Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

shatners bassoon

Deleted User wrote: »

So, as of now, no law has been broken, to the best of anyone’s knowledge.

This has to be a wind up.

No, no one can say for certain whether a law has been broken. The same way no one can say for certain whether a murderer committed a crime until the matter is investigated and tried. The fact that we don't know for certain that he's the murderer doesn't mean he hasn't broken the law!

stockshares

Deleted User wrote: »

Who actually said that he broke the law?

I posted this earlier yesterday.

When asked by Peadar Toibin did he consider the Doc to be public or confidential Leo said Confidential .

Video of Q+A. Peadars Qs at 04:48:00
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/oireach...video-archive/

Allinall

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Irish Times report linked earlier

That does not say that

"Michael Martin is refusing to allow anybody with the power to look at it (the Attorney general) give an opinion."

which was your claim.

The Attorney General does not need the permission of An Taoiseach to give an opinion.

shatners bassoon

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Apart from Leo learning to not trust slimeballs like Matt Tool. Apart from cranks like Chay whathisname being condemned to social welfare for the rest of his life, lets be honest, given that this is such a non-story no one will be buying the book either.

I do think that an uncomfortable line has been crossed in the pursuit of the head of a politician. For better or for worse, we don't know yet. It is obvious that in behind this non story is a sinister enough attempt by left thinking stakeholders hoping to throw mud at Tánaiste Varadker. Furthermore, this had led to a barrage of online tripe talk from cranks and Twitterites flinging accusation after accusation at their political opponents, it looks nasty all thing considered. Having to Tweet to the world that you are contacting the Gardaí says a lot about what was really going on here.

I doubt Mary Lou, Pears, O'Brien, or that RAhead from Waterford would be all that comfortable with their private messages getting shared all over the internet, I certainly doubt Aodhán O'Ríordain ( ní Vinny ) would be happy with it either.

BTW tomorrow is Friday, so I would say you have less than 24 hrs to whip up another outrage before this non story becomes an official non story and gets the proper "witch hunt " label it has warranted since its' inception. Threatening TD's with the Gardaí is real guttersnipe stuff, no matter what way you drum it up. The worm turns and I would hate to be cleaning the bib of half the opposition TD's if the time came around, all things considered.

At the end of the week it is Leo who comes out with more credit than the rest. At least he stood up and took his punches and is still standing. Hate on him all you like, but he has brought more change to this country in the last ten years than any other politician can stand beside. The only reason he generates so much apathy is because he is a strong politician with a strong message and most importantly is in power to do something about it.

On a final matter it needs to be said that Sinn Féin need to address their own timewasting on this matter. For starters, whoever thought it was a good idea to attempt this the same week as the US presidential election has made severe error in judgement? Talk about dropping the ball? In fact this is not the first time this has happened this year, not contesting enough general election seats was another. It is indicative of a party that not only does not know how to cross the river, but is in grave danger of drowning if it even got its' feet wet.

YOUAREINDEEDAMORON

McMurphy

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Threatening TD's with the Gardaí is real guttersnipe stuff, no matter what way you drum it up.

Paul Murphy will be glad to know he has a poster with such a username offering him solidarity.

Garda accused of lying about Paul Murphy's actions at Jobstown trial

WicklaWolf

stockshares wrote: »

Marc McSharry on Claire Byrne in a few mins after they finish USA review .

Has he been on ? Pascal on now.

Bishop of hope

WicklaWolf wrote: »

Has he been on ? Pascal on now.

Not yet.

FrancieBrady

Allinall wrote: »

That does not say that

"Michael Martin is refusing to allow anybody with the power to look at it (the Attorney general) give an opinion."

which was your claim.

Irish Times wrote:

]Taoiseach Micheál Martin has rejected a Sinn Féin call to consult the Attorney General about whether Tánaiste Leo Varadkar broke the law in relation

The Attorney General does not need the permission of An Taoiseach to give an opinion.

Can you back this up?

Nobotty

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you were to say quote the village magazine and their legal advise saying it was illegal,who gets sued then


Varadkar clearly been leaking all sorts,hes not gonna sue anyone,same as gerry adams isnt going to sue anyone for saying he was in the ira,as civil cases allow all sorts of irrelevant info be aired publically and whatever shred of a reputation he has left would be wiped out

You can report on what someone else says but you can't say it in any other way other than its your opinion
The mainstream newspapers might report on the story but you won't hear them cast judgement
There have been at least 2 garda complaints so that will clear up the issue of law
Vradakar won't sue the village at this time
He'll wait until Garda investigations are concluded
After that,assuming they don't charge him,and let's be honest no charge is the likely outcome,he'll have twitter do a Donald trump on the village tweets and/or sue then or injunct them from repeating
Or he may do nothing
The do nothing would suit him fine as it won't be a story reported by others then

Sir Oxman

smurgen wrote: »

More coming tomorrow. Can't wait ☺️.

https://twitter.com/BowesChay/status/1324051443540725761?s=19

Oh that's good
esp Ryan

Cute Hoor

Deleted User wrote: »

The document was in the public domain.

I don't know if I'm allowed to post this, but we are over 200 pages into this topic and the controversy is nearly a week old, and somebody still thinks that the document was in the public domain

Allinall

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Can you back this up?

You are asking me to prove a negative.

Can you show where he does need the permission of An Taoiseach to voice an opinion?

You also claimed the Taoiseach refused to allow
him to look at the issue.

There is no evidence that this is the case.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Here is the opinion of a senior counsel.

Please don't be arrogant enough just to dismiss it. Can you produce a similarly weighted and considered opposite opinion?

https://villagemagazine.ie/senior-counsels-opinion-for-village-affirms-being-a-minister-does-not-exclude-you-from-the-obligations-of-the-official-secret-act/

That legal opinion doesn't say what you think it says. Read this piece:

"However the communication by any person may nonetheless be excepted from prohibition, not because of status for example as member of the Oireachtas or Minister, but if the disclosing person either

is duly authorised to communicate the official information – “duly authorised” here means (S.4(4)) authorised by a Minister or State authority or by some person authorised in that behalf by a Minister or State authority to communicate the official information, or
communicates the official information in the course of or in accordance with his or her duties as the holder of a public office (not including membership of the Oireachtas), or
when it is his or her duty in the interest of the State to communicate it."

So, according to that opinion, if Leo authorised himself, or in accordance with his duties, or in the interest of the State, then he didn't break the law.

That agrees with everything I have said since the start of this discussion about the Official Secrets Act.

Hope nobody was getting too excited about this legal opinion.

stockshares

Marc on now.

Mentions double standards.

Says the way MM handled to he scandal was a disgrace

Contrary to what's in the papers none of his colleagues dissented(disagreed) when he made the remarks

Leo's story is a fairytale. There isn't a 6yr old in Ireland that doesn't know that.

Asked if he considers leaving FF he ysed a football analogy saying that at times you might have bad tactics and bad players in your team/club but you don't keave, you try to change it.

FrancieBrady

Allinall wrote: »

You are asking me to prove a negative.

Can you show where he does need the permission of An Taoiseach to voice an opinion?

You also claimed the Taoiseach refused to allow
him to look at the issue.

There is no evidence that this is the case.

When the Taoiseach is asked in the Dáil to consult the AG, what do you think is happening?

The opposition are putting the 'request' on the record of the house. The AG cannot just go to the media or independently comment on an individual case.
That is why the opposition were 'officially' asking the Taoiseach to involve the AG. He denied the request. The AG cannot get involved.

If he/she can then there would be incidences of it.

ooter

"fairytale backstory."

Sir Oxman

This thing is not going away yet.

Fann Linn

MacSharry saying it as it is in fairness.
A fairy tale.

blanch152

shatners bassoon wrote: »

This has to be a wind up.

No, no one can say for certain whether a law has been broken. The same way no one can say for certain whether a murderer committed a crime until the matter is investigated and tried. The fact that we don't know for certain that he's the murderer doesn't mean he hasn't broken the law!

<Snip>

That argument just doesn't wash. There is no evidence that a law has been broken. The senior counsel opinion obtained by the Village magazine supports the view that Varadkar could have authorised himself to share the document. That he didn't follow best practice in doing so doesn't make it a crime.

WicklaWolf

A six year old wouldn't believe Leo Varadkar's story - Marc McSharry

Bannasidhe

Bullocks wrote: »

I reckon this story is dying on its feet , the Village didn't come out with anything new despite their promises of more to follow and the US elections are keeping the newspapers full without looking for any more news . Could be a lucky time for Leo for this to air

Yet I just heard Pascal defending Leo to Claire Byrne on Radio One. His repeated assistance that Leo is a politician of integrity sounded hollow and desperate imo.
CB: FF are revolting
PD: Leo has integrity. :rolleyes:

Hmmmm... story not gone away even as we are all glued to the count in Georgia and Pennsylvania is bad for the govt.

Allinall

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When the Taoiseach is asked in the Dáil to consult the AG, what do you think is happening?

The opposition are putting the 'request' on the record of the house. The AG cannot just go to the media or independently comment on an individual case.
That is why the opposition were 'officially' asking the Taoiseach to involve the AG. He denied the request. The AG cannot get involved.

If he/she can then there would be incidences of it.

Yet another claim with nothing to back it up. Why you are bringing the media into it I have no idea.

Just because you or I do not know of any incidents of the Attorney general making independent commentary does not mean he cannot do so.

FrancieBrady

McSharry nailing it. This is not 'leaking to the press or giving a steer', this is 'leaking a confidential official state secret'.

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

The way this has been pursued on Twitter and online is Trumpian in nature, led by the Shinnerbot Twitterati.

Not surprising again to see the similarities between different variants of the toxic ideology of exclusionary nationalism.

Haha typical FFG response - deflect and then blame the shinners.

This sh1tshow rests squarely at the door of #LeoTheLeak and nobody else but you'll go all out to defend your master regardless.

costacorta

WicklaWolf wrote: »

A six year old wouldn't believe Leo Varadkar's story - Marc McSharry

Sure poor old Marc will do anything to blame MM who overlooked him for a ministry. It’s called being bitter so of no relevance really what he says ..

timmyntc

A broken clock is right twice a day

Nobotty

Problem with McSharry's view point is its driven by a civil war hatred of FG
There's a lot of that in FF and FG
The only party they hate more is SF
The only beauty I suppose is your enemies enemy is your friend
Until of course he starts attacking you

FrancieBrady

Allinall wrote: »

Yet another claim with nothing to back it up. Why you are bringing the media into it I have no idea.

Just because you or I do not know of any incidents of the Attorney general making independent commentary does not mean he cannot do so.

You claimed I was wrong and also nothing to back up what you say.

The absolute arrogance of that.

Allinall

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You claimed I was wrong and also nothing to back up what you say.

The absolute arrogance of that.

Once again you are asking me to prove a negative.

It's disingenuous.

Your original claim was that

"Michael Martin is refusing to allow anybody with the power to look at it (the Attorney general) give an opinion."

You have offered nothing to back up this claim.

IngazZagni

Does anybody here believe the NAGP shouldn’t have had access to the full document at all? Even Sinn Fein wanted the NAGP to have access to this material. However if the IMO were asked for permission it would most likely have created a massive issue as the IMO wouldn’t want a rival union to have any influence.

It was a shortcut and a poor error of judgement but I honestly believe it was done for genuine reasons. Can you imagine the outrage if GPs had refused to sign the agreement because the NAGP campaigned against it due to being kept out of the loop?

Of all juicy political scandals this is pretty dry.