2020 All Ireland Senior Football Championship MOD NOTE POST #1

Strumms

Thing is... and it’s been said before about this Mayo team... we’ve lauded their abilities to go forward, attack and score... but they are certainly when in a defense mode.. are an awfully cynical team.. A lot of very tactical fouling .. once they went a load of points ahead.... and looking a little jaded towards the last 10 a sort of ‘protect our 45’ mindset... they were clever in that the fouling wasn’t in central areas of play... mostly at or outside the 45 and after they’d shepherded the opposition player in possession towards the sideline.. so not quite as much risk of either a card or the resulting free being pointed... a quick tug or grab ... just enough to kill the momentum... but foul play...

It serves to break up the impotence of opposition attacks, kill momentum, frustrate as well as give themselves a breather.....

Had the referee Gough been ok top of it, it would have made SFA difference to the result but it was probably an element of the games, and games the last couple of years that has disappointed me...

C__MC

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They'll have to or be crushed, game could be over in 15 minutes if they repeat that defensive performance.
I assume we will play with a sweeper for the final. Today was the most i have seen the team exposed in years. I think Boyle played that role a few years ago.

Mayo will raise it for the final like in 17, like kerry last year. Kick outs a huge worry no doubt.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

Thing is... and it’s been said before about this Mayo team... we’ve lauded their abilities to go forward, attack and score... but they are certainly when in a defense mode.. are an awfully cynical team.. A lot of very tactical fouling .. once they went a load of points ahead.... and looking a little jaded towards the last 10 a sort of ‘protect our 45’ mindset... they were clever in that the fouling wasn’t in central areas of play... mostly at or outside the 45 and after they’d shepherded the opposition player in possession towards the sideline.. so not quite as much risk of either a card or the resulting free being pointed... a quick tug or grab ... just enough to kill the momentum... but foul play...

It serves to break up the impotence of opposition attacks, kill momentum, frustrate as well as give themselves a breather.....

Had the referee Gough been ok top of it, it would have made SFA difference to the result but it was probably an element of the games, and games the last couple of years that has disappointed me...

Gee i wonder what team they learned that off ?? When you play Dublin enough, you pick up some of their tricks. At least they didn't drag half the outfield players to the ground for kickouts.

Strumms

Deleted User wrote: »

Gee i wonder what team they learned that off ?? When you play Dublin enough, you pick up some of their tricks. At least they didn't drag half the outfield players to the ground for kickouts.

I believe Mayo are self taught

Dyr

Deleted User wrote: »

Gee i wonder what team they learned that off ?? When you play Dublin enough, you pick up some of their tricks. At least they didn't drag half the outfield players to the ground for kickouts.

Are you still believing that fairy tale?

doc_17

All teams engage in cynical fouling and there’s no point in getting annoyed about it, it’s part of the game.

I think Mayo might do it. Maybe I’m mad, but Kerry nearly did last year. Who knows

dobman88

doc_17 wrote: »

All teams engage in cynical fouling and there’s no point in getting annoyed about it, it’s part of the game.

I think Mayo might do it. Maybe I’m mad, but Kerry nearly did last year. Who knows

It comes with the territory. Every team does it. Dublin are just better at it at the moment like they're better at everything all over the pitch. Mayo, Kerry, Donegal, Tyrone, all masters in their own right. To say your team doesnt do it is laughable. You do what you need to do to try and win.

Bonniedog

One thing that struck me about the match was that Clarke looks very unsure of himself. Mayo players often took up good positions 25/30 yards out but he invariable went for shorter passes that were then recycled. Tipp did reasonably well on long ones.

Clarke made a couple of excellent saves and wasn't the main culprit for the goals, but i wonder is there a self-perpetuating thing there with mutual lack of confidence between goalman and last line of defence? Which would also explain how they put themselves under pressure at the end against Galway.

cantwbr1

Bonniedog wrote: »

One thing that struck me about the match was that Clarke looks very unsure of himself. Mayo players often took up good positions 25/30 yards out but he invariable went for shorter passes that were then recycled. Tipp did reasonably well on long ones.

Clarke made a couple of excellent saves and wasn't the main culprit for the goals, but i wonder is there a self-perpetuating thing there with mutual lack of confidence between goalman and last line of defence? Which would also explain how they put themselves under pressure at the end against Galway.

He was excellent stopping shots and on high balls into the square but once he had to kick the ball he was quite poor, either from the hand or for kick outs.

breezy1985

yop wrote: »

Good point by spillane.
Families and those FL staff.

As a frontline Limerick worker I'm with Pat for completely selfish reasons

seligehgit

Bonniedog wrote: »

One thing that struck me about the match was that Clarke looks very unsure of himself. Mayo players often took up good positions 25/30 yards out but he invariable went for shorter passes that were then recycled. Tipp did reasonably well on long ones.

Clarke made a couple of excellent saves and wasn't the main culprit for the goals, but i wonder is there a self-perpetuating thing there with mutual lack of confidence between goalman and last line of defence? Which would also explain how they put themselves under pressure at the end against Galway.

An area that has been an issue with Clarkie's kickouts for years Bonnie.

We have learned to make an uneasy peace with ourselves because of all his excellence in so many facets of his game.

Dublin obviously will target them unmercilessly.

Bonniedog

Mayo have two weeks to work on it. Easy for me to say from comfort of sofa but that hesitancy in hitting free men and opting for short passes just outside the zone to players with their backs to opposing players is potentially suicidal.

As indeed was exploited ruthlessly by Mayo the other end. Short kick outs centrally to players who will be swamped by large chaps is not a good stratgey and means you are defending from your own 21 in a lot of cases. Mayo have the physical strength to break through with even bad ball, as do Dublin but that tends to nullify itself when they meet.

PressRun

Bonniedog wrote: »

One thing that struck me about the match was that Clarke looks very unsure of himself. Mayo players often took up good positions 25/30 yards out but he invariable went for shorter passes that were then recycled. Tipp did reasonably well on long ones.

Clarke made a couple of excellent saves and wasn't the main culprit for the goals, but i wonder is there a self-perpetuating thing there with mutual lack of confidence between goalman and last line of defence? Which would also explain how they put themselves under pressure at the end against Galway.

He's an old-fashioned type of keeper tbh, maybe one of the last of his kind in the intercounty game. He cut his teeth in an era when focus on the kickout wasn't like what it is now and he's at a stage of his career where it just isn't going to be fixed. The kickout problems are offset by his command of the square and his shot stopping abilities. He has terrific aerial abilities, a great physical presence and has no problem taking man and ball if needs be, and has done so in important games.

His kickout would be a concern for me though. I think he takes too long to get the kickout away and often seems as though he doesn't know what option to take. The actual kicking style itself is very problematic too. It's very easy for the opposition to attack and Tipperary did today. I expect Dublin will be forcing him long as much as possible the next day too. I forsee him being put under fierce pressure, and Dublin will be backing themselves to win the key battles in the middle too, as we really don't have fielders in the realm of Fenton or McCarthy at present.

One thing for us though, I think our tackling was excellent today. We were putting in tackles up and down the field, trying to win turnovers everywhere. The intensity and work rate is still there, and the younger players seem to be in that mindset too, which is very encouraging.

Bonniedog

I would agree with last point. Horan has them playing to their strengths. Mayo this year remind me a bit of Limerick hurlers. They force the opposition into playing the game on their terms and in the parts of the field they are strong.

If you were to ask most hurling people they would identify the Limerick full back line and the Mayo full back lines as relative weak links. Stress being on relative! Indeed last year a lot of the talk was how the Kerry inside line would take Dublin's "weakest" line from 2 - 4.

A lot cleverer men than i will be pondering all of this for both finals!

C__MC

Last year the dublin press destroyed mayo in 10 relentless minutes by the Dubs
Dublin sat back last year and kept it tight it was 6-6 at half time, Dublin dont want to be drawn into an open game like 17, they will try and press mayo aggressively up the pitch
My worry for mayo is their rookies wont be up to dublins strength and fitness as the game progresses.
See the problem is if dublin hold Durcan, mc loughlin and o shea, mayo are in trouble. I think o Connor and Conroy can break even with fitzsimons and probably cooper. I still believe Keegan should push out on kilkenny.

PressRun

C__MC wrote: »

I still believe Keegan should push out on kilkenny.

Keegan has done well on Kilkenny in the past and I def wouldn't be putting him on Con again anyway, but we'll see. I still kinda feel like Durcan will end up on Kilkenny ultimately.

seligehgit

breezy1985 wrote: »

As a frontline Limerick worker I'm with Pat for completely selfish reasons

Me too lol.

All joking aside whilst I've sympathies for the players families and believe it is right and proper a relatively small family inner circle get a golden ticket.

All others a most definite no.

Peanut Butter Jelly

seligehgit wrote: »

Me too lol.

All joking aside whilst I've sympathies for the players families and believe it is right and proper a relatively small family inner circle get a golden ticket.

All others a most definite no.

Only question is where do you stop the circle?

Lets say (hypothetically) a player has a wife, two kids and two sisters. Do you bring the parents and sisters? What about the sister's spouses/partners? And if they've children of their own?

I just think it might be a bit messy

awaywithyou

Bonniedog wrote: »

I would agree with last point. Horan has them playing to their strengths. Mayo this year remind me a bit of Limerick hurlers. They force the opposition into playing the game on their terms and in the parts of the field they are strong.

If you were to ask most hurling people they would identify the Limerick full back line and the Mayo full back lines as relative weak links. Stress being on relative! Indeed last year a lot of the talk was how the Kerry inside line would take Dublin's "weakest" line from 2 - 4.

A lot cleverer men than i will be pondering all of this for both finals!

Dublin will win by at least 10points... prob closer to 20 tbh... how many goals should tipp have got today...?

breezy1985

seligehgit wrote: »

Me too lol.

All joking aside whilst I've sympathies for the players families and believe it is right and proper a relatively small family inner circle get a golden ticket.

All others a most definite no.

Agree. 2 people for everyone on the panel and an extra 10 non panel players per team is about an extra 120 people which is fine but no more than that

km79

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

Only question is where do you stop the circle?

Lets say (hypothetically) a player has a wife, two kids and two sisters. Do you bring the parents and sisters? What about the sister's spouses/partners? And if they've children of their own?

I just think it might be a bit messy

It’s probably easier on the players if it stays as it is

breezy1985

awaywithyou wrote: »

Dublin will win by at least 10points... prob closer to 20 tbh... how many goals should tipp have got today...?

Today's game should not be used as any sort of indicator for anything

awaywithyou

breezy1985 wrote: »

Today's game should not be used as any sort of indicator for anything

fair enough... while the 2nd half would not be much of a barometer.. the way Sweeney effortlessly held off Barrett for his goal chance early in the game should raise alarm bells... Mayo have alot of newcomers this year who have brought great energy and freshness to the team which after the hiding dished out by Dublin in last years semi-final was badly needed.... unfortunately for these younger guys they will not have come up against anything like this Dublin machine before... people will say that previous games between these 2 have been close.. and they have.. however, Dublin NEVER looked like losing any of them... in fact i think Dublin just did enuf to get themselves over the line and most of those games they could have won them a bit more comfortably... as they did last year.. the older Mayo guys are not the players they used to be most notably Keegan... I would ignore O'Connors haul today given the opposition... He wont be a matchwinner against Dublin.. never has been and never will... Dublin to win comfortably....

thebiggestjim

breezy1985 wrote: »

As a frontline Limerick worker I'm with Pat for completely selfish reasons

I think it was a great suggestion by Spillane. I reckon 500 tickets for each team's families and 2000 for FL workers from each county (hurling and football). 5000 attendees for each game. CP can easily handle that number safely.

Call it a Bloody Sunday memorial concession not to be repeated. Other sports will be cranky about it (and I am a big fan of a lot of sports on this rock), but a line in the sand needs to be drawn.

I am sure our FL workers deserve a gesture like this. I don't fall in any of the above categories and I would love to see some deserving people at both All Ireland Finals.

C__MC

awaywithyou wrote: »

fair enough... while the 2nd half would not be much of a barometer.. the way Sweeney effortlessly held off Barrett for his goal chance early in the game should raise alarm bells... Mayo have alot of newcomers this year who have brought great energy and freshness to the team which after the hiding dished out by Dublin in last years semi-final was badly needed.... unfortunately for these younger guys they will not have come up against anything like this Dublin machine before... people will say that previous games between these 2 have been close.. and they have.. however, Dublin NEVER looked like losing any of them... in fact i think Dublin just did enuf to get themselves over the line and most of those games they could have won them a bit more comfortably... as they did last year.. the older Mayo guys are not the players they used to be most notably Keegan... I would ignore O'Connors haul today given the opposition... He wont be a matchwinner against Dublin.. never has been and never will... Dublin to win comfortably....

In a way you are probably right but mayo seem to be a real sticky team for dublin.

Dublin for large parts were the better team in 2013 in a scrappy game, mayo came back late on but Dublin I think only had twelve players who were match fit in the last five, dublin deserved it no doubt

In 2015, Dublin blew a big lead in the semi and mayo salvaged a draw but dublin won the reply quite easily

In 2016, the drawn game, mayo were the better team in a scrappy game but Dublin had been three up going into injury time and only Connolly put the ball dead the game was done
The reply Dublin were the better team but failed to put mayo away, they missed some bad chances before mayo clawed it back to a point

2017, the game could have went either way. O Connor hit the post late on, the red card by Vaughan, Dohertys weak goal shot, for me that is the one mayo left behind

2019, dublin were comfortable winners

C__MC

thebiggestjim wrote: »

I think it was a great suggestion by Spillane. I reckon 500 tickets for each team's families and 2000 for FL workers from each county (hurling and football). 5000 attendees for each game. CP can easily handle that number safely.

Call it a Bloody Sunday memorial concession not to be repeated. Other sports will be cranky about it (and I am a big fan of a lot of sports on this rock), but a line in the sand needs to be drawn.

I am sure our FL workers deserve a gesture like this. I don't fall in any of the above categories and I would love to see some deserving people at both All Ireland Finals.

I'd like to see it but doubt it will happen
The county final celebrations were a black mark on the GAA, given its Waterford and mayo in the final, they have to thread carefully

TCDStudent1

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

Only question is where do you stop the circle?

Lets say (hypothetically) a player has a wife, two kids and two sisters. Do you bring the parents and sisters? What about the sister's spouses/partners? And if they've children of their own?

I just think it might be a bit messy

It would just lead to arguments and fights all over the place. Players have different sized families etc. It shouldn't be changed at this stage.

Peanut Butter Jelly

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

It would just lead to arguments and fights all over the place. Players have different sized families etc. It shouldn't be changed at this stage.

Yeah that would be my fear too. I think it's just best to go without any fans

Barlett

awaywithyou wrote: »

Dublin will win by at least 10points... prob closer to 20 tbh... how many goals should tipp have got today...?

‘Should’ never won any game - how many All Ireland’s ‘should’ Mayo have won, talking about what happened in a past game as a predictor of a future game is a complete waste of time. Mayo gave up one half goal chance to Galway last time out , this time they gave up 10 goal chances , talking about one thing like it’s definitely going to happen is nonsense. Sure when they played Tipp in 2016 the narrative afterwards was that Dublin would eat them alive .

Neeson

Croke park is bigger than some other pitches by what? A few centimeters? What a load of Bollix from Colm Cooper.