp and accurate power shots..in close, far stronger. Mid range, far deadlier...

Snappy hard jabs, right crosses, uppercuts, hooks. All 250 lbs of them..

Chisora last night put nothing of actual substance together. He was terrible.

squinn2912

I find the suggestion that based on last night Usyk gives aj problems absolutely ludicrous and I’d be supporting him big time. Usyk didn’t like the close in stuff at all with Chisora, who several times turned himself in a full circle missing big shots. Aj would be calmer, use his jab and reach and he has much more footwork to trouble usyk. I actually think it would be an easy night’s work. Usyk had Chisora in trouble once and he was blowing very heavily from round 3. He did well to maintain the plugging but an elite operator should have annihilated him given all of that. Usyk’s footwork is really good to look at and he does have good, fast hands but for me it’s a devastating ko to aj. I could see him making more of a fight of it with Fury tbh I just think aj is all wrong for him.

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

Fury I think a far less certain type win fight for AJ...

Usyk fight has to be viewed as easier to AJ

But, yes, if the money is so much more v Fury, and AJ wants no possible banana skins, then he would be right to target Fury

AJ KO 3 Usyk

AJ KO 6 Fury..

AJ surely wasn’t seeing anything to fear from Usyk last night?!

Fury definitely a tougher fight but they're both fights Joshua can lose and one gives him a far bigger payday than the other. He'll get a guaranteed rematch against Fury too so you can multiply that payday by two. Lose to Usyk and that's gone. It's a massive risk.

I think Joshua would be best not to read much into Usyk's performance last night. It's not a great indicator for how a fight with him will go.

I'd be backing both Fury and Usyk to stop Joshua late I think.

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

I must be watching a different sport!

What did he put on him?

He was terrible. Lunging in like an overgrown sloth with slow sloppy readable punches..

And Usyk was running and ducking and diving for large parts...

Joshua will be putting a completely different offence on Usyk. A half bloody effective one, I assume..

Long hard range power shots. Stepping in with clean and crisp and accurate power shots..in close, far stronger. Mid range, far deadlier...

Snappy hard jabs, right crosses, uppercuts, hooks. All 250 lbs of them..

Chisora last night put nothing of actual substance together. He was terrible.

Didn't say Chisora was particularly great but he clearly put the pressure on and backed Usyk up for spells of the fight. His work was often sloppy aye but he had success in spurts and made Usyk a bit uncomfortable.

The Briedis fight was one where Usyk was put under consistent pressure in a more skilled manner and he had his struggles there too. It's clear the best way to beat him is with pressure. I think the Fury that fought Wilder in the second fight coming forward while still being elusive and landing big shots would be Usyk's worst nightmare. I even think a fit Andy Ruiz would give him plenty of problems.

Joshua v Usyk will be much more of a chess match than that fight last night or the Briedis fight which will suit Usyk's strengths a lot more.

Morrison J

squinn2912 wrote: »

I find the suggestion that based on last night Usyk gives aj problems absolutely ludicrous and I’d be supporting him big time. Usyk didn’t like the close in stuff at all with Chisora, who several times turned himself in a full circle missing big shots. Aj would be calmer, use his jab and reach and he has much more footwork to trouble usyk. I actually think it would be an easy night’s work. Usyk had Chisora in trouble once and he was blowing very heavily from round 3. He did well to maintain the plugging but an elite operator should have annihilated him given all of that. Usyk’s footwork is really good to look at and he does have good, fast hands but for me it’s a devastating ko to aj. I could see him making more of a fight of it with Fury tbh I just think aj is all wrong for him.

Its the idea that Joshua is going to go in and easily bowl over Usyk that I find ludicrous. It's heavyweight boxing and Usyk is undersized so it obviously could happen but Usyk isn't that easy to find. Parker is probably the nearest comp to Usyk that Joshua has faced and he couldn't come near to pinning him down and Usyk is multiple levels above Parker.

I think Joshua fights quite cautious for the most part with little trust in his chin or gas tank. Usyk will have room to manoeuvre around the ring and land some counters. It's a fight that will more than likely go rounds for me and the longer it goes the more the advantage swings towards Usyk.

walshb

Parker is not great, but he employed a very effective defense vs AJ..slippy and hiding type defense..

Usyk’s defence for me isn’t suited best to avoiding AJs type punches and delivery

You also seem to think AJ will have chin and stamina concerns?

I don’t think this will be anywhere near a level to really limit his offensive commitment..

I can’t see Usyk not getting whacked very clean here, and I don’t think his beard takes it. Combination of his size/weight and AJ landing very heavily!

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

Parker is not great, but he employed a very effective defense vs AJ..slippy and hiding type defense..

Usyk’s defence for me isn’t suited best to avoiding AJs type punches and delivery

You also seem to think AJ will have chin and stamina concerns?

I don’t think this will be anywhere near a level to really limit his offensive commitment..

I can’t see Usyk not getting whacked very clean here, and I don’t think his beard takes it. Combination of his size/weight and AJ landing very heavily!

I think Joshua nearly always fights with chin and stamina concerns at the forefront. Remember we're coming off him fighting the most conservative fight of his career against Ruiz where he didn't engage at all. He did the same against Takam and Parker after getting wobbled against Wlad in the fight before.

Joshua's power being greatly exaggerated too. He's only ever stopped guys who stood in front of him like Takam, Povetkin, Molina etc. Guys with a bit of head movement like Parker and Ruiz he's gone the distance with or been knocked out himself. I don't see the argument for Usyk's defence not being suited to avoid Joshua's shots. Anyone with decent head movement to date has avoided them and Usyk is the best mover Joshua has ever faced by an absolute mile.

walshb

I think all this hype and talk about Usyk’s movement is odd..

He can move around. Big deal..

You’d swear he was the HW version of Vasyl, and the defensive genius of Vasyl. He is not. Nowhere near it. He can absolutely be found and tagged.

To win he has to throw punches and be in the firing range against a far bigger man all over. Height, reach, weight.........one who has very good solid power, and who throws the type punches that will find the target..

Usyk’s head movement? It may avoid here and there, but again, it’s not Vasyl type movement, and not close..

As mentioned, Usyk has better chance vs. Fury...still think Fury too big, and will bully Usyk, as well as really hurt him..

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

I think all this hype and talk about Usyk’s movement is odd..

He can move around. Big deal..

Strongly disagree tbh but do you not even think his movement is much better than Parker's or Ruiz's? Because that's the benchmark to survive 12 rounds against Joshua so far. Not a very high benchmark in fairness.

I'd rewatch the Gassiev fight too if you aren't impressed with his movement. For me maybe the best overall performance in boxing of the last 10 years. Definitely up there anyway.

selectamatic

Ruiz survived the second fight because he has a solid chin and Joshua didn't engage with heavy combos due to being fearful of getting countered. He was hit with a few very solid straight rights that would have wobbled quite a few other HW's but he took them very well.

It was absolutely nothing to do with movement.

Morrison J

selectamatic wrote: »

Ruiz survived the second fight because he has a solid chin and Joshua didn't engage with heavy combos due to being fearful of getting countered. He was hit with a few very solid straight rights that would have wobbled quite a few other HW's but he took them very well.

It was absolutely nothing to do with movement.

The second fight was different because Ruiz came in as a fat slob and Joshua used the most conservative tactics of all time. I wouldn't even say Ruiz's chin was tested that greatly tbh. The first fight though Ruiz utilized his head movement and made Joshua miss and pay and hurt him multiple times. That's what made Joshua go back to the drawing board and fight a completely different fight in the rematch.

Why do you think he couldn't stop Parker?

walshb

Morrison J wrote: »

Strongly disagree tbh but do you not even think his movement is much better than Parker's or Ruiz's? Because that's the benchmark to survive 12 rounds against Joshua so far. Not a very high benchmark in fairness.

I'd rewatch the Gassiev fight too if you aren't impressed with his movement. For me maybe the best overall performance in boxing of the last 10 years. Definitely up there anyway.

I made the point before on another thread about Parker’s defense and elusiveness vs. Usyk’s. Different methods completely...

And Parker’s sole objective was to survive, not engage and win.

selectamatic

Morrison J wrote: »

The second fight was different because Ruiz came in as a fat slob and Joshua used the most conservative tactics of all time. I wouldn't even say Ruiz's chin was tested that greatly tbh. The first fight though Ruiz utilized his head movement and made Joshua miss and pay and hurt him multiple times. That's what made Joshua go back to the drawing board and fight a completely different fight in the rematch.

Why do you think he couldn't stop Parker?

True in part. But this was largely due to the fact Ruiz clipped Joshua early which slowed him greatly. Your original point though was about movement and lasting 12rds. I just pointed out that movement had nothing to do with Ruiz surviving 12rds.

Couldn't stop parker because he moved well when out of range and stayed elusive during inside confrontations. The caveat must be added though that all this was done in a negative/survival style. Which meant parker was never going to actually win. Which is kind of the point of boxing.

I could see Usyk surviving too but he'll want to win so their has to be somewhat of a trade off.

On last nights showing I feel it'll be a very tall task for Usyk to do enough offensively to beat AJ or Fury. Maybe he could? I'd love it if he could, I'm a big fan.

Morrison J

selectamatic wrote: »

Couldn't stop parker because he moved well when out of range and stayed elusive during inside confrontations. The caveat must be added though that all this was done in a negative/survival style. Which meant parker was never going to actually win. Which is kind of the point of boxing.

I think that's a bit unfair on Parker. I thought Parker was doing quite well on the outside making Joshua miss and looking to slip inside to do work. The ref kept breaking them up when they came together inside though so Parker didn't have a prayer of sustaining any offense. Still thought Parker won a fair few rounds though and I thought Joshua looked quite poor being unable to pin him down even though the ref gave him every advantage.

The prevailing wisdom on here seems to be that Joshua will just walk him down, trap him and score a relatively straight forward knockout. I just think people are overrating Joshua here and maybe being a bit deceived by how well he's been matched moving up the levels if they think it'll be that easy. This is a pretty big step up for him and a nightmare style match up. Nothing straightforward about it at all.