Don't fall foul of big industry propaganda.

richie123

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Oh i know, most people couldnt care less how their food is produced or if any animals are suffering, but hopefully the tide is slowly turning.

Agree with you there.vast majority don't give a **** where there food comes from..so long long as it's cheap.

gozunda

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

That video on Irish pigs is horrible. A couple of weeks ago farmers on this forum were telling me pigs aren't kept in cramped conditions in Ireland.
I don't know how anyone can support that horrible industry.

Think you are gettnng a bit mixed up there tbh Thelonious.

I think these were the posts in question?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=114706761

And btw the article you linked was about a tragic fire in a pig farm in Northern Ireland - and despite your comment - it didn't show any conditions at the pig unit in question.

gozunda wrote: »

Thats in Northern Ireland btw.

You should do a bit more reading tbf. I personally would advocate for free range systems. But your description is wrong. Pigs are not "crammed in on top of each other in boxes".

This is a working indoor system in the UK. which as in Ireland must meet statutory stocking controls

https://youtu.be/5zifDcGVaKE?t=2m49s

Where there are incidents of poor animal welfare - that should be dealt with. Not used as a stick to beat others with ...

As you can see there are major variations on how pigs are kept.

The problem with the videos used by extremist organisations such as Wake! Is that they use the worst examples of the pig rearing sector and edit them to suit their narrative that all farming is like. Its not.

The other big issue with those videos is that they show animal cruelty but only for the shock value. They do nothing to help those animals they are filming Just make money via YouTube etc from the videos. I dont agree with that at all and I dont support Cruelty to animals anywhere.

jh79

auspicious wrote: »

Milk has become such a persuasive product by the industry market targeting children or potential insecurities of parents. We never learned about other sources of calcium; the misconception that if we didn't drink milk we were missing something. But that's a tired selling point these days.
Essential part of a balanced diet! It was/is so ubiquitous it wasn't/isn't questioned. Through the power of advertising it has become so deeply ingrained.
The U.S. National Dairy Council recognizes that foods like kale, bok choy, and broccoli all have higher rates of calcium absorption than milk. 
Two tablespoons dried ground basil 220 mg of calcium, 1 cup milk 240mg.
Why don't we know this? Agricultural lobbyists. Government supporting agriculture; dietary guidelines, to date.
They're big business. Like any good business their bottom line is profit.

Had a quick look on google and even with lower absorption rates milk still has more calcium than broccoli and a lot more than kale. Also easier to get a child to drink 100g of milk than eat 100g of broccoli.

The whole point of having a balanced diet is you eat both and then don't have to worry about RDA's etc.

gozunda

richie123 wrote: »

Agree with you there.vast majority don't give a **** where there food comes from..so long long as it's cheap.

I'd agree with that. And its all types of food. Vegetable, arable and animal products. Producers here are going out of business because people want cheap out of season food all year round. I dont think its always deliberate though - sometimes its lack of proper information as well.

https://stopfoodwaste.ie/resources/planning-shopping/seasonal-calendar-planning-shopping[/ufl]

NcdJd

jh79 wrote: »

Had a quick look on google and even with lower absorption rates milk still has more calcium than broccoli and a lot more than kale. Also easier to get a child to drink 100g of milk than eat 100g of broccoli.

The whole point of having a balanced diet is you eat both and then don't have to worry about RDA's etc.

Bit off topic but here is commercial Broccoli production, or name of the crop which is Calabrese. Just in case anyone thinks that by eating Broccoli rather than having the glass of milk is anyway more harmful to the environment. No biodiversity whatsoever in these fields. And thats plastic netting by the way.

Calabrese used to be a cash crop for vegetable farmers, I think there is only one grower left in the country? ( The grower in the attached photos gave it up this year. )

Edit, just my point here is that all food production needs to be looked at in my view from an environmental view point. Food getting cheaper and cheaper, small producers whether plant or animal being squeezed out of business in favour of industrial type farming. Not good for the environment or biodiversity.

auspicious

It's utterly amazing that a comparison is being made that a cat playing with a mouse is similar to the disgusting systematic abuse, cruelty, torture and inhumane suffering of those poor pigs in the video which was filmed in this country. Mercilessly exploited to within an inch of their life and beyond in metal and concrete prisons for the useless goal of an uneccessary product.
It's filmed behind 'frosted glass' and without anyone to stand up for them and say no this is not right it would continue out of sight, out of mind.

And so what about cats? Where did they come from and why are they there?
Again the problem lies at society's feet. The rampant feral population 200,000 strong in number is a result of our domestication of the species and the general couldn't give a **** attitude most people hold regarding their health and the health of biodiversity impacted.
If you care write to your TD, campaign for a humane solution to our problem and stricter controls on pet ownership. But also equally campaign to end the complete horror show that is reality that those pigs are forced to endure. From their perspective we are monsters. If you see it and do nothing about it, you agree with it.

richie123

auspicious wrote: »

It's utterly amazing that a comparison is being made that a cat playing with a mouse is similar to the disgusting systematic abuse, cruelty, torture and inhumane suffering of those poor pigs in the video which was filmed in this country. Mercilessly exploited to within an inch of their life and beyond in metal and concrete prisons for the useless goal of an uneccessary product.
It's filmed behind 'frosted glass' and without anyone to stand up for them and say no this is not right it would continue out of sight, out of mind.

And so what about cats? Where did they come from and why are they there?
Again the problem lies at society's feet. The rampant feral population 200,000 strong in number is a result of our domestication of the species and the general couldn't give a **** attitude most people hold regarding their health and the health of biodiversity impacted.
If you care write to your TD, campaign for a humane solution to our problem and stricter controls on pet ownership. But also equally campaign to end the complete horror show that is reality that those pigs are forced to endure. From their perspective we are monsters. If you see it and do nothing about it, you agree with it.

I'm glad you find it amazing.you cant cherrypick what your horrified by because it's hypocritical.
The pet industry relies heavily on the meat industry for petfood.
So going by your beliefs we should ban that also.

auspicious

We should rescue and adopt. Shelters are full. Buying and trading animals only perpetuates and exacerbates the problem. Breeding more just creates more reliance on the meat industry. And where there is a demand unscrupulous ****ers will operate outside of guidelines and law to profiteer.
The money spent on buying pets could go a long way to helping out organisations sheltering those cast aside.
It's selfish.
ISPCA says 30 dogs a day are abandoned or approx 11,000 a year in Ireland.
https://www.ispca.ie/news/detail/numbers_of_dog_adoptions_on_the_rise_but_30_dogs_a_day_are_abandoned

Grim statistics
Between 100,000 and 200,000 pets are abandoned in France each year, with 60% of these incidents occurring over the summer.

By comparison, the RSPCA animal charity told the BBC that the figure is close to 16,000 in the UK.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-53677571

DONATE AND ADOPT. Don't shop.

Thelonious Monk

richie123 wrote: »

I'm glad you find it amazing.you cant cherrypick what your horrified by because it's hypocritical.
The pet industry relies heavily on the meat industry for petfood.
So going by your beliefs we should ban that also.

Much like everything else the unfettered growth of pet dog population is something that needs to be looked at sooner or later.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dogs-environment-cats-pets-food-meat_n_5be94743e4b0e84388999f40

I’ve never understood any ‘argument’ that involves ‘well it’s not happening in this country’ (even though it is.)

Like I’ve said before that attitude condones all sorts of behaviour

in some countries raping your wife is legal.

In some countries you can be sentenced to death if you are gay

In some countries it’s legal for a 50 year old man to have sex (I assume it’s really rape) a 13 year old girl

What kind of person is only concerned about WHERE these things happen ?

Tilikum17

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I’ve never understood any ‘argument’ that involves ‘well it’s not happening in this country’ (even though it is.)

Like I’ve said before that attitude condones all sorts of behaviour

in some countries raping your wife is legal.

In some countries you can be sentenced to death if you are gay

In some countries it’s legal for a 50 year old man to have sex (I assume it’s really rape) a 13 year old girl

What kind of person is only concerned about WHERE these things happen ?

You’re wasting your time.

Tilikum17

Tilikum17 wrote: »

You’re wasting your time.

Because people are baiting and not genuine ?

Or because people make their money in that way ?

Or any other reason ?

Tilikum17

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because people are baiting and not genuine ?

Or because people make their money in that way ?

Or any other reason ?

You keep replying to a “farmer” that’s been called out on his obsession by both farmers and non meat eaters on boards in the past. A person that spends every waking hour on this forum because people keep replying to him. There’s isn’t a farmer on the planet that has that much spare time.

If everyone would just put him/her on ignore you be much better off.

If it’s true that there are trolls on the forum then hopefully a new and more active mod can single them out.

I’ve started a thread in the help desk to request a new moderator that has an active interest in the forum.

Not sure what the process is though.

Tilikum17

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If it’s true that there are trolls on the forum then hopefully a new and more active mod can single them out.

I’ve started a thread in the help desk to request a new moderator that has an active interest in the forum.

Not sure what the process is though.

I don’t think he/she is a troll, I just think there’s an unhealthy obcession with all things vegan. A adult who goes sending pms to mods because he/she can’t post in vegan threads.

At one stage I looked at their last 50 posts on boards. This “farmer” had 49 posts in the vegan forum and one post in the farming forum - which was about vegans.

That’s when I put them on ignore.

gozunda

Tilikum17 wrote: »

I don’t think he/she is a troll, I just think there’s an unhealthy obcession with all things vegan. A adult who goes sending pms to mods because he/she can’t post in vegan threads. At one stage I looked at their last 50 posts on boards. This “farmer” had 49 posts in the vegan forum and one post in the farming forum - which was about vegans.That’s when I put them on ignore.

Jaysus lads have ye nothing better to do? And yet another thread derailed having a go ...

But to answer.

Tbf its not a good look taking random pot shots at others simply because some dont agree with them. Tbh that comes across as all a bit obsessive.

Btw exactly how the hell would anyone know if anyone is sending "pm" to mods? Seriously that's bs. You're mainly making ****e up at this stage tbf.

Considering the amount of farm and agriculture threads in this forum - are you really surprised when those who know about these subjects comment on them? Or are you saying freedom of expression only belongs to the select few?


Edit:
Just remembered Tilikum17 - you posted previously in the farming forum on threads there

gozunda

Anyway back on topic ...

Don't fall foul of big industry propaganda and others...

Looks like we might need to consider thats its not just traditional food production sectors who can be accused of 'propaganda'

"They're big business. Like any good business their bottom line is profit."

the other type of greenwashing can be a bit harder to spot and is far more insidious. This is where companies and brands use words like ‘green’, ‘sustainable’, ‘eco-friendly’, or ‘vegan’ simply as a marketing ploy, without any deep interrogation over what those terms actually mean. And crucially - without any accountability for their actions.

https://www.euronews.com/living/2020/09/09/what-is-greenwashing-and-why-is-it-a-problem

Interesting article looking at some of the claims being used to flogg certain products by large marketing campaigns

https://www.nutritionadvance.com/vegan-propaganda-and-meat/