Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

McMurphy

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Do SF always not have confidence in the government anyway!!????

Leo isn't the government, I know a few of you lads think he is FG, but similarly, FG aren't the govt either.

Do you have confidence in him Jingle?
What do you think should happen him if more evidence emerges of him leaking information?
Was it yourself thought Maria Bailey was a plant to bring fg into disrepute?

Jinglejangle69

McMurphy wrote: »

Leo isn't the government, I know a few of you lads think he is FG, but similarly, FG aren't the govt either.

Do you have confidence in him Jingle?
What do you think should happen him if more evidence emerges of him leaking information?
Was it yourself thought Maria Bailey was a plant to bring fg into disrepute?

I'm actually just joking around.

I just mean surely opposition parties never have confidence in the government as they are always criticising them!?

Yeah it's not looking good for him alright.

He'll probably go and we'll move onto the next massive scandal.

thomas 123

McMurphy wrote: »

Definitely, PD asked Varadkar fairly specific questions yesterday, which Leo answered emphatically.

But anyway. Check this out.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1324697572834004995?s=19


Leo told the truth now go away shinners. Are they for real?

Who’s the spokesperson? Again I ask is this good enough? 2020 and this is what we are putting up with?

timmyntc

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I'm actually just joking around.

I just mean surely opposition parties never have confidence in the government as they are always criticising them!?.

Well yeah, that's their job - to hold govt to account.
And govt have a defacto majority, that's why they are in govt.

But if they do something very bad, which opposition believes may be enough to bring down govt (i.e. some of govt TDs would vote against govt) then they'll call for no confidence.


No confidence in Varadkar is because clearly more than just the opposition are unhappy with him (as we know from FFs internal squabbles)

thomas 123

Let’s see will the whips be rolled out again...

Gatling

McMurphy wrote: »

Second headline on the 1400 news after Trump v Biden.


Not going away.

What sf table motion of no confidence for the how many time over the last few years.

It's going away I'd imagine most of the posts on here will be from the same people quoting themselves on a daily basis to keep this going ,

Leo hasn't done anything that every TD , senator or councillor from every party has already done before them

Fungie made more headlines than this , completely sad but true

Plumbthedepths

Leo should have listened to Albert.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-20015209.html

FrancieBrady

Gatling wrote: »

What sf table motion of no confidence for the how many time over the last few years.

It's going away I'd imagine most of the posts on here will be from the same people quoting themselves on a daily basis to keep this going ,

Leo hasn't done anything that every TD , senator or councillor from every party has already done before them

Fungie made more headlines than this , completely sad but true

More grist to the 'only mistake he made was to get caught' mill.

Nobotty

Sinn Féin need to be hole-ing Vradakar under the waterline next week or they'll run the risk of being attacked themselves for spending Dáil time on this instead of bread and butter issues in the middle of a pandemic
You can see that line of attack coming already
Without a smoking gun,and if we are treated to just a rehash of last Tuesdays debate,the timing will be wasted
That won't be Sinn Féins fault, its Bowes and paddy and the village's for running with this with poor strategy IMO

James Brown

Gatling wrote: »

What sf table motion of no confidence for the how many time over the last few years.

It's going away I'd imagine most of the posts on here will be from the same people quoting themselves on a daily basis to keep this going ,

Leo hasn't done anything that every TD , senator or councillor from every party has already done before them

Fungie made more headlines than this , completely sad but true

It will never go away but it will fade from the news cycle.

Some of us want better. It's not good enough to have it shrugged off.

Not relevant or accurate. More 'nothing to see here'.

Hubertj

FrancieBrady wrote: »

More grist to the 'only mistake he made was to get caught' mill.

you're not implying some TDs are squeaky clean?

Cute Hoor

Gatling wrote: »

Leo hasn't done anything that every TD , senator or councillor from every party has already done before them

Are you saying that every TD , senator and councillor from every party has handed over document(s) marked Confidential/not for circulation to their buddies, seriously

WicklaWolf

Listened to the Irish Times podcast on this, and the three journalists on it agreed that leaks happen in Irish politics and are essential for the public to get access to information.



They acknowledged the leak in this cases was of a different nature, but ultimately they were sweeping the leak under the carpet.



The issue with leaking to journalists is not all the politicians are leaking to all journalists in an equal quantity. Relationships are built based on this access to information. Journalists are only human, and relying on politicians leaking info will affect their decisions whether they will admit this or not.



We need a system where information is not circulated through secret journalist/politician relationships.

ooter

I'll be disappointed if somebody hasn't done a job on this video before next Tuesday.
https://youtu.be/DykVJl6wr_4

FrancieBrady

WicklaWolf wrote: »

Listened to the Irish Times podcast on this, and the three journalists on it agreed that leaks happen in Irish politics and are essential for the public to get access to information.



They acknowledged the leak in this cases was of a different nature, but ultimately they were sweeping the leak under the carpet.



The issue with leaking to journalists is not all the politicians are leaking to all journalists in an equal quantity. Relationships are built based on this access to information. Journalists are only human, and relying on politicians leaking info will affect their decisions whether they will admit this or not.



We need a system where information is not circulated through secret journalist/politician relationships.

It also wasn't a 'leak to a journalist'.

It was the handing over of a document protected by the Official Secrets Act to a vested interest.

James Brown

WicklaWolf wrote: »

Listened to the Irish Times podcast on this, and the three journalists on it agreed that leaks happen in Irish politics and are essential for the public to get access to information.



They acknowledged the leak in this cases was of a different nature, but ultimately they were sweeping the leak under the carpet.



The issue with leaking to journalists is not all the politicians are leaking to all journalists in an equal quantity. Relationships are built based on this access to information. Journalists are only human, and relying on politicians leaking info will affect their decisions whether they will admit this or not.



We need a system where information is not circulated through secret journalist/politician relationships.

We do have one. Leo broke with that protocol. Harris didn't, by all accounts.
The issue isn't how FG or some jurnos, (who live off leaks) see it, it's the fact that it happened and nobody is being sanctioned or held to account.

Still don't forgive the Times for sweeping housing and homelessness under the carpet in the 2020 election run up. A solid done for future leaks and cementing relationships?

blanch152

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Do SF always not have confidence in the government anyway!!????

McMurphy wrote: »

Leo isn't the government, I know a few of you lads think he is FG, but similarly, FG aren't the govt either.

Do you have confidence in him Jingle?
What do you think should happen him if more evidence emerges of him leaking information?
Was it yourself thought Maria Bailey was a plant to bring fg into disrepute?

Mc is right, Leo isn't the government, FG isn't the government.

However, this is the Sinn Fein playbook we are dealing with here.............. forget about the policy issues.................... focus on the person as in the opponent............................ find some spurious reason to attack them............................... you see it elsewhere............... Sinn Fein and their supporters talk about LeoTheLeak, Trump and his supporters talk about Sleepy Joe.

The thing is, while completely despicable as a political tactic, it works. If you don't succeed in getting your political opponent (and it is a personal thing to "get" them), you try and inflict damage. The merits of the accusation don't matter, if you can fling false accusations of lawbreaking, all the better. For every false accusation of stealing votes in Arizona, you can make an accusation of breaching the Official Secrets Act. For every frivilous court case, you can get a no-mark making a complaint to the gardai. If necessary, you can get ideologically driven mainstream media to back you up, for Fox News read Village Magazine and An Phoblacht, helping fuel the hate messages on Twitter and other social media.

intellectual dosser

We dismiss these motions casually but SF are bound to win one some time.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

We do have one. Leo broke with that protocol. Harris didn't, by all accounts.
The issue isn't how FG or some jurnos, (who live off leaks) see it, it's the fact that it happened and nobody is being sanctioned or held to account.

Still don't forgive the Times for sweeping housing and homelessness under the carpet in the 2020 election run up. A solid done for future leaks and cementing relationships?

What protocol?

Are you inventing a protocol again, not for the first time?

WicklaWolf

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It also wasn't a 'leak to a journalist'.

It was the handing over of a document protected by the Official Secrets Act to a vested interest.

Yes they did agree this was more serious, but in the same breath brought up how leaks to journalists are essential for the public to get access to information.



I think there must be a better way.



Leo is the media darling and known for providing information to the press. He has good relationships with journalists based on this. I think this colours

the media's reading of the severity of his "error of judgment".

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

What protocol?

Are you inventing a protocol again, not for the first time?

In with the made up false claims based on your willful 'misunderstanding'. It's tiresome and dishonest. And 'again'? More claims with zero back up.

Protocol:

- the accepted or established code of procedure or behavior in any group, organization, or situation.

Leo leaked confidential documentation to a pal.

Clear enough for you?

ohnonotgmail

WicklaWolf wrote: »

Yes they did agree this was more serious, but in the same breath brought up how leaks to journalists are essential for the public to get access to information.



I think there must be a better way.



Leo is the media darling and known for providing information to the press. He has good relationships with journalists based on this. I think this colours

the media's reading of the severity of his "error of judgment".

this wasn't a leak to a journalist so i'm not sure how that is relevant?

WicklaWolf

blanch152 wrote: »

What protocol?

Are you inventing a protocol again, not for the first time?

There should be a clear protocol on what information can and cannot be leaked.



Everyone seems to accept Leo made an error of judgment and did the wrong thing, but how is this prevented into the future?



Phil Hogan resigned for leaking budget information in the 90s - the same standard is not applied today obviously. Why has this changed happened? Who made this decision?


Both the public, civil servants and elected officials need clarity on these matters.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Mc is right, Leo isn't the government, FG isn't the government.

However, this is the Sinn Fein playbook we are dealing with here.............. forget about the policy issues.................... focus on the person as in the opponent............................ find some spurious reason to attack them............................... you see it elsewhere............... Sinn Fein and their supporters talk about LeoTheLeak, Trump and his supporters talk about Sleepy Joe.

The thing is, while completely despicable as a political tactic, it works. If you don't succeed in getting your political opponent (and it is a personal thing to "get" them), you try and inflict damage. The merits of the accusation don't matter, if you can fling false accusations of lawbreaking, all the better. For every false accusation of stealing votes in Arizona, you can make an accusation of breaching the Official Secrets Act. For every frivilous court case, you can get a no-mark making a complaint to the gardai. If necessary, you can get ideologically driven mainstream media to back you up, for Fox News read Village Magazine and An Phoblacht, helping fuel the hate messages on Twitter and other social media.

To quote Newman and Biddel's 'History Today', "that's you that is".
That's all you do. Attack the 'no mark TD', attack the publication, attack the journalist, attack the poster. All the while making unsubstantiated false claims.
Who do you think you are codding?

WicklaWolf

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

this wasn't a leak to a journalist so i'm not sure how that is relevant?

I understand that.



The journalists brought it up in the podcast in way that made Leo's leak seem like less of a transgression.


I think the media are underestimating the severity of Leo's "error of judgment".



Link to podcast

smurgen

If the information was publically available why didn't Leo Varadkar direct his friend to the publically available information?No one has been able to answer this yet.

SouthWesterly

It will show the voting public who of their elected representatives have no integrity as they vote against the motion and say the provision of confidential information to someone not authorised to have it is OK.

timmyntc

WicklaWolf wrote: »

I understand that.



The journalists brought it up in the podcast in way that made Leo's leak seem like less of a transgression.


I think the media are underestimating the severity of Leo's "error of judgment".



Link to podcast

No doubt the media are fonder of those in the Dáíl who they have "working relationships" with. Could Varadkar's treatment in the media be anything to do with leaking information to journalists?

WicklaWolf

SouthWesterly wrote: »

It will show the voting public who of their elected representatives have no integrity as they vote against the motion and say the provision of confidential information to someone not authorised to have it is OK.

This is it.



In 1995 Phil Hogan for resigned for leaking budgetary information to the press.


Leo's leak is actually much more serious (a contract leaked to a friend and head of rival organisation), yet it is not a resigning offence in 2020.



Why is the provision of confidential information in this manner not a resigning offence anymore - when did the goalposts shift?

WicklaWolf

timmyntc wrote: »

No doubt the media are fonder of those in the Dáíl who they have "working relationships" with. Could Varadkar's treatment in the media be anything to do with leaking information to journalists?

This is my concern. "Working relationships" between politicians and journalists, will affect how journalists conduct their work. They're only human and I don't blame them - Politicians give them access to important information that will get them clicks/sell papers.



But this system is flawed. The public needs real transparency, which is not based on covert, quid quo pro relationships between journalists and politicians.