Your New WHS Index

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222371#Comment_118222371

That ‘level out’ term is something I’m a little bit sick of already tbh. There’ll always be manipulation to the system no matter what.

spacecoyote

Yeah, I think the nature of Irish golf is a tricky fit to a system that is easier to manipulate.

In America they play considerably more casual golf, where the stakes are likely a couple of dollars with your mates. You likely see more ego handicaps, so the system being worked for people to play off artificially low handicaps.

In Ireland we play almost entirely competitive golf where there are prizes, and sometimes significant ones on offer. It just opens the door to manipulation and greed.

There are plenty of genuinely high guys, I have relatives that are examples of it.

But a system that's allowing 5 shots up in a year when there was previously uproar about a 2 shot rise is going to take a lot more than just "levelling off"

valc

Do handicap adjustments as part of the Annual Handicap Review take effect immediately, or from January 1st 2022?

Pre WHS, they took effect on the following Jan 1st

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118245838#Comment_118245838

They should take effect immediately. However, any adjustment should be notified to the member for appeal before being applied. That will usually take a week or so. Golf Ireland have asked that they all be applied before December 15th and at the very latest, December 31st.

Bixler3

Can anyone tell me if you round your course handicap prior to applying the 95% for a singles comp to get your playing handicap?

The only article I could find on the matter was from Scottish Golf which said that you do NOT round the course handicap before applying the 95% whereas my own handicap secretary maintains that you do the intermediate rounding. This results in one shot less on my playing handicap if applied.

Apologies if this has been covered b4.

Thanks in advance.

PabloAndRoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278467#Comment_118278467

Im 95% sure that you round for both CH & again for PH.

gypsy79

So , annual review time and my one is absolutely ridiculous. Started to year at 18.9 as played a few rounds with an injury and had slipped from low index during summer 16.8

Continued to play the worst golf of my career till end of July and went further up to 20.7. Now I start playing some decent stuff and get myself back down to 17.0

Found out Friday that I am getting a shot back in the review based on my terrible form pre July. I had 7 rounds tagged as been significant high. One was since my turnaround when Maccreddin destroyed me. Surely the system isnt right??

RGS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278833#Comment_118278833

you can ask your handicap secretary to retain your current handicap index and not give you the new index.

in fairness to your handicap secretary he probably carried out the review using the reports available on the golf ireland portal and he felt you warranted the increase.

have a word im sure he will listen and accede to your request to stay where you are.

blue note

I didn't think people would get shots back like that with the new system. When would you lose the shot? As in would your handicap be the average of your best 8 rounds plus 1? And when would you lose that plus one?

I'm wondering now if I could be due something back. My last time breaking 36 points in competition was Jan 2020 with a 39 pointer. In 15 attempts since I've only broken 30 5 times. I've already gotten 5 shots back since that 39 point day, but I could do with more!

Rikand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118279698#Comment_118279698

if you feel you're due an increase, bring it to the attention of the handicap sec, but tbh, if he's even half assing his job he should be able to see that you need an increase

CFG92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278467#Comment_118278467

Yes, it's definitely double rounding in Ireland. It's slightly different in Scotland where they are using the exact CH x 95%.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118279698#Comment_118279698

Yeah, you can get shots back. But it's under pretty specific circumstances and anything 5 and up requires approval from GI.

All adjustments stay on your record for 20 counting rounds. But it kind of 'slides' off. So if you had a minus one adjustment today, each of your last 20 score differentials would have that adjustment applied. After you play another counting round, that one does not have the adjustment applied and you now have 19. And so on. So the effect of the adjustment slowly changes as counting rounds are logged until it disappears completely.

blue note

That sounds like a sensible way to do it. I'm not convinced there's a need for it though when your handicap can change relatively quickly anyway. Under the old system with a max increase of 1, and increases of just .1 at a time there was certainly a need. Now - if you're playing bad golf your handicap will show it pretty quickly.

But if it's for specific circumstances, I'm guessing it won't be common like it was under the old system.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118283392#Comment_118283392

Exactly. There are a few ways it can happen. You get flagged members where they have a certain number of high or low scores that cross a threshold (complicated formula involved) and these could require an adjustment. Then there are people who have maybe played a lot of matchplay and consequently not have a full playing record in comps or GP. You could include other non-counting formats that you have data for as well.

Then there are other issues like an obvious discrepancy between Comp and GP scores. Or the same with minor and major comp scores. You get the idea. 😁.

But generally the system looks after itself and it's only outliers you're looking for.

Scott Tenorman

Is it still possible to get an ESR in the winter with this new system?

I’ve played 2 nine hole member comps with placing everywhere and won both. Would the handicap secretary cut me for that?

(just for clarity I WANT to be cut as my ambition is to get as low as I can)

spacecoyote

They could make an observation cut, I assume, based on high scoring, but presumably nothing would happen automatically through the system, given its non qualifying conditions.

If you feel you merit a cut, you could try make direct contact with your Handicap Sec?

Ivefoundgod

I'd imagine it varies by club but what our secretary is doing is taking a shot off anyone who wins the a winter comp for the duration of them. Theres not many singles comps but basically if you win one and your handicap is 10, the next singles comp you're h'dcap is 9. Reverts to normal WHS index once qualifying returns. I assume if you won multiple they would look at a reduction to your WHS as well.

spacecoyote

Yeah, we do a 1 stroke winter cut in our place for a weekly win. Reverts back once qualifying finished up

Scott Tenorman

Thanks lads I’ll see what happens 👍

billy3sheets

We are applying ESR cuts through the winter to WHS, even though course is non-qualifying. We are applying our own judgement based on the level of scoring in the competitions and a golfer has to feature 3 times. GI want to have handicap assessment year round based on demonstrated ability.

However, we are likely putting ourselves at a disadvantage to clubs which are applying temporary non-WHS cuts as a result.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118453098#Comment_118453098

Not a bad idea. I find the non-qualifying season to be a time of great miracles and unprecedented curing of bad form. 😄

big_drive

Quick question, a friend has 18 scores on his WHS record.

So under low index it says Pending.

So when he gets another two cards played he'll have 20 scores. Will low index be whatever was the lowest handicap in those 20 rounds? Or does something else come into the calculation

billy3sheets

Yes.

A Low Handicap Index is established once a player has at least 20 acceptable scores in their scoring record.

https://www.randa.org/en/rules-of-handicapping/2019/rules/the-rules-of-handicapping/rule-5

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118551087#Comment_118551087

It also has to be in the last twelve months. Normally that's the case when you're sub 20 rounds anyway, but not always.

Frisbee

What's the best way of getting your hands on your handicap certificate?

I am in the process of moving clubs and the new club have asked for a copy of my handicap certificate. I assumed I would be able to just download this from my Golf Ireland profile but I can't see an option anywhere.

Sync

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893486#Comment_118893486

Do you have a howdidido login? If so, login there, click your handicap on the top right and the 2nd tab has a certificate option.

Frisbee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893542#Comment_118893542

Yeah I tried that but it said the cert wasn't available online. I got onto my club anyway and they are going to e-mail one out to me.

whizbang

Anyone know what the new 'penalty' is (or is going to be) for not returning a score for a declared round ?

Playing very poorly at the mo, and I dont want handicap going up any more, i fear they will probably give me 0.1 back.

Golfgraffix

It won’t be a .1 like in the old system it will be a full score for 18 holes, it will effect your handicap like a normal round.

They will decide if it’s a low or high score depending on what they think the intend was for not returning your score.

blue note

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896540#Comment_118896540

I don't understand the mindset. I want a low handicap because it's the only real measure of how good you are. Nothing about potential or he hits his irons very well - handicap is based on your scores.

I don't like my handicap going up because it means I'm playing bad golf. But if I'm playing bad golf and it doesn't go up because I'm not putting in cards then I'm just kidding myself.