Don't fall foul of big industry propaganda.

auspicious

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h-9DPMEMZC4

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=111762163

Dravokivich

No link dumping. If you've something to say, please do so. Don't make other people try guess your issue. If you don't have anything expressed on this at some stage tomorrow, I'm going to close the thread.

auspicious

Milk has become such a persuasive product by the industry market targeting children or potential insecurities of parents. We never learned about other sources of calcium; the misconception that if we didn't drink milk we were missing something. But that's a tired selling point these days.
Essential part of a balanced diet! It was/is so ubiquitous it wasn't/isn't questioned. Through the power of advertising it has become so deeply ingrained.
The U.S. National Dairy Council recognizes that foods like kale, bok choy, and broccoli all have higher rates of calcium absorption than milk. 
Two tablespoons dried ground basil 220 mg of calcium, 1 cup milk 240mg.
Why don't we know this? Agricultural lobbyists. Government supporting agriculture; dietary guidelines, to date.
They're big business. Like any good business their bottom line is profit.

gozunda

auspicious wrote: »

Milk has become such a persuasive product by the industry market targeting children or potential insecurities of parents. We never learned about other sources of calcium; the misconception that if we didn't drink milk we were missing something. But that's a tired selling point these days.Essential part of a balanced diet! It was/is so ubiquitous it wasn't/isn't questioned. Through the power of advertising it has become so deeply ingrained. The U.S. National Dairy Council recognizes that foods like kale, bok choy, and broccoli all have higher rates of calcium absorption than milk. Two tablespoons dried ground basil 220 mg of calcium, 1 cup milk 240mg.Why don't we know this? Agricultural lobbyists. Government supporting agriculture; dietary guidelines, to date. They're big business. Like any good business their bottom line is profit.

Nah that's just advertising Auspicious. Its done for all products ' everything from nappies to insurance. Advertising from the 1950/60s is hilarious for just about everything tbh. But yes every product you buy is based on a return of profit. With the primary producer whether vegetable, dairy etc getting the smallest returns.

The fact is milk remains a recommended part of healthy balanced diet from professional medical bodies such as the NHS

Milk and dairy products, such as cheese and yoghurt, are great sources of protein and calcium. They can form part of a healthy, balanced diet.

They also recommend artificially fortified drinks such as soy which people can choose if they like.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/milk-and-dairy-nutrition/

auspicious

-Dairy foods have a bioavailablity of about 30% absorption so if a food label on milk lists 300 mg of calcium per cup, about 100 mg will be absorbed and used by the body. Plant foods like leafy greens contain less calcium overall but have a higher bioavailability than dairy. For example, bok choy contains about 160 mg of calcium per 1 cup cooked but has a higher bioavailability of 50%, so about 80 mg is absorbed. Therefore, eating 1 cup of cooked bok choy has almost as much bioavailable calcium as 1 cup of milk. Calcium-fortified orange juice and calcium-set tofu have a similar total amount of calcium and bioavailability as milk, while almonds have slightly lower total calcium and bioavailability of about 20%. This may be useful information for those who cannot eat dairy foods or who follow a vegan diet.

Dravokivich

Although in fairness I think things published by the likes of the NHS don't tend to get reviewed unless they come under some form of measured scrutiny. Do they still support/reference the food pyramid?

auspicious

Dravokivich wrote: »

Although in fairness I think things published by the likes of the NHS don't tend to get reviewed unless they come under some form of measured scrutiny. Do they still support/reference the food pyramid?

Of course they do. We never knew smoking was bad for us until science revealed it. If slaughterhouses had glass walls...

gozunda

Dravokivich wrote: »

Although in fairness I think things published by the likes of the NHS don't tend to get reviewed unless they come under some form of measured scrutiny. Do they still support/reference the food pyramid?

The NHS Guidelines for healthy eating and Nutrition primarily comes from the UK information Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition (SACN)

"SACN advises on nutrition and related health matters. It advises Public Health England (PHE) and other UK government organisations."

This is their terms of reference.

https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/scientific-advisory-committee-on-nutrition#terms-of-reference

As above their recommendations cover a range of diets including plant food diet options.

But yes dairy and related foods are recommend as part of a healthy balanced diet by the NHS, the HSE and others.

And no I dont think smoking was ever part of the food pyramid lol :pac:

I can understand people not wanting to consume a particular product but trying to infer that something is all big conspiracy or wtte is simply the stuff of hairy youtube videos tbf.

Edit. Sorry forgot to reference about the food pyramid etc. Had to look it up the reference.

The NHS use the "Food plate" Healthy Eating Guide to help make healthier eating easier.

Same advice as I've detailed above.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/the-eatwell-guide/

Dravokivich

auspicious wrote: »

Of course they do. We never knew smoking was bad for us until science revealed it. If slaughterhouses had glass walls...

They'd be harder to clean.

There's been issues with moderation here and as well as cleaning up the rough parts here, thought it might be worth while to try and engage with an open discussion, within the remit of this forum.

What is with the spin you've put into my commentary? While NHS can be used as a credible source, their published material will only be changed if it's discredited and shown to be harmful. Which is measurably not the case. I didn't post to suggest challenging it would be futile however. I posted to suggest to the person who referenced it, that once it's seen to do enough, it's unlikely to be reflected upon further.

if anything, as it so happens that illuminates your point of view.

auspicious

It is immeasurably not the case because the majority holds that animal sources of food are grand.
Milk and other dairy products are the top source of saturated fat in the diet, contributing to heart disease, type 2 diabetes, and Alzheimer's disease. Studies have also linked dairy to an increased risk of breast, ovarian, and prostate cancers. Not to mention igf-1 which is promoted by animal protein. IGF-1 promotes each of the key stages of cancer development.
It's not scrutinised closely enough because big business lobbys government and protocols are enacted from the top down.

auspicious

auspicious wrote: »

Of course they do. We never knew smoking was bad for us until science revealed it. If slaughterhouses had glass walls...

Yeah. That’s a great saying. I wonder how many people would stop eating meat and dairy, overnight, if they witnessed what happened in slaughter houses ?

There’s not enough footage from inside slaughter houses either.

And from the footage that does exist it does have a huge impact on humans that get to see it. They see lovely adverts but don’t understand the actual process.

I have family that have reacted from - ‘I’m not eating meat again’ to ‘don’t show it to me. I don’t want to see it. I know I’ll go vegan if I see it’. My sister literally closed her eyes and would not look at it.

The latter example says it all really.

The world would be a much nicer place if slaughter houses did have glass walls as they would be a lot less busy.

gozunda

auspicious wrote: »

It is immeasurably not the case because the majority holds that animal sources of food are grand. *Milk and other dairy products are the top source of saturated fat in the diet, contributing to heart disease, type 2 diabetes, and Alzheimer's disease. Studies have also linked dairy to an increased risk of breast, ovarian, and prostate cancers. Not to mention igf-1 which is promoted by animal protein. IGF-1 promotes each of the key stages of cancer development.
It's not scrutinised closely enough because big business lobbys government and protocols are enacted from the top down.

Auspicious. National health bodies such as the NHS etc recommended that yes milk and dairy form part of a healthy balanced diet. They also suggest plant based alternatives for those who chose those types of foods. See references above.

I do understand your preference for plant based foods etc based on personal beliefs. That's fine. It however does not negate current scientific information on a healthy balanced diet. for the population as a whole.

Btw your quoted information* above comes from an advocacy organisation who call themselves the "Physicians Committee" and who state they are dedicated to

"Creating a healthier world through a new emphasis on plant-based nutrition and scientific research conducted ethically, without using animals"

Despite the name -"Less than 5 percent of its members are physicians,”

So no they are certainly not a reliable independent or unbiased source of nutritional information imo.

Interestingingly the "Physicians Committee"
have been criticised by the American Medical Association (AMA) and are part funded by PETA an extreme animal rights group who have been linked to abducting and killing peoples pets because they are against the keeping of any domestic animals.

It’s almost an impossibility.

There’s no way companies would spend such huge money without knowing it works.

Advertising works. It fools people all the time.

Edward Bernays was one sick pup, imo, and was responsible for eggs and bacon being considered a ‘normal’ breakfast food. Prior to the 1920’s, from memory, nobody considered these items to be suitable for breakfast.

He popularised the idea of eggs and bacon for breakfast around the same time he encouraged more women to smoke by selling them their ‘torches of freedom’.

Money money money. That was his only interest (and the power that went with it) and had he been paid to encourage people to eat less/no meat or that all animals were equal and we should care for them all then people probably wouldn’t eat much milk or diary at all.

The biggest problem with advertising/propaganda is that it makes money. So the longer you’ve been doing it the deeper your reach will be and the more money you will have to reinvest.

So unfortunately people will continue to fall for the advertising/propaganda from the meat and diary industries.

I don’t know the science behind it but it seems we mostly do what we are told. And in this instance the meat and diary industry can tell people anything and they’ll believe it.

So if you look at this advert - ‘everything is great. Don’t be worrying or thinking about anything for yourself. We’ve got you covered’.

https://youtu.be/TrZNgkbBekY


Then you look at the actual reality.

I implore everyone to look at this video today to see the true cruelty experienced for the food on your plate -


https://youtu.be/235rTAZcEJg


Please take a few moments to understand the difference between the lies in the TV adverts and the reality of your choices.

richie123

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So if you look at this advert - ‘everything is great. Don’t be worrying or thinking about anything for yourself. We’ve got you covered’.

https://youtu.be/TrZNgkbBekY


Then you look at the actual reality.

I implore everyone to look at this video today to see the true cruelty experienced for the food on your plate -


https://youtu.be/235rTAZcEJg


Please take a few moments to understand the difference between the lies in the TV adverts and the reality of your choices.

I don't understand the cruelty aspect of this agrument.if you take the common household pet cat or feral cats they torture and kill millions of wildlife every day.
Most that has seen a cat play/torture a mouse sometimes for hours will be horrified by it .. including myself!
So what's your position on that scenario?
If stunning cattle before slaughter is wrong
Then surly a cat torturing a mouse before killing is the same ?
And you can't really say it's nature at work because we can say that about humans too.

richie123

richie123 wrote: »

I don't understand the cruelty aspect of this agrument.if you take the common household pet cat or feral cats they torture and kill millions of wildlife every day.
Most that has seen a cat play/torture a mouse sometimes for hours will be horrified by it .. including myself!
So what's your position on that scenario?
If stunning cattle before slaughter is wrong
Then surly a cat torturing a mouse before killing is the same ?
And you can't really say it's nature at work because we can say that about humans too.

Literally no idea what you’re talking about.

accensi0n

Milk is delicious though.

accensi0n

accensi0n wrote: »

Milk is delicious though.

Very original.

Well done.

richie123

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Literally no idea what you’re talking about.

I'll repeat myself.
Your clearly against cruelty to animals.
As I am.
What is your position on the common household cat torturing and killing millions of wildlife every day.
I cannot make the question any clearer.

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

So if you look at this advert - ‘everything is great. Don’t be worrying or thinking about anything for yourself. We’ve got you covered’.

https://youtu.be/TrZNgkbBekY


Then you look at the actual reality.

I implore everyone to look at this video today to see the true cruelty experienced for the food on your plate -


https://youtu.be/235rTAZcEJg


Please take a few moments to understand the difference between the lies in the TV adverts and the reality of your choices.

That video on Irish pigs is horrible. A couple of weeks ago farmers on this forum were telling me pigs aren't kept in cramped conditions in Ireland.
I don't know how anyone can support that horrible industry.

richie123

richie123 wrote: »

I'll repeat myself.
Your clearly against cruelty to animals.
As I am.
What is your position on the common household cat torturing and killing millions of wildlife every day.
I cannot make the question any clearer.

Still no idea what you’re talking about.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

That video on Irish pigs is horrible. A couple of weeks ago farmers on this forum were telling me pigs aren't kept in cramped conditions in Ireland.
I don't know how anyone can support that horrible industry.

I hear you but advertising works. People see the adverts with happy chickens, pigs and cows.

From memory these are can even (maybe usually) depicted by cartoon/non real life animals.

People don’t get to meet these animals in their normal lives, in the way they meet cats and dogs, and society tells them it’s ‘normal’ to treat these animals differently.

One category (cows, pigs, chickens) are food.

The other category (dogs, cats) are mans best friend and household pets.

I think a stranger to the planet would find it utterly bizarre but advertising, we have seen since we were children, ‘normalises’ these differences.

I’ll also add that if people had more frequent access to the animals that are reared for slaughter and diary then they may see those similarities with dogs and cats more easily.

richie123

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Still no idea what you’re talking about.

I doubt that.your an intelligent person...
You don't want to answer it because it exposes a weakness in your argument.

richie123

richie123 wrote: »

I doubt that.your an intelligent person...
You don't want to answer it because it exposes a weakness in your argument.

I can’t answer it because I don’t understand it.

It’s weird question. I don’t understand the context.

I don’t have an ‘argument’.

I believe what I believe.

You’re welcome to believe what you believe.

But I genuinely don’t understand your question.

richie123

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can’t answer it because I don’t understand it.

It’s weird question. I don’t understand the context.

I don’t have an ‘argument’.

I believe what I believe.

You’re welcome to believe what you believe.

But I genuinely don’t understand your question.

Right that's fair enough.
Your seek to abolish dairy beef pig farming as we know it.
So if that's the case anyone with a pet cat that's allowed out in the open should be stopped as the are prolific torturers/killers.
Zoos should closed because animals are being kept in enclosed unnatural condition s.
The horse racing industry should be shut down for the very same reasons ...being kept and forced into racing everyweek and being kept in enclosures.
You can't cherrypick the industries you want to shut down because it doesn't suit you.

richie123

richie123 wrote: »

Right that's fair enough.
Your seek to abolish dairy beef pig farming as we know it.
So if that's the case anyone with a pet cat that's allowed out in the open should be stopped as the are prolific torturers/killers.
Zoos should closed because animals are being kept in enclosed unnatural condition s.
The horse racing industry should be shut down for the very same reasons ...being kept and forced into racing everyweek and being kept in enclosures.
You can't cherrypick the industries you want to shut down because it doesn't suit you.

What’s fair enough ?

I think I get you (your question) now. If you see a similarity in those two examples then I’m flabbergasted. There is no answer to that question. It’s a bizarre unrelated question. It’s random as.

And I agree with most of your other suggestions.

richie123

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What’s fair enough ?

I think I get you (your question) now. If you see a similarity in those two examples then I’m flabbergasted. There is no answer to that question. It’s a bizarre unrelated question. It’s random as.

And I agree with most of your other suggestions.

Fair enough as in I don't mind that you don't understand.
Any industry that's harmful to animals should be banned.
Don't cherry pick.
Combine harvestors harvesting soya kill a lot of animals.
drilling/tilling ploughing ground for crops macerate animals too.
Don't be selective otherwise it's hypocrisy.

Lady Haywire

If consumers actually cared more about where their food comes from, those kind of pig units would be a thing of the past. It doesn't take much searching to find outdoor reared pork for sale in Ireland but because it's that bit more expensive, it's not bought. Shoppers want the €1 sausages and rashers, their €3.99 breakfast roll. If they paid more heed to welfare & spending a bit more for it, there would be far more outdoor pigs around. But sure then they wouldn't have as much to spend on iphones and the like. Years ago the weekly food shop was a much larger part of the weekly bills, but now consumers want the cheapest they can get (most of the time) without a thought to the process behind it.
On the same line, folks raving about Denny meat free sausages & yet they're supporting the same company who pays for these pigs to be reared in the video shown above. That's propaganda too, you're just supporting pig farming in a different way.

Oh & on the subject of cats/dogs.....let me just go outside to my petfood tree & take down a few tins there :pac:

Thelonious Monk

I've only seen free range pork in dunnes, it's not widely available really. Plus we couldnt satiate the demand for pork with free range unless everyone ate less meat and that seems unfathomable to most.

Lady Haywire

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I've only seen free range pork in dunnes, it's not widely available really. Plus we couldnt satiate the demand for pork with free range unless everyone ate less meat and that seems unfathomable to most.

Lots of places online to order from. I'm just stating a fact, most consumers don't care about where it comes from, it's the price sticker which they look at.
If there was more demand there would be a larger amount of people supplying.

Thelonious Monk

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Lots of places online to order from. I'm just stating a fact, most consumers don't care about where it comes from, it's the price sticker which they look at.
If there was more demand there would be a larger amount of people supplying.

Oh i know, most people couldnt care less how their food is produced or if any animals are suffering, but hopefully the tide is slowly turning.