Your New WHS Index

DuckSlice

token56 wrote: »

Last weekend I had an Index of 21.2, played a stableford Singles comp and I'll admit I played relatively well for once, scored 45 points and the next day I was down to 8.5. It is just a result of me not having enough cards in but it was pretty shocking. A lot of laughs around the club the next day I was out, the biggest cut in history, definitely made a name for myself.

Now there is no way I'm a single figure golfer which is going to mean I am just not going to be able to score well in any comps for a while and with how often I can play I am probably going to have to submit some casual rounds for my Index to average out. So for new golfers being able to submit casual rounds is important I think but I can see how it can easily be abused.

Look on the Brightside, most golfers goal is to get to a single figure handicap, you got there in one round. Well done :p:D

cjfitz

prawnsambo wrote: »

That's in his last 20. What about in the last 12 months?

Playing HC is now 6 higher than July 2020.

Index is over 5 higher.

token56

DuckSlice wrote: »

Look on the Brightside, most golfers goal is to get to a single figure handicap, you got there in one round. Well done :p:D

Oh you can be sure I've taken a screenshot :D

Wombatman

token56 wrote: »

Last weekend I had an Index of 21.2, played a stableford Singles comp and I'll admit I played relatively well for once, scored 45 points and the next day I was down to 8.5. It is just a result of me not having enough cards in but it was pretty shocking. A lot of laughs around the club the next day I was out, the biggest cut in history, definitely made a name for myself.

Now there is no way I'm a single figure golfer which is going to mean I am just not going to be able to score well in any comps for a while and with how often I can play I am probably going to have to submit some casual rounds for my Index to average out. So for new golfers being able to submit casual rounds is important I think but I can see how it can easily be abused.

Have a look here on how scores are counted when you have less than 20 rounds.

https://www.randa.org/Rules-of-Handicapping/2019/Rules/The-Rules-of-Handicapping/Rule-5

big_drive

Another question for those in tune with the system

A complete new player joins club, he plays 3 rounds to get a handicap.

So suppose for arguments sake he's given 14

Do the 3 cards he submitted for getting the initial handicap go onto his golf Ireland scores or does it start at the point when the handicap commences?

In other words he plays his first competition in the club off his new handicap, is that counted as round 1 or round 4 ?

Hope I'm explaining myself properly, just a friend is taking up the game and I wasn't actually sure when trying to explain

gypsy79

big_drive wrote: »

Another question for those in tune with the system

A complete new player joins club, he plays 3 rounds to get a handicap.

So suppose for arguments sake he's given 14

Do the 3 cards he submitted for getting the initial handicap go onto his golf Ireland scores or does it start at the point when the handicap commences?

In other words he plays his first competition in the club off his new handicap, is that counted as round 1 or round 4 ?

Hope I'm explaining myself properly, just a friend is taking up the game and I wasn't actually sure when trying to explain

I think They should count but in examples I have seen they started from after handicap.

Newer member after starting they have counted

hurleronditch

gypsy79 wrote: »

I think They should count but in examples I have seen they started from after handicap.

Newer member after starting they have counted

For me they started afterwards. My 3 card rounds are nowhere to be seen on my GI.

I assume this is because your opening handicap isn’t always compiled in line with the WHS. My opening index was several shots lower than my cards. If my cards were on my GI they would corrupt what the handicap sec seemed was a fair opening handicap

big_drive

gypsy79 wrote: »

I think They should count but in examples I have seen they started from after handicap.

Newer member after starting they have counted

If that was case that they didn't count the 3 rounds used to calculate handicap then the player wouldn't move until his 3rd competition round?

Am I right on that ? Based on the link above 3 rounds must be on record to see a change

Which is an issue too.
Because if player given 14 in my example has 40 points in his first competition his handicap will still be 14 for competition number 2 ?

big_drive

hurleronditch wrote: »

For me they started afterwards. My 3 card rounds are nowhere to be seen on my GI.

I assume this is because your opening handicap isn’t always compiled in line with the WHS. My opening index was several shots lower than my cards. If my cards were on my GI they would corrupt what the handicap sec seemed was a fair opening handicap

Ok. So your handicap couldnt move so could it until you'd 3 competitions played?

Rikand

I hope we havent been doing it wrong but we have included the opening 3 cards in the members reckoning for handicap

big_drive

Rikand wrote: »

I hope we havent been doing it wrong but we have included the opening 3 cards in the members reckoning for handicap

I think you'd have to because otherwise the handicap won't move until another 3 cards get added to Golf Ireland

gypsy79

big_drive wrote: »

I think you'd have to because otherwise the handicap won't move until another 3 cards get added to Golf Ireland

That might explain something I seen but is contradicted by another example

I have two players who were given 19 as their handicap last year

One guy shot 43 points in a home comp and was moved to 11.4 immediately

The other guy has shot 48 points and 41 points at `big away clubs' and his handicap hasnt moved from 19

prawnsambo

hurleronditch wrote: »

For me they started afterwards. My 3 card rounds are nowhere to be seen on my GI.

I assume this is because your opening handicap isn’t always compiled in line with the WHS. My opening index was several shots lower than my cards. If my cards were on my GI they would corrupt what the handicap sec seemed was a fair opening handicap

Three card handicap rounds compiled and lodged before WHS won't appear on your GI record because they were never recorded on GolfNet. So there are no details like tees played, hole scores etc. The handicaps were carried forward as handicap indexes without any adjustment.

Handicap cards submitted after WHS will appear on your record since all details were uploaded to the WHS portal and will form part of your handicap record.

slingerz

Is it 2 or 5 shots the most you can increase in the new system?

prawnsambo

slingerz wrote: »

Is it 2 or 5 shots the most you can increase in the new system?

Five. At three above your lowest any increment is halved. It's not really shots since it's your index that's affected and shots depend on the course and tees you're playing.

DuckSlice

I was playing a vs Par comp yesterday. My index is 8.6 so playing handicap for course is 9. But for this comp I was off 10, is there different calculation for a vs Par comp to normal?

Seve OB

DuckSlice wrote: »

I was playing a vs Par comp yesterday. My index is 8.6 so playing handicap for course is 9. But for this comp I was off 10, is there different calculation for a vs Par comp to normal?

where did you get the 9 from?

Mantis Toboggan

DuckSlice wrote: »

I was playing a vs Par comp yesterday. My index is 8.6 so playing handicap for course is 9. But for this comp I was off 10, is there different calculation for a vs Par comp to normal?

Isn't stableford 90% of handicap? Think for vpar it's 100%.

DuckSlice

Seve OB wrote: »

where did you get the 9 from?

Thats whats on the chart in the clubhouse, 8.5-9.4 playing handicap is 9. Slope is 112.

gypsy79

DuckSlice wrote: »

Thats whats on the chart in the clubhouse, 8.5-9.4 playing handicap is 9. Slope is 112.

Corballis??

If so you may have been off Blue? But I just checked and its 112 off blue

And that is course handicap, which in this case (under 11) equals playing handicap

prawnsambo

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Isn't stableford 90% of handicap? Think for vpar it's 100%.

All singles formats are 95% of course handicap. That includes V-Par.

DuckSlice

Results were posted and it says on it to account for competitors playing from different tees. we only have one set of tees so someone obviously hit the wrong setting on the comp.

coillcam

prawnsambo wrote: »

All singles formats are 95% of course handicap. That includes V-Par.

Played my first comp under the new rules yesterday and was wondering why I lost a shot for my playing HC. The 95% rule it was so.

As an aside a lad in my group shot +1 gross off 8 with 4 birdies for 43 points. Lost out on a count back. Was sure he had it in the bag. He was cut to 6 overnight.

prawnsambo

coillcam wrote: »

Played my first comp under the new rules yesterday and was wondering why I lost a shot for my playing HC. The 95% rule it was so.

As an aside a lad in my group shot +1 gross off 8 with 4 birdies for 43 points. Lost out on a count back. Was sure he had it in the bag. He was cut to 6 overnight.

Unfortunately with the new system, this actually doesn't tell us anything.

Like 6 could be his handicap index and 8 being his playing handicap could be the same thing depending on the slope rating of the course. So it mightn't be a cut at all.

Say his index was 6.4 and the slope rating of the course was 133. Then his course and playing handicap would be 8. (95% of 8 is still 8).

paulos53

How are clubs handling No Returns this year for WHS?

25-30% of our entries are No Returns each weekend and they all get the maximum score applied to their handicap record. I can see this leading to massive inflation in handicaps and winning scores.

I played with a guy recently with 12 NRs in his last 20 rounds. 1 more would see his handicap index immediately increase by 3 or 4 shots

prawnsambo

paulos53 wrote: »

How are clubs handling No Returns this year for WHS?

25-30% of our entries are No Returns each weekend and they all get the maximum score applied to their handicap record. I can see this leading to massive inflation in handicaps and winning scores.

I played with a guy recently with 12 NRs in his last 20 rounds. 1 more would see his handicap index immediately increase by 3 or 4 shots

I attended a webinar on handicapping by Golf Ireland and it was mooted that NRs would be penalised one on the person's handicap index. The point being made that there's no reason for them with so many ways to record a counting score. Certainly I would be looking at somebody with that many NRs with a severely jaundiced eye. It would definitely bring on a meeting and a penalty would likely be proposed.

coillcam

prawnsambo wrote: »

Unfortunately with the new system, this actually doesn't tell us anything.

Like 6 could be his handicap index and 8 being his playing handicap could be the same thing depending on the slope rating of the course. So it mightn't be a cut at all.

Say his index was 6.4 and the slope rating of the course was 133. Then his course and playing handicap would be 8. (95% of 8 is still 8).

You're spot on here, I never checked his actual profile on Golf Ireland until you mentioned this. He was 6.7 WHS before the round and now is 6.0 afterwards. So there wasn't as much of a cut at all. I'll eventually get my head around this.

coillcam

paulos53 wrote: »

How are clubs handling No Returns this year for WHS?

25-30% of our entries are No Returns each weekend and they all get the maximum score applied to their handicap record. I can see this leading to massive inflation in handicaps and winning scores.

I played with a guy recently with 12 NRs in his last 20 rounds. 1 more would see his handicap index immediately increase by 3 or 4 shots

prawnsambo wrote: »

I attended a webinar on handicapping by Golf Ireland and it was mooted that NRs would be penalised one on the person's handicap index. The point being made that there's no reason for them with so many ways to record a counting score. Certainly I would be looking at somebody with that many NRs with a severely jaundiced eye. It would definitely bring on a meeting and a penalty would likely be proposed.

NR's were rampant last year in my limited experience. A few players, in particular, were desperate to cling to single figures. I distinctly remember a comp last year, where after 6 or 7 holes I was told not to bother recording my markers score. He said wasn't going to submit a card. There was always a collection of no scores at the bottom of the results field. Seems to be less in the few comps I've looked at so far.

DuckSlice

Do NR's have any effect on the PCC? or is the PCC a manual adjustment of the course rating on that day? Any competition i have played in hasnt had a PCC set on it this year even though one of them was played in a 2 club wind.

prawnsambo

DuckSlice wrote: »

Do NR's have any effect on the PCC? or is the PCC a manual adjustment of the course rating on that day? Any competition i have played in hasnt had a PCC set on it this year even though one of them was played in a 2 club wind.

No, the PCC doesn't seem to take NRs into account. It's based on "all eligible scores". Same here for PCCs. Haven't seen one this year.

There's a decent enough explanation of how it works on the R&A website.