Your New WHS Index

Salvadoor

Those Charleville scores are more proof that WHS isn't fit for purpose. This thread is full of evidence of it yet some people are still defending WHS

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119540652#Comment_119540652

Agreed - and that absolute shite line of ‘it’ll take time, but when handicaps even out over 20 rounds it’ll be good’

No.

People ALWAYS find a way

PARlance

Not a president's prize but our biggest comp outside Captains or Presidents.

50 points won it... On countback.

50,50,49,48,46 were the top 5.

21 golfers had 40 points or better.

I think the guy in second lost 16 shots or something like that due to him only having a few cards in recent years.

I wouldn't be pointing the bandit finger at any of them. There's just too much variance with the new system and initial HCs are too high.

(I don't think we should be posting names even if it's technically public knowledge, just doesn't seem right)

Was playing well recently and turned with 20 points, playing partner said you're 2 ahead, I told him I'm probably 4 behind... It'll take a lot to get out of the level 2's mindset.

I had hoped that the crazy scores in our place would gradually get more realistic as the new system "bedded in".

FixdePitchmark

Them score are truly epic PARlance ...lol

50 ....on countback...

If that is the craic , what is point of prizes and comp entry....

Jason_Arch

Can people not see a pattern with these high scores? They all appear to be going up by the same rate. I would guess that the lowest 10 scores in these sorts of competitions have also increased by the same margin. Maybe the handicap indexes that people have isn't the real problem, maybe some courses aren't as difficult for the average golfer as the slope ratings would suggest.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119540843#Comment_119540843

Lost on countback AND got cut 16 shots Fix 🤣

It's very frustrating and there's a growing sense of frustration in the club. I've nearly got to the acceptance stage myself.

Course was playing easy... Or general summer conditions. The guy in 4th (48 points) was actually a low guy, off 4.

1 eagle, 7 birdies, 9 pars and a bogey... 48 points off 4. He thought he had it in the bag after the round of his life. Picture his face when he was told he didn't make the prizes/top 3.

Mantis Toboggan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119540798#Comment_119540798

Problem here is allowing the guy who finished second with 50 points to be eligible to win the big competition despite only handing in a few cards in the last few years. Should be 20 minimum before being eligible.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119540905#Comment_119540905

Agreed and that is covered in the majors, but not in general weekend comps.

Mantis Toboggan

Our club hasn't had too many crazy scores especially this year, I'd say on average the winning score has increased by about 1. Last weekend winner shot 93 for 47 points, had a look on golf Ireland and for his 40 ish rounds on GI he never once broke 100.

There's a few things that can help improve the situation. Category prizes. 20 scores required to win an overall comp. Strong handicap secretary.

During covid our membership increased by almost 200. Average age probably 35, coming into a club where average age is probably 60. These younger where coming from other sports and had big scope for improvement which drove the scores and results seemed a little skewed. Thankfully things have settled down now but the strong handicap secretary is vital to keep things in check.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119540948#Comment_119540948

Is your HC Sec active? Ours tried his best at the start but I think he has probably given up to a certain extent at this stage. Any cuts applied by the HC Sec can be quickly reversed with the new system.

We had a similar influx during covid and most people accepted scores would be a bit nuts as a result but we had hoped they would have settled down by now.

The winner of that comp with 50 point shot 107, was playing off HC 49. It's hard to keep interested in weekend comps with that.

Mantis Toboggan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119540974#Comment_119540974

He's quite active but impossible to tell how much. Prizes aren't hectic with us and I think that's a good thing, bigger comps are always strokes which will favor the lower handicaps.

I'd like to see a handicap max of 36, I think that's fair even for the older lads. I'd have no problem with lads in their 70's plus or with injuries to play off the women's tees.

DuckSlice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119540798#Comment_119540798

Jesus that is mental scoring, i know your course wouldn't be considered the hardest but my god!

As far as i can see with this new system there is nothing that can be done to combat this. AS Parlance said, once someone gets a cut they can easily put in their next 20 scores to get rid of the cut/penalty.

Its far too easy to manipulate, and unless you can prove someone is purposely playing bad, then any cut outside of competition could be easily appealed.

FixdePitchmark

Ho could anyone ever win anything with 107 strokes....

finglashoop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541243#Comment_119541243

how do you compete with it.

i assume you cant have a medal for each division every month

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541243#Comment_119541243

Guy in 1st: 3 pars, 2 bogeys, 7 doubles, 5 triples and a quad.

Guy in 4th: 1 eagle, 7 birdies, 9 pars and a bogey.

I'm the same as yourself, those two golfers shouldn't be in the same competition. Maybe that's just the way most amateur golf is and always has been, but it's not sport as I'm used to it.

DuckSlice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541275#Comment_119541275

You can't, its the death of competitions as far as I can see. I keep entering but I'm just going out playing against myself really. I know i wont win a comp.

Winter Leagues will see the biggest impact I think. They are non counting so the cheats will be all out to win, but I think entries will be really low this year.

bakerbhoy

Under Congu in it's last guise , we could only get 1.0 increase max in season.

Something similar needs to be Introduced. Give relevance to H/Sec again.

Currently GI couldn't care less about supporting any club sec trying to reel in wild h/caps.

finglashoop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541377#Comment_119541377

last medal off 13 i was 6 over on the 16 and knew i was nowhere near a winning score so I went for it.

triple -double-bogey for a net 69

winner nett 59.

FixdePitchmark

I love a guy who genuinely trys hard and improves and the big numbers in golf to break ...are 100, 90 , 80 , 70 , 60 .

If we are at a stage you can win with > 100 strokes I give up.

I keep saying it (and I'm not massively into myself) but the competition side of golf in Ireland is a massive part of the club scene - seriously mess with that and you are heading for real trouble.

Lads winning golf competitions with > 100 are not really into golf or able to play..if you are creating a system to cater for them - watch how that goes for you...

DuckSlice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541448#Comment_119541448

You needed to shoot the round of your life! i have been in similar situations. Went around in +1, which was 43pts at the time. My best round ever. only to be pipped by a plus 30HC with 47 points.

finglashoop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541491#Comment_119541491

yep. or i could have kept on and parred all three and had no chance of winning. winner off 12 - 7 birdies for a 1 over round of 71.

Seve OB

I think I need to post some figures to give some balance

I'm a member of 2 clubs. My handicap has ballooned as a result of WHS and playing absolute tripe. Some might say I'm a bandit lol, but my scores unfortunately don't reflect that. So for EG, I was playing last week off 17 in Captains prize in club B. 3 years ago I was off 10 (lowest ever, but have been a steady 12 for many years) and could put a score together off that number. So just to confirm my bandit status, I shot 74 in first round of Captains and another 75 in second round for a grand total of +5 Nett..... off 17, so yea my game is dirt.

Anyway Club B captains, 2 rounds strokes (par 72)

Winner (11) 142

Second (10) 142

Third (14) 144

Fourth (6) 144

Gross(+5) 143....... he still beat me 😀

Presidents was won with 44 points (10)

Second 43 points (11)

I have scanned results for this year and can only see 2 scores of 44 and 3 of 43 points (or equivalent in strokes). the rest of the winners are roughly between 39 & 41 with some coming in lower. So based on above with the best scores coming from lower handicaps its most definitely not happening everywhere. The only crazy thing is that I won my class with a gross +5 🤑

My home club is similar in general, but a few higher scores every so often. (it's apparently an easier course according to slope, its short, but tight... i find it a good bit harder though)

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541435#Comment_119541435

it really is that simple. they are happy to cap increase, but 5 shots is a pretty lame attempt at a cap.

Rikand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119540897#Comment_119540897

Please tell me he won the gross ?

Please tell me a big club likes yours offers a gross prize!

I won the gross at the weekend myself. Its a great incentive for the lower golfers to at least have some prize to play for.

Seve OB

i've said it before.

Your handicap record goes back 3 years. Hard cap of 3 shots above your lowest index on your 3 year record. might not solve the problem, but it won't be far off what we had before.

and to take it a step further, could look at say best 8 of last 30 rounds or best 5 of 20 .... ie tighten the net

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541597#Comment_119541597

We only do gross for the majors. We have (thankfully) introduced categories this year so he got Cat 1. So he did make a prize contrary to my earlier post.

Well done on the win!

OEP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119540652#Comment_119540652

You can't come to a conclusion based on handpicked results.

Here's my club's President's Prize day 1

1st (16) 68

2nd (02) 69

3rd (24) 70

4th (0) 71

5th (05) 71

It needs to be looked at on a countrywide level, not individual clubs.

DuckSlice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541616#Comment_119541616

I agree, they need to go back further than the last 12 months for your lowest index. I'm in a bad run of form at the moment, I'm about to drop 4 very good rounds. Going to go from 6.3 to 9.4 unless i shoot rounds of 34/35pts or better. Going from 6 to 9 in a few weeks, I'm sure I'll be classed as a bandit now even though its just the system. on the old system I would go to 6.7.

Rikand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541821#Comment_119541821

...... And still be struggling to play golf and possibly even start to become disillusioned with the game. Getting out to 9 might just give you some renewed confidence that you have shots to play with, some reduced pressure on your round and before you know it, start to get cuts again. I'm a big champion of the new system for things like this. Theres no better motivation for a genuine golfer than gaining a ton of shots, being mad at themsleves for it happening and refocusing their minds on the task at hand.

Mantis Toboggan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541994#Comment_119541994

100% I joined a harder course off 10 and didn't break 30 points for 3 years, almost gave up the game and was very few frustrating, now I'm off 16 and shooting some decent scores nothing amazing but I feel like I've a chance every week.