Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

Floppybits

McMurphy wrote: »

Ffs bishop they have said in their opinion he broke the law, opinions are all anyone have until a court ruling says otherwise, stop with the pedantry.

See what we are failing to understand is that it is ok to leak documents marked "confidential/Not for distribution" when you are a member to Fine Gael, however this only applies to Fine Gael any one else doing this would see the party the of Law and Order screaming that the person who leaked the document should be sacked, resign their seat and also have a criminal investigation into the leaking of the document.

Ask yourself if this was a FF, SF, SD, etc that did this would do you think that Fine Gael would be just waving it away saying nothing to see here?

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

You yes.
State just them four words, Leo broke the Law.
Stating it as your opinion Francie, doesn't mean he did and you know it:)

What?

You have just made yourself look utterly ridiculous.

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

Ffs bishop they have said in their opinion he broke the law, opinions are all anyone have until a court ruling says otherwise, stop with the pedantry.

Who actually said that he broke the law?

Bishop of hope

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Who actually said that he broke the law?

They're all scared ****less to say it Maryanne.
Imply it yes, but hiding behind little remarks that cop out from it.

shatners bassoon

There's a very strong argument here that he broke the law and that requires proper investigation. That's the key here.

I still find the fact that he came out and argued that the Act doesn't apply to members of the Oireachtas absolutely incredible. That's not even up for debate, it's completely false.

Whether the document itself comes under the Act, whether the leak constitutes an unlawful communication and whether he was authorised to do so / it was his duty to in the interest of the State to do so is potentially up for debate.

shatners bassoon

shatners bassoon wrote: »

There's a very strong argument here that he broke the law and that requires proper investigation. That's the key here.

I still find the fact that he came out and argued that the Act doesn't apply to members of the Oireachtas absolutely incredible. That's not even up for debate, it's completely false.

Whether the document itself comes under the Act, whether the leak constitutes an unlawful communication and whether he was authorised to do so / it was his duty to in the interest of the State to do so is potentially up for debate.

What law would he have broken? The document was in the public domain.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

They're all scared ****less to say it Maryanne.
Imply it yes, but hiding behind little remarks that cop out from it.

If it was 'wrong' then there is no other conclusion that can be reached.

Why?

Because if it was 'wrong', then it was a breach. If it wasn't a breach then it wasn't 'wrong'.

Varadkar is saying it himself and Michael Martin is refusing to allow anybody with the power to look at it (the Attorney general) give an opinion.

So somebody (Bowes) has made a complaint to The Gardai and somebody else has made one to SIPO and somebody else to the Dáil ethics committee.

McMurphy

Deleted User wrote: »

Who actually said that he broke the law?

Nobody can actually say that either way, that's the point Mary. Jesus.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

What law would he have broken? The document was in the public domain.

Here is the opinion of a senior counsel.

Please don't be arrogant enough just to dismiss it. Can you produce a similarly weighted and considered opposite opinion?

https://villagemagazine.ie/senior-counsels-opinion-for-village-affirms-being-a-minister-does-not-exclude-you-from-the-obligations-of-the-official-secret-act/

grayzer75

Deleted User wrote: »

What law would he have broken? The document was in the public domain.

It's suggested he broke this law by providing a third party with a marked confidential document which WAS NOT in the public domain - the document was amended prior to release.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1963/act/1/enacted/en/html

There should be a full investigation relating to this and all the facts considered not just the words of the man at the heart of it.

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

Nobody can actually say that either way, that's the point Mary. Jesus.

So, as of now, no law has been broken, to the best of anyone’s knowledge.

Bishop of hope

McMurphy wrote: »

Nobody can actually say that either way, that's the point Mary. Jesus.

Good man Mc, that's a fair post.

McMurphy

Deleted User wrote: »

So, as of now, no law has been broken, to the best of anyone’s knowledge.

In your opinion. See how it works?

Floppybits

Deleted User wrote: »

What law would he have broken? The document was in the public domain.

Are you still clinging to that defence? If it was in the Public domain then why wasn't Leo's buddy able to get a copy of it, why were the Opposition looking for it, Why did Simon Harris not give the document to Leo's mate when he asked him for it?

There are so many holes in that excuse but you can continue to believe it.

celt262

Where is all the outrage on Facebook over this i haven't seen anyone calling for Leo's head compared to what we have seen about others lately.

Are the shinners not shouting from the rooftops?

Mrsmum

By his actions, he broke trust left, right and centre and that is in the public domain now. The ordinary citizen doesn't care about legal arguments, they care about what was going on behind their backs, now admitted to by himself and all other politicians as wrongdoing. He is a busted flush from now on, imo, and the defence of him by other politicians has ruined their credibility also. It's like people are saying - ah so we know who you are now Leo.

weldoninhio

Deleted User wrote: »

What law would he have broken? The document was in the public domain.

"It was a confidential document" - Leo Varadkar 03/11/2020 in Dail Eireann, when asked if, at the time he sent the document, was the document confidential or public information.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Here is the opinion of a senior counsel.

Please don't be arrogant enough just to dismiss it. Can you produce a similarly weighted and considered opposite opinion?

https://villagemagazine.ie/senior-counsels-opinion-for-village-affirms-being-a-minister-does-not-exclude-you-from-the-obligations-of-the-official-secret-act/

That opinion doesn’t suggest any law was broken.

celt262

celt262 wrote: »

Where is all the outrage on Facebook over this i haven't seen anyone calling for Leo's head compared to what we have seen about others lately.

Are the shinners not shouting from the rooftops?

They’ve all moved to Twitter. Become twits, in other words.

Bishop of hope

Mrsmum wrote: »

By his actions, he broke trust left, right and centre and that is in the public domain now. The ordinary citizen doesn't care about legal arguments, they care about what was going on behind their backs, now admitted to by himself and all other politicians as wrongdoing. He is a busted flush from now on, imo, and the defence of him by other politicians has ruined their credibility also. It's like people are saying - ah so we know who you are now Leo.

The best reason for him to have resigned imo going on what we know so far.
Breaking trust and getting parliament to defend you for that is the biggest problem this has created.

celt262

Deleted User wrote: »

They’ve all moved to Twitter. Become twits, in other words.

Cant be bother with that thanks

DenMan

Fianna Fail's Marc McSharry calling party leader and Taoiseach Michael Martin a disgrace in the Dail last night for his show of support for Varadkar. More implosion it seems!

Floppybits

DenMan wrote: »

Fianna Fail's Marc McSharry calling party leader and Taoiseach Michael Martin a disgrace in the Dail last night for his show of support for Varadkar. More implosion it seems!

That will be dismissed by government supporters as McSharry is seen as a crack pot.

Allinall

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If it was 'wrong' then there is no other conclusion that can be reached.

Why?

Because if it was 'wrong', then it was a breach. If it wasn't a breach then it wasn't 'wrong'.

Varadkar is saying it himself and Michael Martin is refusing to allow anybody with the power to look at it (the Attorney general) give an opinion.

So somebody (Bowes) has made a complaint to The Gardai and somebody else has made one to SIPO and somebody else to the Dáil ethics committee.

Where is your evidence for this claim?

stockshares

Marc McSharry on Claire Byrne in a few mins after they finish USA review .

Fann Linn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What law would he have broken? The document was in the public domain.

Well why the need for leaking it so?
Asking for a friend.

FrancieBrady

Allinall wrote: »

Where is your evidence for this claim?

Irish Times report linked earlier

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

That opinion doesn’t suggest any law was broken.

It gives an opinion on what laws govern what he did.

If what he did was by his own admission 'wrong', then he broke the laws defined in that legal opinion.

IAMAMORON

Apart from Leo learning to not trust slimeballs like Matt Tool. Apart from cranks like Chay whathisname being condemned to social welfare for the rest of his life, lets be honest, given that this is such a non-story no one will be buying the book either.

I do think that an uncomfortable line has been crossed in the pursuit of the head of a politician. For better or for worse, we don't know yet. It is obvious that in behind this non story is a sinister enough attempt by left thinking stakeholders hoping to throw mud at Tánaiste Varadker. Furthermore, this had led to a barrage of online tripe talk from cranks and Twitterites flinging accusation after accusation at their political opponents, it looks nasty all thing considered. Having to Tweet to the world that you are contacting the Gardaí says a lot about what was really going on here.

I doubt Mary Lou, Pears, O'Brien, or that RAhead from Waterford would be all that comfortable with their private messages getting shared all over the internet, I certainly doubt Aodhán O'Ríordain ( ní Vinny ) would be happy with it either.

BTW tomorrow is Friday, so I would say you have less than 24 hrs to whip up another outrage before this non story becomes an official non story and gets the proper "witch hunt " label it has warranted since its' inception. Threatening TD's with the Gardaí is real guttersnipe stuff, no matter what way you drum it up. The worm turns and I would hate to be cleaning the bib of half the opposition TD's if the time came around, all things considered.

At the end of the week it is Leo who comes out with more credit than the rest. At least he stood up and took his punches and is still standing. Hate on him all you like, but he has brought more change to this country in the last ten years than any other politician can stand beside. The only reason he generates so much apathy is because he is a strong politician with a strong message and most importantly is in power to do something about it.

On a final matter it needs to be said that Sinn Féin need to address their own timewasting on this matter. For starters, whoever thought it was a good idea to attempt this the same week as the US presidential election has made severe error in judgement? Talk about dropping the ball? In fact this is not the first time this has happened this year, not contesting enough general election seats was another. It is indicative of a party that not only does not know how to cross the river, but is in grave danger of drowning if it even got its' feet wet.

Cluedo Monopoly

From the Fine Gael New Politics document in 2011.

Fine Gael’s New Politics tackles all of these weaknesses head-on and will restore people’s
trust in the political process by delivering real, tangible change. The Irish people are rightly
outraged at the way in which their country has been misgoverned.

Fine Gael will build a New Republic in Ireland - where trust is restored in our democratic institutions and the concerns of the Citizen,
rather than the elites, are placed firmly at the centre of government.

It is aging badly!