2020 All Ireland Senior Football Championship MOD NOTE POST #1

Bunny Colvin

Robson99 wrote: »

Mayo were lucky to beat a poor Galway team missing both Daly and Comer.
I think Tipp have a great chance. If they can nick a goal or two then the cat will really be among the pigeons

Didn't Tipp need a last minute sideline kick to force extra-time against the mighty Limerick? Limerick then should have levelled it up at the end but missed a sitter.
My point is, if you're going to anyalise teams by picking apart who they played then at least be consistent

Fr Tod Umptious

Coybig_ wrote: »

I don't contradict myself. Before we got ourselves into winning positions and didn't see it out. While a negative, obvious positives in putting ourselves in those positions in the first place, including v Mayo. My point though it that we now have done that. The victory over Cork will have given the team the boost that they needed - they didn't wilt and they can use that experience to drive them on. We now know that we are able to put away the bigger teams rather than just look back and say we blew it.

Sure we struggled past Limerick, but then again, we are supposed to be the massive underdog here. Mayo are supposed to be the sure thing, yet the poster above overlooked quite a lot in their performances and results over the last few years. Mayo don't have much to hang their hat on over the last 2 years, other than a league win which was followed by an instant relegation.

Their reputation is very much based on their accomplishments of years ago, not what has actually transpired on the pitch this year and last year.

So Mayo's form this year and last which includes championship wins over Down, Armagh, Galway (twice), Meath, Donegal, Leitrim and Roscommon should not count to Mayo's reputation where as Tipps win c Clare, digging out a win v Limerick and a win v a terrible Cork team does towards theirs ?

Coybig_

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So Mayo's form this year and last which includes championship wins over Down, Armagh, Galway (twice), Meath, Donegal, Leitrim and Roscommon should not count to Mayo's reputation where as Tipps win c Clare, digging out a win v Limerick and a win v a terrible Cork team does towards theirs ?

You can paint it whatever way you want.

It's completely clear that this Mayo team is way off the standard set by Mayo teams of old. It's just not an argument. 3 Championship defeats last year, relegated from the league this year. Didn't even make the Super 8's in 2018.

Fair play for pulling through games but many of them were extremely tight and could have gone either way, such as Armagh last year, Meath ran them close last year and the same Meath side got humiliated by Dublin this year. Lost by double figures to Kerry and Dublin last year which would have been unthinkable previously.

Mayo are supposed to be the clear favourite according to the poster I initially responded to, who claimed Mayo would win by "at least 6-10 points". I do not believe that to be an accurate statement based on their form over the last two years.

You go on about all the teams Mayo beat - yeah, clearly they are being counted to their reputation as evidenced by many in this thread who believe that they will win at a canter. However in the context of Mayo teams of previous years, in particular 2016-2017, many of those results and performances are not nearly of the same standard, they are not as good as they were and are there to be beaten.

naughto

Coybig_ wrote: »

If we get beaten by "at least 6-10 points" we may as well give it up altogether. Would be a terrible showing from us.

Our lads will have no fear of Mayo, especially having gotten the Cork win under our belt. Over the last few years in league and championship we have regularly put ourselves in positions to win and not been able to see it out.

Cork in the Championship 2017
Armagh in the qualifiers that year (not helped by disgraceful refereeing)
Roscommon and Cavan in the league (2018, when a win in either game would have seen us promoted to division 1)
Mayo in the Championship 2018.

I would say that we dominated Mayo for close to 3/4 of that 2018 game, and they got a fluke goal to draw level from being 3 down. They drove on as winners do and put us to the sword then, fair play.

You refer to Mayo's strength in the backs being able to hold us, I'd counter by saying that in 2018, Conor Sweeney regularly roamed to midfield as he was our best fielding option, leaving Quinlivan often alone inside (he got 1-2 from play too), however with O'Riordan in midfield we don't have to worry about that - Sweeney can concentrate on scoring.

We know that we can put it up to Mayo and actually take the initiative against them. We also know that we can come through a tough battle when we are underdogs and not wilt after putting ourselves in a great spot like against Cork.

Mayo being focused and consistent under Horan, the same argument more than applies to us under Power. We had completely lost our way under Liam Kerins, Power has worked wonders along with Paddy Christie. The belief is back.

And I take issue with Mayo being "more focused" under Horan too - beaten by Roscommon last year, neck and neck with Meath until the final few minutes, hammered by both All Ireland finalists, this year - relegated from division 1, and struggled past Galway.

Mayo are favourites and have an edge quality wise but if we were not still in it with 10 to play then I'd be massively disappointed. I think we can do it, I really do.

How good of a team where cork thought that's the question.there luck was in against kerry

corny

Mayo will be fierce as ever around the park but they really haven't converted that into pressure into scores. Too many scoring chances are being wasted. In fairness they've had to contend with strong winds in both games (Roscommon and Galway i mean) so maybe on a calm, dry day they'll show improvement. If they do they'll have far too much for Tipp. I'm praying they actually lay down some sort of marker. The Championship needs a continuance of the epics Mayo and Dublin served up in the last 5 years.

I'm taking it for granted that Dublin win. I have mighty respect for Cavan in how they've gone toe with toe with opponents and they weren't phased by the set backs in the game against Donegal. Really impressive. Even replicating that performance won't be enough to beat Dublin though.

RedDevil55

Coybig_ wrote: »

You can paint it whatever way you want.

It's completely clear that this Mayo team is way off the standard set by Mayo teams of old. It's just not an argument. 3 Championship defeats last year, relegated from the league this year. Didn't even make the Super 8's in 2018.

Fair play for pulling through games but many of them were extremely tight and could have gone either way, such as Armagh last year, Meath ran them close last year and the same Meath side got humiliated by Dublin this year. Lost by double figures to Kerry and Dublin last year which would have been unthinkable previously.

Mayo are supposed to be the clear favourite according to the poster I initially responded to, who claimed Mayo would win by "at least 6-10 points". I do not believe that to be an accurate statement based on their form over the last two years.

You go on about all the teams Mayo beat - yeah, clearly they are being counted to their reputation as evidenced by many in this thread who believe that they will win at a canter. However in the context of Mayo teams of previous years, in particular 2016-2017, many of those results and performances are not nearly of the same standard, they are not as good as they were and are there to be beaten.

I don't buy in to a 6-10 point win, but in 2016/17 Mayo lost to a division 2 Galway in Connacht and had several lucky wins in the qualifiers.

naughto

corny wrote: »

Mayo will be fierce as ever around the park but they really haven't converted that into pressure into scores. Too many scoring chances are being wasted. In fairness they've had to contend with strong winds in both games (Roscommon and Galway i mean) so maybe on a calm, dry day they'll show improvement. If they do they'll have far too much for Tipp. I'm praying they actually lay down some sort of marker. The Championship needs a continuance of the epics Mayo and Dublin served up in the last 5 years.

I'm taking it for granted that Dublin win. I have mighty respect for Cavan in how they've gone toe with toe with opponents and they weren't phased by the set backs in the game against Donegal. Really impressive. Even replicating that performance won't be enough to beat Dublin though.

A 1/2 point win will do me the hype train will be in overdrive if we give tip a hiding

Coybig_

And don't get me wrong - Mayo are obviously favourites for a reason, if both teams play to 100% Mayo are very probably better, however I think it's closer than people think - I think we have a big chance to beat them on Sunday, and my points are essentially that Mayo are not the same team as they were, and we have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain. If we lose to Mayo it's still a fantastic season. If Mayo lose to us, it's devastating for them. We won't fear them based on 2018, I'm sure the squad are sickened that they let a game that they were in full control of slip away.

If I have egg on my face you can feel free to remind me of all this on Sunday night but I think it will be far closer than the general public or the bookies think.

I don't see there being more than a point or two in it when the game enters the final 10 minutes. From there, who knows - maybe Mayo will have superior fitness and game knowledge/experience and drive it home. Hopefully the Cork win will stand to us and we will be a bit cuter than we have been in similar situations in the past.

corny

naughto wrote: »

A 1/2 point win will do me the hype train will be in overdrive if we give tip a hiding

I don't think that affects the players much though. Granted Mayo have a few inexperienced lads but they'll be grounded by Horan and the wider squad. Whatever they do they're good at ignoring the noise from outside the camp. Dublin are the same. Its almost professional.

Bunny Colvin

Coybig_ wrote: »

Mayo are not the same team as they were, and we have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain. If we lose to Mayo it's still a fantastic season. If Mayo lose to us, it's devastating for them

Believe me, nobody in Mayo would be devasted if we lost on Sunday. The feeling is Horan done well to win Connacht after bringing through some new players and phasing out some of the old guard. There's also the fact that there's the Dublin globetrotters waiting for whoever in the final.

Personally the way I look at it is, If we aren't good enough to beat Tipperary then we'd have no business playing Dublin and a hammering off them wouldn't do this team any good. Hopefully both teams throw off the shackles and we have an entertaining game. I still expect us to win by 5 or 6.

Fr Tod Umptious

naughto wrote: »

A 1/2 point win will do me the hype train will be in overdrive if we give tip a hiding

But what's wrong with giving Tipp a hiding ?
Did you not enjoy the hiding Mayo gave Roscommon in 2017 ?
Or the one they gave Donegal in 2013 ?

What's would be wrong with beating a Div 3 team out the gate ?

The margin of the victory (and I expect a victory) over Tipp is not going to change my opinion that Mayo are unlikely to beat Dublin in a final (if in fact Dublin win their game)

But neither is it going to dampen my enthusiasm for the final.

As Anthony Larry Finnerty said on a Newstalk show a number of years ago "fans should never apologize for getting excited about their team being in a final".

And as another poster already implied, there are too many wise old heads around the Mayo team to allow any type of hype to be a factor.

manofwisdom

corny wrote: »

Mayo will be fierce as ever around the park but they really haven't converted that into pressure into scores. Too many scoring chances are being wasted. In fairness they've had to contend with strong winds in both games (Roscommon and Galway i mean) so maybe on a calm, dry day they'll show improvement. If they do they'll have far too much for Tipp. I'm praying they actually lay down some sort of marker. The Championship needs a continuance of the epics Mayo and Dublin served up in the last 5 years.

I'm taking it for granted that Dublin win. I have mighty respect for Cavan in how they've gone toe with toe with opponents and they weren't phased by the set backs in the game against Donegal. Really impressive. Even replicating that performance won't be enough to beat Dublin though.

Wasn't strong winds in the Galway,Roscommon games that was Dessie Dolan talking nonsense.

Coillte_Bhoy

manofwisdom wrote: »

Wasn't strong winds in the Galway,Roscommon games that was Dessie Dolan talking nonsense.

Surely not :eek:

Barlett

Coybig_ wrote: »

And don't get me wrong - Mayo are obviously favourites for a reason, if both teams play to 100% Mayo are very probably better, however I think it's closer than people think - I think we have a big chance to beat them on Sunday, and my points are essentially that Mayo are not the same team as they were, and we have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain. If we lose to Mayo it's still a fantastic season. If Mayo lose to us, it's devastating for them. We won't fear them based on 2018, I'm sure the squad are sickened that they let a game that they were in full control of slip away.

If I have egg on my face you can feel free to remind me of all this on Sunday night but I think it will be far closer than the general public or the bookies think.

I don't see there being more than a point or two in it when the game enters the final 10 minutes. From there, who knows - maybe Mayo will have superior fitness and game knowledge/experience and drive it home. Hopefully the Cork win will stand to us and we will be a bit cuter than we have been in similar situations in the past.

Mayo are definitely a team in transition, anything from here on is bonus territory, any Mayo fan thinking different isn’t living in reality- they’re building with 21/22 seasons in mind.

Bonniedog

Coybig_ wrote: »

It's completely clear that this Mayo team is way off the standard set by Mayo teams of old. .

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I've seen their games against Roscommon and Galway, and apart from the head staggers at the end of the Connacht final, they were comfortable enough.

Horan has improved them i think and wouldn't put a huge deal of emphasis on the league. Look where the winners of it are now, or even the teams that won the other divisions. All of the top two in each exited almost at first stage other than Dublin.

Anyway, Mayo do have the same problems in front of the goals but have created a lot of chances.

Not dismissing Tipp's chance, but Mayo are still the only team likely to give Dublin a challenge and I've thought that from the start.

Mantis Toboggan

I'd fancy Mayo really to put it upto Dublin in the final.

Think there's a lot more pace and running in this team who should be able to go toe to toe with Dublin. Dublin have the better forwards so should still win by 4 or 5 but it will be their toughest game of the season.

Cavan_King

blowitupref wrote: »

Let's be honest most neutrals would have a lot more appetite for a Tipp v Cavan final than the appetite of watching Dublin winning 6 in a row.

Most expect Dublin to win its just a matter of who knows about the margin of victory. If Cavan throw themselves into the tackles like they did against Donegal it could be a competitive contest. If they give the Dubs time and room on the ball, admiring their play like Meath did in the Leinster final it will be over at half time.

Paul Pillar Caffrey gave a very interesting interview to the We Are Cavan football podcast. I don't want to reopen the debate re moving the game because it was never an issue CCB have said but Pillar, a former Dublin manager, said that Croke Park is worth 5-6 points to Dublin in most games in his opinion.

He also mentioned that a problem in his time managing Dublin was getting a false impression of a player from playing in Parnell Park in the League and that same player failing to perform in the bigger Croke Park, where the ball moves quicker, the pitch dimensions are larger and the weather was better due to it being Summer football. That isn't even an issue now as he correctly pointed out due to Dublin even playing their League gams in Croke Park.

He said in his opinion all Dublin games bar the Leinster final, All Ireland SF and AI Final should be outside of Croker Park to level the playing field a bit.

blowitupref

Reading between the lines of this Stephen Rochford expects an easy win for Mayo on Sunday. Hope he's wrong as all neutrals will be hoping to see at least one competitive semi final.

“I think the Mayo intensity and athleticism will be something I don’t think Tipp will have come across this year,”


“Tipperary have operated out of Division 3. I think Mayo will be saying they will ratchet up the intensity in this game. They are not going to give the space to Tipperary in the middle third to launch in those diagonal balls.

“That will nearly be their number one priority, that they will tear in and set the rules of engagement, lay down the marker.

“They have sprung a couple of new faces that have given them that energy. And I think they have a confidence about them that keeps you on the front foot and that’s the type of game they want to play.”

There’s a big intensity on their defensive stuff. I think they'll be comfortable giving Tipperary some short kickouts, to cut out the risk of Tipp dominating the middle of the field. But you'll see them ushering Tipp to the sidelines. They’ve done some basketball work and you’ll see them cutting off angles and trying to harry Tipperary into cul de sacs and blind alleys.

“And then the Paddy Durcans and Eoghan McLaughlin get onto turnover ball and the pitch just opens up in front of them.


“If Mayo start to strike and get a foothold in the middle of the field, a feature of James (Horan’s) time has been that real pace coming from defence. And it’s very hard for the big guys in the middle of the field for Tipperary to track those continuously.”

“I think Tipperary have an over-dependence on Conor Sweeney and Michael Quinlivan. The others need to share the load. They need to get the Kennedys coming in with a point or two. They need to get Brian Fox scoring, and he’s liable to get on the end of a move.

“On those defensive matchups, Mayo have more options. I think Paddy Durcan will start on Quinlivan. They’ll be keen to keep the full back-line as it is — I think Chris Barrett will pick up Sweeney.

“Mayo have flexibility to move the matchups if guys are struggling. If Tipp go with Quinlivan and Sweeney inside for a period of time, I think maybe you might see Lee (Keegan) picking up Quinlivan.”

Fr Tod Umptious

blowitupref wrote: »

Reading between the lines of this Stephen Rochford expects an easy win for Mayo on Sunday. Hope he's wrong as all neutrals will be hoping to see at least one competitive semi final.

“I think the Mayo intensity and athleticism will be something I don’t think Tipp will have come across this year,”


“Tipperary have operated out of Division 3. I think Mayo will be saying they will ratchet up the intensity in this game. They are not going to give the space to Tipperary in the middle third to launch in those diagonal balls.

“That will nearly be their number one priority, that they will tear in and set the rules of engagement, lay down the marker.

“They have sprung a couple of new faces that have given them that energy. And I think they have a confidence about them that keeps you on the front foot and that’s the type of game they want to play.”

There’s a big intensity on their defensive stuff. I think they'll be comfortable giving Tipperary some short kickouts, to cut out the risk of Tipp dominating the middle of the field. But you'll see them ushering Tipp to the sidelines. They’ve done some basketball work and you’ll see them cutting off angles and trying to harry Tipperary into cul de sacs and blind alleys.

“And then the Paddy Durcans and Eoghan McLaughlin get onto turnover ball and the pitch just opens up in front of them.


“If Mayo start to strike and get a foothold in the middle of the field, a feature of James (Horan’s) time has been that real pace coming from defence. And it’s very hard for the big guys in the middle of the field for Tipperary to track those continuously.”

“I think Tipperary have an over-dependence on Conor Sweeney and Michael Quinlivan. The others need to share the load. They need to get the Kennedys coming in with a point or two. They need to get Brian Fox scoring, and he’s liable to get on the end of a move.

“On those defensive matchups, Mayo have more options. I think Paddy Durcan will start on Quinlivan. They’ll be keen to keep the full back-line as it is — I think Chris Barrett will pick up Sweeney.

“Mayo have flexibility to move the matchups if guys are struggling. If Tipp go with Quinlivan and Sweeney inside for a period of time, I think maybe you might see Lee (Keegan) picking up Quinlivan.”

With the exception of the Tyrone league game Mayo have got off to good starts in their games since the return.

If they can do the same on Sunday they will be well on their way.

KIB4Life

blowitupref wrote: »

Reading between the lines of this Stephen Rochford expects an easy win for Mayo on Sunday. Hope he's wrong as all neutrals will be hoping to see at least one competitive semi final.

“I think the Mayo intensity and athleticism will be something I don’t think Tipp will have come across this year,”


“Tipperary have operated out of Division 3. I think Mayo will be saying they will ratchet up the intensity in this game. They are not going to give the space to Tipperary in the middle third to launch in those diagonal balls.

“That will nearly be their number one priority, that they will tear in and set the rules of engagement, lay down the marker.

“They have sprung a couple of new faces that have given them that energy. And I think they have a confidence about them that keeps you on the front foot and that’s the type of game they want to play.”

There’s a big intensity on their defensive stuff. I think they'll be comfortable giving Tipperary some short kickouts, to cut out the risk of Tipp dominating the middle of the field. But you'll see them ushering Tipp to the sidelines. They’ve done some basketball work and you’ll see them cutting off angles and trying to harry Tipperary into cul de sacs and blind alleys.

“And then the Paddy Durcans and Eoghan McLaughlin get onto turnover ball and the pitch just opens up in front of them.


“If Mayo start to strike and get a foothold in the middle of the field, a feature of James (Horan’s) time has been that real pace coming from defence. And it’s very hard for the big guys in the middle of the field for Tipperary to track those continuously.”

“I think Tipperary have an over-dependence on Conor Sweeney and Michael Quinlivan. The others need to share the load. They need to get the Kennedys coming in with a point or two. They need to get Brian Fox scoring, and he’s liable to get on the end of a move.

“On those defensive matchups, Mayo have more options. I think Paddy Durcan will start on Quinlivan. They’ll be keen to keep the full back-line as it is — I think Chris Barrett will pick up Sweeney.

“Mayo have flexibility to move the matchups if guys are struggling. If Tipp go with Quinlivan and Sweeney inside for a period of time, I think maybe you might see Lee (Keegan) picking up Quinlivan.”

I’m not sure where the confidence from Rochford is coming from Tipp gave Mayo plenty of it on both occasions that they have met when he was manager of Mayo. Tipp were in Division 3 in 2016 and they were well able for Mayo’s intensity that day, and considering he was part of a management team that were recently beat by a team that will be playing Division 3 football next year, he should know better that often league football has no impact on a Championship game and particularly a knockout championship football year like this that is played in the middle of the winter.

Mayo scrapped over the line against a Galway that were poor on the day and were very reliant on Shane Walsh and Paul Conroy. Quinlivan didn’t score against Clare and only scored a point against Limerick, but it obviously helps if he can perform like he did against Cork. These are the games that Mayo have struggled in the past especially when he was manager they were well able to put it up to Dublin, but when they were favourites they often limbed over the line.

I think Tipperary will actually go long with their kick outs I have seen Tipp’s three championship games and they seem to go long for a lot of their kick outs. Even if Mayo give them the option to kick it short, I can’t seem them going short too much and why would they when they have Steven O’Brien, Liam Casey, Colin O’Riordan and the Kennedy’s around the middle.

C__MC

Cant see mayo losing
11th semi since 2011, they are not as inconsistent as they were under rochford.
They'll have to much for tipp, physically and athletically
Whatever we think about 16 and 18, mayo still won both games comfortably enough.

crossman47

C__MC wrote: »

Cant see mayo losing
11th semi since 2011, they are not as inconsistent as they were under rochford.
They'll have to much for tipp, physically and athletically
Whatever we think about 16 and 18, mayo still won both games comfortably enough.

I don't know about that. I hope Mayo win but I could see them losing. They miss too many chances and so make every game uncomfortable.

Bonniedog

O'Rourke has tipped up Cavan to cover the 15 point spread. It's a foolish bet either way imho.

Hope they do make a match of it, but wouldn't care to be on spread either way.

tobefrank321

If Cavan come within 10 points of Dublin it will be a moral victory. Dublin to win by 15 points.

Mayo and Tipp will be a close game. Mayo might edge it but I'd love to see Tipp reach the final.

Either way Dublin to win the final easily.

Rasputin11

Colm O Rourke taking money off a bookmaker to give tips is pretty poor form for a school principal.

Bonniedog

Rasputin11 wrote: »

Colm O Rourke taking money off a bookmaker to give tips is pretty poor form for a school principal.

There is definitely an ethical aspect.

Bookies love all that spread stuff and first goalscorer and winning margins nonsense because they keep vast proportion of what is bet.

You don't get a county player who knows his onions on PP telling you to lump on a fancied team at a backable price

tanko

Rasputin11 wrote: »

Colm O Rourke taking money off a bookmaker to give tips is pretty poor form for a school principal.

He should have been booted out of RTE years ago, he just turns up after doing no research in the teams or players and waffles his way through.
How much would the likes of him be getting paid by RTE for that junket?

SomethingElse

Would Cavan not have some players left that played in the QF against Kerry in 2013?

tanko

SomethingElse wrote: »

Would Cavan not have some players left that played in the QF against Kerry in 2013?

Killian Clarke and Martin Reilly played in 2013 i think.
Jason McLoughlin played that day also.

doc_17

Agree about O’Rourke. Awful pundit. But promoting gambling? Is he doing commercials for them or is he just mentioning it in the “analysis”?