Your New WHS Index

dk1982

prawnsambo wrote: »

No. He can't edit it, but his handicap secretary can edit or delete it as necessary. It won't stop hm entering other rounds.

Thanks a mill

hurleronditch

Golfgraffix wrote: »

The simple answer is the calculation for 18 does not inlcude CR-Par, the 9 hole calculation does.

Its an odd one. My CH for 18 is 10, but if i play the front 9 i get 6 and the back 9 i get 5. If I was to decide to play a counting front and then a counting back (there seems to be no rule to stop me) i would get anoher shot.

Do you know why this is the case? It seems kinda counter intuitive to me. I’m considering joining a 9 holer near me, they do a fair few 9 hole comps but it feels like a bit of a disincentive to me that I get 9 shots for an 18 hole comp but only an aggregate of 6 if 2 x 9 hole comps are played over the “front” 9.

prawnsambo

hurleronditch wrote: »

Do you know why this is the case? It seems kinda counter intuitive to me. I’m considering joining a 9 holer near me, they do a fair few 9 hole comps but it feels like a bit of a disincentive to me that I get 9 shots for an 18 hole comp but only an aggregate of 6 if 2 x 9 hole comps are played over the “front” 9.

There are a fair few possible reasons for it. One is that when calculating the score differential, the score is converted to an 18 hole score (in order to have matching SDs) by using 2 x CR for the nine holes played and not the CR for the 18 hole course. This is because there can often be a significant variation between front and back nines. Below is the explanation and calculations from the CONGU manual on WHS:

Score Differential = (113 / Slope) x (Adjusted Gross Score – CR – (0.5 x PCC)) - (The daily PCC -1)

Where:
• The Slope is the rating for the 9 holes played.
• The CR used is the CR for the nine holes played, doubled (it is not the CR for the 18-hole course even if one were available).
• The Adjusted Gross Score is calculated by scaling the 9-holes played using Net Pars for the second nine holes plus one additional stroke (Rule 5.1b and Diagram 5.1b/1). The 18-hole CH used for this part of the calculation is itself derived from scaling of the CH for the 9 holes played. It is not the CH that the player uses for an 18-hole round (Rule 6.1a). It is calculated as:
CH = (HI x (9-hole Slope / 113)) + ((2 x 9-hole CR) – (2 x 9-hole Par))

gypsy79

Anyone having issues with low index been created crazily

My example is 13 handicapper who shot a 74 in his third round. So had a -1 adjustment at the time too. This created a handicap of 2.1 which is now his low index. He is a 13 handicapper every other week. Surely low index should be started when 20 rounds are played?

prawnsambo

gypsy79 wrote: »

Anyone having issues with low index been created crazily

My example is 13 handicapper who shot a 74 in his third round. So had a -1 adjustment at the time too. This created a handicap of 2.1 which is now his low index. He is a 13 handicapper every other week. Surely low index should be started when 20 rounds are played?

If he shot a 74, he's not a 13 handicapper. I know lads can have a good day, but shooting (I assume) two over par is a serious score and hard to reconcile with a 13 handicap.

Also, has he just put in cards for initial handicap allocation or has very few counting rounds this year?

big_drive

Could anyone explain how a fourball better ball stableford works under the new system, what allowances are allowed handicap wise?

5989

big_drive wrote: »

Could anyone explain how a fourball better ball stableford works under the new system, what allowances are allowed handicap wise?

85%

big_drive

5989 wrote: »

85%

85% of course handicap is it?

prawnsambo

big_drive wrote: »

85% of course handicap is it?

Yep.

Rikand

We have a player in our club

He played 2 rounds in the one day last year which are part of his 20 rounds. Same course, same slope rating, same tees, same course rating and on the day, the same PCC of 2 being applied.
His rounds, an 83 and an 84. The 84 is being used to calculate his handicap, but the 83 is not despite the fact the 83 is definitely the better round and has the lowest Score Differential.

Any thoughts ?

prawnsambo

The only thing I can think of is that one affected his handicap for the next. Also assume that they were played under CONGU rather than WHS. There may have been an adjustment made on one of them that doesn't show under WHS.

gypsy79

prawnsambo wrote: »

If he shot a 74, he's not a 13 handicapper. I know lads can have a good day, but shooting (I assume) two over par is a serious score and hard to reconcile with a 13 handicap.

Also, has he just put in cards for initial handicap allocation or has very few counting rounds this year?

No, it was 4 over

His next two best scores are 81 and 82.....he has 2 88's and 89 in his 8 scores from the 20. Then lots of low 90s.

I think he should have ESR for that round. I have played with him. He is a 13

The 3 rounds for generating handicap were not put on system in our club.

Rikand

Rikand wrote: »

We have a player in our club

He played 2 rounds in the one day last year which are part of his 20 rounds. Same course, same slope rating, same tees, same course rating and on the day, the same PCC of 2 being applied.
His rounds, an 83 and an 84. The 84 is being used to calculate his handicap, but the 83 is not despite the fact the 83 is definitely the better round and has the lowest Score Differential.

Any thoughts ?

Was the 84 his first score? We received an email last week saying that you could only play the same course once each day for handicap purposes unless it was a specific 36 hole event.

Rikand

Exactly wrote: »

Was the 84 his first score? We received an email last week saying that you could only play the same course once each day for handicap purposes unless it was a specific 36 hole event.

It was a specific 36 hole event and the 83 is recorded before the 84.... as in, the 83 will drop off his record before the 84 which would indicate that the 83 was his first round


It was under Congu though, so perhaps thats the reasoning above as prawn said. Just strange that whatever may be calculated doesnt reflect in the score differential

hurleronditch

gypsy79 wrote: »

No, it was 4 over

His next two best scores are 81 and 82.....he has 2 88's and 89 in his 8 scores from the 20. Then lots of low 90s.

I think he should have ESR for that round. I have played with him. He is a 13

The 3 rounds for generating handicap were not put on system in our club.

If he is capable of a +4 round, you can’t say he’s a 13. He may not be a 2, but he could potentially be a 7 or 8, and once his adjustments get diluted he will probably end up there.

I had my best ever round last weekend, and because I haven’t played since WHS came in and I had limited cards on the board before WHS I got whacked with an adjustment, and my current index is 2 shots lower than my best ever score. Just tell your mate to enjoy telling people he’s off 2 for a while, and he’ll settle back to where he should be before long.

prawnsambo

Rikand wrote: »

It was a specific 36 hole event and the 83 is recorded before the 84.... as in, the 83 will drop off his record before the 84 which would indicate that the 83 was his first round

I wouldn't think the order would be exactly chronological. GolfNet only ever recorded the date of a round and not the time. And a 36 hole comp may only have been updated to GolfNet when the comp was over, rather than after each round. So it may be entirely random as to which round was first in WHS.

gypsy79

hurleronditch wrote: »

If he is capable of a +4 round, you can’t say he’s a 13. He may not be a 2, but he could potentially be a 7 or 8, and once his adjustments get diluted he will probably end up there.

I had my best ever round last weekend, and because I haven’t played since WHS came in and I had limited cards on the board before WHS I got whacked with an adjustment, and my current index is 2 shots lower than my best ever score. Just tell your mate to enjoy telling people he’s off 2 for a while, and he’ll settle back to where he should be before long.

I am doing this as part of my role on clubs handicap committee not because he is my mate.

I see nothing in your post but opinion. No offence but I am looking for facts on WHS.

Rikand

prawnsambo wrote: »

I wouldn't think the order would be exactly chronological. GolfNet only ever recorded the date of a round and not the time. And a 36 hole comp may only have been updated to GolfNet when the comp was over, rather than after each round. So it may be entirely random as to which round was first in WHS.

Still, either way, it's wrong that the lower score differential is not being picked up. That should be the primary key

prawnsambo

gypsy79 wrote: »

No, it was 4 over

His next two best scores are 81 and 82.....he has 2 88's and 89 in his 8 scores from the 20. Then lots of low 90s.

I think he should have ESR for that round. I have played with him. He is a 13

The 3 rounds for generating handicap were not put on system in our club.

Low index is created as soon as there is a valid handicap index. So unfortunately, that good round is going to (probably) put a hard cap on his index. So he's stuck with it for 12 months. I assume that means his handicap index is stuck at 7.1. Afaik, there's no way to reset the caps unless you (guessing here) delete the score concerned.

prawnsambo

Rikand wrote: »

Still, either way, it's wrong that the lower score differential is not being picked up. That should be the primary key

As I said earlier, there has to be an additional element in there to make it a counting score instead of the one that looks lower. There were lots of adjustments being made at the changeover due to GolfNet missing scores and other anomalies that handicap committees had to correct. Many of them originated on the club side, due to competitions being closed, opened again, amended and then closed again without GolfNet being updated.

Rikand

-edit-

What I wrote was incorrect. Edited to prevent confusion

Rikand

prawnsambo wrote: »

Low index is created as soon as there is a valid handicap index. So unfortunately, that good round is going to (probably) put a hard cap on his index. So he's stuck with it for 12 months. I assume that means his handicap index is stuck at 7.1. Afaik, there's no way to reset the caps unless you (guessing here) delete the score concerned.

Not true from my observation

I'm looking at a guy now who has played 17 rounds but their first round is july 2020. They dont have a low index given in their scoring history as they have not played the 20 rounds. It's the same when a new member is created and their 3 cards input. They get a handicap index but not a low index

gypsy79

From my observation, the low index is created once 20 rounds have been played. But I thought it would start from that point (after 20 played) rather than the lowest point over the 20 when the score is flying around.

One way I could reduce it is by seeing if I can get his 3 cards and entering those. As the low round would be 6th round rather than 3rd so more rounds counting

finglashoop

is the system automatically assigning him that score?

so if anyone goes and shoots the lights out they will see a dramatic drop like that?

how will the new system deal with me playing two opens on two courses in one day? i assume the first score won't affect me when i sign in for second open. or will it adjust as soon as first score is entered?

Rikand

gypsy79 wrote: »

From my observation, the low index is created once 20 rounds have been played. But I thought it would start from that point (after 20 played) rather than the lowest point over the 20 when the score is flying around.

One way I could reduce it is by seeing if I can get his 3 cards and entering those. As the low round would be 6th round rather than 3rd so more rounds counting

You would have to make sure you backdate his 3 rounds though. Integrity of the system and all that

Rikand

gypsy79 wrote: »

From my observation, the low index is created once 20 rounds have been played. But I thought it would start from that point (after 20 played) rather than the lowest point over the 20 when the score is flying around.

One way I could reduce it is by seeing if I can get his 3 cards and entering those. As the low round would be 6th round rather than 3rd so more rounds counting

You're right. I was wrong. I was getting it mixed up with something else. I had to find a few members who were here longer than a year with less then 20 played. None of them have a low index

gypsy79

finglashoop wrote: »

is the system automatically assigning him that score?

so if anyone goes and shoots the lights out they will see a dramatic drop like that?

The system is automatic....he had the low round in third recorded round which is part of the reason causing the issue (or at least exaggerating it)

Rikand wrote: »

You would have to make sure you backdate his 3 rounds though. Integrity of the system and all that

It wouldnt have the effect I want if I didnt!! As they would be still be ignored due to the cap.

But it should push the hard cap a little higher than it is now. My guess the hard cap will be about 11 if I add them

Now whether someone can find the cards.....400-500 new members over last year doesnt make it easy

Rikand

gypsy79 wrote: »

The system is automatic....he had the low round in third recorded round which is part of the reason causing the issue (or at least exaggerating it)



It wouldnt have the effect I want if I didnt!! As they would be still be ignored due to the cap.

But it should push the hard cap a little higher than it is now. My guess the hard cap will be about 11 if I add them

Now whether someone can find the cards.....400-500 new members over last year doesnt make it easy

Sorry, I misunderstood your meaning once again

gypsy79

Rikand wrote: »

Sorry, I misunderstood your meaning once again

No worries....its a real weird one and I would need post his record to properly explain and that obviously is a no no

redzerdrog

What is a low index ya are referring too?